CitiDisk DV: So far, so good
 

Since most of the DTD discussion here seems to focus on, well, Focus, or MCE, I thought I'd post my experiences with the lesser-known CitiDisk DV drive in case anyone is looking at getting one.

So far I'm reasonably pleased. I've got the drive and my DVX-100 talking to each other nicely. The drive responds to the camera controls appropriately, depending on the DVX's DV Control settings. I successfully changed the Citidisk's default write format to raw DV, and I had no problem mounting the drive to my desktop or importing the clips into Final Cut Pro. The drive is not camera-mountable, but it does come with a sturdy belt pouch that leaves room for the Firewire cable, so that looks like it's going to work out well. There aren't a lot of "frills" features: it will record from a tape playing in the camera in VCR mode or feed the last recorded clip back to the camera monitor, but that's about it. No worries for me; I don't need much beyond basic recording.

So what's not to like? A few things. One, the documentation is written in thick Engrish, which is funny when it's for a cheap VCR but not so funny when it's a very important and expensive piece of equipment. There are several different models of Citidisk but only one manual, and the manual often does a poor job of delineating which procedure is used with which model. This is especially true of changing the unit's write format; I did it successfully, but I wasn't sure at all until I actually got the clips on my desktop and looked at them. Finally, the enclosure has a slight curve that prevents the AC adaptor plug from seating firmly in the jack.

On the whole though, I'm satisfied and I think this will prove to be a useful little device. I'll be using the unit extensively this week and next, and I'll post a followup to let you all know how it behaves in the field.

Thanks for your report Dan!

Thanks Dan,

Please keep us posted.

Here is — a bit later than I had intended — a report on using the CitiDisk DV in the field.

Background: I work for a publisher and was charged with videotaping portions of our semiannual sales conference. I had to tape both new product launches (basically dog-and-pony shows held in a hotel ballroom) and one-on-one interviews with some of our authors. I shoot with a Panasonic DVX-100 and brought along a Powerbook for editing.

How did the Citidisk do? Not terribly, but not great either.

The worst "incident" was that I actually lost one of the clips I shot; that is to say, it was there on the disk and, when I went back to look for it, suddenly it wasn't. I won't blame this totally on the component because I can't shake the feeling that I did something to cause this; I didn't trash the file, but I was moving stuff around in the Finder and something might've got renamed or what have you. The fact that I didn't also have tape coverage of this shot is, of course, entirely my own fault. Nonetheless, I do feel the unit let me down in this instance; I know how to handle data and hard drives and this was definitely not a typical glitch.

The other major beef I had was changing the mode with which the Citidisk talked to the camera. The documentation didn't explain this, but it seemed as if whatever DV mode I set in the camera when I started shooting was the one I was stuck with; if I started out running the Citidisk manually and then re-set it to synch with the camera's shuttle control, it didn't take. Working around this was pretty simple — I just ran the Citidisk manually the entire time — but it's not the kind of thing you want to have to deal with, particularly because the Citidisk's "display" consists only of three colored LEDs. If there were an LCD telling me exactly how the unit was set and what it was doing, it wouldn't have been as much of an issue.

The only other issue I had was something I didn't even notice 'til I got the footage back home. I set the unit to shoot in native DV, and when I imported the clips into Final Cut, the audio needed rendering when I got it in the Timeline. The rendered audio then picked up numerous pops that weren't present on the original recording. So I opened the DV clips in Quicktime Pro, exported the audio track to AIFF, then combined the video and the AIFF track in Final Cut to get clean sound. Weird. Is this a quirk of DV I just don't know about? Next time I use the unit, I'll try shooting in Quicktime MOV format and see if that does the trick.

I also noticed that when I was working with clips from the Citidisk in FCP on my PowerBook, the program would invariably crash if I drag-and-dropped more than one clip in the Browser window. This doesn't happen on my PowerMac though so I chalk this up to a hardware issue, not a Citidisk issue.

Well, it probably sounds like I'm not too satisfied with this unit, and in a way I'm not. Unfortunately, I needed to get something quick (I only had a few weeks' notice that I was to do this) and the FS-4 wasn't out yet, so this is what I got. That being said, the unit performed quite well the vast majority of the time. The clip segments (the unit records video in 8.5 minute chunks) matched perfectly, the disk worked acceptably with my PowerBook on the road (though editing on an 800Mhz PB is no picnic) and the footage it shot was clean and with no dropped frames. So while I wouldn't per se recommend the Citidisk DV, I can say that if circumstances compel you to use one, or you find you can get one super-cheap, it's an adequate solution provided you familiarize yourself with its quirks.

Maybe next year I can get the FS-4 ...

Thanks Dan,

Finally, a voice about anything else but the FS-4.

I think you should be capturing to QT DV, if that is an option on the Citidisk, not RAW (I'm not sure what you mean by native DV). Your audio problem sounds like it might be a frequency or bit rate issue. Make sure that FCP's sequence is set to the same frequency as that of the captured clip 48 kHz 44.1 kHz. And check that the bit rates are the same as well.


Cheers,

CitiDisk HDV recorder!
 

Hey, I did a search on here and didn't see anything about this recorder:

"CitiDISK HDV is powerful, lightweight, portable and, with its internal rechargeable battery, it connects directly to HDV/DV camcorders and captures HDV/DV footage to its miniature high-capacity hard drive and to tape simultaneously - directly from the camera's FireWire port into your choice of file-formats (.M2T, .MOV, .AVI, .DV and others). When done shooting, set your camcorder to VCR mode to "QPLAY" the last scenes on the viewfinder or simply plug it into your computer's FireWire port and edit/play directly on the digitized video at anytime."

http://www.shining.com/products/tota.../citidisk_hdv/

Looks like this is a great tool.
Can't seem to find a price...think about 800 USD with a descent hdd.

That sounds extremely interesting. I notice that it uses FAT32 - I wonder if that means there is a limiting file size. It appears to be priced in the $600 - $800 range with an extra $290 for a pocket adaptor. It's not clear to me exactly what the battery setup is.

Andrew

Andrew, where did you get that pricing? I looked everywhere! Got a link? They say they're on the Apple store site online, but I can't find them.

I see the prices on the online store, but only for the DV models. Can we assume that the HDV is in the same neighborhood?

Seems a bit expensive. About twice what I think I could justify. But it certainly would change the way dailies were done for indies.

I looked in the online store and made the possibly wrong assuption that the pricing applied to the HD model as well (on the basis that it is still the same bit rate which is being transferred and since no other models were mentioned).

Andrew

Yes, FAT32 has a file size limit of either 2 GB or 4 GB, depending on how the
firmware writers implemented certain stuff. So this should mean it is splitting
files if you go over that amount.

The reason many (all?) such devices use FAT32 is that it can be read by
Windows, Mac and Unix/Linux machines without any problems. At the moment
it is the only cross platform file system (unfortunately).

p.s. yes I know some systems can READ ntfs as well (besides Windows).

So on this recorder the files will not be split into "scenes" like when you import from tape with cineform hdlink it will split them into files anytime you pressed the record button...??
It is much easier to work with for me at least rather than 1 big file....!
Gabor

But for the FX1, the compression would still be the same, right? It's not a less compressed format, is it?

Such devices always record the file as it is coming in. The most they do is
add a wrapper format around it (like AVI or QuickTime). Quality will not be
degraded!

I emailed the site that makes these to suggest they contribute to the thread. They emailed back:

HI Andrew,
thanks for passing the information about CitiDISK HDV discussion. ....We are going to support both HDV/DV and DV only models with the $100.00 difference for both 80G & 100G hdd models. ....One of the reason that we did not release CItiDISK HDV yet due to many other HDV editing software are still in beta testing.

Andrew

Citidisk HDV?
 

I noticed that Shining is advertising that their Citidisk can record HDV.

Unfortunatly, their web site doesn't really make a very trustworthy impression, with it's mumbo-jumboish explination of features, and the use of dinglish.

http://www.shining.com/

I wonder what language the original product description was written in.

CitiDisk HDV or FS-Pro4 HD - Canon XL-H1 support?
 

Does anyone know if either of these will work with Canon XL-H1?

Specifically:
1. all modes (24f/30f/60)
2. accurate timecode that is also on the minidv tape

Anybody?

- ShannonRawls.com

called them today.

Yes, it supports ALL modes of the XL-H1 HDV & DV formats

NO TIMECODE

NO HDV PLAYBACK IN CAMERA (yet)

CitiDISK HDV first impressions
 

Hey Everyone,

The citidisk 100gb HDV model came today and I got a chance to play with it a little...needless to say I need to exchange it - i'll get into that in a minute.

From everything I read about this thing I was expecting it to come in crappy packaging, look like crap, etc...surprising the device is very nice and feels solid and strong. It is not at all noisy, does not get hot, weighs next to nothing and is overall tiny - so small I could mount it on my GL2s handle and still have room for my items including a wireless reciever on my shoe mount. I am still going to try to make a bottom mount for it.

The instructions were actually relatively easy to follow and not as bad as I thought they would be.

I charged the unit up and got ready for some testing - first thing you need to do - there is a little tiny switch in the back that you need to flip with a pin or pencil tip which tells it the internal battery is on. I do not know if you power off the unit if you need to switch that switch off everytime to tell it to turn the battery off or what, I dont think so - I think its meant for saving the battery when you arent using it for a long time, but I will have to look up that info - anway - I switched it to on and then the switch broke right off - first reason for an exchange.

Connecting it to my GL2 was simple and I started manually recording. I recorded random things only for a few seconds and used the Qplay button to play them back - worked great, but my qplay button sticks a little - doesnt effect the unit but another reason for an exchane (all the other buttons work no problem).

Next I wanted to test controlling the recording with my camera - for whatever reason I cannot get this to work. I have tried a few different things but nothing is working - I decided it was time to maybe flash the devices chip.

I went to the website, dled the stuff I needed and it claims it worked however I cannot see a hardware version in my program, so maybe the flash job or file was botched....

Anyway - it still records manually fine. Test 2 was recording an hour of footage then editing some of it.

I think due to the flash problem, it created a problem with my files I captured. I filmed for an hour straight so that would mean approximately 6-7 small files because of the fat32 limitation. I copied these files down to a local drive and imported them into premiere pro.

First thing I did was grab some random clips and put them together to form a small sequence and used some effects from my matrox rtx100 to see how that went...all that worked great, no problem....then I noticed an issue...

The first clip in the series I captured on the citidisk was fine - proper time code and worked perfectly...all the rest however showed bogus times - they ranged from 20 minutes to 45 minutes - and I only recorded for a total of an hour! All those clips with the messed up time code work - however when you get passed 9 or 10 minutes they freeze. I edited them down and put them in order and they do flow seamlesly but there is no way in hell I am doing that for an entire long straight shoot.

I honestly believe its due to a botched flash upgrade, or maybe I just need a new upgrade. I emailed the company for an RMA so I can test a new unit out so we will see what they say about my issues (maybe I did something wrong).

My overall impression;

Pros;
Price
HD Space
HDV
Size of unit

Cons;
Well my unit arrived damaged and the file issue I am having - but maybe its just a bum unit.

I will definitely give them another go around because I am impressed that it even did what it did so far lol.

Let me know if you have any questions!

-Matt

AWESOME REPORT!

I'd like to see a report in HDV mode.

- ShannonRawls.com

Thanks Matthew for keeping us posted.

Hope to hear from you again when you get the next unit.

Well,

I still have the old unit just because they are closed until next week and they told me to hold on to it and play around with it if I wanted and send it back next week.

Anyways - I have recorded several hours of video and the thing works pretty damn well - but it still does the thing with the clips when you shoot continuously for more than about 9 minutes where the first 2gb clip works perfectly, but then the next one is 2gb in size but it shows its 18 minutes long, but the first 9 minutes or so only work, then the next clip in the series is the same, but now 27 minutes in length and it keeps going up. If I edit the dead air out of each clip it synchs up with the previous clip perfectly and seamlessly so it sort of works. The Tech support is not sure what the issue is, possibly firmware - same thing about the camera record button triggering the hard drives record button.

I am happy to report that the Tech Support has been good to deal with. They have returned my multiple emails to them in a timely fashion and seem to care about getting this device right - so thats a good sign.

I probably wont have my new device for a few weeks because I will send mine back next week - then I am off to california and vegas for a week so it will hopefully be in my hands for when I return.

I will keep you all posted - but I still think this device has some great potential if they can smooth out the little bugs - so far I am still impressed.

-Matt

hi matthew,
not sure whether this would be of any help. the last time i was given a chance to try one of the citidisk harddisk recorder, i remember that you need to have a tape load in the camera to be able to trigger the unit from the camera itself. the tape and the harddisk will roll together. does not serve the word on "going tapeless". just my observation.

Thanks for the advice - I have tried that...I actually truly believe its a bad device I have, so they are sending me a new one when I send this one back (tomorrow).

When recording as RAW DV it worked PERFECTLY! but now the drive does not work at all...so between the other recording issues, etc, I think its just messed up. When I get the new one and have time to test it I will report back.

-Matt