FS-4 Pro HD--Any fix for HDV time code issue?? Matt?
 

Hey guys...I have seen this issue posted before, but never saw a fix or workaround. I have a FS-4 Pro HD. How do I get Canopus to actually use the m2t files. It plays 3-5 secs and then locks up due to TC jumps. I have chosen to ignore TC in the menu options, to no avail.

Any help would be great. I like editing full res, but hate the capture time I thought I was avoiding with a DTE device.

Hi Scott,

What camera are you using?

Thanks,

Matt

Hvr-z1u
 

HVR-Z1U. Is there something that I am doing wrong with this camera?

I've had nothing but problems with the FS4 with HDV upgrade, using the Z1 or Canon H1 - even the HD100, in conjuction with Edius. Edius works with almost anything - and trys to work with what are corrupt files from the FS4HDV. I tried them in Vegas as well - bombed.

The FS4 is great for use in SD/DV modes (use it that way every week), but the HDV files written are problematic, can cause crashes, are corrupt, etc. I was one of the first to buy the upgrade...

I also like running things in local mode for some shoots, and the record button triggers problems on the FS4HDV, where it should be free-flowing. You can see the scrolling timecode on the LCD jump when you push the record button (ad hoc recording on tape, with a hopes of a master capture of everything on the firestore), and the files suffer (not/never the case in SD/DV).

This is coming from a guy about to chunk into an FS100 any hour now... Fingers crossed.

I'd love to find a final set of camera/firestore settings to use, and/or necessary firmware, etc, specifically for the Z1/H1. The FS4 is awesome in SD - want my money back for the HDV...

Hi,

There is some known issues with TC and Canopus. The biggest problem we have had with our HDV support is that the individual camcorder manufacturers choose to put the recorded timecode into different areas within the MPEG transport stream. The NLE manufacturers also look in different areas for the TC. The reason you do not see these issues when capturing from camcorder (off tape) to the NLE is that the TC is basically restriped on capture (the correct TC value coming from AV/C communication between the camcorder and NLE). We are looking at what we can change to fix this.

One other issue with using HDV camcorders is that when you are recording to tape and disk simultaneously and triggering from the camcorder, there is always a small glitch in the beginning of the recording on FireStore or whatever is connected to the 1394 output (up to 2 seconds). This is caused by the codec on the camera re-syncing itself. The only HDV camera that gets around this issue is the GY-HD100/101 rev (A). On this model, you can set the priority for the codec to the tape or the 1394 output (FireStore). So, in your example Shawn, this may be why you were seeing glitches in the FireStore recordings in that every time you triggered the tape recorder, you can have a glitch in the FireStore recording of up to 2 seconds…Canopus may be tripping up on this.

Hope this explains a few things. I'll keep you posted as to our progress.

Matt

Thanks Matt - one more question - FS100 vs. Canopus
 

Matt,

Thanks very much - this is the most helpful answer I've received from your company - I had just given up on the HDV side after a while. Still extremely happy with the FS4 in regular DV mode. Please keep us up to date as things are resolved on the HDV side.

Can I assume that the FS100 is a completely different beast - ready for bulletproof work in Canopus Edius, or any other NLE supporting P2/MXF? I'm about to purchase one for use with the HVX200 & the SPX800 - and I want to use the files in Edius Broadcast (version 3.61 - and soon to be version 4). I'd hate to run into any similar problems/glitches, considering the additional investment, etc. I want to be able to trust it with DVCPRO50/HD content the same way that I do with SD DV content every week.

Thanks again for everything,
Shawn

Hi Shawn,

The FS-100 has no known issues with Edius. FS-100 records DV/DVCPRO, DVCPRO 50 or DVCPRO HD MXF files in the P2 directory structure (including XML files and thumbnails). You import the clips to Edius like you would clips from a P2 card.

Hope that helps.

Matt

Thanks Matt
 

Yes - most helpful indeed, and you'll have my continued business because of it. I have an FS100 on order.

Thanks again.

Matt...any ETA? Any ideas on when this might be fixed. I like shooting and editing in HDV, but I hate the capture time.

I don't have an accurate estimate at this point, but I will notify this forum when it is available.

Thanks,

Matt

So my only option right now is to record HDV to tape, and if I want to use the FS-4, I have to downconvert to SD. Is that correct?

Matt - is there any new info available on the HDV resolution. I was one of those who bought the Canon H1 / Firestore FS4ProHD package and have as yet been unable to use it to do what it was sold to do. Additionally, the 6pin to 4 pin cable that came with the Firestore had a bad 4 pin male plug that broke a pin in the H1's 1394 jack and required Canon factory repair.

Sorry to say this, but the Firestore debacle has really left a bad taste in my mouth at this point. I hope they can sort things out soon as the idea of bypassing the capture function is fantastic - but it just does not work reliably or at all at this point in time.

No new update at this point. I will let you know when I have more information. Unfortunately, this is very complicated stuff. There is such a variation between all the cameras and the NLEs and it has been very difficult to be able to make something that works with all models. But believe me, we are working on it and I will let you know when I have more news.

Thanks,

Matt

Thanks Matt for the reply (appears that you are one of the few sources at Focus Enhancement that is responsive and that is much appreciated).

There are a lot of us eagerly awaiting a fix.

Yes there are. :)

Matt - it's been a couple of months or better since this known problem was being worked on. Now that the QT support has been finished, are we getting close to resolving the above issue? Lot's of Firestores sitting collecting dust.

Mine being one of them. It would be great to use it again with something else besides SD.

No new update at this point. I will post to this forum when I have more information.

Matt

Matt, is it safe to assume the FS-4 Pro HD works with HDV using FCP 5.1? Any known issues?
(Sony FX1)

Thank you, and your support to the members here is outstanding, thanks again.

Yes, it works fine in 1080i 50/60 (as well as 720p/30) as long as you have the 2.0 upgrade (which added QuickTime HDV support).

Matt

Matt, will the FS-4 record anything the A1 of H1 from Canon shoots?

Will it capture HD and SD?

Is this a better solution than minidv tape and if so why?

I saw another thread you replied to about a prob with something to do with 720/x or something....has that been remedied?

THe problem discussed in this thread about the timecode and so forth, will that be a problem with the Canon XL series, A1 or H1? If so, do you have a better solution?

If I go on vacation with one, and fill it up in a couple days, how hard is it to transfer it to a Laptop hdd in HD for storage and how would it do it?

Last question, when I get home, would I have to transfer back to the FS-4 to put on my desktop for editing or straight from laptop to desktop?

thanks
Jerry.

Yes and yes.

It is better than tape for two reasons; first it overcomes the limitations of tape in that it can record several hours in one stretch as opposed to 80 minutes maximum on tape; and second, since it creates an edit-ready file, it completely bypasses the lengthy and tedious video capture process that tape requires in order to get it into your editing computer.

It's simply a data transfer by FireWire.

Same answer... it's simply a data transfer by FireWire.

Thanks Chris, you don't know how great that makes me feel. I am so glad that it is just a firewire transfer and not a big deal of making it stream or whatever to the laptop. I have an extra HDD for my laptop that I got for when I go on trips for still photography, so this should work nicely with the A1 and my laptop.

Sounds like that will be put on my to get list, even if I end up with an SD camcorder. THanks so much.

Jerry

Jerry,

If it is an FS-4, -4HD, -4Pro or -4Pro HD, make sure you have the 1.1 or 2.0 (QuickTime HDV support) software loaded on the unit to use with the new Canons. The FS-C ships standard with support for these cams.

Matt

Thanks Matt....canon recommended the FS-4....
But would like to check outthe FS-C after your recommendation. Does the software you mention come with it or do I need to aqcuire it elsewhere?

Is that also the software I need to transfer a full hdd in the FS component to a laptop while on vacation? or what would be needed? thanks..t

Like I mentioned, the FS-C does have support for the XL-H1, A1 and G1 as standard. You just needed the software update I mentioned to add support for the FS-4 family.

If I understand your other question correctly, you do not need any software to transfer clips from FS to a laptop as long as your computer has an OHCI compliant FireWire card/port. When FS is connected to a computer, it is just a standard FireWire drive.

Hope that helps,

Matt

Just to keep things in perspective, you only get long recording times with a Firestore if you buy a special long-life battery, and for the FS-4 that doesn't fit in the on-camera mount offered for that unit. On my FS-4 I get about 75 minutes or so before the standard battery conks out, so not much advantage there compared to shooting tape. And as far as capture is concerned, you'll probably still transfer the data files from your Firestore to your computer at some point, which can take a while for anything more than a few minutes of video. Add in the time required to make a secure backup and total data management time for a DTE is similar to the time required to capture from tape, but you do get more flexibility about when you can start editing.

For me the biggest benefit of a DTE recorder is the security of having a backup recording source, and that's saved me a couple of times now when I had issues with tape recordings. But knowing that there may be a problem recording HDV and editing in Edius puts me in a bind for using my FS-4 for anything but DV, so I guess I'm not really getting what I wanted in terms of backup capability either. Sigh.

Could we put together a comprehensive list of what the FS-4 can and can't do with various cameras and editing programs and post that somewhere as a sticky note? Does anyone have a workaround for converting FS-4 HDV files to a format Edius Pro 4 can read?

just a heads up. Focus now offers a High Capacity mount that can handle the bigger battery.

Those with a mounting kit can just order the hi cap cradle from Focus
http://www.focusinfo.com/webstore/catalog.asp?type=29

Gary

Matt...any update on a possible update to fix the issue with the Z1U?

Hi Matt and thanks....I am looking at prob the HD pro(larger hdd). You understood me properly.

But on the first part the software update...is that something I get from you guys or someone else? Do you guys have those updates, and is there any type of software installed already on it? thanks
Jerry

Excellent - thanks for the tip! :-)

For those interested, the high capacity cradle only is part ASYF-1043-01 ($39), and the full mounting kit with that cradle is ASYF-1044-01 ($129).

Matt on the FS-C, i could not find it listed in your online store...is it coming there soon?

And the battery that comes with it, how many minutes is it rated for? thanks.
Jerry

FS-C is sold exclusively through Canon USA and their dealer network. It is not available directly through Focus. The FS-C ships standard with a battery good for 90 minutes of record time. A 180 minute version is available.

Thanks Matt..

Guess I should have realized, C stood for canon. Since it appears to be specifically for Canon, can you tell me which of these models "FS-4, -4HD, -4Pro or -4Pro HD" it equates to? I am curious because before you told me about it i was looking at the 4 Pro HD, so just curious if the C version equates to one of those?

2 other questions and I think I won't bother you again...sorry for the many diff posts.

I would assume it uses a Laptop hdd? Is the software update installed on the hdd? I ask, because I am just curious, if it is possible to, when you fill up the hdd in there, to just switch it for another laptop hdd or is it sealed and so forth? I am just exploring my options of how I can use this.

The other question, will this work with a still Canon DSLR, if the cam has a firewire, in place of a microdrive or whatever? If not, would it still be possible to transfer pictures to it in the field from the camera/microdrive for temp storage?

Just curious..thanks a bunch for all your help.
jerry

Hi Jerry,

FS-C is most similar to the FS-4Pro HD model in the FS line. The FS-C does come with a Canon XL mount kit however. There is a laptop drive inside of FS-C, but it was not designed to be removable, nor is it recommended. It will also void your warranty. Not all laptop drives are the same and a quick search online can show you the dangers of using just any drive inside of an FS. Bottom line...not recommended at all!

None of the FS models will work with a Digital SLR camera, however it is possible to mount the camera (or the memory card) to a computer and copy the clips over to FS. When an FS is mounted to a computer, it is essentially an external FireWire drive.

Matt

Fix for timecode with Z1U
 

Matt...any update on a possible update to fix the issue with the Z1U?

If you are referring to TC issues with the Z1 and the m2t file format, no there is no update as of yet. The issue is with the m2t file format and not necessarily the Sony camera. TC works fine now for QuickTime HDV recordings with the Sony Z1 and the 2.0 software version for FS-4ProHD/-C/DR-HD100. If you were speaking of another issue, let me know.

Matt, I really hate to do this to you after saying I would not.

But right now it appears I may be staying with my VX2100(Sony).

Will your products work with it, it is SD only and not 16:9 or anything, but would any or all of your products work with it so I can get away from tape on it.

And if so will all of them or just certain ones? IF so which would you recommend?

If the FS-c would work I would think hard on going with it, as sometime in the future I would go with a Canon camcorder with HD and would assume that it would work with future Canons, correct? But want to see if all your models would work with this so i would have a choice in case of cost issues at this point. And if they will work with the VX would there be any TC issues or other issues that I need be concerned or know about? Is it possible to just turn the timecode in it off?

Also do you format this just as you do a regular drive and in FAt or NTSC or what? and if you have to format, do you have to reload the software updates you speak of?

Chris responded to my post and said that your products would work with SD in the A1 and no dropouts or anything.

Would the same be true if I used it just for the SD only VX2100?

Which model, if they work with this camcorder might come with a mounting bracket or would I need to buy a separate bracket?

And lastly,I would assume if they work, they would capture straight to .avi file? and thus be able to transfer that file to computer via firewire as discussed earlier? I guess just wondering if it works what file format would it save the SD capture to?

And as Chris said it is still better than minidv tape even on a vx2100?(we were discussing the A1, but believe it holds true here i hope).

Thanks again for your time and patience. I really love the idea of your product vs tape and if all will work well will be getting one soon.
jerry

Matt, I really hate to do this to you after saying I would not.

But right now it appears I may be staying with my VX2100(Sony).

Will your products work with it, as it is SD only and not 16:9 or anything, but would any or all of your products work with it so I can get away from tape on it. I read about the FS-4 working with it but will all other models?

And if so will all of them or just certain ones? IF so which would you recommend?

If the FS-c would work I would think hard on going with it, as sometime in the future I would go with a Canon camcorder with HD and would assume that it would work with future Canons, correct? But want to see if all your models would work with this so i would have a choice in case of cost issues at this point. And if they will work with the VX would there be any TC issues or other issues that I need be concerned or know about? Is it possible to just turn the timecode in it off?

Also do you format this just as you do a regular drive and in FAt or NTSC or what? and if you have to format, do you have to reload the software updates you speak of?

Chris responded to my post and said that your products would work with SD in the A1 and no dropouts or anything.

Would the same be true if I used it just for the SD only VX2100?

Which model, if they work with this camcorder might come with a mounting bracket or would I need to buy a separate bracket? How would I mount it to the corder if possible?

And lastly,I would assume if they work, they would capture straight to .avi file? and thus be able to transfer that file to computer via firewire as discussed earlier? I guess just wondering if it works what file format would it save the SD capture to?

And as Chris said it is still better than minidv tape even on a vx2100?(we were discussing the A1, but believe it holds true here i hope).

Thanks again for your time and patience. I really love the idea of your product vs tape and if all will work well will be getting one soon.
jerry

I am trying to think ahead...if I go to Hd later would rather get an HD compatible one now for then as well.

In that post I also read about just hitting one record button and both would start recording the FS unit and the camcorder. IF that is possible how do you get it to do that and do you hit record on the corder or the FS unit?