24F LAID TO REST: The honest answer about 24F

[Benjamin Richardson]

So what I'm getting out of this is that the red and blue ccd's are scanning (for example) the odd lines, while at the same time the green sensor is scanning the even lines, the picture is then put together? Then why would there be a resolution drop? Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Bill Pryor]

Daniel, the look of the footage I've shot (with XH A1, not XL H1) in 24F is significantly better shooting 24f than deinterlacing after the fact. The slight drop in resolution is not significant unless you compare it side by side to the exact same thing shot in interlace mode, then you would see a difference. When you shoot 24f you are getting 24 discreet frames per second (in HDV). The motion is exactly the same as film or any other 24p camera. If you deinterlace in post, you're going through your 30 frames and taking some of them out (however it's done, don't know, don't care), and the motion doesn't look the same.

[Daniel Patton]

That's good news Bill, it saves me additional time/render if I don't have to do any deinterlacing in post for an extra step in quality, we have little (to no) use for interlaced footage in any case.


Tony, no problems with Frame mode in general, we have been shooting SD for 3+ years on our XL1s 95% Frame, and it's been great. But I'm having to dig as deep as I can into the workings of the H1 since the last year all of our HD workflow has been on the JVC HD100, a great camera as well but a different beast none the less.

Funny thing is... I spoke with a tech at Canon a couple days ago and even he was not real sure what to tell me in regard to the output on the SDI as HD when set to Frame (30P or 24P). We are using the Multibridge Pro and are still having a little trouble getting HD-SDI into FCP as DVCPRO HD, without it wanting to render. As mentioned we have no use for interlaced capture, we need an HD-SDI progressive frame to pull a good key from. It's still a bit of a mystery as to what is "native" from the SDI on the H1 when set to Frame.

Peace and thanks guys!

.

[Daniel Epstein]

Daniel,
I believe the HDSDI output is 1080 60I since we had to use a Teranex converter to end up recording 24 Frames to an HDCAM from 24F HDV material. What is recorded to tape in HDV is 24F or 30F or 60I depending on the setting.

[Bill Pryor]

I should have said "24 discrete" frames per second. Although, they may be discreet too.

[Daniel Patton]

Originally Posted by Daniel Epstein

Daniel,
I believe the HDSDI output is 1080 60I since we had to use a Teranex converter to end up recording 24 Frames to an HDCAM from 24F HDV material. What is recorded to tape in HDV is 24F or 30F or 60I depending on the setting.

So you use the Teranex product to primarily deinterlace for output to HDCAM via SDI, even after recording originaly to tape/HDV as 24F, correct?

I would think that if you shot to tape as 24F or 30F then the H1 would at least allow for playback as such (Frame) via the SDI. Or is the only way to get Frames out of the Canon H1 by way of the firewire, period, end of story?

Thanks for humoring me with all these questions, but with another new camera comes new workflows... and learning curves. ;)

[Kevin Martorana]

Daniel,

We use a Convergence Connect that takes the firewire...converts it to HD-SDI.
Also allows us to controll the firewire via RS422.

Works great going into our Avid Adrenaline...

24f or 60i No problems.

[Daniel Patton]

Thanks Kevin, that's a pretty cool way to avoid the workflow pitfalls you face with HDV on the Avid I bet.

Being that we don't have anything like DNxHD in FCP or PPRO I would be forced to work in uncompressed I'm afraid. And as firewire it's still coming from 4:2:0 and would not help our keying situations anyway correct?

Regardless, do you have any good links for this, I did a quick Google search and didn't see anything that looked obvious.

[Steve Showalter]

not to jump into the mix here, I am looking to purchase a new camera. I am using a gl1 and xl1. Have been leaning towards the xl h1 and if I could get a less technical opinion on this or other camera optionI would surely appreciate it.
steve

[Daniel Patton]

Hey Steve,

Most everyone will have a strong opinion as to what they use, what you should use and why. Before it gets to that, you might want to tell us more about what type of shooting you do (on average), what the delivery format is, who are your customers (not names but like training video, weddings, corporate, etc.). And maybe an idea of your budget for video related gear, how often you update that gear... you get the idea.

Think of buying a camera in the same way you would buy a house, any good realtor is going to ask a lot of questions before you visit the first piece of property.

It may be a little off topic for this thread, but hey, it happens. ;)

Peace!