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Andy Wilkinson November 30th, 2009 07:43 AM

Canon 7D - My Impressions After 3 Weeks Use
 
I've put together a quick summary of my first impressions of using the Canon 7D here. If you want detailed info there are many useful threads on DVinfo already or look at the excellent recent blog post by Phil Bloom. This is more of an initial summary of how I'm getting on with my 7D after a few weeks of use and an attempt to share some of my joys (and frustrations!) on getting to grips with the 7D. It is aimed at those of you who are wondering if you should buy a 7D or not, to try and make you aware of some of the things you might wish to investigate and think over further.

It's very much a work in progress page (!) but I'm posting a link here now in the hope that it'll help someone.

Expect this page to get updated with more info soon too.

Canon7DMiniReview

Lloyd Ubshura November 30th, 2009 10:33 AM

Thanks for your post. I read it all the way through and I feel much better that I'm not the only one having a hard time getting the right focus.

I think that the shallow DOF is awesome when you're in a situation that is ideal for it. It adds so much to the overall production, in my opinion. But a lot of the run and gun stuff is really NOT good with the 7D (or maybe it's just the 7D and ME), but that's why I haven't gotten rid of my Canon A1s. The autofocus on the A1s is great for some of those run and gun situations where you could almost NEVER do that well with the 7D. But when you have time to set up the shot and want the fg/bg to be blurry, and have an object that isn't moving all around, the 7D is the camera I'm now grabbing instead of the A1. The A1's DOF is not shallow at all.

Brian Luce November 30th, 2009 11:04 AM

Nice summary. Are you using a viewfinder of some sort? I'm using the T-finder and it's all the difference in the world for focusing.

Andy Wilkinson November 30th, 2009 11:12 AM

Thanks for the comments / encouragement / support as I deal with the challenge that is the art of focussing on a 7D!

I've just updated the text a little, a few minutes ago, as I realised some of it was a little unclear / ambiguous and one of the points was that I've now mentioned is that, currently, no I'm not using any accessory on the viewfinder - that's now a very high priority item for me.

For set-up shots in an office with camera on a tripod (talking head interview stuff) I've found the the EOS Utility software on my MBP works REALLY well for nailing focus....but it's hardly a run-n-gun option of course, even if it's possible to do this well on a 7D! You can get the viewing window to about 10 inches across (on my 15 inch MBP). There is a very very slight delay from realtime but that's of no consequence for focus / compositional / showing client type stuff.

Chris Barcellos November 30th, 2009 12:36 PM

Obviously, the same issues arise with 5D, which I have.

1. For focusing in action in run and gun situations, a magnified LCD viewer is almost mandatory. There are may ways to do that, including purchase of hooded version, DIY. I have made my own. But at times, I also just put on a dollar store set of magnifying glasses with a about a 3.5 diopter ( I normally use about 2.25) and I can get pretty decent results. That all depends on light conditions you are shooting in. The other thing is to practice with the lens you will be using for your run and gun shooting so you be automatice on which way you need to roll focus.

2. With auto focus lenses, you can set camera up to allow refocusing as the camera is rolling. However, that creates, in my experience, some temporary exposure issues and recording stutters. Its okay if you are going to cut there.

3. For narrative shooting, in which you can use a follow focus unit and monitor, the best result will be achieved accessing those tools. Not much different from issues of shooting 35mm cinema film cameras.

Chuck Spaulding November 30th, 2009 02:00 PM

Hi Andy,

Thanks for the great report. I've only been using my 7D for a couple of days, actually only about 30 minutes of shooting tests.

I mostly shoot video with EX1/3 and regarding focusing I seem to remember many of the same issues that your describing with the 7D (especially with the EX1). I think that's the nature of shooting HD, most of the viewfinders lack the necessary resolution or size for critical focus. Of coarse I'm a bit older and that certainly makes it more challenging. It would be great if there were more quality cost effective solutions for focus assist, but in the meantime the only way I was able to overcome these issues with the EX1 was lots of practice and the focus assist (magnify) button, which the 7D has.

I purchased this camera to use to augment the EX's, to get those much shallower DOF shots that are often to difficult or time consuming with the EX. Some of the shots are amazing, I don't think I could have got those shots with the EX3 no matter how much time I had, but most are not. Which simply illustrates that its the user not the camera.

You understated the challenges associated with setting up a good shot with the 7D, but I'll say this, for me this is the most challenging aspect of using this camera and the most rewarding. I forgot how much fun it can be setting the focal plain and really dialing in the exposure.

Also, just for grins I took the little test footage I have into Color, its quite impressive, I'm not sure why, XDCAM is 4:2:0 and I'd think the H264 is 4:2:0 before encoding to ProRes so there shouldn't be a difference there. But I found just about everything to respond and therefore grade better than the XDCAM footage.

This is a stupid thing to say, I may never use this camera in production, though I think I probably will, but from the little bit I've done with this camera it is certainly trending in the right direction. I have not shot with an EX since purchasing the 7D (because of scheduling), but I'm certain the 7D is making me a better videographer with the EX.

We often talk about the PIA (pain in the ass) factor of new technology, but I give the 7D an 8 out of 10 on the FUN factor...

Andy Wilkinson November 30th, 2009 04:30 PM

Hi Chuck and thanks for the comments. I actually agree it's great fun having to really think about how I'm going to shoot something with the 7D. Maybe my mini review thing on my website sounds otherwise - I'll look at that in the next edit.

I can (just!) remember when I was 21 years old and my dad bought me an Olympus OM1. I wanted the OM2... but he knew enough to realise that the fully manual OM1 would make me a much better photographer in the long run - as I'd have to think about everything - and he was right of course! And I loved it and still treasure it (it's never used now though).

I've got a pretty strong bonding thing going on with my 7D too...just at times it's like my "other job" of being a parent to 2 young daughters - moments of absolute joy one second and outright horror the next in an inexplicably random fashion! But like my girls, I know it'll work out fine in the end with practice and patience!

Bill Pryor November 30th, 2009 04:31 PM

I'm not having any problem focusing manually, using the IDC/Hoodman on the LCD and the magnify button. It's actually quicker to get critical focus than with my XH A1. I've checked out the auto focus, and it's accurate but too slow. And, as noted, you can't shift focus during a shot. For those accustomed to using auto features on the smaller video cameras, I can see the pain in the ass factor might be a little heavy.

Brian Luce November 30th, 2009 04:56 PM

With the magnify button and hoods like the T-finder et al focusing is easy. Exposure is a different matter. Cough! Cough! tramm hudson Cough!

Scott Shama November 30th, 2009 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Luce (Post 1454050)
Nice summary. Are you using a viewfinder of some sort? I'm using the T-finder and it's all the difference in the world for focusing.

I can't seem to find a T-Finder on google.. do you have a link?


Thanks,
Scott

Roger Bloemers November 30th, 2009 06:24 PM

I am also looking for the T-finder
 
I can't find it through google. Can you find me a link? thanks so much.

Cristian Derois November 30th, 2009 06:53 PM

Thanx so much for the review, Andy. It is already on my favorites.

I'm planning to start to work on my own, and I was very concern which workflow should give me the best results: EX1 and its xdcam or 7D and its marvellous shots (I"m talking about its picture quality - found in vimeos' 7D clips- DOF it is just one of many tools we might have in hands as cinematographers to tell a story, in my oppinion.)

I want to start a business in the wedding market, and some corporate. As far as I can see, 7D isn't suitble for the task, don't you agree? 4 GB FAT32 limit ruins my plans to shot weddings cerimonies (Lets wait for a NTFS CF:); not to metion that everybody complains the challenge to get the right focus.

Well, your review was VERY enlightening to me. Thanx so much. For now, I' thinking to move to EX1R production and workflow, and change my Nikkon D70s for 7D!

I think it is just the begginning. Many things will happen very shortly in the DSLR's world. Thats for sure!

Bill Pryor November 30th, 2009 07:59 PM

I haven't heard of T-finder either. I use the IDC/Hoodman ($200 from idcphotography.com).

Brian Luce November 30th, 2009 08:32 PM

The T-Finder is Ted Ramasola's version of the Hood loop. Works great! I'll post some pics. It has a 4x magnifier I think.

Michael Nistler December 1st, 2009 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristian Derois (Post 1454267)
Thanx so much for the review, Andy. It is already on my favorites. <clip>

I want to start a business in the wedding market, and some corporate. As far as I can see, 7D isn't suitble for the task, don't you agree? 4 GB FAT32 limit ruins my plans to shot weddings cerimonies (Lets wait for a NTFS CF:); not to metion that everybody complains the challenge to get the right focus. <clip>

Sure, quite a few top event videographers are beginning to use Canon 7D for wedding and event videography. And the 5D is unsurpassed for low light shooting over typical prosumer camcorders.

Search videos for 'wedding canon 7d' on Vimeo

Stopping a few seconds every 12 minutes shouldn't be a big deal for wedding videos and even if it was, most pros are going to be doing at least a two camera shoot away so stopping a few seconds and again pressing the record button isn't a big deal. Actually, with a 32GB CF it has less down time than a miniDV tape. But for run-and-gun sessions where autofocus is a big deal, the 7D probably isn't your camera of choice. And of course, you'll need to have a separate audio recorder, etc...

Regards, Michael

Richard Gooderick December 1st, 2009 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristian Derois (Post 1454267)
I want to start a business in the wedding market, and some corporate. As far as I can see, 7D isn't suitble for the task, don't you agree? 4 GB FAT32 limit ruins my plans to shot weddings cerimonies (Lets wait for a NTFS CF:); not to metion that everybody complains the challenge to get the right focus.

Christian
Do a search on DV info before you make your mind up.
I read a post yesterday from a wedding photographer saying that he wouldn't be using anything other than his 7D from now onwards because he was so pleased with it.
Not everyone is complaining about the challenge to get right focus. The x10 button makes it pretty easy, if you have time to set up your shots.

Andy Wilkinson December 1st, 2009 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristian Derois (Post 1454267)
Thanx so much for the review, Andy. It is already on my favorites.

I'm planning to start to work on my own, and I was very concern which workflow should give me the best results: EX1 and its xdcam or 7D and its marvellous shots (I"m talking about its picture quality - found in vimeos' 7D clips- DOF it is just one of many tools we might have in hands as cinematographers to tell a story, in my oppinion.)

I want to start a business in the wedding market, and some corporate. As far as I can see, 7D isn't suitble for the task, don't you agree? 4 GB FAT32 limit ruins my plans to shot weddings cerimonies (Lets wait for a NTFS CF:); not to metion that everybody complains the challenge to get the right focus.

Well, your review was VERY enlightening to me. Thanx so much. For now, I' thinking to move to EX1R production and workflow, and change my Nikkon D70s for 7D!

I think it is just the begginning. Many things will happen very shortly in the DSLR's world. Thats for sure!

Hi Cristian,

I think the 7D is up to the tasks you mention, as long as you are aware of the pitfalls that might arise and make sure you get alternative shots to cover them. For example, if one of your key wedding guests was to wear something with a herringbone pattern (a fine repeating high contrast type of appereance) you may have issues with the 7D depending on the focus regime used and so on. Then again, up until the EX1R was launched (and the Tiffen filters for the EX3 and old EX1) wedding videographers were often complaining bitterly about the way the EX1/3 handled blacks (IR contamination resulting in funny browns etc.). No camera is perfect. It's about understanding each ones limitations and strengths and using it in a way where it's strong points shine.

As has been stated, the 4GB limit is not really an issue (especially if you have 2 cameras in action) but I'd be a little worried about the overheating issue in your climate at certain times of year (see below, I know it very well!). I think the EX1R would be an easier camera for your intended tasks, ideally supplemented by a 7D (or 5DMkII etc.). But that's just my opinion and I don't do weddings so take that into account.

We've seen many good examples already on Vimeo et al (and the camera has only been available for a month or so) so I'm confident it'll do MOST tasks once I've understood exactly how to use it. However, no way would the 7D be my ONLY tool for corporate, I can say that with confidence and some experience, albeit limited experience, with the 7D at present. My EX3 is a perfect tool for 90% of what I do (and has done 100% pretty well up until now!)

Thanks for the kind comments about my review. On a personal note, I had several very happy years flying in and out of Porto Alegre, Brazil every other week (from the UK !- when I worked for Solae / DuPont as a scientist) and it was one of my favourite locations to visit with work. I used to stay all the time in the Sheraton, and Mulligans, just up the road was my bar! - I've met so many nice people in your country and city. You have many very beautiful women in that part of Brazil so I'm sure your 7D or EX1R wedding videos will look just great! :-)

Cristian Derois December 1st, 2009 05:59 PM

Thanks for comments, guys!

Michael

Yes, I think you're right. I've edited so far tons of weddings plenty of rec'n stop (I didn't figure out - yet - WHY on earth cameran push the rec button on action - to save tape?). I think I can survive with some clips to sync, I get very used to sync...
And, yes again. I will have to buy a good mic.
Thanks for the comment.

Richard

Oh, man! You want make me confused. I recently found this treasure chest of forum. The time is short to read everything but there's no other way. Thanks to you I am evaluating again my options. And I grateful for this.

Andy

Ha, that's funny! I never expected someone to know where Porto Alegre is! Next time you come notify me and I pay you a beer!

Everything you posted was registered. I plan to open my own business in 2010's mid. I'm currently work in my business' plan (sorry, I don't know exactly expression in English). I"ll buy a 7D and test it meanwhile. I think I'll be able to shoot some idependent short movies with it. I love movies...
I've visited your website and watched yours 3M piece, and I was very inspired. I hope I can make this kind of work in the future.
Well, thanks so much. Maybe someday I'll vacation in UK and you can show me some good pub at West Ham. It is where Iron Maiden was born, isn't it? Cheers!

Kevin Shaw December 1st, 2009 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cristian Derois (Post 1454267)
I want to start a business in the wedding market, and some corporate. As far as I can see, 7D isn't suitble for the task, don't you agree? 4 GB FAT32 limit ruins my plans to shot weddings cerimonies (Lets wait for a NTFS CF:); not to metion that everybody complains the challenge to get the right focus.

The 5D and 7D are getting a lot of attention from wedding videographers, but primarily as supplemental tools to traditional video cameras. The president of our local association says he still uses his video cameras for wedding ceremonies, toasts and other long segments, while using his 5D for pre/post ceremony and assorted reception footage. That seems like a sensible compromise between practical concerns and the impressive footage you can get with DSLRs under the right circumstances (and with plenty of practice).

I've been testing a 7D recently and would call the low-light sensitivity adequate but not necessarily ground-breaking. You need a fast lens to get the most from DSLRs and that limits your choice of lenses, especially if you like to have a decent zoom range available. On the plus side, the low-light footage looks cleaner than what I get from my video cameras, so it might be possible to push it further in post - and hence extend the useful range in extreme low-light situations.

Bottom line: if you're thinking of jumping into wedding videos with little or no prior experience, start with standard video camera and worry about DSLRs later. There's enough to think about without trying to learn to use cutting-edge technology which is challenging those with many years of experience.

Roger Shealy December 2nd, 2009 07:03 PM

Andy,

I was just sitting down at the computer to compose my own version of my thoughts after about 4 weeks with the 7D. I find your write-up almost exactly what I have encountered.
The footage can be stunning, but the shallow DOF makes focusing maddening for a one-man show. I would not recommend this as the primary camera for someone making a living of of real world shoots. For controlled shorts and artistic work it has a place. Because I shoot for a hobby, I can afford to throw out 50% of my work. Right now, I'm probably catching less than 25% of anything that has real motion in an indoor, naturally lit environment. When I go outside in bright sun and can close the aperture down beyond 8, I have a fighting chance, but it's still quite difficult to nail real life in video. I've also found zooming difficult to pull off cleanly, and changes in aperture (either by manual adjustment or a lens with variable aperture through the zoom) to be abrupt, making the footage unusable. I instead have adopted using Auto ISO when I have variable lighting situations. It provides a much smoother lighting adjustment than I can do manually, especially on the run. I have found that when in a hurry Auto ISO does a better job than I can without taking a few test shots/histograms.

Interestingly, many of the same things I find challenging are the allure of the camera. As a hobby, the challenge of focus is making me a better videographer. I used to find my XHA1 a challenge to keep focused. I picked one up the other day and it was a cake-walk. It was like hitting a tin can with a shotgun after trying to hit flies with a slingshot! How could you miss? I also love the ability to take great still shots and to switch back and forth between stills and video. After 4 weeks I miss the XHA1's feature set, including 20X zoom L-lens, manual controls, XLR's, ND's..... these were so much more valuable than I realized.

There have been a lot of write-ups of the 7D's low light gathering capabilities. And they are somewhat true. I can throw on a 1.4 lens and capture dimly lit rooms if I use noise suppression software to clean things up. I haven't found most of the lower light footage outstanding without noise suppression. I've had two copies of the 7D and both showed noticeable noise anywhere north of 640. In my opinion not very pretty after 1250. Now if you have a wide-to-long zoom, you are probably using f2.8 or worse something like 3.5-5.6. In this case the 7D loses its superior light gathering due to inefficient glass and the A1 @ 1.6 - 2 can actually look very good by comparison.

Do I dislike the 7D? Not at all. I actually enjoy it very much - for what it is. For a hobby I prefer it over the A1. I just can't imagine using the 7D as the sole camera for capturing a wedding or any other active one-shot activity. I'll continue to work on my camera skills and maybe some day I'll nail my ability to hit focus at will. Not anywhere close yet!

Chuck Spaulding December 2nd, 2009 08:50 PM

When we evaluate new technology we do so with an eye towards the past. We often make comparisons between cameras, I have seen shots comparing Red footage with 5dMkII with 7D footage for example. Other than to say all that I have seen holds up pretty well, the comparison [although appreciated and fun to watch] don't really mean much.

Plus as Kevin points out the application of the camera is critical. When talking about these comparisons it is important to note what's being compared, for the past year I've been working in a tapeless environment using XDCAM EX1/3's and this workflow made me evaluate and change just about everything we were doing. After a year of doing it I can't ever imagine going back to tape. Sure I could do it, but the creative possibilities that going tapeless presented

It's often difficult to express the intangibles that come from going through such an evaluation process. Roger mentions how using the 7D makes it easier to focus his A1, I have mentioned how this camera is forcing me to be a better cinematographer, not simply because of the 7D but more likely I just became accustom to firing up the EX3, white balancing, focusing and pretty much pointing and shooting. I thought I could just use this camera the way I did the EX3 and I'd be making movies in no time. But as anyone who has used the 7D knows, that's not the case.

Also, like Roger I can afford to throw out a large percentage of my work, or to put it another way I can afford the time it takes to figure out how some people are getting some incredible results with this camera.

It seems that we are taking a tool and trying to use it in ways that it wasn't intended. Its some plastic with a big censor that we can put whatever lens we want on it, you know like a Red. But thats probably where the comparison ends. I'm not going to run out and replace the EX3's with the 7D, but I do think there are ways of using this camera that few of us have figured out yet that could help really take some of our productions up a couple of levels. And for something less of $4K I think that's pretty exciting.

Sorry for rambling, my wife went Christmas shopping and left me here with nothing to do...

Jon McGuffin December 2nd, 2009 09:17 PM

No, that's not rambling, that's a pretty good intepretation on how this cam fits in... I'm pretty sure I'll be getting one on order this month and I am really excited about it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts... Ironically, my wife is ALSO out Christmas shopping. Hopefully they're not spending too much $$ !:) :) :)

Jon

Chuck Spaulding December 2nd, 2009 09:49 PM

Maybe she's getting you a new 7D...

I asked my wife for a new 24mm f/1.4, I'm not allowed to repeat what she said on this forum....

Roger Shealy December 2nd, 2009 10:34 PM

7 Attachment(s)
I thought it might be fun to compare some low light footage frame-grabs taken from the 7D at different ISO's compared to a well-worn XHA1. There are a lot of comments about the low light capabilities of the 7D. With a fast lens, it's pretty good. If you use a zoom lens, say f2.8 on a high quality zoom lens or f3.5 or f5.6 on a cheap kit lens things get messier. Remember, the A1 is always wearing a 20X zoom lens, in this case set at f2.0.

The room had a single overhead fluorescent bulb (13W?) and bounce light from two fluorescent BR30's pointed against a side wall. I took an XHA1 and the 7D and put them side by side. With $99 worth of noise suppression software you can do a lot to equalize 2006 HDV technology to look pretty decent compared to late 2009 DSLR technology. If you go much darker than these conditions, the A1 goes south in a hurry, but the 7D loses a lot of sparkle as well.

Note1: I adjusted the A1 footage slightly as always to make the colors and contrast look better (as I always do with it's footage). The 7D footage came straight out of the camera.

There's really not much of a point to all of this other than a lot of the great 7D low light footage is being shot with $1,400 f1.2 prime lenses many don't have or want to live with. If you want zoom capability on your 7D, it puts a pretty stiff penalty on light transmission even with good glass. I really like my 7D and replaced my own XHA1 to buy it. For my personal use it was a good trade but it did come with some compromises.

Brian Luce December 3rd, 2009 01:25 AM

Yeah, I'm also a bit skeptical so far about the low light ability of the 7d as compared to the bread and butter 1/3" HDV's. I think you're right, to get noticeable improvement over HDV you need some rocked up primes. 2.8 and above isn't going to make you happy.

Roger Shealy December 3rd, 2009 07:04 AM

As a testimony to the 7D in its ideal environment, my son reports that roughly half of the senior projects delivered this quarter at film school were shot on the 7D and have largely replaced the Red and traditional cameras. This is astounding when you consider that to deliver their senior drafts before December, they had to choose and start working with the 7D right as it was being released. They were able to get the DOF and film look with a 7D - buying the camera for less than renting the Red. And the results were very good on less-than-theater sized screens. With time, care, and the ability to repeat, the 7D is quite impressive at a very, very reasonable cost.

In my book the 7D is an incredible artist's camera or a great 2nd or 3rd camera.

Liam Hall December 3rd, 2009 11:07 AM

I think that's about right Roger. It's not the best choice for everyone or for every type of production, but it can be the right choice for both.

Interesting observation about students choosing it over RED. It's a much shorter learning curve for them and not such a strain on their wallet or their back. Students might not find the best way to do something, but they will find the one that is the easiest and allows them the most time in the bar!

Roger Shealy December 3rd, 2009 12:56 PM

Liam,

Agreed on the Red vs 7D. On a budget you can equip a 7D pretty nicely for about $5k and you can use a fast-but-normal computer to process the video. Red, as I understand it, is a great value compared to a $150K production camera but is still pricey for a modest budget production, also requiring more crew and high end post processing power needed that that may not be readily available to a student.

Nathan Moody December 3rd, 2009 08:19 PM

The 5D and 7D are also great for corporate work. I've now shot a few with both a rented 5D MkII and my own 7D. For the location-centric, fast-paced, limited-space-for-lighting, please-blur-out-the-busy-background world of corporate shooting, the 7D's been a revelation. I've had the best luck when I throw out my video-camera preconceptions; e.g., shooting stills and referring to the histogram for exposure confirmation, using a light meter when setting up lights, shooting double-system audio, color grading in post. I've found these are just DIFFERENT ways of shooting, not worse or better. It's all a tradeoff, but if you have the right attitude going in, it can be fun, fast, lightweight, and return pretty killer imagery. Provided you know what you're in for. ;-)

Andy Wilkinson December 4th, 2009 11:01 AM

Just to update this about focussing.

I've done quite a bit this week with the 7D and I'm getting much better at nailing focus using the 5x and 10x quick "Magnify" button on the 7Ds back, top right. This is still a bit too fiddly in run and gun situations but for more sedate stuff it's brilliant now I've got my technique honed to use it quickly. I'm not sure if the 5D MkII has this feature but I'm appreciating it more and more on the 7D. I typically use this feature quite a bit on the EX3.

Also, with static subjects where I have more time, I also beginning to love the ability to quickly move around the "white box" (AF Point) on the LCD (using the joystick "Multicontroller") to where I want focus to be and then a quick AF push and the box turns green to confirm focus has been achieved (or if I'm still not happy, a quick fine adjust manually in the expanded view). Then it's just a press of the record button.

I'm still not where I need to be with the 7D (yet!) but things are looking good and I've already shot some stunning stuff on it!

I'll update my website page with this info when I get time (it's been a very busy week - everyone wants their video finished before Xmas!)

Andy Wilkinson December 6th, 2009 11:12 AM

Thanks for leaving this thread on track.

Just a quick note to say I've done some minor text updates to my website review linked at the top (page 1) of this thread...as it's now 4 weeks in. Basically, I'm getting better at focus using some of the tools Canon provided on the 7D and I've started using my light meter again (never thought I'd be doing that!).

Andy Wilkinson December 11th, 2009 02:29 PM

7D Aliasing (especially in 720p 50fps)
 
Just to add more info. I did some shots in Cambridge yesterday (in some of the College quadrangles that I frequently visit, and also around the Market / Rose Crescent area / Xmas lights, as the sun went down). Some of the stuff I shot in 1080p25 is really beautiful (the odd hint of aliasing here and there - but just about bearable). I'm thrilled with that stuff!

However, near enough all the stuff I shot in 720p50 is horrible - aliasing on anything with a hard edge etc. near horizontal (paving slab lines, cobbles, arms of chairs, shop window frames, anything architectural etc.). I'd read it was much worse than at 1080p but wanted to see. Obviously, where those things were out of the focal plane it was fine - all was with my only lens (Canon 17-55 EF-S and most of it at F2.8) so best shots were on the long end, as expected, regarding this specific aspect.

Anyway, from what I've seen the 720p mode on the 7D has very limited application (at least at this F stop, this lens, for day and night time city shooting) but I'll test it some more (or only use my EX3 for those 720p high frame rate shots...but then you get unwanted attention). With the 7D, very few people batted an eyelid and/or just assumed I was another tourist taking snaps (just what I like when I'm shooting video in public places!). My guess is 720p50 will need very shallow DOF and/or organic/natural subjects, nothing man-made in shot to be remotely acceptable, especially for intercutting with EX3 stuff.

Just my personal thoughts - YMMV. I'll put some of the footage from yesterday up on my website when I (eventually) get time - lots of other stuff to edit before the holidays!

Marty Welk December 19th, 2009 08:51 AM

thanks for the review/comparison, that answered so many things.

Andy Wilkinson December 19th, 2009 12:31 PM

Thanks for letting me know Marty - glad all this stuff helps!!!

The video I mentioned above is now finished and on YouTube (and currently embedded in a page my website). Link below direct to YouTube page. All the shots that made it to final edit were 1080p ones...but the video was uploaded as a 720p export from Final Cut.

YouTube - Cambridge in December (Canon 7D)

Keith Moreau December 19th, 2009 11:01 PM

Hi Andy, nice video. Did you do the zooms in post?

Andy Wilkinson December 20th, 2009 10:10 AM

Thanks! Yes, no way can I get zooms as smooth as that with the "naked" camera - and I don't want any complex, "pimped up" rig for the 7D as it defeats one of the major advantages shooting those types of situations (highly portable and almost "stealthy"). If I want a big rig/to get noticed in public I take the EX3!

With the 7D people think you're just taking snaps. You'll notice very few people actually looking into camera, even though the longest reach on my lens equates to about 88mm. Some shots would have benefited from a lens with longer reach for sure. About the only problem I got was the odd, very thoughtful, person stopping dead in their tracks and waiting for me to take "the picture" (which always gets a big thank you in return of course).

Some of the shots had SmoothCam applied in FCP too (as it was all hand held) - I'm pretty steady but this helps in some cases.

I'm pretty pleased with how it turned out, bearing in mind I've only had the camera a few weeks and not had much playtime with it because of client commitments.

Also, most of the shots I took that afternoon/early evening were deliberately taken to see at what point the camera gave me unacceptable results. This is why you don't see any real shallow DOF stuff - I know it's good at that stuff - I wanted to see at what point it was not so good - hence a lot of wide shots in complex, man made environments (to see how bad or not the aliasing and moire would be in both 1080p and 720p modes). 720p was much worse for aliasing as I now know from my own experience from this exercise. Also, I decided to film mid-afternoon onwards, so as the sun went down I could get some low light stuff of the Market Scenes and Xmas lights to see just how much I could push my 7D in this aspect (with the lens I currently have). Certainly usable within boundaries that a faster lens would widen.

I've sent the video link to a numbers of my clients as a Xmas thank you for their business over the last year - seemed a much better way than just another Xmas card and the feedback has been highly positive! It was a good way of reminding them of "the power of video" - but they know that already as the've employed me!

Peter Rhalter December 21st, 2009 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Shealy (Post 1455399)
I thought it might be fun to compare some low light footage frame-grabs taken from the 7D at different ISO's compared to a well-worn XHA1...

The shallow depth of field in the first 7D shot puts it in a complete category of expression than any of the XHA1's. If you want to make the gumball machine (or whatever your subject is) separate from the background these DSLRs let you do that for a small fortune less than the previous tools. For me it opens a lot of possibilities.

Peter
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Roger Shealy December 22nd, 2009 10:31 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Peter, I agree completely. I absolutely love the clarity and DOF of the 7D. It does, however make focus much, much harder and there are times I wish I had f2.0 or better with more range in focus for live, active content. I haven't been able to manage focus on dynamic subjects reliably. I'm not saying its impossible, just a whole new level of skill is required to keep things sharp. Perhaps a monitor will help in this area.

I just hired a crew using a 7D and 2 XHA1's to capture a corporate event. The 7D was spectacular for short snippets of content that stayed at fairly static distance. On other content, such as presentations with the presenter pacing the stage and making unexpected trips into the audience, the A1's were very effective. I'd just love to tone down the 7D's thin DOF for some situations and maintain f2.0 in low light. Another issue with the 7D was some pretty nasty aliasing. One gentleman wore a shirt with a crosshatched pattern that made the 7D's sensor go wonkers. Every time he moved his arm it turned into a rainbows of colors" (see picture at 400%). I hope to find a filter or some type of post processing to reduce this in the future.


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