dumb Tascam HD-P2 question.... at DVinfo.net

Dennis Stevens · January 5th, 2007, 12:59 PM

I think I know the answer but...

Is it possible to connect the JVC HD 100UA to a Tascam HD-P2 and get timcode from the camera and the Tascam in synch?

The Tascam seems to advertise it can do this, but I'm wondering if anyone has done it with this camera.

I read some other posts that syncing TC between camera and Tascam doesn't always work perfectly.

If it makes a diff, I use Adobe PP2, wondering if that NLE can read the time code on the audio files from the Tascam....

Tim Dashwood · January 5th, 2007, 02:11 PM

There are no dumb questions here.

You would need a JVC HD250 to slave LTC into the Tascam HD P2.

The other models don't have LTC TC out.

However, Convergent Design makes a box called the HD-Connect LE that can accept any HDV firewire signal and output LTC and AES. This would give you LTC from any of the JVC ProHD cameras.
The only problem is that you would have to figure out exactly what the frame delay for firewire output was, and then program the offset into the Tascam.

Mike Paterson · January 9th, 2007, 04:50 AM

I'm very happy there are no dumb questions here! I too would like to sync up my HD101 to a hard disk sound recording device. Are there any sound recorders that are more suitable than the Tascam? Ideally I'd like to sync up at the start of the shoot using Time-of-day timecode, and then have the camera and sound recorder running independently (ie not linked by a cable). Or would an old-fashioned handclap be the simplest?

Tim Dashwood · January 9th, 2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Paterson

I'm very happy there are no dumb questions here! I too would like to sync up my HD101 to a hard disk sound recording device. Are there any sound recorders that are more suitable than the Tascam? Ideally I'd like to sync up at the start of the shoot using Time-of-day timecode, and then have the camera and sound recorder running independently (ie not linked by a cable). Or would an old-fashioned handclap be the simplest?

Hi Mike,,

It is interesting you mention that, because it is almost exactly how I work with a sound recordist when shooting double-system.

On the last film I shot, the A-Cam Operator, B-Cam/EPK Op., and the sound recordist would sync the two HD100s and the TASCAM with FREE RUN TC at the top of the day with a simple "3-2-1 GO" method.
If we had a night shoot, we would not use 24-hour clock to avoid a reset to 00:00:00:00 at midnight. So a set call time of 9PM would be preset as 09:00:00:00.

This method obviously isn't frame accurate because it depends on the reflexes of three people, but we were dumb slating every single shot, and it still helps the assistant greatly to easily find the clap on the sound rolls.

The only caveat is that when shooting 24P you are forced to use NDF TC, so the cameras would progressively lose sync with the "time-of-day" clock in the sound recorder as the day progressed. We would tend to re-sync after lunch for this reason.

Dave Stern · January 9th, 2007, 10:25 AM

also, if your tascam is going to be near the camera and you have an analog output from your cam, you can run that into the tascam (BNC) and sync the tascam's clock rate to the camera, rather than using the tascam's clock. this is different than timecode, but will help prevent drift due to slight differences in clock rates between the devices (if any). more useful for long takes than short ones, and requires a wire from your cam to the tascam, but a nice feature.

Tim Dashwood · January 9th, 2007, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Stern

also, if your tascam is going to be near the camera and you have an analog output from your cam, you can run that into the tascam (BNC) and sync the tascam's clock rate to the camera, rather than using the tascam's clock. this is different than timecode, but will help prevent drift due to slight differences in clock rates between the devices (if any). more useful for long takes than short ones, and requires a wire from your cam to the tascam, but a nice feature.

I'm not sure that would work with HD?

Dave Stern · January 9th, 2007, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

I'm not sure that would work with HD?

not sure either. suppose it depends on the clock used for the composite signal out vs. what the cam uses for recording the video in the first place..no idea whether there's more than one clock involved...maybe someone will chime in as well.

Mike Paterson · January 10th, 2007, 03:36 AM

Tim - thanks. Yes, that is the 'fallback' technique I've been planning on testing - it's good to know that it worked for you. Did you get any feedback from the editor about drift with the Tascam? I do documentary work, and would sync the sound recorder at the start of the day (via the 3-2-1 method) and mark with handclap, but might not have the opportunity to add any clear sync markers such as handclaps possibly for a few hours. My concern is that any drift between the 2 timecodes over a period of say, 3 to 4 hours - the maximum period we'd be forced to go between sync markers - would make the syncing process in post a real pain. Do you know if the editor found there was a difference in the sync between the start and the end of the day?

Mike Paterson · January 10th, 2007, 03:44 AM

also, Dave - I did speak to a dealer about the BNC method and he said it would work, but it would be good to hear from anyone who has actually tried it. The downside for me of using BNC would be that the camera has to remain connected to the recorder.

Tim Dashwood · January 10th, 2007, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Paterson

Tim - thanks. Yes, that is the 'fallback' technique I've been planning on testing - it's good to know that it worked for you. Did you get any feedback from the editor about drift with the Tascam? I do documentary work, and would sync the sound recorder at the start of the day (via the 3-2-1 method) and mark with handclap, but might not have the opportunity to add any clear sync markers such as handclaps possibly for a few hours. My concern is that any drift between the 2 timecodes over a period of say, 3 to 4 hours - the maximum period we'd be forced to go between sync markers - would make the syncing process in post a real pain. Do you know if the editor found there was a difference in the sync between the start and the end of the day?

The TC will definitely drift out if you are using NDF on the camera and time-of-day on the sound recorder. If your recorder has a TC generator, then you will be able to also set it to NDF for accuracy.
You will be forced into NDF TC on the camera when shooting 24P.
If you shoot 30P you can use DF mode on the camera and in theory there should be zero drift for the whole day against TOD code.

Mike Paterson · January 10th, 2007, 08:10 AM

I'm in PAL-land and shoot 25p almost exclusively, so should be fine. It's good to know that drift shouldn't be a problem. Will try and get hold of a recorder in the next week or so and do some tests.

January 5th, 2007, 12:59 PM	#1
Dennis Stevens Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 425	dumb Tascam HD-P2 question.... I think I know the answer but... Is it possible to connect the JVC HD 100UA to a Tascam HD-P2 and get timcode from the camera and the Tascam in synch? The Tascam seems to advertise it can do this, but I'm wondering if anyone has done it with this camera. I read some other posts that syncing TC between camera and Tascam doesn't always work perfectly. If it makes a diff, I use Adobe PP2, wondering if that NLE can read the time code on the audio files from the Tascam....

January 5th, 2007, 02:11 PM	#2
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	There are no dumb questions here. You would need a JVC HD250 to slave LTC into the Tascam HD P2. The other models don't have LTC TC out. However, Convergent Design makes a box called the HD-Connect LE that can accept any HDV firewire signal and output LTC and AES. This would give you LTC from any of the JVC ProHD cameras. The only problem is that you would have to figure out exactly what the frame delay for firewire output was, and then program the offset into the Tascam. __________________ Tim Dashwood

January 9th, 2007, 04:50 AM	#3
Mike Paterson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 99	I'm very happy there are no dumb questions here! I too would like to sync up my HD101 to a hard disk sound recording device. Are there any sound recorders that are more suitable than the Tascam? Ideally I'd like to sync up at the start of the shoot using Time-of-day timecode, and then have the camera and sound recorder running independently (ie not linked by a cable). Or would an old-fashioned handclap be the simplest?

January 9th, 2007, 10:25 AM	#5
Dave Stern Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 391	also, if your tascam is going to be near the camera and you have an analog output from your cam, you can run that into the tascam (BNC) and sync the tascam's clock rate to the camera, rather than using the tascam's clock. this is different than timecode, but will help prevent drift due to slight differences in clock rates between the devices (if any). more useful for long takes than short ones, and requires a wire from your cam to the tascam, but a nice feature.

January 10th, 2007, 03:36 AM	#8
Mike Paterson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 99	Tim - thanks. Yes, that is the 'fallback' technique I've been planning on testing - it's good to know that it worked for you. Did you get any feedback from the editor about drift with the Tascam? I do documentary work, and would sync the sound recorder at the start of the day (via the 3-2-1 method) and mark with handclap, but might not have the opportunity to add any clear sync markers such as handclaps possibly for a few hours. My concern is that any drift between the 2 timecodes over a period of say, 3 to 4 hours - the maximum period we'd be forced to go between sync markers - would make the syncing process in post a real pain. Do you know if the editor found there was a difference in the sync between the start and the end of the day?

January 10th, 2007, 03:44 AM	#9
Mike Paterson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 99	also, Dave - I did speak to a dealer about the BNC method and he said it would work, but it would be good to hear from anyone who has actually tried it. The downside for me of using BNC would be that the camera has to remain connected to the recorder.

January 10th, 2007, 08:10 AM	#11
Mike Paterson Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 99	I'm in PAL-land and shoot 25p almost exclusively, so should be fine. It's good to know that drift shouldn't be a problem. Will try and get hold of a recorder in the next week or so and do some tests.