What Deck to compliment the HD100?
 

I am about to take the plunge of buying the HD100 and would like to buy a deck so that I can capture from it and output back onto tape for broadcast.

Can I get suggestions as to which one I should buy?

I will be using a Mac G5 & FCP to edit and will probably buy a Kona or Blackmagic.

I look forward to your help with this - many thanks
Ray

There's only one deck for 24P capture, and that's the JVC BR50.

For output, it's more complicated. The JVC HDV deck will do DV, DVCAM or HDV. The trick is that HDV really isn't a broadcast format. Even Lightning Dubbs here in Los Angeles can't take a JVC HDV 24p tape and make a DVCPRO HD or HDCAM.

I personally have built a system where I can rent an HD deck and output that way. The other method, which is only good for certain markets is the offline @home, online elsewhere scenario. A cottage industry has sprung up in Los Angeles for people offlining FCP projects at home, then take your firewire drive in and output on somebody else's rig.

CU-VH1 "Spooler"
 

Remember that little deck (CU-VH1)? I own and use it successfully for all my projects. That is an inexpensive "spooler" that can be used to complement the HD100. You cannot see in it's LCD the 24P image, but you can use it to capture and write back 24P, 30P or 60i. That way you do not put extra hours of use on your camera drums...

Luis

For broadcast SD.. DVcam? BetaSP? DVCPro50?
For broadcast HD.. HDcam?

you can use any sony hdv camera or it's deck to playback the JVC's 720p footage. The only mode they won't play back is 24p unfortunately. But if your looking for Bang for your buck, the sony deck plays back both 1080i and 720p. The jvc only plays back 720p and mini dv. THe sony will also playback and record dvcam, and hdv in ntsc and pal.

Good luck with your purchase.

Sony decks won't allow you to digitize footage that was shot on HDV tapes. You can only view the footage on a monitor, Sony decks won't transport JVC HDV footage across the firewire.

Thanks guys for your responses. Stephen, initially I would be looking to output to DVCAM for broadcast work but then upgrade to HD when the networks offer this here in the UK.

So, just to clarify, if I buy the BR50 can I:

• capture footage from the HD100 onto FCP?
• capture footage recorded from the Sony FX1?
• output the completed project on DVCAM?
• upgrade to export HD for broadcast?

One last thing…If I purchase the BR50 what would the benefit of buying the Kona LH?

many thanks
Ray

you won't be able to export to dvcam via the jvc deck, and yes you can in fact import all your footage(both 720p and 1080i, with the exception of 24p) throught the sony decks. I do it everyday. Basically all plug and play.

Really, what's the point of that? The Sony product material doesn't state that at all! If it does it's really hidden. The blurb stating 720p30 playback is as follows: "HDV 720/30p playback (no 720p recording)" this does not say analog only. Website: http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...p=142&id=78440

Do you know this from experience? I was wondering why the Sony deck I just got Friday would only play the JVC tapes on the analog outputs. Argh. I might just return it.

Yes, all JVC formats.
No
Not Sony's DVCAM, but DV, including miniDV and large format DV.
You will be able to export HDV 720P back to the deck, but it is up to each individual broadcaster if they will accept HDV.

Uncompressed 720P60 or 720P50 capture via YRB analog outs on deck. Unfortunately the deck does not have YRB inputs, only Y/C (S-Video) and composite.

I use a sony hc1 to playback and for fcp to capture footage I gather with the hd100. It works fine for both the 720p and 1080i. I've also used the HVR-M10U VTR first hand to capture 720p hdv footage gathered from the hd100 as a solution.The jvc deck is fine if you want to lay back in hdv or standard dv. I recommend that you try both a jvc and sony deck out and see for yourself. But as I said before-if you want bang for your buck adn cross compatability. sony is cornering this aspect of the hdv market. I will reiterate once again though, that sony cannot playback or layback or capture, 24p footage.

I keep hearing talk of a deck that is going to support both 720p and 1080i AND Canon's frame mode...basically everything. Several people have dropped hints here and I talked to a sales person recently who said something is coming soon...before NAB.

Anyone have any more info? I need a deck. I'd like to stop using the H1 as a deck!

Kevin

Wait, you capture 720p30 on the HC1 into finalcut?

Whoa, for the price of a BR-HD50U, i can get 2 Sony cmos cams that I can abuse as capture decks?

This sounds too good to be true. Will it capture 480p60 and the 576p50 too?

you bet. it works like a charm. and I also use the cam as a secondary camera when I shoot with the z1.

Okay, is there a deck I can use that can input from the HD100 that would allow me to output to DVC Pro (25 & 50)?

I am quoting this off a tech spec sheet from an itv production dept.

And what format would you suggest I shoot, capture and edit to get the best results for broadcast?

Last question - If I install the Kona LH will this allow me to capture, and 'layback' from the HD100, and in what fromats?

many thanks
Ray

I would be interested how this is accomplished. I just got a HVRM10U and it WILL NOT pass 720p30 video over the FireWire. The audio comes through though.

The av passes fine via firewire. Even the 720p/30 footage. I don't know exactly how it's accomplished. But I'm gald that some of us are able to reap the benefits of it. All I can say is check your settings. in your editing suite. I use FCP. May have something to do with it. Also works great with imovie.

I am reposting this because I really need to decide on the products I need and get them purchased before the end of the month.

"Okay, is there a deck I can use that can input from the HD100 that would allow me to output to DVC Pro (25 & 50)?

I am quoting this off a tech spec sheet from an itv production dept.

And what format would you suggest I shoot, capture and edit to get the best results for broadcast?

Last question - If I install the Kona LH will this allow me to capture, and 'layback' from the HD100, and in what fromats?"

many thanks
Ray

Not sure I'm following what you're saying.

Are you saying you want to shoot on the HD100, and have a deck that can create a DVCPRO25 or DVCPRO50 tape from that footage?

If so, first recognize that the HD100 is primarily an HD camera, and DVCPRO25 and DVCPRO50 are of course standard-def formats.

You could shoot in DV on the HD100 and you should be able to play those tapes on a DVCPRO deck (with an adapter) but that doesn't get you to DVCPRO25 or DVCPRO50.

I think you could connect the HD100 via its component outputs, to the component inputs of a DVCPRO50 deck; that should allow you to convert HD100 footage to DV50. I don't recall offhand if the HD100 allows downconverting on its component output jacks or not; if the HD100 allows you to output an SD signal even from HD footage then this would work. But now that I think about it, I'm not sure that the camera can do that...

Hi Barry,

Thanks for your response. I suppose the problem here is my lack of knowledge!

Basically, what I want to do is shoot with the HD100 - Capture with FCP (either through firewire or using the Kona LH - I'm not sure if I need the Kona) - Edit in FCP - and put the finished product back out onto either DVCAM, DVC PRO, Betacam SX, Betacam SP or Digital Betacam.

Simple eh…!?

So all I want is a deck to be able to deliver one of these, or does the HD101 accept any of these format back?

I would appreciate any help.

Ray

It does. Only on playback though, not live.

There's too many questions I have after reading yours...you don't specify SD broadcast or HD broadcast. I'll answer what I think you mean, I guess.

#1-There's only 2 decks that read 24pHDV from the JVC. That's the BR50 and the CU-VH1. Both only allow either DVCAM or DV as an alternate format. So you can get the BR50 and layback to DVCAM 25. Or HDV. That's it.

#2-For SD broadcast (what I have to assume you mean)? Shooting HDV and downconverting later, depending on how you downconvert, often yields results better than shooting DV25 in the first place. If I shoot/capture HDV, and convert media to DV50 or 10bit uncompressed via Apple's Compressor, I get incredible results, but it takes time and extra work.

I myself, if I had a Kona/Blackmagic card with analog inputs, would experiment with shooting HDV, then capturing SD via the deck/camera's (downconverted) analog outputs to DV50. In theory this should give you a very nice DV50.

#3-The Kona LH allows for SDI/HD-SDI in and out (for going to Digibeta, HDCAM, D5, or DVCPRO HD). It also has analog component in and out. It can handle many different codecs. If you're shopping for a card, this one is VERY flexible. The way you word your question though makes it hard to answer...a card doesn't work in formats, it just allows certain connections and from there you decide which formats work best with a given connection type. Examples:

1-Analog component (which can be either HD or SD) is good for going to/from almost ANY format, but is a tiny bit less clean than digital. You'd use it to go to/from BetacamSP in almost every case, or use analog component HD as a universal common ground to go between disparate HD formats/decks.

2-HDSDI/SDI is an uncompressed digital connection, in both HD (HD-SDI) or SD (SDI). Often you use it with more modern decks like a Digibeta (using regular SDI) or HDCAM (using HD-SDI). It's nice because sometimes it will carry your audio and timecode also (depending on the card or deck).
I don't get to use it as much as I'd like!

OK -- you want to shoot HDV, capture it, and edit it as HD.

Then you want to export the HD timeline as SD using the DVCPRO25 and DVCPRO50 codecs. Now you want to write this to DVCPRO25 and DVCPRO50 tape. You'll need a second deck. It will need to be from Panasonic and it can be a FireWire deck. You can rent this deck.

Or you could render the timeline out to elementary streams (DVCPro50) on a firewire or USB2 PC formatted external drive and deliver that way.

This is interesting. I have the most recent version of FCP5 and it would not input the HD-100 footage over the FireWire when played back thru the Sony HDV deck. As soon as I connected the HD-100 camera itself, I was able to capture without a problem.

I have been thru the Sony manual and can find nothing to help me (that might be my fault although). As an experiment I ran the Sony deck's FireWire thru a Canopus A/D converter and the same thing happened. The Sony deck plays back SD DVCam perfectly (I don't have any Sony HDV video at the moment) but goes black with the JVC 30p HDV. The analog outputs and the LCD do play the video however.

Is there a setting I might be missing?

Thanks for your help.

The Sony deck is not compatible with the JVC material. The only area both agree is DVCAM, but no HDV compatibility is available as far as I know.

Luis

try bringing the footage in through imovie.

Depending on which version of imovie you have you may need to trash it's prefs and then see if bringing in the footage through fcp will work. I assue you though that the 720p30 footage can be imported through a sony deck.

Think about it-why would you be able to playback the footage in the camera but not import it. That would not make much sense.

I'll take a look at my settings when I'm back in my studio and will let you know if there are any revelations.

As I may have mentioned I own both the hd100, a z1 and I use the hc1 as my import/playback deck for both.

Doesn't make any sense though. The Sony products do not output 720p HDV over the firewire. None of 'em do. Not the cameras, not the decks. Sony HDV products cannot input or output JVC HDV via firewire.

Are you perhaps capturing analog through a Kona or something?

Here's the quote from the Sony HC1 manual, page 101:
Your camcorder can play back pictures recorded in the HDV 720/30p format, but cannout output it from the HDV/DV Interface (i.LINK) jack.

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your reply - can you let me know what the Panasonic deck is please?

And if I capture directly from the camera then I would possibly only need the one deck?

many thanks
Ray

Do a simple Google search... or go to B&H Photo & Video website..
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont....x=0&image.y=0

This should be in the M10 manual although I couldn't find it. I did find some very bad mistakes regarding other operations. Fortunately my dealer will take the deck back and I will replace it with the JVC deck. I'll be getting an HC1 just to have a Sony HDV compatible something around.

I ma verry sure that you are talking about the compatibility between Sd footage from JVC HD100 and sony HC1, and not between HD footage. It's impossible.

I just returned the HVR-M10U to the dealer and exchanged it for a JVC BR-HD50. My dealer was actually happy to get the deck back as the Sony rep just called him this morning to announce that the M10 is being discontinued and no new model is being announced.

The JVC deck is more substantial unit anyway (and I don't mean the size) despite the lack of the LCD screen.

You mean "Today no model is being announced." :-) I have a feeling we'll be hearing things very soon about a new deck. Seems to have been a lot of "quiet talk" lately...

KW

The timing is strange. Sony puts a rebate on the deck and then discontinues it soon after. If it was a ploy to empty the inventory it makes sense except everyone who buys the deck now is unlikely to purchase the new model. Anyway they need to put out an HDV deck with a more substantial loading mechanism. The mechanism was out of a $300 camcorder.

Which deck?
 

There was a protype HDV deck at IBC that had a full size cassette. I think that it might have had SDI ports on it as well, though not sure on that one. I couldn't get my hands on the deck to double check the ports. It did use a full size cassette though.

Wonder if they might come out with a camera that shoots a full size cassette (like the DSR250 did in DVCAM).

Don't mean to take this discussion offtopic.

Dan Weber

Nate... are you sure that Lighting dubs can't do the uprez to HDCAM... the only reason I'm asking is that we're doing some second unit with the camera... and the editor told me on Friday that they were taking to Lighting... so I'll have to find this out for sure...

Back when I asked about it, they only had the Sony HDV deck in the edit bay setup, not the duplication chains. And I specifically asked at the time if they had the JVC deck...which they did not.

I imagine by now some things have changed with that, but I wouldn't just assume they have the JVC deck. All the people I've seen bumping HDV up to DVCPRO HD or HDCAM have been having to rent decks and do it themselves.

I'll have to call them tomorrow and find out... working on a feature but I only have to get the film in the can... not doing anything with post... except trying to make the workflow better for the editor...

But the way I was thinking was that the editor was going to fire-wire out of the camera and into a deck...

But like I said I only heard that Lighting could do it...

Nate... I might send you an email...

Thanks Gary

Hvr-m10u
 

Hello i have a M10U deck got with my FX1.
No longer have the FX1 got a hd110u, i just tried to play 720p 30,
A messg. came up change tape format. if you could explain how this work it would be great.
Save me having to buy the JVC hd50 deck
thank you
Joe

FCP Playback of HD Timeline to BR50 Deck
 

Hi Barry,

Do you have a solution for Final Cut Studio 2 when playing back HD (720p - 30fps) out to firewire to the BR50 Deck, then display in HD monitor from the deck? I've updated the deck with software/firmware 109. I'm able to capture HD and print to video - from and through the deck but the setup in FCS2 is grayed-out in the HD 720p 30fps playback setup menu.

I'm editing on a Power Mac G5, dual 2.7 processors, 8 GB ram, (this is a non-intel chip sys).

Thanks, Sam Miller