DVinfo interested in subforum about scriptwriting?
 

Hey,

I had a question for Chris, other moderators, but also members here: I know there is a forum about Independent Filmmaking, but is there interest, from people here to have a subforum about writing scripts or not?
We have a forum about sound, light, books, cameras,... but not about stories.
I would be pretty interested, but there should be many people wanting it before it could be released, IF that's the case. I just want to poll some opinions here about the subject.

Best regards,

My personal opinion is that though it is an important topic to many of us, there wouldn't be enough traffic to justify creating a new subforum...I think it's more of a "thread-sized" topic that would tuck nicely in the existing Techniques for Independent Production forum.

I'd personally really like to see more interest in that topic here. The techical stuff is great, and needed, but the script is where it starts. So you have my vote.

There are some other great place for that too... I frequent www.TVWriter.com and always get good advice there. Larry Brody, who's written for about 50 different TV shows, runs the operation. He is very interested in new media development and would love to have some more people on that site who have some production experience as well as an interest in good writing.

Also, check out www.celtx.com for free scriptwriting/preproduction/collaboration software. They also offer script hosting services.

dvinfo does not attract those kind of people, I am afraid. Start your own thread in an appropriate forum, get the ball rolling. We are right behind you.

I don't know that its strictly true the DVinfonet doesn't attract "those kind of people". I happen to be one of them. I consider myself primarily a storyteller. I enjoy writing screenplays, and have won numerous awards and optioned two of my feature scripts.

And I hang out here.

Half a dozen people won't cut it, if you ask me. The forum structure is, let's face it, equipment-centric. If you want a discussion on screenwriting, you have to set up a system that enables people to submit screenplays. Like photo-gallery for writing.

Since I sold the last of my video equipment I've been spending most of my creative time writing. Actually, I'm a moderator at the CeltX forums now. However, I do skim DVInfo.net all the time. If anyone wants to discuss screenwriting, there is activity over there.

Seems like this comes up every year or so, and the general feeling is that this forum can't be all things at once, and should concentrate on hardware, software and shooting techniques. Personally, I'd love to see a screenwriting group in here, as all of the other forums I've checked out are very poorly moderated (haven't checked yours yet Keith). One thing I think it would accomplish is encouraging the technical and creative sides to find mutual ground. A lot of times filmmakers regard the script as just the jumping off point for their own ideas, and feel no particular obligation to treat the writer's work with respect. On the other hand, you have writers who think every little comma is gold or something. Ideally, I think both processes should evolve organically together in the creation of project. I consider myself primarily a writer, but learning the technical side has greatly changed my writing. I have a much better understanding now of how a scene will play out. I don't think the two disciplines are that much different actually, both are crafts more than they're art.

Marco I'm actively seeking a good screen writer who is willing to work for deferred payment (points). I know what you mean about how writers are treated, but I view them as the cornerstone of the entire film. A strong one and you have the potential for a great film, a weak one and the rest isn't worth the time. (I get "Fade In" every month). I'm not a writer, but I know great writing when I read it.

Interesting comments about being unhappy with the web sites that already do discuss screenwriting. Do you guys think a screenwriting forum moderated in the no-nonsense DVi style would fill a need that isn't otherwise filled elsewhere -- for enough writers to make it worth it?

DVi usually waits for a groundswell of support for a new (non-camera) topic before investing the resources into a new forum. But if you think the "build it and they will come" approach would work here, I'm sure Chris would give it fair consideration.

There's definitely a need. Hard to say if there's enough interest to support it here. People do keep asking about it though. Like I said, count me in.

I think there are as many hobbyist, indie filmmakers as there are screenwriters who are starting out. I know every week or so someone on craigslist is asking for a screenwriter to help out.

One challenge I've found personally is that it is hard to write a short script for most beginning screenwriters. From my experience, most of the screenplays I've seen posted are feature-length. The other part of that is that many shorts are aimed at contests which require writing on the spot in collaboration with the director. For that most filmmakers would go with people they know rather than advertise for it.

All: what are the parameters of a *good* screenwriting forum that you feel are missing from the ones you've seen?

I would look at it as way for screenwriters to advance their craft, not so much as a place to solicit or offer services, although that would be cool too, wouldn't it?

It would be difficult to deal in a lot of specifics about works in progress because writers, almost to a person, are a paranoid lot. Posting a log line on the Internet for a script you haven't written yet wouldn't be a very smart thing to do anyway, paranoid or not. Maybe some feedback could be done off list, with more general comments made online in a way that doesn't give too much away.

I would also see the new forum as a place to discuss strengths and weakness of scripts from popular movies, style rules, tips on marketing, getting an agent, and so on. People could also share their experience of watching their work get made. It's really weird to see your words coming out of somebody else's mouth for the first — surest way to find out you're stuff isn't as good as you thought.

My problem with pretty much every (public) site on screenwriting is that the topics always devolve into pettiness and arguments. I find the forums at the otherwise excellent www.wordplayer.com to be unnavigable as well, especially the way people abuse the subject line as the sole method of replying. So annoying!

I guess my question is how a new forum would be any different from the others. I know you speak of the DVInfo.net moderation... My moderation on celtx came about because so many people had very basic questions on screenwriting - basic enough that I could answer them. But, like DVInfo.net, people came originally because of the software tool.

I haven't visited the other forums about screenwriting (I am at the moment, opening the websites) but for instance: at DVXuser you have that kind of board, and while I like DVXuser, I like DVinfo more, because I know more people (even only via their names), it's better moderated, I - personally - like the atmosphere here better and the moderation.
So I would just like it to have that all in the house, if you understand what I mean, and writing is a pretty important component of the filmmaking proces.
But I also fully agree that there should be much interest, counting the energy that it takes for moderators and such.
I understand both views on the subject (pro and contra) but I count myself at the pro side.

EDIT: I'm now looking at that Celtx program-website and it looks very promising and interesting! I'll give it a detailed look later, I've now downloaded the program.

Having decent moderation would be one big draw for the forum over the other sites. Another might be the quality of the posts. I think most people who would participate in a screenwriting forum at DVInfo would have a fairly realistic idea of what they need to accomplish with their scripts and what they are going to do with them after they are finished. People posting to the forums at purely screenwriter Web sites seem to be mainly dreamers tryng to come up with a "Lethal Weapon" clone or something. Nothing wrong with that, but it's a completely different vibe.

Marco, I think that would be an important distinction you brought up.

Perhaps if the subforum was labelled to focus on indie screenwriting so the wider scope screenwriting is filtered out.

I agree on the moderation and on the real-names. I forgot about that. It certainly does cut down on the aggravation of battles between anonymous people. I've had my share on other screenwriting boards I will not name here.

As always, if there's enough of a demand from our members then we'll do it.

I'd like to see a screenwriting section on here, too - I come from the superstore generation, and I like to get all my goods under one roof!

Aside from Moderation and real names, what would be the format be? DvInfo is mainly a tech oriented place. Would it be generally about screen writing or different forums for different tools (Celtx, Screen Magic, Final Draft...). As much as I like DvInfo, I think most here would come under the wanting to make the next SciFi,Action Lethal Weapon type stuff. Just read through the forums dealing with what people are watching and talking about in regards to movies in general.

Not being negative, just wondering how it would really fit.

Maybe people wouldn't have to post their script in a format, but just tell them some ideas or struggles or options, and hear what some reactions are and feedback.
You don't have to post a script to talk about scriptwriting :-)

But seeing as there isn't very much reaction on this thread, I don't think the subforum will come through. It's not a problem, I just though it would have been nice.

Best regards,

There have been a fine number of threads floating around about giving feedback on certain scripts. I know that I've participated in quite a few over the years. There are many types of questions that can come up:

- Will you read and comment on this specific script?
- What software should I use for writing?
- How can I show that someone is lying, without saying it?
- How should I format my title page?
- Why does everyone capitalize character names when they first appear?
- What did you think of the Spiderman script? (not movie)

I think it would be a nice addition. So far, not so many people go there in this forum, but part of that could be that it isn't really nurtured. In 20,000+ users, there have to be more than a few who are more interested in how to develop a character than in how to avoid chromatic aberration. I'm one.

I'm interested in a script writing forum.

I agree that it is a craft. As in any craft, there are lots of writing situations that many have no experience with and would like to gain from the experience of the community. Just like the other forums here.

As a non writer, when someone asks me about it, anymore I tell them to download celtx and just start writing. Or if they have MS Word, download free templates and just start writing, using spell checking and minimal grammer checking. Get the Chicago Manual of style and a thesaurus if you need help, but just keep writing.

From what I've seen, and read, it takes a long time to get any good at it. Even if you are talented.

What I don't tell them is to go out and buy Final Draft or Movie Magic or any of the other commercial programs, because they won't make you a succesful writer, just writing makes you a succesful writer, and living and experiencing life itself.

Now...how could we expand on that?

My entry into the dv world was first as an actor, then as a writer, so I could see the value of a script writing component on dvinfo. I agree that a thread would be a good place to start. There have been other threads about members struggling with ideas and they seemed to get good feedback. Go ahead and start one, I'll read it and try to post if I can.

add one vote For
 

It might not get used as much as the general discussion boards, or the tape or sound boards. However, like the book section, I think a scriptwriting section would be very useful to people.

Seems to me that of course the scriptwriting forum would be used a bit less then the others. The thing is, we are spending more time making the movies then writing about them (aren't we), so our questions/posts would have the same weight balance - right?

Anyway, just wanted to vote for the board. I've been keeping up reading this topic since it started and I'll bet others are interested but not posting a "me too" as well.

I would like to use my third post ever on this board to muscle my way into the discussion and act as if my opinion matters as much as those who have been here for some time.

And I will use this boldness to also vote in favor of a screenwriting forum.

A screenwriting forum would interest me, not because I have anything to sell but out of a long-term interest in the use of language and its offspring, writing.

A wise man taught me that Language is the agreed use of agreed sounds, and that, by extension, Writing is the agreed use of agreed signs. From that base we can imagine a thousand reasons for shying away. Why complicate the world? But the result is that when we shy away and leave a gap ... Enter the noise dubbers ... A whole profession of snappers with the most modern synthesisers who pour buckets (called tracks) of expensively sophisticated waffle and piffle (called music) onto the tape, sometimes matched even rivalled by a corresponding load of "cool" images to project what? Frequently the dearly beloved "what" of these dubbers and imagers is their own reflections (in some mirror, I mean, not their thoughts, Allah forbid.) The rise of the dubbing mafia has now well and truly overwhelmed all sorts of scripts, good and bad.

The object of screenwriting should be communication, first, middle and last.
I may not even speak your language but if I want to write your script I must know what you want to say, who you're saying it to and, above all, why? Do we need good screenwriters? You better believe it. Could DVInfo provide a sounding-board? Of course it could. DVInfo is all about communicating and sharing ideas, questions, thoughts, doubts, beliefs, opinions, guesses, experiences, feelings, fears, admiration, again and again and (as you say in the USA) then some. Did someone ask "What's all that to do with videography?" Well, if you're not framing a story, what are you framing?

The more time I spend working with film and television, the more I realise that it's all about story, story, story! Having a whole lot of fancy and expensive toys, the latest version of some super-dooper NLE and a whole lot of cool visual effects just doesn't cut it. You need a good idea - a good story to tell. I would love a forum dedicated to the story side of moviemaking. I concider myself a techie - but I'm starting to realise that making movies is so much more than technology. Count me in!

A good idea!
 

To confirm that "good ideas" are made and not born, see Musk Ox series of short stories on Per Johan Naesje's website http://www.video-film.no/snutter/muskox5.html or see all 5 recent Musk Ox videos on the Under Water, Over Land thread on this Forum. Question: How much footage from how many hours shooting over how many weekends did he delete to put together these stories from nature ... and they are all non-verbal, not a word is said!

Glenn Ford was good at non-verbals, Spencer Tracey was even better because, when he wanted to mix the verbals with non-verbals, he could speak distinctly and his timing was keen ... gave great impact to his moves, his eyebrows were particularly eloquent when they were rarely used ...

screening writing forum
 

I think this is a great idea I'm new to screen writing and I would love to have someone to talk to. Just the idea of creating a subforum for this is one of the reasons I like hanging out on this site. Keep up the good ideas guys you rock!

Darrius
I have no experience of screenwriting. I Googled "Screen Writers" and found:-

http://www.screenwriter.com/insider/news.html

They're at it professionally. Another link offered screenwriting courses and I'm sure you know how it goes.

What I have experience of is being around for 67 years and "observing human behaviour". That's no use of course unless I'm prepared to learn about behaviour and not take it for granted, like, So what's new?. And that's little use unless I'm prepared to examine my own behaviour too; I used to find that embarrsssing when I first suspected that my first and second opinions were not necessarily right. But I got used to that. The second surprise was to discover that while everybody talks a bit or a lot, most people don't say what they mean. Then I learned that some people did that deliberately and some did it carelessly and some did it by mistake. Then at age 45 or so I came across the phrase "hidden agenda". This may be old hat to you but I have found it increasingly useful for my imagination when practising "observing human behaviour" to keep in the front of my mind the idea/possibility that the speaker (or passer-by or check-out attendant or family member or whoever) has a hidden agenda in mind while saying something quite different. In story-telling (at which I have some experience) the story emerges as a good story only if the beginning does not give away the ending. The trap/difficulty here is that I may be clumsy or boring or in some way lose my audience while trying to hide the ending. That's when the term "editing" arises. I must practice editing. I must cut my script just right. It's not cutting it to the bone; it's getting it just tight enough that the listener wants to listen. This is a considerable intellectual challenge. Some people start very young practising this. (My grandson aged 26 months has a better command of english than I had at age 4 because his parents have consistently talked intelligently to him.) Many of us swagger along to the grave without ever becoming aware of it.

It should do no harm and may do you some good to sit in a public space now and again and practise ...

- discreetly observing 2 people in your view having a conservation
- visualise/imagine from their manners/behaviour/dress what their hidden agendas might be at that time, for 5 minutes
- turn away from them and jot down in a notebook what you think they might have been saying to each other (not the script, just the message/content)

It does not matter whether you get it right or wrong (and you've no way of checking, usually). What you do get out of this exercise, if you repeat it often enough, is practice and skill at imagining and visualising "hidden agendas" and practice and skill at editing your thoughts on paper as you become more critical of your writing. For variety, try visualising what's going through the mind of someone sitting on his/her own ... but do scribble it down or you miss out on the editing bit ... and you may sleep better at night after pushing your brain-power up a gear.

And if you think I must be joking that's ok by me but you've misread my hidden agenda. Good luck and let us know your findings.

Brendan,

Great information and personal insight and the link you gave looks great.

What I believe that a new forum here would provide, that seems to be missing elsewhere, is a place to ask questions about the mechanics (and possibly art) or screenwriting from a peer group. Most of the other sites are informative but don't seem to have an interaction with peers to share knowledge, only a one way path of knowledge, from the site to the viewer.

Just like the other forums here, when I want some information about any subject where my experience is lacking, I could ask. Whether it is what tools to use, where else to go for specifics, or opinions on how to approach a specific task, a new forum would fill a gap that I think is not being met by other resources on the net.

U R the greatest
 

Brendan thank you that's all I needed, but did you see my hidden agenda. If we did not create our little forum to discuss it I would never have found out how much of a master mind you are. Your name will be in my Oscar speech. Thank you.

Brendan's suggestions on observations are great, thanks. They really help with understanding and creating character, and writing dialog.

There is a huge piece of screenwriting beyond that, however, that is about structure, development and plot. As much as we would like this to come from observations, there are also just a lot of tried and true techniques that work here. They are things that experience and exchanges of information and techniques can really help.

So Chris... how many votes do we need here?

I'd be interested in a screenwriting section.

Yes, a DVI screenwriting section would be wonderful. How could it not fit in. Many people buying the 24p cameras particularly for the 24p are filmmakers. Even people using the Sony FX1 are making films. It's definitely something that should be done.

-Nate

I´m interested in share scriptwriting experiences as well.

What fuels the purchase of most DV gear? I would say it's work for hire, such as weddings, local corporate video, commercials, etc...

So if one actually wanted a script writing forum, it should actually be subdivided, perhaps into a Main forum heading such as....

The Business, and Art of Writing.......

Sub forum-1
Entertainment Screenwriting, (from short story to episodics to feature films)

Sub forum-2
Writing for a Client

One type of script writing forum is primarily about storytelling, the other is about collaborating with a client and their requirements.

Both would probably attract enough attention and be a success since this website is already very well attended.

As for the other writing websites thats have already been mentioned, it's quite possible that as these two writing sub-forums grow. other writing websites will be suggested as well for the really serious. These two new writing forums not only help regular DV members here, but hey act as a "feeder" for other writing websites as they get "recommended" by the forum members.