XF305 Arrived - Test Footage, Trials, Tribulations

[Steev Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Brett Delmage

Just pulled my cards out to look at them.
Data points for comparisons:
Lexar Professional 300x
32GB CompactFlash(R)
UDMA

Yeah, its still a mystery to me. I have what appears to be same cards in every way. Purchased from BHphoto 2 weeks ago.

[Steev Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Blake Calhoun

Have you done any green screen testing yet? That's probably the main thing I'm excited to see from this camera.

Green Screen frame grab - attached is a single frame export from an uncompressed capture out of the HD-SDI port into an MXO 2 into FCP - it's not showing up as a thumbnail, so be sure to click to download.

Additionally, here are 2 photoshop files containing frame exports of ProRes direct capture, and MXF (Mpeg-2) from CF card to ProRes. Included in the layers is a key I pulled using Keylight in After Effects.

http://www.holyzoo.com/content/XF305/ProRes5.psd.zip
http://www.holyzoo.com/content/XF305...tive_5.psd.zip

The bottom line is that I can't tell the difference between direct ProRes capture and Mpeg-2 to ProRes unless we're talking about lots of motion.

See the attached files showing the Mpeg blockiness in high motion areas. With all that said, for what most people end up doing with green screen, I think in-camera capture is more than good enough. However, if you're going to look at things under a microscope, find a way to capture to something better than Mpeg-2 directly.

[Nick Wilcox-Brown]

Steev,

Are you using a USB reader with a Mac? This can cause clip corruption (others have seen this) - I have come across it with still camera files and audio files, there is something about USB.

If you're on FireWire, ignore!

Are you formatting cards in camera? It is essential.

Ref Lexar: Long ago (well 5 or 6 years back), I irrecoverably lost a lot of data from several Lexar CF cards. Shortly after, I was at Canon HQ and mentioning this, was told to always use SanDisk with Canon hardware. This is a man who really knows what he is talking about. He refused to quantify his reasoning, but beside his desk was a very large cardboard box full of many hundreds of used (but current) Lexar cards. I dread to think of the value of that box.

I took good notice and have never had an issue since. YMMV, but it may help? I have absolutely no connection in any way with SanDisk BTW - I buy their cards from Amazon!

[Steev Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Nick Wilcox-Brown

Are you using a USB reader with a Mac? This can cause clip corruption (others have seen this) - I have come across it with still camera files and audio files, there is something about USB.

These errors are occurring in-camera, not in transferring from card to computer.

Originally Posted by Nick Wilcox-Brown

Are you formatting cards in camera? It is essential.

Yes, I'm formatting all cards before use.

Originally Posted by Nick Wilcox-Brown

Ref Lexar: Long ago (well 5 or 6 years back), I irrecoverably lost a lot of data from several Lexar CF cards. Shortly after, I was at Canon HQ and mentioning this, was told to always use SanDisk with Canon hardware. This is a man who really knows what he is talking about. He refused to quantify his reasoning, but beside his desk was a very large cardboard box full of many hundreds of used (but current) Lexar cards. I dread to think of the value of that box.

I took good notice and have never had an issue since. YMMV, but it may help? I have absolutely no connection in any way with SanDisk BTW - I buy their cards from Amazon!

Good to know, but I haven't had any other failures from Lexar, but I have had SanDisk failures. Go figure. At this point, its all about whatever works. Again, the Lexar 16GB CF cards are working flawlessly, as well as cheap Ridata cards. So it's still a mystery as to what is causing the errors on these 32GB Lexars. They passed block scanning with Drive Genius before I even got the XF305, and they work perfectly in the 7D and 5D without error all the way through the cards. Who knows... I'll try SanDisk if I run into more troubles with these other Lexars or I need more CF cards.

[Nick Wilcox-Brown]

Very strange - I'm out of ideas. Maybe a call with Lexar support? I seem to remember Rob Galbraith always distinguishing between cards with an without 'Rev ..' on them during his card testing. See link below.

I wish you luck!


Rob Galbraith DPI: CF/SD Performance Database

[Pete Bauer]

What the technical reason is, I don't know. But the XF specs page includes Sandisk cards up to 64GB, and omits Lexar cards larger than 16GB:

Canon U.S.A. : Support & Drivers : XF300

[Steev Dinkins]

This test is to compare the XF305 to the HVX200. The bottom line is that the sensitivity is nearly identical. So those hating the HVX200 low light response will hate the XF cameras as well. However, the darks are WAY cleaner on the XF305. I've attached 2 .mov files to demonstrate this difference in noise in the darks in low light. My apologies to people on windows - these are DVCPROHD and ProRes Quicktime files.

The following video on vimeo shows how similarly the two cameras behave in the same light with the same settings, then compares db gain boost on each one.

XF305 vs HVX200 Low Light Test on Vimeo

I have a few more tests and then I'm done with testing phase. Hope this helps people!

-steev

[Glen Vandermolen]

I always thought the HVX200, because it uses SD chips with larger pixels (then pixel-shifted for HD) than most 1/3" HD cams, was always better in low light to begin with. I know when we compared an HPX200 to a JVC HD200 it blew the JVC away in low light situations.

[Blake Calhoun]

Thanks for the green screen test. I am an A1 owner considering upgrading to the XF300. I'm very impressed with it thus far. Like the XH line before it, the XF line seems to offer a lot of bang for the buck.

[Brett Delmage]

Well, a few more data points about the Lexar 32GB cards that work / don't work.

I actually have 50 hours on my 4 300x 32GB cards now without a problem. I forgot about the hour meter in the camera.

I managed to force the "stops recording" problem tonight.

Canon U.S.A. : Support & Drivers : XF300

Canon's page that lists tested card models states that the Lexar cards won't work in slow motion modes.
So I tried that, with a frame rate of 30/60. i.e. x2 or max.

Slow motion actually works fine - until the 2GB / 5 min point and then the error display pops up, every time.

So clearly, a combination of settings / data rate to card / etc.

I didn't think 60i should be any more problem than 30p, and it also works without error, as does 24P on limited test, all at 50 Mb 1920x1080.

For my cards. YMMV and obviously does.



Brett

[Nick Wilcox-Brown]

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

What the technical reason is, I don't know. But the XF specs page includes Sandisk cards up to 64GB, and omits Lexar cards larger than 16GB:

Canon U.S.A. : Support & Drivers : XF300

Thanks Pete, I was not aware that the larger Lexar cards were not supported. If Canon don't fully support a card, then there will always be good reason, and it is better to avoid for all uses in my experience.

[Steev Dinkins]

Originally Posted by Brett Delmage

Slow motion actually works fine - until the 2GB / 5 min point and then the error display pops up, every time.

So clearly, a combination of settings / data rate to card / etc.

Interesting. Well I had only done short tests with slow motion - nothing over 5 minutes. I'll check that and will assume that all my cards will error.

I was suspecting there was a catch when this camera was announced. My first question was, "How about the 2GB file limit." And the answer was, "There's no problem." I call BS. Oh well, it's still an awesome camera. Too bad its turning out to be finicky with cards.

[Steev Dinkins]

Well, here's what's likely to be the last of my major technical testing. Yesterday I tested tweaking with custom picture profiles, especially sharpening, and ultimately I think all sharpening beyond 0 is garbage. I don't see it doing anything better than I can do in post if I decided to sharpen at all - usually I don't. Regarding all the other picture controls, I'm convinced the best starting point is the standard setting, and I'll do all tweaking in post. This isn't like the 7D and 5D that have their blacks squashed. The XF is set up right out of the box with some nice gradations in the blacks.

So the biggest concern was experiencing inconsistency in parfocal accuracy. That is, retaining focus throughout zoom range. I now believe the parfocal accuracy varies based on aperture and ND filters applied. Aperture fully open, with a subject in focus while zoomed in, there's a hint of softening when zoomed out. Furthermore, if ND filter 1,2 or 3 are applied and aperture is wide open, this phenomenon is noticeably worse. Its requiring me to re-focus when zoomed out to truly get the image sharp. Closing down past f3.2 eliminates this phenomenon and focusing is very accurate through zoom range.

With ND off, I admit, this is a nitpicky thing and it's hard to see a difference. But it means I can get a slight edge on sharpness by being this aware of this. With ND on, I think it's actually a potentially huge issue if you are not being conscious of it, because its quite noticeable. Not sure if anyone can confirm this on their camera. Its easy to replicate with any of the NDs on, fully open aperture.

Be sure to download the video from vimeo or you're not going to be able to tell the difference.

XF305 Parfocal Accuracy Test on Vimeo

That's all for now!

[Doug Jensen]

I had a 32GB Sandisk Extreme Pro choke today during some 60 fps overcranking.
From now on, I'll only be shooting with my 16GB Hoodman cards. They have proven to be perfectly reliable time and time again.

[Steev Dinkins]

Further documentation if anyone runs into this problem and issue and searching for an answer. I suppose unless you're used to Canon Camcorder remotes, you may be stumped regarding a problem with the WL-D6000 Wireless Controller for the XF300 or XF305. Seemingly all buttons are recognized by the XF305 except the Start/Stop and Zoom buttons. Yeah, after solving this problem, it seems really lame, but I had to contact Canon customer support to figure this out. Here's the answer:

"Please ensure that you push the "Record Enable" button when using the
Zoom or Start/ Stop buttons."

Which led me to ask, what on earth is the Record Enable button? It's the button just to the left of the Start/Stop button on the remote. No kidding. Geez. Ya gotta press that button at the same time when you press Start/Stop or Zoom in/out. Stupid? Yes. Obvious? It wasn't to me.