Drones Vs Eagles
 

Video shows Dutch police training the birds of prey to take down drones in mid-air* | Daily Mail Online

Dutch Police training Eagles to take out Drones !!!

Not really sure what to think about this ... but I like the Falcon drone in the video further down that shoots a NET to take out the DJi Phantom lol.

Re: Drones Vs Eagles
 

Ah the battle lines are being drawn and allies aligned.
For some reason crows are mortal enemies of eagles (perhaps eagles raid the nests of crows?) Out in front of my place on the Bay I've often seen several crows dive-bombing and for lack of a better understanding of the situation I'd say they were attacking the eagle in flight. which is quite a feat of courage btw because if you have ever seen a full sized eagle closeup, you'd know just how big and fearsome they are.
Anyway back to the plan; We train a murder of crows to escort our drones much like fighter planes escorted bombers in wwii and when the eagle approaches, the crows will peel off and harass it while we carry on with our picture taking / video shooting mission.
Drat ...I've forgotten about seagulls who have already sided with the other side since they seem to have a natural hatred of our drones and also for some reason are respected by the same crows who would go after an eagle
Stealth drones anyone?
- 30

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Okay, I have been flying RC aircraft for 30 years now. This assault on the hobby is getting ridiculous. The Academy of Model Aeronautics is an organization which self regulates hobbyists and includes insurance for its members in case an accident was to happen. The media is blowing this WAY out of proportion to get ratings. As such people have lost the ability to think for themselves. Are more people flying yes! Are there going to be a few accidents? Yes! Do we need to regulate 320 million people? Absolutely NOT! People aren't using the WIDE angled lenses from a few hundred feet in the air to spy on your kids or anything else. They are using them as a form of enjoyment or to capture video for profit. Personally, I am not registering any of my quadcopters (drones), helicopters or planes. I am a responsible adult. If an accident was to happen that is what my insurance is for. Using a bird of prey or other method to destroy my $2000 toy is destruction of private property plain and simple. I don't care if it is the police doing it. Does that make it right? They can only justify it, IF the drone in question is a direct threat to people such as someone flying it over a populated stadium. In which case the person should be arrested for public endangerment. On the flip side, if I am flying mine in the park minding my own business and someones tries to shoot it down I will respond with equal measure. They have no right, and should expect to be confronted.

I saw this crap coming months ago. Every opportunity I had I posted comments about not creating unnecessary laws that further restrict out freedoms. That is oppression after all. (most of these conversation took place on video and photography sites) Now here I am a year later just trying fly my RC aircraft in peace. A perfectly good clean fun hobby that keeps people out of trouble. We can't do anything anymore without someone trying to regulate it because of the what if factor.

Rant over...

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Looking at the caption of the second picture in the link: This is hilarious!

“This behavior has been seen unprompted in the wild, with eagles bringing down a quadcopter in Austria last year, and the team has found the birds instinctively look for somewhere to land away from humans.*In the tests, the birds are rewarded with a tasty treat for bringing down a drone, reinforcing their desire to do so again”

(Well, funny, I guess, assuming it not my drone.)

Out west on the coast here the ravens and seagulls are often enemies of eagles. While the eagles are bigger it’s more like comparing a fighter plane to a bomber where the fighter planes are more maneuverable. It’s actually not that uncommon to see ravens or seagulls attacking an eagle, especially if the eagle captured a salmon.

Greg - I gave up making model planes in the fifth grade. Had just finished a stick portion of a stick-model B-24 and the glue was drying while it sat on the sofa. Next step was to do the skin, however, my sister came along and sat on it. That took a lot out of me.

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Yeah its such a fun hobby. When I was a kid I used to spend hours after school until wee hours of the morning building planes. That is where I get most of my enjoyment, the building process. These days you have to look hard to find a kit. Most of what's available is RTF ready-to-fly...

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It is not just accidents and the potentential for them that is generating bad press for drones.

The second part of this clip (from about 01:38) shows a situation that is becoming increasingly common in the UK and which causes a great deal of resentment among the majority of enthusiasts who are considerate to other photographers/film makers.

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That guy probably got a great moving shot of the train. Not seeing a problem.

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Seriously?

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Sorry, I'm with Greg.

Unintentionally bagging someone else's shot happens all the time. Intentionally bagging someone's shot happens from time-to-time, but I don't see how it has anything to do with the drone. If it was unintentional, it was unintentional whether it was a drone, a professional, or a passerby with a point-and-shoot. If it was intentional, you're a jerk whether you were flying a drone or had the camera on a tripod.

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Hey Colin, they're obviously not steam enthusiasts.

Mike, Greg, the noise of that drone completely destroyed the sound of that wonderful old steam locomotive. That's one problem and also by being in shot, it has ruined the nostalgia trip in two ways, whether intentionally or not!

Dave

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it happens

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Colin, is that your footage? I've been futzing around with the audio in Izotope RX5 and it's possible to attenuate away the flying whipper-snipper noise.

You'd still have to clone it out in the vision part of your video.

Andrew

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Thank you. :-)

Andrew, it's not mine but if you have a cleaned up version of the audio of that section, I could contact the person who did film it. I think removing the audio intrusion would be a significant improvement. Unfortunately I don't have Izotope RX5 available to try it myself.

Not sure what format the original was filmed in and how well it would stand up to any cloning.

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Without the visual fix I think there is no point doing the buzz removal.

Andrew

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I can't believe that drone users can't see what is coming. A ban on the sale or importation of drones, perhaps in all the developed countries. It's going to happen, and probably needs to happen. Too many crazy and thoughtless people compared to the dedicated enthusiasts, and many of these have no idea of the legal implications. The radio control aircraft people have followed and even formed many of the rules and with these, the costs have precluded people doing really stupid things, but now anyone can buy a drone that flys and doesn't crash on its first outing. You cannot stop the idiots, and most aren't interested in training or licensing or safety.

It won't be long before they get banned legally, probably when one gets sucked into a landing aircraft's intake and it crashes. The backlash will see the use of them severely restricted. At any big gathering they are going to have to go. Reading the Dutch info, people are taking their drones to sporting events, I can imagine something like the Olympics where there's a swarm of drones over the crowd and competitors. This can't be allowed to happen. The ban is coming folks. Voluntary codes of practice just don't work, because only responsible owners follow them, the damage coming from idiots with deep pockets.

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There's a whole slew of bad possibilities in training birds to go after drones.


There is the obvious one of birds training other birds, crows and magpies especially. These may go on to hunt drones indiscriminately for their own sport.

If there is a doubt that the crowd below may endangered by a falling drone, there remains no doubt after the bird has disabled it.

The training may de-condition large birds from their normal reflex of folding and dropping to dodge real aircraft.

Unless the drones have shrouded props, the birds are at very real risk of harm or death. Birds do not have a great deal of structural integrity between the head and body.

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Greg - if you're flying your drone in the park and minding your own business, I doubt you have anything to fear. This is not about persecuting a sensible hobbyist. The problem is that unlike with RC aircraft in the past, drones are being operated by far more people than just responsible hobbyists, and those range from the downright stupid to the criminal - and it's going to get worse. (Just do a search for "drugs" with "drones".) And that's before we even think about possible criminal uses in the future....

That's what this story is about - not people such as yourself flying well away from other people. Not shooting down drones at random - but dealing with drones that are being used criminally or causing a potential danger.
A few months ago I was in a town square when a drone came into view, and my first reaction was just interest. Then it crashed into the clock tower, seemingly after going out of control, and fell very hard to ground about 4 feet behind a girl. If it had happened in the other (more crowded) part of the square, it's pretty certain someone would have been seriously injured or killed. I'd heard drone mishap stories - but when you see something like that right in front of you.....

So what is "freedom" and what is "oppression"? I have no problem with you or anyone else operating a drone well away from crowded areas. But in a crowded area, what about the freedom of those below, to not be at unnecessary risk?

What has changed is that in the past people flew RC aircraft for the joy of just that, let alone the enjoyment of construction. Now people fly drones because of what they can "do" (normally filming and photography). So they look for interesting places to film with them, which often tend to have people nearby, and that's how the problems start.......

If the risk was only to the operator, no problem, I don't see it any different to someone indulging in a risky sport. But it's not. The risk is to others. You may be responsible, Greg, but it has to be realised that an increasing number of people who are flying drones aren't.

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David, well stated.

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While we can’t print all drone accidents, this just happened today (February 8). A few bits and pieces from the BBC web site. It sure does leave one wondering:

A drone hit the Empire State building’s 40th floor and then fell on to a ledge five levels lower.

It’s very lucky for him that it landed on a ledge and didn’t continue to the sidewalk or street below. The ground level next to the Empire State Building is probably pretty busy.

Operator’s excuses (so far):

#1: “The tweet, from a Twitter account in his name, also blames a year-old news article for its misleading information.” Way to go, blame someone else for your accident!

#2: ”All I wanted was to shoot five seconds of video to promote a non-profit" Oh, so it was for a non-profit? Well, then, maybe it’s alright then.

#3: ”I asked a cop 20 minutes before I did it. He said it was fine. Hopefully he got it in writing and signed.

#4: he’s likely working on this one.

For Bob: The hobbyists at the Bremerton National Airport across from Seattle use the abandoned cross-wind runway to fly their planes. A number of the operators are pilots and retired pilots so they know the precautions. Also, it’s probably more difficult to fly a plane with ailerons, an elevator, and a rudder than it is a drone.

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That's the problem with drone flying. I enjoy flying my Phantom in safe wide open countryside areas. But agree the "angry bees" sound could certainly annoy passers-by enjoying a quiet day out! I tend to fly only about once or twice a month and with 3 batteries that is about 30 mins a time. My one consolation is that I find dog owners often even more intrusive with their animals often running amok and barking insanely! And that's when I am not flying! If I see any dogs the Phantom stays on the ground until the coast is clear. Or well away if any appear when I am flying.

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If this was a photo run-by where paying customers on an excursion had their shot ruined by a buzzing drone, it's a problem. But if this was just caught on the fly (pun intended) from the side of the road, it's a shame, but there's little that can be done.

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I don't condone flying over people that's a bad idea... (common sense) People that do that should probably get a hefty fine. That would discourage others from not thinking before the act. Freedom is allowing people to do what they want provided that they are't harming anyone else or putting them in direct danger or oppressing them. When you create an arbitrary law because someone is doing something you don't like you are oppressing them. If you truly want to be free then you have to let them be. You don't have to like what they are doing but you have to accept it. People need to get over themselves. Seriously.

To many people these days are scared of their own shadow and armchair quarter-back everything. "what if this, what if that," (this is lack of common sense) "he said this, she said that." I'm offended. This is where oppressing others begins.


That drone pilot in that video might have been capturing video for is own work and the guy standing there shooting the train passing by ruined his shot. It goes both ways. It's only problem based on your perception. Your perception is your reality after all. Not to say that it might be ignorant of other factors.

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While that may be true, the big difference is that the guy shooting the train from the ground was static and could have been avoided, the drone flew into the ground guy's shot and could not be avoided, while the noise of the drone could not be avoided for a good while before it came into shot.

So which one is the bigger nuisance to the other?

Dave

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Therein lies the problem, perception bias. No matter whom or what got in his shot it would be considered a nuisance to the videographer. It could have been me and my wife walking with our dog... A few issues. First, you are assuming that the quad copter pilot intentionally flew into that guys video with malicious intent on ruining his shot. Highly doubtful. Second, assuming this is public property they both have EQUAL right to be there and engage in their own personal activities. Third, the guy was flying in an non-populated area and now your wanting to eliminate that as well? Lastly, the guy shooting the video can easily go over and mention that he is trying to shoot some video footage with audio and if he could refrain from flying while he gets the shot. I am sure the pilot wouldn't mind. People are kind when treated kindly.

Cheers,
Greg

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No Greg, you are the one making the assumption, assuming that you know what is in my mind and are putting words into my mouth.

I couldn't care less whether he flew into shot or brought his noisy toy into microphone range intentionally or not. The point is, certain activities are pretty antisocial and those that undertake them carry them out without caring how much or how badly they affect others around them. It doesn't matter whether the activity could allow a drone to crash into a crowd and possibly seriously hurt someone, or whether it destroys the peace and quiet of the countryside, it still ingnores the sensibilities of others.

That's it, rant over, I shall say no more on this subject.

Dave

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Perception bias! What is anti social to you may not be to others.

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This. Hiking into a snowy field to wait for a train to go by to take video of it seems pretty antisocial to me. It does not seem any more or less antisocial than hiking into a snowy field to wait for a train to go by to launch your quadcopter and take video of it from 20 feet in the air.

Also, I concur with the idea that when the quadcopter guy got home and looked at the footage, saw the guy with the tripod standing in that snowy field ruining his shot, he probably thought "I can't believe that a-hole with the tripod ruined my shot!", much like the tripod guy though about the quadcopter.

Win some, lose some. Don't over-legislate.

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Damn! Some Anti-Social @@@@@ just scooped me on Ebay and got that C100 that had only been used once by a 90 year old lady to take a video of her cat for $50 before I could push the button. Some people are just awful, right? Let's legislate against them!

It's a less than perfect world out there some days.

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But isn't "harming anyone else or putting them in direct danger or oppressing them" EXACTLY what we are talking about here?

Mercifully, the number of injuries because of drones has (so far) been relatively small. But it's early days yet, and if the number rises it can only be a matter of time. So doesn't it make sense to try to put (sensible) legislation in place now to limit the problem in the future?

I can only bring up again the incident I mentioned earlier, about seeing a largish drone crash a few feet behind a girl. Was that not a direct case of someone "putting another in direct danger"? Oppressing them, as you may say?

And that is just an incident I witnessed. There are many others reported, and regarding those involving other aircraft the consequences could be far more severe than death or injury to a single person, as may have been the case in my example. I'm all for freedom in principle, and likewise letting people do what they want, but unfortunately there are far too many people with drones who adopt a "never happen to me" attitude, and think other people's safety is less important than their own wishes.

Who is talking about an "arbitrary" law? This thread started with a report of police forces experimenting with one idea about physically stopping drones which are seen as posing a threat of danger (either through stupidity or malice) or being used for criminal purposes. I'm not sure birds of prey are the answer for all sorts of reasons, but I can't argue with the need for the police etc to have a viable method of dealing with drones they perceive as a threat.

As far as the steam train incident goes, then whilst I may have sympathy with the fixed cameraman, then I don't think there is any serious call for any law to stop the operation in those sort of circumstances? It's an example of causing annoyance, but no danger to third parties or criminal intent?

But flying over a crowded town square, or near the Empire State building, or near an active airport, or using a drone to carry contraband into a prison - surely you can't be saying people should be "free" to do that sort of thing? That the police may not like it, but should just accept it!?! Because that is what is really at the heart of this thread - not a single drone ruining the audio for another cameraman. (Possibly somewhat selfishly, but unlikely to be operating illegally or dangerously.)

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I'm curious to know if you want to outlaw any activity that could potentially cause harm, or just this one?

I also shoot video on the ground. One time, I saw a tripod that hadn't had one leg 100% tightened slowly list until it fell over just a few feet from some people. This camera/tripod combo weighed several times what a quadcopter drone weighs. Because of this, I assume you are even more staunchly against terrestrial video? Also, against the driving of vehicles, the washing of high-rise windows, the raising of a trash dumpster to empty it, any road work in which someone might be injured... basically anything, yes?

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And just where did I ever state I wanted to outlaw this activity? Really, where? If you look back I don't think you'll find a single occasion.

I did say "it makes sense to try to put (sensible) legislation in place now to limit the problem in the future" - but IMO that is nowhere near saying I want to outlaw all drone usage, end of story. There is no problem with a lot of drone flying - but there have been too many cases now where there has been a problem. The trick is to try to limit the latter (both cases of stupidity and downright criminal intent) whilst allowing the former. That is far from wanting to outlaw drone usage, period, isn't it?
Let's take driving as just one example from the above. No, I am not "staunchly against driving" - but isn't it a good example where the lawmakers fully allow it, but have legislated in many ways to try to reduce risks of injury and accident. Which includes speed limits, drink driving laws, training and licensing of drivers, car specs to aid safety (air bags etc), let alone trying to design road layouts to try to reduce accidents.

It doesn't need to be a "ban it all" versus "no restrictions" black/white choice. It isn't with driving, and it needn't be with drones.

And to take your example of washing high-rise windows, then I think you'll find that for such there is a raft of Health and Safety law which lays down what can and can't be done, and what equipment to be used. And if an employer doesn't go along with it, and an accident happens, their outlook in court is likely to be bleak. Same with pretty well any other industrial process.

So no. I'm not saying I'm against "basically anything". But that's not to say many things shouldn't be subject to controls. It's a question of striking sensible balances.

And classic risk analysis tries to equate risk v reward v probability v severity. Additional to that is who gets any potential "reward" versus who takes any risk. It's one matter if risk and reward apply to the same person (as may be the case for an extreme sportsman) quite another if one person gets the reward, another takes the risk. And in the case of drones, the "reward" is fundamentally to the operator, the "risk" is to others.

So if someone wants to race a car at high speed on a track with others, that's one thing. If they want to race on a public road, it's quite another.

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Lets just say there are people who'll do dumb or criminal activities with drones, just as they will with laser pointers, Legislation and regulations set the boundaries for the use of these and when you need special clearances to exceed these boundaries.

The new drone users tend to be rather different to the traditional model aircraft operators, who are a small group that invests a lot of time into their hobby. Unfortunately, if you have larger numbers you tend to also have a larger number who lack a sense of responsibility.

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Drone near-misses prompt calls for plane strike research - BBC News

I think the main point is in the last sentence - the lithium batteries. The presence of a solid object with sharp corners and containing a highly reactive material has not so far been taken sufficiently into the risk assessment as far as aircraft are concerned.

Unlikely to do much harm to a steam locomotive though, and I am not sure how upset genuine enthusiasts would be if an errant drone took out one or two of the idiots who trespass on 125mph main lines to take photographs and end up causing huge delays, as happened the other day. :-)

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So hopefully the Eagle is to be warned of the dangers in eating the drone's battery after they have downed their "prey". But alas the battery is probably the only tasty bit.

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Drone hits Flying Scotsman on North Yorkshire Moors (From York Press)

A number of points to note there, relevant for the UK at least. Any doubt about what the attitude of the British Transport Police is to incidents on heritage lines now removed - CAA rules apply.

Wonder if it was the same person as in the video I linked.

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reminds me of those roadrunner cartoons where the coyote is not looking where he's going because he's focused on the prey

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This "Click" (BBC tech programme) is all about drones, including the eagle.

BBC iPlayer - Click - 26/03/2016