Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

Hello,

I think many like myself are thinking about getting the 6D for video instead of the Mark 3 as it is about $1000 cheaper. So I ordered one early Dec 12 for shooting video. Unfortunately I found out pretty fast that the moire and aliasing issues are so bad that the camera is unusable for video production. I sold it on eBay and now bought the Canon 5D Mark 3 instead. For taking pictures the camera is wonderful and I can highly recommend it.

To show the moire and aliasing issues I uploaded this simple clip.

Simple Test with Canon 6D - YouTube

As I thought this might be of general interest I shared it as this buying and selling costed me more pennies then I liked.

Cheers
- Andreas

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

The 6D is even worse than the older 5D Mark II for moire.

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

Very good comparison.

To be perfectly honest, I think owners of the 5d MK2 shouldn't bother upgrading the body to the MK3 ... I can't tell any significant difference in the video between the MK3 & MK2. Im sure clients won't be able to either!

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

I think these threads are always interesting. I have the mkIII and the 6D and I used to have the mkII. I see a night and day difference with the mkII and III in low light especially. But that's from actually owning it, not just looking at tests. Also, I've seen no real aliasing issues on the 6D but I never really had issue with it on the mkII either. No one notices moire and aliasing but us pixel peepers. All I know is the mkIII and 6D both live very comfortably at 6400+ ISO and that's all that matters to me for weddings. It's hard to judge the difference with any cameras in good light, it's when things get dark that the great cams shine. That's my opinion.
Bill

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

Generally that's true, but occasionally those pixel level errors create red and grey flashing roofs as in the first post that are impossible to ignore. The same can happen with any objects that have a regular pattern: brick walls, certain fabrics and so forth. While the flashing roofs could have been avoided by slightly defocusing the lens, there is nothing that can fix it after you've shot the video.

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

Did you even look at the video Andreas posted? :D Are you really considering this as a pixel peeping issue?

I do agree that most of the time alsiasing and moire is not an issue but in some occasions it can be very nasty and then it will draw all attention to it, no matter who is viewing the footage. The moire in the clip from Andreas I wouldn't even dare to show a client. You have to be blind not to see it.

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

Hi Bill,

I didn't post this little clip and my experience to be a pixel peeper.

First - I bought the 6D and I was fully aware of the test by Johnnie Behiri on Vimeo:


and I found it quite acceptable for me. At least for a $1000 difference in price. But what I saw back at home after my first shooting of a festival just made me fall of my chair. Please watch the roofs on my little clip - the are blue flickering "BLUE !" instead just plain red. Defocussing when everything is at infinity might be an option but honestly - not a very good one.

Second - I did post this here just to help everyone to make an informed buying decision as I believe a lot of people are very interested in this camera.

Overall I really loved the camera. Very solid build, good menus. Everything besides that moire and aliasing. I was really sad to let it go.

Cheers
Andreas

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

I think Bill would rather just go out and shoot instead joining this silly discussion, I bet he finds us funny as well ;)

Johnnies video looks very good, you do see some occasional moire and aliasing but I guess the trick is to work around it, only in some cases it's not possible and I must say the sample clip you posted is about as worse I have seen so far. I bet Canon deliberately crippled the camera to protect the 5DIII sales.

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

I shot with a 7D for years and edited 5D mk2 footage alongside it. I had seen a little aliasing here and there but no big deal, I used a different camera when it mattered. Then it happened...
I was doing a shoot for a corporate client where they had me steadicam the 7D down a carpeted hallway. BAM...I learned what moire was. The shoot was a total loss for that day and I had to go back with my broadcast camera to fix it. Luckily I didn't have crew or actors to pay for the extra day of shooting and the client was understanding and appreciative that I wouldn't let such a problem go onto their video.
That was the day I made the decision to upgrade to the 5D mk3 and always have my broadcast cam in the car if the 5D mk3 showed any sign of moire.
I had the mk3 the first week it was released and have not seen any issues. As a goofy test I even tried a quick greenscreen shoot and the aliasing is so minimized on the mk3 that it could actually work in a pinch. (the 7D and mk2 were horrible on green screen)
So the pixel peepers aren't the only ones who can see the moire issues. I've seen it several times on local commercials that were shot on dslrs and even my wife says "why is that guy's suit dancing around like that?" Aliasing is a pixel peeper thing though.

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

Noa,
I do think it's a funny discussion. I shot many a brick wall with the mkII and I always saw the moire, but clients never noticed or said anything. Just in case, I'll be sure to use the mkIII for any tight patterns. I used to see moire using video cams all the time. I still think you guys are being a bit persnickity about it and I may be blind, but blissfully so. :-)
Bill

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

Here's my test of the 6D performing in Low Light with some moire issues

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

Scott
What was your conclusion here? Looks pretty good to me

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

The Moire and aliasing is definitely worse in 1280 x 720 30p. I need to do a test at f4 so as to keep a wider range of focus. But I must say that I purchased the 6D for juicy eye candy close-ups and shallow DOF stuff. I have a Sony EX3 and a Panasonic AC130 for when I want to shoot power lines and brick walls...Ha! At 1080 30p the moire and aliasing is much less noticeable. I love the 6D, now all I have to do is spend $$$ on some more lenses. Below is some footage for a spot I shot recently with the 6D at 1080 30p 50mm f1.4

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

Can you adjust ISO, Aperture, Sound on the 6D while recording?

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

Everything but sound and white balance.

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

Sound is in all honesty the one thing I am consistently adjusting at weddings. Having to stop recording to increase the input level would be a little bit of a nightmare for me.

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

The only one of the canons you can adjust sound on while recording is the mkIII unless you use ML...
Bill

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

I want to make short clip to show the Moire pattern on 6D. Let me tell you, I tried many things in the house but couldn't find any that shows lots of Moire. I tried fabric, screen door, texture wall... Then see some on my luggage. So I did this test.

I noticed the pattern is less obvious switching from Standard picture profile to Neutral. And it gets even less when setting Contrast all the way down to -4 in Neutral. It's very difficult to see it here because of the mp4 artifact.

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

Just curious - did you try shooting with the sharpness slider all the way to zero and sharpening it up in post? This is what I do with the 5d3.

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

If we look at resale value of the 6D and the MK3 would the MK3 not be a better investment all round?
The price of the MK2 is still quite high but I image the 6D will drop quite considerably over the next year as the Rebels do.

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

This is an issue for me as well. I know the downsides of going "auto" but I did some tests and found that if you record in "auto" with the attenuation turned on it does a much better job of evening everything out. It seemed to get rid of the wild swings, and wind noise. I used a SONY wireless mic. I am not an audio expert and attenuation me be more of a feature used with line inputs, but all I can tell you is that it sounds loads better recording in "auto" with the attenuation turned on.

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

I could be wrong but I though the 5d MarkIII and the 6d shared the same image processor. The MarkII beats the 6D as a stills cam but not in quality of video. The MarkIII also has a headphone jack which might make it worth the price. I have a 6D and love it, but i do miss the headphone jack.

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

I'm using RODE VideoMic Pro. It has three levels audio switche, -10db, 0db, and +20db. The +20db is created for DSLR. With such, just set the audio level on DSLR one notch above zero. Then use the microphone's +20db for the amplification.

Re: Moire and aliasing issues on Canon 6D
 

The processors might be the same but the "processing" is different. The 5D3 removes aliasing. The 6D does not.