Neoscene or mpeg streamclip
 

When importing the footage from the camera, do you use neoscene or the free program mpeg streamclip to convert it to editable avi-files ?
I work on windows.
I thought the time of realtime capturing from tapes was over, but now it seems maybe it's going to take as long or even longer. First copying the footage on your HDD and then converting it. :(

Well, as long as folks keep buying cameras that make more demands on their PCs than the PCs can handle, we'll keep having to transcode footage.

I had been doing conversions inside my NLE, but just recently got into Mpeg Streamclip and it seems to work very nicely for converting raw footage. And unlike Cineform, I get to pick the codec I want for conversions.

Also unlike ingesting tape, I can do a batch render overnight for all the footage. This is significant if you come back with 4-24 hours of footage like I do. Tape requires intervention.

I was checking the Cineform Neoscene website yesterday and it looks like that it works great for the 5D in that it converts the files to 29.97 from 30P. It also stated that you could use either ProRes or the Cineform codec.

For the 7D, I would think that MPEG Streamclip would be the better and cheaper option.

Daniel Weber

Yes you're right Perrone,
Tapes require intervention.
What codec do you choose for converting ?
Do you work windows or mac based ?

Mpeg Streamclip offers little support for AVI files on the PC. So I typically use the Avid DNxHD codec as my target codec.

If I am making Proxies, I use MJpegA. I also find that trying to use my Jpeg200 codec inside Mpeg Streamclip causes it to crash, so I have to do that archive render inside my NLE

I am Windows Based.

So this Avid codec is in Streamclip? And this Avid codec works in Vegas?

Does the Avid codec work in Premiere?

If you install the codec (free) yes it works in Premiere and Mpeg Streamclip. It works in Vegas but is subject to Vegas' poor handling of all .mov files. I use it anyway.

I don't know what I'm doing wrong,
But when I try to convert a file in mpeg streamclip, then the program freezes.
I tried to convert it with TMPGenc 4.0 xpress and then it worked, but I don't
know if that program is good for converting those files.

TMPGenc 4.0 xpress is exellent. If that's working for you, and you don't mind paying the money, then stay with it.

I use Mpeg Streamclip because it's free, effective, and does what I need for the most part. I use other programs to do the things it won't do.

yeah, I had to use it some months ago, so I already purchased it. ;)
But when I want to convert it into a quicktime file, I don't know which codec or compression I should use.
(Animation, no compression, photo-jpeg, ...)
Any advice ?

Well, like anything, the codec you choose depends greatly on what you plan to do with it. Is this for archiving? Are you going to be using it to edit? Is this for putting on a webserver for people to download?

If you tell me what you're going to do with the converted .mov file, I can help you select a codec.

Generally I think that he (and me) mainly wants good codec settings for:
lossless quality and easy to edit

In my case I'd prefer the best suitable format and codec for editing in Premiere CS4.

Thanks guys!

DNxHD, the cineform killer
 

So far this system works pretty good.
Here's what I did for my Dell Quad i7 920.
Download mpeg streamclip and the Avid DNxHD codec. Both FREE! intall both. MPEG Streamclip will recognize the DNxHD when you go to File>Export to Quicktime. Go ahead and convert the file. a 200 megabyte native 7d file took about 20 seconds to render and created a 700 megabyte DNxHD intermediate codec. I don't have Cineform so cannot say if it would do it faster.

Native 7d files do NOT play smoothly on my Vegas 9 timeline. The DNxHD does and should be more robust for color correcting etc.

I wish there was way to do these intermediary conversiosn on the Vegas timeline itself. My Vegas 6 *can* do that, but only with 720p footage.

Brian,

I have heard along with limited personal experience that anything encoded in an .mov format on the Vegas timeline typically suffers when it comes to performance.

Is this not the case with your DNxHD encoded .mov files that are you are bringing in from the 7D to Vegas?

Also, can you give some comparative performance analysis of say, HDV on the vegas timeline versus DNxHD encoded .mov files?

Jon

It's like Joachim said, I have to use it for editing in Premiere CS4 and then
I do some color correcting in After Effects.
Then afterwards I have to render it out on a DVD for a customer.

Ok, then the Avid DNxHD is excellent for what you want to do. Some of the AJA codecs would work to, but I just stick with the Avid codecs because they do such a good job.

I've heard the same thing about mov and Vegas. All I can say so far is that DNxHD in the QT envelope is better than the native 7d files. So far so good, I'll see what happens when I start loading up the timeline with filters and other stuff. I've always had good luck with native HDV in Vegas 9. When I used Vegas 5-6, I always transcoded to Cineform. But it's my understanding that Vegas has had it together with HDV since version 8.

I believe Perrone Ford has a lot of experience with DNxHD in Vegas, perhaps he can jump in on this.

DnxHD is going to be faster on the timeline than the mpeg4 variants like we see in the 5D/7D. The .mov performance hit is still there, but modern machines like the i7 are nearly fast enough to cope with the issue. My dual quadcore still can't play 1080p real time in the Vegas timeline inside the .mov container. HDV moves like SD, as does my XDCamEX footage.

If cutting HD on the timeline is important to you, and you do not want to work with proxy files, then Cineform still makes the most sense for Vegas users. Other NLEs don't seem to have much of a problem with .mov files, so I have no hesitation recommending DNxHD.

So for Vegas users, I typically recommend one of the following:

1. Use an i7 processor and live with the small performance hit
2. Use Cineform
3. Use Proxy files and do traditional online/offline editing
4. Use DNxHD and live with the performance issues. Especially if sharing with Mac users.

I would love to hear what Perrone has to say on this as well as what you learn in the coming days while using DNxHD on the Vegas timeline.

I once converted some of my HDV footage to DNxHD and there was a definate performance hit over just using HDV on the timeline. I wasn't sure if it was the coded, the resolution of the file, or the fact the file was an .mov but my sense was that it was Vegas not playing nicely with .mov files that was doing me in.

I'm a fan of Cineform's products and find encoding from their application into their codec is straightforward and the editing abilities on the Vegas timeline are roughly, if not slightly behind, the same as working with raw HDV footage.

Jon

That frankly answers the question perfectly Perrone. As usual, thank you for your input here..

Jon

Perrone,

Kind of off-topic, but do you know if mpeg streamclip can batch-transcode long-gop nanoflash files and render out to DNxHD?

I'm in the middle of something, but give me a few minutes and I'll let you know.

Thanks, I just installed streamclip (I also have a trial version of calibrated software's xd decode for quicktime) and I was able to get a sample 100mbps long-GOP .mov file from CD's website to play (although with grey bars due to the trial version of xd decode). No luck on the .mxf sample. Could be a free, high-quality, cross-platform solution for dealing with nano files. I am still NLE-shopping so I can't test fully, but if this works it would be good news for me.

Could you also clarify whether .mov DNxHD files should be fully functional in Premeire, After Effects, and Final Cut Studio? I understand some of your previous posts to say that is the case, but I'm not sure if I'm reading you right.

Thanks for your input.

Ah, you know what. You'd be further along than me. I don't have access to Calibrated software's decoder, so I couldn't say whether it would work or not. It would be interesting to pull the file into Vegas and see what it does.

I just installed the DNxHD codec and converted a few frame-long clip, I could try to send you the output file if you can give me an email address. The only thing I can't figure is that the file size increased by 4.3 times (with the output quality slider at 100%), I would have figured that 100mbps source to 220mbps DNxHD should have given a smaller file.

Mike, as much as I hate saying this, but that was a very "Mac" thing to do! :) Leave the quality slider alone, and click on the "Options" button. This will bring up the real settings for the codec.

Set your color levels to 709 (since I am assuming you are not feeding the codec RGB level images), and then select the desired bitrate from the listing. You can choose the one that most closely resembles your footage.

That should give you the expected results. By choosing the 100% quality, you likely created a 10bit file.

Thanks, I was able to get the appropriate file size that way. There's a little glitch in streamclip on my computer where you can only see the top edge of the quality selector in the options window, but I got it to work. I'll make a post in the convergent design forum and see if anyone there wants to test the workflow all the way through, that's where I found out about the quicktime XDCam decoder.

Excellent. I thought you were on a Mac, and it was my understand that glitch doesn't show on the Mac. I apologize for not pointing that out. Honestly, it's been there forever, and I can't believe Avid hasn't solved it.

Ha, I was looking for a close substitute for Prores so I could avoid having to buy and learn how to use a Mac or pay $$$ for Cineform. I want to do some time-remapped slow motion with nano footage and already have a reasonably fast quad-core PC, so I figured my existing PC plus PP/AE/twixtor was a way better value than buying a new Mac plus FCP/Motion, but I wasn't sure of what was a suitable intermediate codec for that setup.

I think it's a great low budget solution. You can get a refurb'd Dell i7 Quad for $500, Vegas Pro 8 for about $200, Freebie MPEG Streamclip, Freebie Avid Codec and you've got a poorman's powerhouse NLE. What's the Mac PRO and FCP package going to cost? 6 grand?

I use pro9 and every time I try to convert 7d files into dnxhd, when I import the into Vegas, the application freezes and crashes. Any ideas??
What parameter do you use in streamclip when you usae the dnxhd??

Thank you

Hmm, that's odd. I never have that trouble on any of the three machines I do this on. In MpegStreamclip:

I select DNxHD, usually use DNxHD 175x if I am bringing masters into Vegas, or DNxHD 36 if I am doing proxies. Make sure the interlacing option is turned off. Other than that, I just let it do the render and it comes into Vegas perfect. I do this in Vegas 9, Vegas 8.0c and Vegas 8.1. And right now on my timeline are DNxHD files I used Mpeg streamclip to convert from the 5D.

dnxhd and vegas
 

Where do I find the "175x" value? (I do not have access to my workstation right now where streamclip is installed).

Thank you.
Carlo

If you select DNxHD in Mpeg Streamclip, there will be a button for options right next to it. This will bring up a list of all the different options for bitrates you can use.

dnxHD
 

Thank you so much. I will try again this pm.

Carlo

dnxHD
 

What about the "quality" fader...should I breing it to 100 or leave it at 50?

It has no bearing on the DNxHD codec.

dnxHD
 

The "Options" pop up window has a glitch. How do I get to the bit rate?
Thank you

Ok
 

I go it...Thank you