Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Could kill two bird with one stone. I'd be able to afford the F3 and wouldn't need to hope Canon is going to sell a $3,900 F3.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I think that post Nov. 3rd, the discussion regarding the 1DX is going to dry up somewhat (he said, dryly!)

Chris, it's fairly self-evident that the options you presented in terms of playback are all less efficient than directors being able to view the image as it is happening and keeping the shoot moving. It's well known that playback is a time-suck on set and the prevailing wisdom is that in the time it takes to check it, you can shoot another take. Sometimes it's unavoidable or specifically desirable (shooting a stunt or gag high speed and making sure you have it to possibly avoid having to do another risky or time-consuming reset). I'll also suggest that while pulling one's own focus is preferable in a few situations, most of the time it is best handled by an AC with the proper knowledge and tools, especially with a larger chip like the 1D or 5D and especially with fast primes, as many people like it. I've shot plenty of one-man band stuff over the years but I'm not fond of it with these cameras. The last thing I shot like that (for the lovely and hilarious Garfunkel and Oates) resulted in me missing focus a few times, and it makes me poopy. It looked OK on the DP6, but soft frontal light makes it hard to judge critical focus.

The current HD production workflow is actually very different from film, where the one person who has absolute say over what is or isn't in focus is the camera operator as he is watching through the optical eyepiece. Everyone else is seeing an SD video tap image that only approximates the final image. When the camera is physically separated from the operator such as on a remote head or Steadicam, nobody can say for sure if focus is dead-on. In an HD environment, a 24" engineering monitor becomes the final word on focus, and notes are given via radio from the DIT or DP watching intently from a, uh, tent. The 5D is something of a throwback given that the best it could muster when recording is a letter and pillarboxed SD image not unlike that of a film camera tap, so it is particular ill-fitting to a high-end commercial environment where the image is being scrutinized by director and agency people.

Basically what this all comes down to is that if one is used to a particular physical workflow, the DSLR presented certain challenges and almost no improvements over prior technologies, except for cost. Those who had no prior expectations were able to embrace the wonky stuff in return for the great images, and will continue to do so with the next generation of DSLR. I'm sure I'll continue to use them for additional cameras and pickup stuff here and there, but as a primary camera, I'm more than ready to move to a more conventional form factor and rely less on the tinker toy bracketry.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I get the feeling you've only ever shot on DSLRs, so allow me to elaborate:

Not true at all. The mics that come with most pro-lite cameras are usable and isolate camera noise very well. You may want a purpose dedicated mic, like a specific range of shotgun, but the built in mics will get very good ambient sound. The DSLR mics are terrible and translate all handling noise. That's why you need one for a DSLR but not for a real video camera.


It's not about size. The position of the screen on a DSLR is bad and lacks focus assist (like peaking) which most real cameras come with. The 5x/10x zoom in is disabled during recording, which is when you need it the most.

Sure if you NEVER leave the tripod with a DSLR, you don't need a shoulder rig... but for the other 99.9% of DSLR shooters... you need a rig. DSLR ergonomics are terrible. An AF100 or EX1 is much more stable... and I won't even get into shoulder cameras like the HM700.

At this point I'm getting the feeling you've only used DSLRs... Most pro cameras have built in ND filters... so no need for either a set of screw on ND filters or matte box with drop in ND filters. (some exceptions like the FS100)

There's not much difference if you've never shot on professional tools and don't know the difference. For the rest of us, they are big time savers.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

No issues with the HDMI ports on any of my cameras either, though have lost a USB port on a 5D2.

For mini HDMI adapters, I've had some luck with the ones that are about 4" long. The ones that are just a snap on plug get about 1-4 uses before they are dead.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Well, I do have shot on different cameras, DigiBeta, XL2 to name a few...

I have felt the need of better mics on the cameras I've used... But you are probably right about new cameras... For my type of filming the on board have not been good enough. Abient sound is just a filler and I have always hade the need of better sound in al my pro productions...


I did use my 7D for one year without a ex monitor, but now I got one and for me the size make a big diffrent and it would have made a big difference of other cameras I've worked on... If it doesn't for you, that's your opinion. Not on super pro cameras got a big pivot screen.

I have not worked with EX1 or AF100, but what I have read AF100 is not so good for hand hold w/out a rig (not fs100 or F3 ether). I do shot some hand hold, most low angle, so a rig would not help. I do use a rail system to hold my matte box so it is a bit more stabile than just the camera. Ofcourse if you going to shot eng style than you need a rig, but that is something you need for many new cameras...

If you can point me to a camera with build in half ND filter, it would be useful. That and for use of colour filter you need some type of filter holder. A matte box if useful for more that just filter holder, but I think you know that...

It is up to you to choose what camera that fits your type of filming. For me DSLR is the best for cost/money, I cam fill a raggsack with camera, lenses, sound gear etc and a tripod, slider and jib AND still I can take all that on my back for hiking with sleeping gear and food just by my self. The image IS good enough for me clients.
If you don't like it, don't use it, but stop bashing DSLRs!
Take the discution with Mr Hurlbut if the image is good enough for pro films...

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

A true hybrid camera will allow a photojournalist to hold it up to their face and take stills or video with sound. Sound without lens noise.
I actually thought by 2012 Canon and Nikon would have a pro product to meet this basic need. Silly me.
For all the great improvements, the 1DX is still a Frankencamera.
Or rather its a Frankencamera for the hybrid and video shooter.
Seems great for the still shooter.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I agree with the general sentiment that Canon have missed an opportunity here. If they just made sure that every camera that they make (in both stills and video division) is as good as it possibly can be I'm sure that they'd move more units overall. But I do understand how the people in the video division might be wanting to protect they're patch.

This is surely a case where you need a dictatorial CEO with a vision for the company as a whole and who is able to execute that vision without compromise, but it seems Canon doesn't have a Steve Jobs-type figure in charge.

Maybe if the video division has significant success with whatever they announce on the 3rd of November they will stop trying to protect their patch in the company and we'll get a DSLR with all the features we've been asking for.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I tend to agree with you Markus.

I have an XF300 and 5DII. I never use the onboard sound on the XF (in professional productions) except as backup/reference, and I don't rely on its LCD either (even at 4" it just isn't good enough).

So whether I'm shooting with a mid-sized camera or DSLR, either way I prefer two system sound and an outboard monitor (DP6 in my case).

I use a Vari-ND and rather like it, it provides more subtle graduations than the internal NDs on a camcorder - putting it on is no big deal.

In some instances (like when using a slider or blackbird), the DSLR has a much better form factor than the the mid-sided video camera.

For me, the big issues with the 5DII (and the reason I often choose the XF for safety) are:
* excessive moire/artifacting (by far the biggest issue for me)
* severe rolling shutter
* codec
* 4gb file limitation
* only 1 CF slot
* temporary black out on external monitor when you hit record
* only SD output to monitor

Apparently, these issues have ALL been addressed in the 1DX - to what extent with some of them (like moire) we'll have to wait to find out, but Dan's interview hints at a vast improvement. Notwithstanding what Canon reveals on 3 Nov, the 1DX looks like it could be a significant step up in video, taking care of the little issues that plagued the 5DII.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Why should we want cameras to have mics? Camera mics are too far from the talent. We should hire talent with built-in mics and XLR outputs. ;)

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I think this really depends on what you're shooting. It's not that unusual for a sound recordist to switch on the camera mic to pick up some atmos sound when filming somewhere it's impossible for them to access. For example when only one crew person is allowed in the location, or it's too confined, However, the mic being used in this particular instance would be better than I suspect you'd find on a DSLR,

The camera mic is also part of one person filming (either news or documentary), when a radio mic is commonly put on the "talent" and the camera mic gives the wider perspective.

I'm not against the camera having no mic, after all film cameras rarely had them, although they were fitted on some CP16 news cameras.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Jon: How about a built in digital recorder. No wires....

Seriously. My current work flow requires a camera sound track to match sound with. In a recent shoot with another director, I was struck at how much time was wasted in doing the traditional clap board. With digital files that can be renamed or sorted in folders for each scene and/or take, and with ability to match audio tracks with various available software, I believe it to be pointless. I am sure others will disagree and want to maintain the ritual, but I usually do not use it in my film projects.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

There are a number of techniques for putting a slate on. For drama or music videos etc the traditional clapper board is useful because it attracts everyone's attention, for other productions other methods can be used like mic taps, another way is the flash of a light that combined with a audio tone that can be used for syncing. However, to do this efficiently needs good team work and anticipation by the crew, which is the key to doing fast slates.

For most documentary type work, single system sound is the easiest.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

That's swell... but this is not a discussion about what camera is better or image quality, it's about what tools you need to add to a DSLR to give it the same features as a real video camera.

I'm sorry you took my list of DSLR add ons as a personal attack on your camera of choice, but:

1) Someone (you?) asked what tools you need to add to equal a pro video camera, I answered.

2) I've been shooting motion video on DSLRs (see my previous post on high speed still shooting) since before DSLRs shot video, and had a 5D2 probably before almost anyone on this forum. I own about a dozen 5D2s & 7Ds + AF100s, FS100s, EX1s, etc.... I'm objective about their strengths (which are few but great) and weaknesses (which are many).

3) I don't understand why you think Shane Hurlbut's opinion matters to me, or how what he thinks of DSLR images is relevant to tools needed to make them equal to video cameras. If I get tapped to direct Terminator Salvation 2, I'll phone him up for tips, but until then.... (Shane, if you're reading this, you can walk behind my actors anytime. Professionaly, we're all good baby!)

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I'm sorry for attacking you... I have nothing against you or anyone... I just got sick, sorry...

Absolutely... my question was about what gear that you need to ad on you DSLR "rig" that you don't need to ad to another camera rig... and how I see it, it is not that much different that you need to ad to a DSLR rig from a AF100/FS100/F3

It was just a response to some that think "you" need to ad so many things to make a DSLR "rig" work... And I don't, but those things that you need, is not that different from other rigs, that was my point.

I'm all good... going out tomorrow and shoting Christmas trees, not with a Christmas tree ;)

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

No worries. Personally I love a stripped down DSLR and hate dumping all sorts of stuff on top of it. Light, fast, easy. Hate "building" one up, but sometimes you have to to make it work with the shoot.

Edit, as a counterpoint, I should post a pic of my FS100 rig with all the trimmings to make IT a "pro" camera. :)

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Wouldn't it be neat to see a modular system of ordering what you want. The F3 and FS100 are already so boxy looking that looks do not matter. If you want USB get the USB port, if you need the HD SDI get that module. If you do not want the their lower resolution monitor don't order it and use your own. I wonder what kind of information comes off the sensor, In the Navy our radar systems had an information bus, you could attatch anything to it as long as it understood the language.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

As far as a bus, look at Intel's Thunderbolt used on Apple machines. A interface like that on a video camera would be great.

We'll never have access to data off the sensor. We would be horrified at all the dead pixels.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Yep, and to me that's one of the most annoying quirks of the 5D2 -- that it won't record with 5x/10x engaged. Anyone knows if the 1Dx will behave the same way?

-- peer

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

To answer my own question -- I just got an email from Dan Chung regarding this:
"With the firmware they showed us it was the same as 5d."

By the way, Chris, do we have to wait until the camera ships (in March) before the 1Dx gets its own forum? I'm asking because I think it would be nice to have some discussion about this camera prior to its release in order to maybe inspire/influence Canon to get its video right, e.g., to take full advantage of the camera's rumored 355 mbps bitrate, etc.

-- peer

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I just looked up the 1DX on Amazon, and here's the message they have put along with their availability notice:

"The EOS-1D X has not been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission. These devices are not and may not be offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained."

Don't think I've ever seen an FCC message of this sort for an announced camera.

-- peer

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I have seen it before, but only on press releases. The reason why you're seeing
it on Amazon is due to the unusually long (and for Canon, highly uncharacteristic)
lead time between the press release and the anticipated ship date. It is not all that
uncommon for press releases to be made prior to an electronics product receiving
FCC authorization. In this case, the long lead up to shipping has resulted in the
disclaimer making its way onto Amazon. The FCC process is standard operating
procedure and there isn't anything unusual going on here, except for the fact
that the camera was announced about half a year before it's ready to ship.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Yea, that makes sense, (although my first thought was that this might had something to do with the 1DX now recording up to 30 min. videos..).

-- peer

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH.

I don't know what bugs me more, that or no clean HDMI....

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Well, to me the lack of magnifying during recording is the most annoying of the two -- especially since I suspect that a record engaged 5x/10x magnifying would be easier to fix than a clean HDMI.

-- peer

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Come on... its Canon... of course its easy to fix both! They just want to sell those features to you in the next Mk II.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

It's been 2 years since the previous model. I would have thought they'd fix it in the top of the line model if it were easy. And of they couldn't fix in the top of the line, it would be a surprise if they fix it in the next Mk II which is the cut down prosumer version. A pleasant surprise however.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Apparently the 1DX will have quite a bit of extra horsepower, so hopefully it won't be that difficult to add such a feature. And since it's easier to estimate the framing of a shot than to estimate its correct focus (especially with the shallow DOF of a full-frame camera), an implementation of 5x/10x magnification during recording would be a VERY welcomed feature.

-- peer

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I see that the 1Dx LCD is 3.2" vs 3" on 5D, 1D, etc... I assume that none of the existing LCD viewfinders will work on the 1Dx then or will some do? I heard a Canon rep on one 1Dx promo video saying that the camera has phantom power on the mic input allowing for a wider range of microphones to be used on this camera. Does anyone have more detaisl on this? I like the Q menu and controls that are available while filming in Live View. The silent and touch sensitive mode for dial wheel on the back is pretty slick too.

Cheers,

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I'd love to see color peaking too but at this point, any focus assist function will be most welcomed.

Thierry.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I hope Canon adds a headphone jack on the final release of the 1Dx. This is a serious oversight. That itself and a few other crucial features found on Nikon's D4 make it quite a better choice for pro video. Not to mention that the D4 is $1,000 cheaper.

T.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I too hope that Canon got the time to put a headphone jack on the camera, but I don't think that we'll se a change in the hardware. But I really hope that they took the opertunity to work on the roadmap for the software, and I really do think they have... Coz I have not seen any new video online for a long time now...

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I really like the scale-able sensor crop choices on the D4. I have been thinking about this for years, it just makes a lot of sense. I am wondering how the image quality holds up but even at the highest crop ratio (x 2.7), the footprint on the sensor is a 1:1 pixel match to full HD 1920x1080 raster. It's not the 4K sensor of the C300 or 2K of the F3 but it still should yield very good quality.

Thierry.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I agree with Thierry. The big problem with large sensor camera's is the cost and size limitations of good lenses. To get the zoom range you need for run and gun you give up sharpness and aperture size. And the lens gets really big and heavy. Sensor cropping solves this problem. Get a good mid-range zoom with large aperture and then use the sensor cropping to achieve a greater zoom range.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I'm particularly excited by the idea of a D4 with a PIX 220/240 recorder. You'll get a Vistavision-sized sensor, 4:2:2 ProRes and XLR inputs - and all for around $8,000

By just about any measure, that's a remarkable combination.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Mark, that's exactly where I'm headed... *If* the D4 can resolve detail (and suppress moire) on a similar level to the GH2 (ie: vastly better than the previous generation of Canon DSLRs).

Surely Canon can add the 1:1 pixel crop mode and clean HDMI out to the 1Dx via firmware : they would be silly not to, even with the C300 to protect, lest people like you and I move to Nikon.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

No question the D4 with uncompressed output is a milestone for DSLRs but I would not discount the I-frame encoding option on the 1Dx. Canon was a little vague in the inital product announcement about this bitrate. Imho, I would rather have in-camera 4:2:2 with a decent I-frame bitrate than lug around an external recorder. Although the PIX recorders are perfect for DSLRs with their excellent audio preamps built right in.

I would think Canon will meet Nikon with a great internal solution or match the cleam HDMI feed. Both are going to be astounding still cameras and we will have to see about the video improvements.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

Some more info about the 1DX was published today by Canon:


-- Advanced movie shooting functions --

(1) Improved movie recording functionality
The movie recording size menu allows users to choose between the ALL-I compression format, which is ideal for movie editing, and the IPB compression format, which is better for longer recordings (Figure 5). The EOS-1D X also provides various time code settings (Figure 6), which are essential to professional video editing.

(2) Elimination of the 4 GB file size limit
On previous models, movie recording ended once the file size for one continuous shot reached 4 GB. This restriction has been removed on the EOS-1D X, so users can record a continuous clip up to 29 minutes and 59 seconds long, regardless of the file size.

(3) Reduced moiré and color artifacts
Improvements to the CMOS sensor and the image processing applied to movies have dramatically reduced the occurrence of moiré and color artifacts.

(4) Exposure control and ISO speeds
Movies can be recorded with Program AE for movies, shutter-priority AE, aperture-priority AE, and manual exposure. The highest ISO speed setting for movie recording is now equivalent to ISO 204800.


Here's the entire article:
Canon Camera Museum - Technology Hall - Technical Report January 2012


-- peer

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

What a nice camera. Canon’s EOS DSLR cameras and accessories have a long-standing legacy of providing high-quality results to professionals *in a wide range of markets.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

I had the opportunity to handle a 1DX at the Broadcast Video Exhibition in London this week. The camera feels great & very complete considering it's about two months off shipping. There is a choice between High or Low compression with the former all-I frames. There were pages of menu setup for AF for stills (the major market). Otherwise the video setup looked pretty similar to the 5DII except for 1280x720@50p (PAL). I didn't have a CF card so couldn't test recording even assuming that Canon would have allowed me to. Focusing in Live Mode by half pressing the shutter button was faster than on the 5D but Quick Mode was about the same (presumably the time to flip the mirror down & up is the limiting factor. Cranking up the ISO to 20000 & stopping down to F22 there was still a great well exposed image on the LCD screen. With such noise free high ISO available I look forward to using my favourite 24-105mm F/4 IS in even the darkest of situations.

Re: Canon USA Introduces EOS-1D X Digital SLR Camera
 

"...continuous clip up to 29 minutes and 59 seconds long, regardless of the file size."

That\'s a great plus for video shooting. I hope that they also include this in the Canon 5D Mark III. The crop mode of the Nikon D4 & D800 are also a big plus factor for those who sometimes need extra reach with telephoto lenses...something that all future DSLR cameras should provide, especially the full-frame bodies.