I see that as a Blu-ray problem... which in my opinion the Blu-ray consortium really needs to fix.

Cell phone cameras? What the junk? Dude, all I am saying is, to be able to have this as an "add-on" to what they're already doing is gonna be awesome for them and any photographer. To be able to throw video at client, along with sweet photos is not fair. Haha. (if there are two shooters, obviously). Not to mention, it also ties in with the promo work they do for their and site and blog, thus meaning they don't have to invest in a camcorder, but instead they can us an SLR which they're already familiar with. If you can't get it, that's beyond me. There is just... unlimited possibilities with this cam for anyone who works in photography, plain and simply. Yes, 30f is a drawback. But it's a minor drawback. An average client isn't gonna notice the difference between 24p and 30. I can kind of see why see Canon chose 30f as the fate rate. I could elaborate on this more, but you get the picture.

30p to 25p??
 

i need a new DSLR and am considering the canon 5dmk2 over the nikon d700 because of its video capabilities, despite the fact that the 5d has an inferior AF.

now, the 5d shoots at 30p. that's useless except for computers and was probably done on purpose to protect canons videocams. is there a way to convert 30p to 25p (pal) and dont get gargabe out of it?

Shake perphaps?

Simon,

If you are still following this thread I'd like to try and explain the logic of these developments from Canon and Nikon to you. I'd also like to say how much I've appreciated your knowledge of XDCAM over the past couple of years.

Cameras like the 5DmkII and to a lesser extent the D90 are aimed at people like me, I know this because I've spent time talking, drinking and dining with to the people who actually make these cameras, most recently at the Beijing Olympics.

I like many other photojournalists are now being expected to shoot still and video, not just low quality crap, but broadcast quality. Whilst I agree this is practically impossible to shoot stills and video in some fast situations, there are many others when it makes sense, especially if you are the only person at the right place at the right time. My fellow Guardian photojournalist Sean Smith's recent RTS award for work in Iraq is proof of logic behind this. For international news agencies like Associated Press, Reuters, AFP and Gettyimages it all makes sense too. Associated Press for instance just started kitting photographers out with Sony EX-1 cameras, now they might not need to. You may not like multiskilling, but if you are asked to do it I believe in doing it to the best of your ability, that and I actually like making video (though I prefer stills)

Currently in addition to my Nikon cameras I have to choose which video camera to carry. I own a DSR-500 with 2 lenses, 2 Sony EX-1's with a Brevis, in addition to Canon HV20 and 30. Hopefully in the future I might only need to carry the D-SLR bodies. Trust me I understand that ergonomics of D-SLR's don't really work well for video yet (my fortnight with the D90 has taught me that), but I think it's solvable with a little ingenuity. My Redrock micro shoulder mount can be used with a HDMI monitor I think.

Where I think Canon may have slipped up wih 30p this time is not understanding that photojournalists will want to have the option of suppling not just web but also PAL and NTSC broadcast. Whether this be a cat up a tree for the local cable channel or a dramatic war video you need the option to deliver to broadcasters. In my bureau I sometimes work with C4 and ITV news, 30p just doesn't work for me.

It seems 30p is just too much hassle unless someone can find a simple solution. Hopefully the next generation of pro D-SLR's will rectify this as well as include proper audio controls , even lower base sensitivities (to make up for lack of built in ND), zebras and peaking, and tilting LCD screens/proper viewfinder options.

Dan

For frame rate conversion do we think this will work? EDIROL VC-300HD Multi-format Converter :: Specifications

Dan

Dan,

I'd checkout TMPGEnc Xpress 4.0. I can convert pretty much anything into anything. It's a $100 piece of software.

peter, how good is this piece of software, can it bring HD footage from 30fps to 25fps (PAL, either progressive or interlaced) with acceptable results? it looks too cheap to me, more than for the amateur (but what do i know).

Havent used Shake, but i guess converting a finished short clip (say 10 minutes) in "optical flow" might take A LOT of time and a fully charged monster octo powermac.

Hold on a second here, Im just after realising something.
Are we here in pal land not due a pal version of this camera?

That would be a first.

I cant imagine canon excluding half (very approx) the world simply because of frame rates.

I personally wouldn't bother with this camera if every clip needed to be converted.

I agree - but will photographers be able to put together a "good enough" product to cut us out of the loop?

The author states: "Max - I don’t plan on shooting a single assignment solely with stills ever again… shooting video with is camera over the weekend ranks up there as one of the most fun things I’ve ever done in my career… I can’t wait to get my hands on this camera again…"

While I am glad that photographers are realizing how fun and cool it is to become a filmmaker, I don't want them to realize it too much!!!

jones

Interesting stuff to say the least.

I would love to see the video. I emailed offering hosting for the video. I have seen the others and think its pretty amazing stuff but I won't be selling my XL-H1a anytime soon :)

There really is no PAL model, just a 30p version globally. That said the Nikon D90 is 24p globally.

Dan

30p works just fine in a 60i container.....its just duplicated fields......so, stuff shot on 30p can easily be put on blu-ray...and it should look identical to the 30p....

"There really is no PAL model, just a 30p version globally. That said the Nikon D90 is 24p globally" - Dan


They need to see to that.

Just out of curiosity, which would make a better transfer to 25p,- 24p or 30p?

I thinks it's more the opposite. Frame grabs produce very usable images. The photo editor just runs through the video and picks out the peak moment. Probably need a new name for the guy sent out to bring back images.

I expect the next one series to include a larger video feature set. It's very Canon-like for their first model of something new to have a modest feature set but have very high IQ. The first all Canon DSLR was the D30. It produced great 3mp cmos images, but otherwise the camera was pretty low end.

It seems we will also see a single cmos camcorder as an XL replacement. That will probably have all the expected video functionality plus improved ability to shoot stills.
It all about market segmentation. We'll need to see how Canon makes products for different end users with this newer tech. Canon absolutely has target markets for the 5D. Just read the literature. It's not at all surprising that they would not consider broadcast video in a $2600 DSLR.

If you're an XL user and but don't see what you do in the 5DII, you can be sure you will see a better fit in future products.

There's an odd split in the initial opinion on the 5DII. Cinematographers and photographers mostly say "cool!". Videographers see the 1000 missing pieces they would need to make the 5DII work for them. I don't see people setting down their XL H1 for a 5DII. For them it's more of a demo of the core imaging ability in future products.

I see exposure shifting in the demo videos. You'd think they would have some way to lock exposure wouldn't you? You'd also think if they HAD that ability that Canon would have used it in the official promo videos?

Hmmmmmmm.....

I'd like to shoot a low budget feature with this camera.... if it can be pulled off. This would have to be a better solution than a Sony EX1 with a Letus.

You could shoot a low budget film with this camera and indeed the Nikon D90, but I think it would be like running a thee leg marathon race. i.e. its fun to do for a short distance but anything longer will be a handicap.

From my short experience with the D90, I would not be tempted to use the movie feature for anything other than my children on the beach, which I suppose was the intention for this feature. The Canon may (probably) be better, but to expect in focus High Definition quality footage could be a tall order.

A live view coming out of the HDMI port would help a lot... guess we'll see.

No problem. BluRay will have a short life, mostly because the difference between DVD and BluRay is not obvious all of the time. Early authors have been eliminated by the expense of BD-Rs, expense of burners, and lack of BD-R support of every non-PS3 BluRay player. The slow release rate of BluRay movies reflects the rental and purchase market -> small. More than half of the BluRay library is slow-selling transfers from films, and they are barely high definition to my eyes.

it appears that this camera shoots 1080i not 1080p.... bummer.

Canon 5D MKII Pre-Preview Report

Michael does know the difference as he owns a sony ex1 and has many years of video experience. I'm hoping he has made an error.... but I doubt it.

good news is that he did not notice any rolling shutter....

He has made at least one error:

"Nikon with their D90... shoots 720 30P, in others words 1280 X720 progressive at 30 FPS."

As we all know, the Nikon D90 shoots 24p, not 30p.

-"Meanwhile Canon shoots video in the 5DMKII using 1080i HD standard at 30 FPS. This is the top 1920 X 1080 resolution, roughly twice the resolution of 720P"

Well I would disagree with this statement from his article.

1080p would be the top 1920x1080 resolution.

-"You can set the ISO beforehand but not the exposure, other than via a plus / minus exposure compensation adjustment available via the rear wheel control. There also doesn't appear to be any way to control exposure in video mode (other than the aperture (+ / -) wheel), because exposure control appears to be allocated to stills mode."

This sounds like the video mode will be as one would expect from a still camera, not a like video camera.

Looks like it was too good to be true. :(

I don't see much use for auto exposure in the kind of work video folks do.

But I will still hope until after the full reviews come out...

well, I've searched the web and the only mention of I or P is micheal... Even canon leaves out whether it's I or P.

Well Michael has captured the footage into fcp and converted to aic - sounds like he might be right.

Article has been fixed.

Framerate still sucks for me.

Many have written that you can lock the exposure after setting it, but you don't have specific control over the settings. With lenses that have an aperture ring, you can manually lock the aperture, but then how is shutter speed controlled? These video modes will improve in the future.

"Article has been fixed."

praise cheeses!

Do you guys not read? in my previous post it states that if you use a Nikon lens on an adapter to EOS you can get manual aperture control after exposure lock, isn't that what we all wanted? Also most 35mm adapter guys already use Nikon glass anyways. Even better with the EOS mount you can also use Leica, Contax, Pentax and other glass with adapters too.

I haven't found it, but I know there is a thread about having to pay all sorts of fees if you are shooting professional video in the U.S. National Parks, but NOT if you are shooting stills.

<snicker>

How are the N.P. law enforcement zealots going to enforce that nonsense with a camera like this?

<snicker>

I thought I read that the shutter is locked at 1/60 or 1/125. So setting exposure would entail using a combination of ISO and Aperture. If you want shallower depth of field in bright conditions, you'd want to use ND filters. Note though, I'm just guessing.

Exposure wobbles
 

have you seen Michael's video yet?

It looks great, such a shallow DOF and nice colours. Only one thing, on some takes, where there's a variation in the whole frame's light balance, as something moves in, or like when the train lights come in, what looks like AE turns the picture lighter or darker.

as for the literature, looks like you can lock exposure before shooting, maybe Michael didnt know?


btw, excuse to ask it again,but didnt get any answers. Does Shake do good 30p to 25p conversions?

Vincent Laforet's short film he shot with a preproduction camera is up, quarter-rezed:

Canon Digital Learning Center - Sample Video: EOS 5D Mark II

I think it looks pretty good... smugmug's supposed to be hosting a 720p and full 1080p version at some point.

http://blog.vincentlaforet.com/2008/...r-ado-reverie/

Wow the depth of field, bokeh, and low light IQ look fantastic. Is that CMOS wobble in the helicopter scenes or just helicopter wobble?

Pat

Sounds like a very interesting cam. I cannot wait to check it out. However its primary reason for being is as a class-leading still photo device, I would buy one for its stills abilities alone. I do a fair amount of stills work as well. This 5D MkII may be a real boon to those shooting corporate/industrials, as well as photo journalists. I'd love to pick one up. I think it's ultimately going to lead the way in defining a product category, and will set a higher standard for all forthcoming pro-level DSLR's.
SW

I don't agree. It's not a matter of setting them down...more a matter of getting something that you can't get from any 3 CDD camera. The 5DII can produce a look in and of itself that an H1 can't without a quality 35 mm adapter. And beyond the inherent DOF and FOV, there's the latitude, and ISO advantages which are significant.

Compare the size and weight of a 5DII and an XL-H1 with a P&S adapter on the front.

Size, Weight, true 35mm DOF and FOV, latitude, low light, 1080p recorded to a CF card.

I can see a lot of reasons to use this as a dedicated filming tool for any number of practical and aesthetic reasons.

If the IQ ultimately delivers.

Footage looks amazing. Really. I am blown away. I don't see myself buying an EOS 5D Mark II. I will be waiting till NAB to see what products the competition will announce and see where the market is going. But I think within a year I will be shooting with 35mm photography glass in front of my camera. What a nice world we live in.

Looks like the Heli shots were gyro stabilized (credits), but I didn't see any significant rolling shutter - maybe just a touch in the tunnel and in the scan down the tall building from the heli... but overall an amazing camera - a sign of things to come.

Perhaps the disciplines will merge sooner than anyone expected... interesting developments!

When I go storm chasing I have always had to make a choice, shoot video or shoot stills. There just isn't time to mess about with multiple cameras. having seen the quality of the video from the 5D it could be that this may be the camera for me. I will be watching this one very carefully. One small issue will be that stills lenses don't track focus as accurately as a video lens when you zoom so mid shot zooms may go out of focus. I think getting focus right will be difficult with the small rear LCD so shooting anything that is comming towards or going away from you will be tricky.

Wow. The low light performance is amazing. The Heli shot of the skyline just floored me. As an amateur videographer (with some extra cash to spend on toys ;)) my biggest disappointment with the HD camcorder revolution is low light performance. This seems to be a quantum leap forward (yes, not incremental) in low light performance for both retail cams and Prosumer cams as well.

I was also impressed with the wide angle shots with the camara mounted on the vehicle. You can see some bouncing around of the camara but overall not too bad. OIS based camcorders cannot give you that smooth of a shot on a auto mount in my experience. Could that be due to sensor size, I wonder?

Looks like a new purchase is in my future. . .