Re: GoPro Protune
 

Hey Jason, I got a Suzuki Vstrom 1000 cc twin and no matter where I put the GoPro the dreaded CMOS jello is there from vibration just like on your Harley there.

I have mounted the camera on the car too many times but the quality out was horrible, sky was blocky and compression artifacts all over the place. should be much better now. I'll do a car test today with the new Protune installed.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Yeah, I get the jello and the whole thing – when I can keep the rpm’s in the higher range it seems to smooth out the vibrations. It’s the nature of the Dyna rubber mount engine with no counter balancers.

My Colorado videos came out pretty decent actually. I can’t do the helmet mount thing and I don’t know how those guys know when it is recording or not anyway without the remote.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Everyone: I really appreciate the videos with the new Protune settings, but what I have seen so far is horrifying: jello and incredible noise (relative to non-Protune in the latter case). I do see the muted color scheme, which I suppose is desirable for those who love to post-process.

Is the Go Pro HD2, with fix or not, just hopeless in terms of video quality compared to even an average camcorder? Does the high bitrate really at least reduce blotchiness and improve resolution compared to the Sony Action Cam, which before Protune seemed to have better quality?

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Still from video without and with ProTune. Click to see full size.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

How's the saying go...
Good light into cheap electronics...light coming out looks, well, cheap.

Put another way, perhaps what we have here is Protune trying to put lipstick on a pig?

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Mark, put the Sony down for a while and go watch some of the hundreds of thousands of quality GoPro videos on YouTube. You will be amazed. Yes there is jello in poorly handled GoPro videos, especially the ones mounted on motorbikes with no thought gone into eliminating camera vibration.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Hey Ian

Nice comparison.

Since you are also in PAL what record time do you get at 1080 25T ?? I get 1hr 23mins on a 32 GB card but all the USA guys get double that time using 1080 30T??

A 16GB card gives me only 41 minutes?

Chris

Re: GoPro Protune
 

I’m sorry I posted them – I should have known it wouldn’t be appreciated here to just try to share the first videos taken with the new Protune for what they were. Just what might be an ‘average user’s’ experience I suppose. If somebody might get an idea of the color etc. then great.

FYI, the GoPro’s are used by a lot of Harley riders – some with better results than others, but generally you will find from that community that there is a real disgust with there not really being any remedy for the vibrations and jello. I may have even asked here and been rebuffed for any remedy. Then you’ve got us out there just doing the best that we can do – in my case with a RAM Mount system mounting it rigidly. I have, in fact, attempted using materials to dampen the vibration, but to no avail. This is the best setup that I have come up with so far and it serves my purpose for my use of it.

I know you guys are mostly pro’s and I appreciate picking up your tips and info, but this is an open forum for the most part from what I gather. You don’t necessarily have to be a professional to participate and you might expect that we’re not all out here spending hundreds, thousands of dollars on the most sophisticated mounting systems money can buy, etc.

If somebody wants to develop a reasonably priced mounting system and point me in that direction I would be interested and I think I may have made these very comments previously.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

"Mark, put the Sony down for a while and go watch some of the hundreds of thousands of quality GoPro videos on YouTube. You will be amazed. Yes there is jello in poorly handled GoPro videos, especially the ones mounted on motorbikes with no thought gone into eliminating camera vibration."

Ian: I am not so happy with the Sony Action Cam either - no need to get defensive (look at my posts in that thread and you will see me even more critical of some of the awful videos peope have posted there). Point me to a good HD Pro 2 video on Vimeo I can download. Even better, point to me a *good* Protune HD Pro video I can download.

I have plenty of experience with cameras and camcorders; I know what good videos look like but there is really no workable search algorithm for "good quality", so help me, and everyone else out. Where are these great HD Pro Protune videos? Just one or two will do.

There are now *pocketable*, waterproof camcorders that give very good HD performance; they can be mounted on cars and motorcycles with suction cups too. I am trying to figure out just what quality you get from a newly-improved or even non-improved HD Pro without having to actually buy the thing if that is possible. The videos from this thread are not helping if the claim is they are operator-flawed. That excuse can only go so far.

Jason: I learned from your video - ignoring the jello, it was a good demonstration of the muted colors (ok) and smooth video when you were moving.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

What if you don't like the upgrade once upgrading? Can the new stuff ( the upgrade) be turned on and off?

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Yes of course, Settings/More/Protune/On/OFF.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Hi Renton

Yep! Just set ProTune on the Menu to "Off" and you are back to normal!! Have you upgraded yet???

When you do tell me what capacity your SDHC cards have on them please ???

Chris

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Jason i wasn't referring to your videos, (actually i haven;t watched them yet but i will) we get thousands posted on the GoproUser forum which feature motorcycles and they generally are the ones with the most jello issues. BTW we have tons of motor cycle users posing their mounts, mods and experiences so there is a wealth of info there to help you with that. GoProUser.freeforums.org • Index page

Mark, ProTune was only released officially less than 12 hrs ago, not a lot of time for people to do testing and post results. I posted the indoor comparison video above (GoPro Hero2 Protune Test) because it shows what happens with ProTune in poor light because ProTune actual is ALL camera processing turned OFF, including noise reduction, contrast, sharpening etc. It's quite a different result outdoors though.

There are a lot of reasons why people don't use pocket-able HD cameras as Wearable/Mountable Outdoor POV cameras, too many to list here, try some and you will find out the limitations.

On the Sony, I'm disappointed because it has the ideal form factor i've always wanted Gopro to have, but they don't yet understand the POV consumer market so they have some improvements to make, good first try though and i'm sure they will listen to feedback.

BTW, i''m ADMIN and founder of the above mentioned User Forum. We have 50k+ members and i've see every post that has come thru there since 2008, so i've seen lot's of POV footage. Even though it is a GOPro User forum we have a whole section devoted to OTHER POV cams including he Sony.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Amateur ProTune video shot by the guys wife. Straight out of the camera no CC. Watch in 720p or 1080 at youtube. Would colour correct really well. Link to you tube is below.


Vito cayo gopro hero2 protune test - YouTube

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Am I missing something regarding the purported 35Mbps data rate? Can't see anything in the menu regarding that, unless it's supposedly 35Mbps when using ProTune? My first test with ProTune on in a moderately lit room had more noise then video from my cell phone, was hoping for more, kinda hoping I'm just missing something here.

- Ray

Re: GoPro Protune
 

The "vito cayo" video looks much better, and not too bad. And I like the Protune color, even straight out of the camera, compared with the non Protune alternative. But the quality is still far below cheap regular camcorders, or even waterproof pocketable types.

For just mounting with suction cups on vehicles, I see no advantage whatsoever of a Go Pro or Sony Action Cam over say the Samsung WX300 - which is almost as small as either camera in their "shells" and is shockproof and waterproof (not same depth) without any extra case. And its video is substantially better (color, sharpness, motion artifacts), and it costs less.

For mounting on heads, helmets or surfboards or diving down to 150 ft, maybe you need a GoPro outfit. But the above vehicle or boat videos, all of them, could have been taken with better quality by, for example, that Samsung model. So if typical use is mounting on vehicles, I see a lot of hype and poor perfromance here.

Slow motion and time-lapse tricks are nice features of the GoPro and Action Cam that regular cameras do not have, of course.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Ray, Protune is a user selectable mode in settings/more/ Protune/on/off.

When selected your LCD will show the letter T after the mode selection and recording 35mbps.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Thanks Ian, that was one of my guesses. I guess I was just hoping that the difference would be a bit more substantial than what I'm currently seeing and hoping that there was a setting I might have missed that would get it there.

- Ray

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Samsung WX300, gee that must a popular camera google knows nothing about it.

You forgot wide angle, nearly every POV camera has at least 110 - 170 diagonal FOV and is most of the reason why POV footage is watchable, without it it wouldn't be a shaky mess. As you have seen with the Sony image, in-camera stabilization is as good as useless in a PoV cams in most cases, it may improve over time when better technology is available at the price point. Not denying some of the pocket able cameras have better image Q, but they are not suitable for POV cameras for 95% of users.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Ray> Thanks Ian, that was one of my guesses. I guess I was just hoping that the difference would be a bit more substantial than what I'm currently seeing and hoping that there was a setting I might have missed that would get it there.

- Ray

Tip>
Try it again in the morning, in the correct lighting conditions it was designed to work in. Would you test drive your new sports car on the neighbours paddock? :-)

Re: GoPro Protune
 

lol, will do, already grateful for the 24p, been waiting on them to do that for awhile now. Actually held off on buying one until the announcement. Just couldn't help wishing with the ProTune/35Mbps there would be a little more latitude in mid/low light and shadows but at least I got one thing on the checklist =)

- Ray

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Actually it has more latitude with ProTune but yeah it's never gunna be good in poor light, no camera really is, that's the key hey, horses for courses.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Sorry Samsung w300. Good point about the fov. But I am going to try a moving vehicle video with different cameras to see.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Mate it's hello jello on that camera just like your camera phone, and the auto focus is too slow and AF is useless on a POV cam. One little knock and that baby is history. Mark, I've played with all the non POV stuff and used them for POV without success, gave up on that path, just not suitable nor are the Panasonic, Canon, Olympus and Fuji so called "Rugged "cameras. The one Good thing was the CCD sensor based ones, no jello, but the flare and vertical streaking from the sun was an image killer.

The first company that comes up with small form factor or even a separate head and recorder with global shutter gets my money. POV VIO 1 had one but too big and not HD. Something around $600-800 and i would be all over a dozen of them. It will happen.

Anything mounted to a car will be smooth if it's done right. Inside, i use a fabric bag of rice to rest the camera on. Last video is not mine. Yes it's a GoPro on an F1 car

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Here is what it looks like on the car. Not bad considering all the different exposures of light it has to adjust too. Jelly seems to be less too...Well done :-)

Raw files dumped straight into EDIUS, added some adjustments and rendered out this 1920/1080 @12mbps MPEG4 clip.

GoPro Hero 2 ProTune Car Test - YouTube

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Thanks quite impressive Paul.

What mode was that shot at???

Also I didn't get an answer from Ian so at 1080 25T what record time you you get with either a 16GB or 32GB card??? The USA cams seem to get double what I get!! On 32GB I get 1hr23mins and 41mins on a 16GB ... are yours much the same? In the USA at 1080 30T they are reporting times like 2nrs 58mins!!

Chris

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Hi Chris,

I get 42 mins with an empty 16gb card ready to shoot at 1080 25T, 58 mins for 720 60T. Not good is it ?

With Protune on, the time elapsed counter at the top of the LCD screen is not shown during recording only on playback - which is also a pity.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

This is my play on Protunes....
David at Cineform has over the years brought the Cineform platform up from just an intermediary video editing solution to a product that still does the intermediary function but he also over the years added additional capability for color grading.... so when Canon was the big buz word in video many folks attempted to create flatter profiles in an attempt at creating RAW type files from those cameras. that could take color grading correctly... thus the profile tune was added to the GoPro camera..
David pushed the Pro version of Cineform with the ability for color grading and then when GoPro bought out Cineform David became interested in that camera and how to better integrate the output of the camera to his color grading efforts in the Pro Version of Cineform products... so he set out to flatten the output of the camera and to let his cineform platform take over the post production color grades..... a very good example
of this is in this video on how to properly grade a shot....( this is Canon footage, but works exactly the same for the GoPro Protune)
If you take the GoPro Protune footage and apply the work flow in that video you will get fantastic results from the Protune " RAW " type of footage. And that was what David had in mind when you put the ProTune GoPro together with the Pro Versions of Cineform... and it works perfectly...

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Well I just updated my two GoPos and it says 58 min for 720 60T and 1hr 28min for 1080 30T on a 16GB card. Using 720p60 I was getting about 2 hours using around 11-12 GB before so that seems about what it should be.
Have you guys in pal land tried recording to see what you really get on a full card ?

Gordon

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Does one have to pass the ProTune footage through Cineform software or can you put the ProTune footage directly in an NLE?

Re: GoPro Protune
 

You can put the Protune footage native in the NLE, there are advantages to convert to cineform AVI but you don't have to use cineform at all if you don't want it in your work flow...

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Thanks for the quick response!

Re: GoPro Protune
 

I upgraded and saw that very long delay, too. I was hoping to use it as a wireless viewfinder but that's not possible.

ProTune makes the image a whole lot better, tho, so the upgrade is worth it. And while I haven't tested it yet, the ability to configure and possibly operate the GoPro through an iPhone looks like a very nice tool.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Another raw file; yeah, it’s not perfection – this one has some pumpkins and flowers from Whole Foods in it that sort of show some good color examples with the Protune before any post processing.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Just wondering if since the update anyone else has tried bringing the raw footage straight to their NLE without converting? Before the update I had no issues, files played back great in VLC Media Player and in Sony Vegas, after the update shooting 24p with ProTune enabled raw files are pretty much un-viewable in both. After converting I have no issues but obviously would prefer not to have to take that extra step.

- Ray

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Just a note about Protune -

Protune is simply a mode in the camera that bypasses all of the in-camera settings that are added to the file to make it look pleasing to the 'consumer' out of the box. The other big addition it gives is the high bit-rate. This you'll only see an advantage in complex scenes or high motion. No it won't make a static shot look better necessarily (unless you're keen to less sharpening), it also won't do anything to rolling shutter - that's a product of the CMOS frame speed and vibration.

Why is it noisier? In-camera noise reduction is turned off, also the shadows are brought up to give more detail incase the user wants it..in standard color curves in the camera, lows are crushed to black so you never see the noise.

All that said, for the pro trying to utilize the camera in a PRO workflow, it will do heaps in matching to the other cameras being used.

Biggest uses I've seen are mountain bike, snow, and surf - all of which are complex scenes with high motion, high highlights, and dark low lights.

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Raymond, I have tried Protune footage in Vegas 12 and in VLC and it has been fine. Can your editing machine deal with other demanding formats without transcoding?

Vegas 12 does of course now have the facility to create proxies so that could be the way forward for you.

I'm still actually editing in Vegas 11 rather than 12 as I have unresolved issues with how 12 deals with some pan and crop presets I fcreated for use with still image slideshows - which I do a lot.

Pete

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Yea Pete, I don't have any problems with any straight out of the camera footage from Sony F3, any of the Canon DSLR's, or 4k raw Red files without the need for proxies. Not sure what it could be about my system that it isn't liking about the new format, as I said it's not just in Vegas but VLC as well which has no problem with pre-firmware update GoPro footage at all.

- Ray

Re: GoPro Protune
 

Thanks Mike

That's roughly the record time I get as well. I still am mystified that the guys in the USA seem to get 1hr 28mins on a 16GB card in 1080 30T mode (so that's with Protune on?) and in 1080 25T here in PAL land we only get 41 or 42 minutes

Anyone else with a camera in PAL getting a longer record time like the USA cameras??

Chris