Would you buy one again?
 

A question for those who purchased a GR-HD1 or HD10. Would you buy one again today? Overall, how do you feel about the camera?

There have been a number of HD-1s 2nd hand on EBay that have sold at auction for around $1000, presumably as people trade "up" to the Sony.

If the HD-1 I have broke, I would seriously consider bidding on one of those as a replacement, with a view to trading up to a better progressive model with proper manual controls in a year or so.

But I wouldnt buy another one if I had to pay $2000-ish again.

I'm looking for a new or refurb unit in the $1000-1500 range. I think that's a very good price considering the build quality and features of this unit. And also consider its only other price/market competitor the HDR-FX1 is nearly $3,500.

Agreed.

Also - The HD10 is worth paying a bit more for. The audio features are handy, but the prime attractiion for me would be that it has less agressive edge sharpening.

<<<-- Originally posted by Graham Hickling : Agreed.

Also - The HD10 is worth paying a bit more for. The audio features are handy, but the prime attractiion for me would be that it has less agressive edge sharpening. -->>>

I'm not too picky. The HD1 will suit me fine. I don't plan on doing any pro work with it or anything, just saving some memories.

Former owner of HD10U here, I wouldn't buy one.

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy : Former owner of HD10U here, I wouldn't buy one. -->>>

Any specific reasons why? Or are you just spoiled by the HVR-Z1U?

I have a lot of friends who have the HD10 who love it more than me, but I guess I'm spoiled with cameras like the DVX100A (24p) and the FX1 (3 chips).

heath

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : I have a lot of friends who have the HD10 who love it more than me, but I guess I'm spoiled with cameras like the DVX100A (24p) and the FX1 (3 chips).

heath -->>>

Yeah, the DVX100A seems like an amazing camera as is the FX1. I'm just looking for entry level high definition. So the only real choice is the GR-HD1.

Unfortunately neither the HD1 or the HD10 make great "point and shoot" style camcorders, especially if you are planning to shoot indoors a lot. It doesn't do well with low-light situations (i.e., average indoor lighting) at all.

We love the HD10, but we shoot everything film-style, setup every shot with proper lighting, etc. We also have the tools to correct things in post if needed.

On the other hand, the HD10 and the HD1 both make great outdoor "Discovery HD" type cameras, and no lighting or setup is required for that. The extra resolution really pays off when doing outdoor shooting of large panoramas, city shots, etc. So if you are primarily interested in doing outdoor shots, taking beautiful shots of the scenery on vacation, etc. then the HD1 would be a great inexpensive HD camera for that.

Hope this helps. To answer the original question, if we were the buying types (we never buy, always rent), we would definitely buy the HD10 again for our purposes. Besides, it was the only HD camera under $60k at the time. Even today it stands up well against the FX1 and Z1 (hell, the HD10 is only $2,600 from B&H these days, about half the price of the Z1), if you have the patience and gear to set up your shots correctly.

Scott, I'm in your shoes, entry level HD. I'm TOTALLY in love with the HD1.

Would I buy one again? Well I paid less than $2k for mine. For $1500, at this point I think yes I would do it all over again.

Try this little WMV-HD clip, only 3.0mb

<<<-- Originally posted by Ben Buie : Unfortunately neither the HD1 or the HD10 make great "point and shoot" style camcorders, especially if you are planning to shoot indoors a lot. It doesn't do well with low-light situations (i.e., average indoor lighting) at all.

We love the HD10, but we shoot everything film-style, setup every shot with proper lighting, etc. We also have the tools to correct things in post if needed.

On the other hand, the HD10 and the HD1 both make great outdoor "Discovery HD" type cameras, and no lighting or setup is required for that. The extra resolution really pays off when doing outdoor shooting of large panoramas, city shots, etc. So if you are primarily interested in doing outdoor shots, taking beautiful shots of the scenery on vacation, etc. then the HD1 would be a great inexpensive HD camera for that.

Hope this helps. To answer the original question, if we were the buying types (we never buy, always rent), we would definitely buy the HD10 again for our purposes. Besides, it was the only HD camera under $60k at the time. Even today it stands up well against the FX1 and Z1 (hell, the HD10 is only $2,600 from B&H these days, about half the price of the Z1), if you have the patience and gear to set up your shots correctly. -->>>

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Thanks for the help!

I'd say 80% of what I'll be shooting is outdoors. And I can live with a little poor indoor performance for the rest. I also find the design of this camera really appealing. I held one in a Good Guys store and unlike all other large cameras, it was comfortable to hold. The rotating grip really seems nice.

I found a refurb unit for $1,549, so I think I'll order it soon.

<<<-- Originally posted by Tom Roper : Scott, I'm in your shoes, entry level HD. I'm TOTALLY in love with the HD1.

Would I buy one again? Well I paid less than $2k for mine. For $1500, at this point I think yes I would do it all over again.

Try this little WMV-HD clip, only 3.0mb -->>>

I saw your clip before, looks really nice to be compressed.

Did you get a refurb unit or a new one? Please email the retailer where you bought it to debonarion@gmail.com.

Thanks!

Scott, I wouldn't buy one for a few reasons:

#1 - I personally didn't like JVC's regional rep., and I'd rather not say why in public. I'll tell you if you email me. Also, the overall response from JVC to the community who bought the cam seemed to be non-existant. It would have been nice to have gotten a firm "no" on firmware upgrades, so we could have more manual control. Although, maybe there way of saying "no" is to say nothing at all for over 2 years? I guess so.

#2 - The lack of manual controls were just to much to bare. After using the PD-150 for years it just made it to difficult to shoot something quickly.

#3 - The image was pretty good when it was shot right...really bad when just trying to "get a shot". Someone in a forum said that the JVC created "high quality VHS" type footage. I'd say that's spot on! I've gone back and looked at footage I've shot and that assessment sums it up for me. Although, the image is definately worth it if you have time to spend babying the cam. I just don't have time on most shoots to baby a video camera like a film camera...who does?? Sure, DP's on film shoots!

#4 - Even though the audio on the HD10U was better than the GR1, well...not by much! You don't have FULL control like other DV cameras (PD150's etc). It's almost there, but just not good enough for serious PAYING work. If you're goofing off, sure it'll work ok..

#5 - I've used Sony products since childhood and they just seem to work right. They might not be the best in the world, but for some reason I feel like their products are made with a "this must work right" attitude. The JVC seemed to be a product that went on the market to "test the waters". These thoughts have been on my mind since I sold my HD10U and bought a HVR-Z1U. My Sony has it all - right out of the gate. It's not perfect, but it's definately worth every single cent I paid. I can't say that about the JVC cam.

Final thoughts - if someone is shooting an indie film I guess the HD10U is still a good cheap option. But, if you are shooting run and gun - I'd either get a standard DV or a Z1U. But, don't get the Z1U if you're not going to be able to tweak footage in post. If you have to shoot, edit and get it out there....get a DV camera like the DVX or Xl2. The JVC is an option for people with a tripod and it's light kit starved, so don't buy it if you plan to shoot in any place that doesn't have LIGHT.

JVC's new camera looks great, but I can only comment on my JVC experience and it was "Fair". It wasn't great or complete suck...it was "Fair". My Sony Z1U experience so far..."Very Good". If it shot nicely with high motion out of the gate??? "Excellent", but I guess we'll get there in the next model....2007 or 2008?? I hope so! In the meantime, I'm perfectly happy with Sony...thank you Sony!

Fair and Balanced...
 

Scott, I would caution you that pro's like Chris live in constant turmoil about their purchases, including the current FX1/Z1U. Today's messy divorce started after yesterday's blissful honeymoon!

In Chris' case, he sold his HD10 for nearly what he paid for it, and made money with it while he had it. You have a chance to pick up an HD1 for 1/2 what he paid. How bad is that?

Look at what he said about his HD10:

"The bottom line from you and I (two owners of HD cameras and TV sets) -- is that HD rocks and that is that.
The HD10u is worth the money - end of story. Let's talk about something else..."

"The truth and facts are that actual owners of the camera that have posted on this site are almost 100% satisfied with their purchase."

"Once again, the word on the street is we're generally happy with the camera and are REALLY excited about the HDV format more than anything else. I'd take note - there are a lot of people on here willing to spend $$ on HDV equipment. The JVC cam is the first step and the next wave will be even more exciting...my personal feeling is kudos to JVC for putting out a camera that flies in the face of the other stuff out there. "

"I really don't like DV footage now...it looks like crap after using my HD cam. It doesn't matter if its not perfect..it's better and that's all that counts to me."

"The pros: It's better than DV - every camera out there. It may not have every button needed or whatever, but overall the word is JVC's camera makes a better image than any DV cam. I own the cam, have used every other one out there and I agree."

"In my view, the debate is over.....the camera produces great images. "

Re: Fair and Balanced...
 

Thanks Tom, I got a good chuckle out of this.

Honestly from all the reviews I've read on the web, overall most of them were very positive. You could compare going from SD to HD like going from B&W to Color in the 60s. Even if the first color sets weren't perfect, they were still amazing to watch.

Scott

The 2 questions posed to OWNERS of the JVC cameras:

1) Would you buy one again today?

2) Overall, how do you feel about the camera?

I answered those questions based on my cumlative past experiences being an HD10U OWNER. Those old comments you copied and pasted were made when I had the camera and was using it - today is a new day and that's what the questions were about.

....AND Scott? Your welcome for taking the time to answer your questions in detail. Because of this thread I've just decided to limit my posts in the future...I don't need this hassle.

I would buy one again today, especially at the going rate of second-hand units. Overall, I'm happy with the camera. It takes extra steps to edit the footage compared to DV, which is the only disadvantage I see, but the tradeoff is worthwhile because all the extra resolution.

However, if I owned a Sony Z1 I'd probably have a different opinion.

I prefer progressive so hopefully I'll be in a position soon to get the HD100 and use my HD10 as a backup camera / stationary wide-shot camera.

<<<-- Originally posted by Christopher C. Murphy :

....AND Scott? Your welcome for taking the time to answer your questions in detail. Because of this thread I've just decided to limit my posts in the future...I don't need this hassle. -->>>

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I apologize for not taking the time to thank you for the response.

Sometimes I don't want to hear negative things about something I want to purchase, especially when the negativity appears to be inspired by experience with newer equipment.

<<<-- Originally posted by Murad Toor : I would buy one again today, especially at the going rate of second-hand units. Overall, I'm happy with the camera. It takes extra steps to edit the footage compared to DV, which is the only disadvantage I see, but the tradeoff is worthwhile because all the extra resolution.

However, if I owned a Sony Z1 I'd probably have a different opinion.

I prefer progressive so hopefully I'll be in a position soon to get the HD100 and use my HD10 as a backup camera / stationary wide-shot camera. -->>>

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Yeah, I think for the price it seems like the best deal available for HD. Honestly I wouldn't want to even see a Z1 until the price comes down.

What extra steps are involved in editing the footage?

You have to admit it was KIND OF funny that Tom took that much time to dig up your old posts, hey at least he is thorough :)

In Murph's defense it is understandable that he was a much bigger supporter of the camera when he owned it, that is human nature. The truth is the FX1 and Z1 are WAY more suited to the type of work Murph does, I can't imagine trying to use the HD10 for event videography, it would be a nightmare. Once you get your hands on an FX1 or a Z1 you kind of kick yourself for putting up with all the HD10/HD1 hassles for so long.

In Tom's defense it is a little disheartening to have so many people say how great a camera is, and then have those same people talk about the camera like it is useless when they get something else.

The bottom line is the FX1 and Z1 are going to be better cameras for 90% of the people out there than the HD1 or HD10, albeit for much more money (nearly double if you compare the HD10 to the Z1 or the HD1 to the FX1).

So, as a final answer to your question Scott:

If the HD1 was at the low price it is today, AND I couldn't spend over $2,000, AND I absolutely had to have HD, sure I would buy the HD1. That sounds like the boat you are in, so go for it. I mean, what other choices do you have for under $2k really?

But Murph is absolutely right, if you need great quality under most all conditions, you want the ease of use and flexibility that the HD1 doesn't provide, you don't absolutely have to have HD, and you have more money to spend, then buy something else.

Can't we all just get along?

Murph, hope you aren't serious about not posting anymore, you provide very good input into this forum.

Hey guys, you think this is bad, if the HD100 is anywhere close to the price of the Z1 all hell is going to break loose :)

Good advice, Ben...

Relax, y'all! It's just a message board.

Chris H., I see you trimmed my post...I'm sorry. lol...yes, it's only a message board. You are right!

I'm sorry to all, but I guess my emotions got the best of me. I think a lot of people that post every day on forums run into this problem of contraditions. One day you say you love something...the next you argue that it stinks. Unlike regular conversations in real life...these posts remain for years. What are we to do?

I got PO'ed - it happens to everyone though. I'm a passionate guy about many things...and sometimes my passion ends up at my fingertips on the keyboard. Also, I've been super busy working and trying to make money with these toys we talk about here. It's all about video...every day. I've got to hit the sack because I have to get up at 3AM to "make the donuts". If you're not from New England you wouldn't get that joke. lol

115 over 80 here.

Scott,

I am still selling my HD10 here at DVInfo, dropped the price, too. Visit here for more:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=35516

heath

<<<-- Originally posted by Scott Wilson : What extra steps are involved in editing the footage? -->>>

I guess if you're using iMovie HD you won't have any extra steps compared to DV but it'd just take a little extra time for capture/transcode and print to video. Otherwise, well the LumiereHD workflow is not simple.

<<<-- Originally posted by Murad Toor : <<<-- Originally posted by Scott Wilson : What extra steps are involved in editing the footage? -->>>

I guess if you're using iMovie HD you won't have any extra steps compared to DV but it'd just take a little extra time for capture/transcode and print to video. Otherwise, well the LumiereHD workflow is not simple. -->>>

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I have Vegas 4.0. Is it possible to edit HD footage with Vegas?

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Scott,

I am still selling my HD10 here at DVInfo, dropped the price, too. Visit here for more:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=35516

heath -->>>

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Thanks for the offer, but I found a refurb HD1 for $1,500.

<<<-- Originally posted by Scott Wilson : I have Vegas 4.0. Is it possible to edit HD footage with Vegas? -->>>

I guess so... there's an entire forum section here dedicated to HDV editing solutions on the PC. I don't know what's up on the x86 side of things.

Scott,

No sweat, but FYI, there is an extended warranty on my camera and it's the pro version.

heath

Another thing to keep in mind is the HD1 has a 90 day warranty on parts and labor, whereas the HD10 has a one year warranty. If you're buying the refurbished camera from a JVC authorized reseller you'll get the same warranty as a new item.

I bought the extended warranty for peace of mind. I have 18 months or so left on it, fully transferrable.

heath

It's 1 year parts, 90 days labor on GR-HD1 for USA. I just looked.

my bad . . . I suppose the labor charges wouldn't be cheap though.

<<<-- Originally posted by Tom Roper : It's 1 year parts, 90 days labor on GR-HD1 for USA. I just looked. -->>>

Not much of a warranty for such an expensive camera. I have a $1,500 HP monitor that has a 3 year warranty. But cameras and monitors are different animals I suppose.

Extended warranty saved my butt. The fire wire card fried on my hd10u a month after the manufacture warranty.
Would I buy another HD10u? Sure. For the price it's hard to beat.
Do I want a new gy100u? Hell yes. But when money is a factor...like it almost always is..I'll take the time with my HD10u to get the shots right and tweak the hell out of it in post.

Erik is in the know and his stuff ROCKS! I have respect for the filmmakers and videographers that made the HD10 and HD1 SING! But, for my money, I'll take the HD10 with more features and less edge enhancement.

heath

Thanks Heath...anything to help you get a sale:)
Less edge enhancment ROCKS!

I'm not saying that for a sale, just to say your stuff was great! With patience, this camera is great.

I'm done with the buying a camera biz--I barely shoot anything anymore, and with access to my friends' DVX100As (I'm a big fan) and FX1 (big fan there, too), and rental possibilities with the HD-100, I don't need to buy a camera for a while. Or ever.

heath

Thanks man, I was just kidding.