C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

Hi,

First post here!
Need a little help deciding on my next video camera.
As of now I shoot mostly weddings and a few events here and there.

I use C100 mkii as main A camera and 70D as my 2nd camera. (with 6D thrown in as C camera when needed but not often). I shoot C-Log with C100 and flat picture profile on 70D.
I can feel quite a difference between C100 files and 70D files and basically want something better and easier to match shots faster/better.

I am not decided between C200 and 5D mk vi.
I was only considering C200 before but now with 5D vi's C-Log upgrade it could integrate into my workflow quite nicely as well.

On paper, if I look from purely image quality point of view 5D vi in C-Log should match quite nicely with C100 mkii.
However, C200 I feel like is more of a complete and future proof video camera albeit 2x the cost.

Basically, is it worth getting the C200 considering it is 2x the cost of 5D mkvi?

Thanks!

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

That's because you shouldn't be shooting flat with the 70D. The 70D doesn't have a log gamma, so don't try to take it. All you do is stress the codec that the 70D records to and makes the footage look worse.

Consider this: the 5D Mark IV with Clog was announced at NAB, and since then, nothing. There has been zero information since April (it's now mid-June). If you don't shoot in 4K, the different in quality over your 70D will be negligible at this time.

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

Hi Gary,

Thanks for reply.
When you say "If you don't shoot in 4K, the different in quality over your 70D will be negligible at this time." do you mean the difference between 70D and 5D mkvi? Do you eman the quality diff. will be small because 5D still hasn't gotten C-Log?
If I can with some budget stretch but still afford the C200, I doubt I can go wrong getting it right?

P.S. One thing that I couldn't find answer anywhere was weather the C200 screen is HD. I mean the C100 mkii screen is SD and that's one thing that I really don't like...

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

I mean in shooting 1080p footage. The 5D Mark IV still uses basically the same 1080 engine that the previous models have.

CLog will not be of any noticeable benefit to you if you plan on using LUTs and tweaking saturation and contrast.

Did you not like the res of the screen or how the screen looked? The screen looked great to me when I was using the C100 Mark II. No issues.

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

Hello Hakob, sounds like you’re okay with the performance of C-Log on your C100 Mk2 and want to keep that in your work flow. Also sounds like you want a B camera to match your C100 Mk2 performance.

If you only need the B-cam to match the A-cam why not get another C100 Mk2? The money you’ll save over the C200 will allow you to add (2) Atomos Ninja Flame monitor/recorders, now you’ll have true HD monitor s on both your camera setups.

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

Hi Kevin,

Yes, I very much like C100 mkii and want another camera to go with it.

I don't think I will get another C100 mkii though because
1) Paying $4K nowadays for 1080P camera seems not a good idea from future proofing point of view.
2) I really want to get access to face AF and movable focusing screen that C100 mkii doesn't have for gimbal/glider work. To get that, I have to get either 5D mkvi or C200.
3) 5D mkvi could be a decent choice with upcoming C-Log update but it has many flows a s a video camera (no waveform, focus peaking, and a whole bunch of other video features). Plus, if I do ever need 4K files, its recording is too biig.
4) As I see now, C200 is the perfect camera for me to complement my C100 mkii. The only one con I see is the price but I think it's a fair deal for the kind of performance one is getting. I am really sure that with the upcoming XF-AVC update this camera will become an even better deal.

I am really leaning towards the C200 now...

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

No camera is "future proof" these days. Buy what you need now because by the time your needs change (eg you start delivering in 4K) there will be better cameras available at lower prices.

C200 does look like a great camera, but consider these 2 factors:

1) You're not going to be shooting RAW for weddings. Unless you absolutely love collecting hard drives, and are ready to add a few thousand dollars worth of CFast cards to the investment price.
2) If you're shooting alongside a C100mkII, your final output is going to be limited to 1080p anyway. So you'll probably end up shooting a lot of things at 1080p in 8-bit 4:2:0.

Canon have recently been notorious for having an "early adopter fee" - ie the camera is often significantly higher upon release, then drops down in price after a year or so. You could probably buy a used C100mkII now, then trade it for a new C200 in 18 months and pay a lot less in total than if you bought just a C200 right now. So unless you really need Raw or 4K right now, you're probably best served by another C100mkII for a while.

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

Hi John,

You do raise a couple of valid points against C200.
I especially don't like the early adopter fee.

IF skipping C200, I would still probably go with 5D mkvi instead of another C100 mkii because of better AF. (face AF especially).
5D mkiv is especially not a bad choice considering I also do pictures and already have 2 5D mkiii's, so it will come in handy for photo only projects as well…

P.S. The most painful part of getting C200 is actually the fact that I have Shogun Inferno and getting C200 is gonna give me almost nothing extra (except 4:2:2 colro space)

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

Yes the external recording options on the C200 don't do much to expand its capabilities unfortunately!

Not sure I'd purchase a DSLR for video at all these days given all the other options available, but if you do stills as well I suppose it makes sense.

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

"2) I really want to get access to face AF and movable focusing screen that C100 mkii doesn't have for gimbal/glider work "

The C100 mkii has Face AF with STM lenses. I use it all the time on the glidecam.

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

Hi Ben Moore,

It has face AF with STM lenses but ti is probably not as good AF inplementation as Canon has nowadays.
That said, I don’t really know, it might actually be good. I guess I should rent an STM lens and see…
Either way, having only STM lenses face AF on C100 is kind of limiting…

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

Your main issue alas I'm afraid is Canon. Its great at colour and auto focus, but frankly terrible at giving you anything you as a Wedding Videographer might actually need. At least below $10000.

The C200 contains a wealth of Professional feature, but codec is either more than you need with RAW or the MP4 100mbps for 30p or 150 if shooting 60p that is forgivable on a GH5 at its price point and specs as a mirrorless hybrid, but shortsighted for a Professional video camera costing 3 times as much. I'd wait and see if updates next year pays dividends.

Then again you have the 5d Mark IV, with log now recently included as a paid extra, but lacking many essential video features, a codec for 4K that's inefficient and a crop to add insult to injury, plus no swivel screen. As a video tool, it fails for any run n gun work and more suited to small Promos and vanity projects.

I think either embrace Canon Cinema cameras and look at the C200 or C300, or else do as many others have done, seek a B camera from either Panasonic or Sony. The 5D Mark IV is for Photographers who do a bit of video on the side, not the other way around alas. Put aside your Canon loyalty and look at other manufacturers.

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

Steve Burkett

That’s for your input.
Yes, you are right, I am a little bit of Canon fan.

That said, I agree that 5D mkiv is not a very good pro video camera solution that's why I don't want to get it, even as a "B" camera.

I am open to other manufacturers offerings. The question is what other manufacturer camera would be a good fit with my current C100 mkii?
I know Sony a7s ii is very popular and while it has amazing video quality which I don't doubt it still has its own shortcomings like short battery life or lack of ND filters.
I have been thinking for a while of actually even selling my C100 and getting 2 A7s ii as easy integration between 2 cameras is important to me.
I don't want to get pre-occupied with different controls while jumping between cameras on wedding day.

I could just buy another C100 but can't force myself to pay $4K for 1080P only camera in 2017.

With the same token I have heard good things about GH5…

Overall, it seems there is no ideal solution here. There is no perfect camera :(

P.S. Thinking about it more, I think the reason I got sucked in Canon Cinema line was because of AF, but in all honesty, I haven't tried other manufacturers video AF cameras.
Furthermore, I don't even use AF much, only on gimbal work.
Maybe other manufacturers are not that bad… I really think I should rent and see how other camera AF are!

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

The A7R Mark II comes close to DPAF, while the A6500 is even better. The A7S Mark II is really poor in that area.

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

The 5D MKIII or MKIV is not a good camera to use with the C100 MKII, the 5Ds appear to be incredibly soft and mushy in comparison to the relatively sharp and detailed images from the C100 MKII, plus 5Ds have stupid DOF issues with a FF sensor. I have cut footage between the two and the 5D footage pales in comparison to the C100 MKII footage.

You would actually have a better color and sharpness match using a Canon XC-15 since it also shoots C-Log and is designed to match. But fixed lens, slow lens, may not work for weddings, which are often not lit adequately and receptions, which are almost always dark it seems. I shoot an 80D and often cut between it and the C100/C300 and it's not a perfect match but we get them fairly close. Prolost Flat on the 80D and a modified Abel Cine 5D Match CP on the C100/300. Personally, I find shooting log on 8-bit cameras to be counterproductive, I think you end up with a better image if you bake it in or even with WDR with some tweaks.

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

Ok guys so my situation has changed a little bit.

I have a C100 and as mentioned before, looking to get a good camera to match it and debating between C200 and 5D mk iv.

Before I used to use Ronin to get dynamic shots at weddings but realized it was too much of a fuss to carry it around.
I tried the Zhiyun gimbal with 70D and 40mm pancake lens on it and loved how much easier it was to use it.
Canon Dual Pixel AF and light handheld gimbal I think mix really really well for run and gun.

Now I think I will use C100 on Monopod/tripod and another camera on Zhiyun gimbal for dynamic shots.
Now my question is should I just stick and stay with 70D on Zhiyun gimbal or is it worth to upgrade to 5D mark iv?
I believe C200 goes out of equation if planning to use it on Zhiyun as might be too heavy/big for that handheld gimbal...

Now bottom line, 5D mk iv or 70D for zhiyun gimbal work?
Would getting 5D mk iv be a big improevement for video quality on gimbal (gonna shoot 1080p only in Canon upcoming 5D C-Log upgrade).
I am a little hesitant to get 5D mk iv because of so much complaining on-line about 5D mk iv as a video camera.
In my situation it seems like the best choice ironically…


P.S. a7s ii would be awesome on that gimal buy I think without Dual Pizel AF It will be useless on that gimbal.

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

for just using on a gimble I would consider the Sony a6300 - cheap as chips, over 13 stops dr, very good af (not quite Canon standard but not far off), wonderful 4k image. It has awful rolling shutter in 4k but that shouldn't be a problem on a gimble and is not an issue in 1080 - although it's the 4k image that is jaw droppingly good
The Canon dslrs you mention are so soft in 1080 compared to the c100 they won't cut very well together. Have used the a6300 with c100 and actually prefer the a6300 image but are fairly easy to match and have similar sharpness when you down res the 4k of the Sony

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

From what I have read the a7rII has a much better AF system but the problem might be more how you would match up color.

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

I read many complaints about the a6300/6500 that the screen dims and becomes near impossible to see when using outdoor in full sun, maybe something worth considering?

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

yes I keep reading this but I see very little dimming on my copy in 4k - I am using slog with gamma display assist on and it seems ok to me. Admittedly I hardly use the screen and haven't done outside in bright daylight, (I prefer the evf especially with my fading eyes) but that is an issue for most camera screens

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

Hi Ade,

Thanks for feedback.
I wonder though weather the C-Log upgrade of Canon 5D mk iv would solve the 1080P softness issue...

You guys can see I am so tempted to get the 5D mkiv but only because of video AF.
I will be honest though, I have never used any other manufacturer video AF.
One thing I am sure of of though. I will rent another camera in addition to 5D mk iv to see how they compare! (A Sony or a GH5...).
This time I am not going to make a blind purchase!

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

Log footage doesn't increase resolution, the only way that I heard of to increase resolution on the mark 3 was when you shot in raw using a hack.

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

To be honest I'd say you'd be better of going for the 5D Mark IV. It has the best AF and has c-log. Better colour match to the C100. Yes the HD is soft compared to the C100 but you have cropped 4K for limited use where necessary as a bonus. Yes you can pick up a Sony or a GH5. Some can handle the demands running a dual camera system can bring. I just think it'll be too much hassle for your setup. As you'd be running the 5D as a B camera, the softer HD is perhaps less an issue than if serving as an A camera.

Of course there are complaints about it. Take my GH5, loads of complaints about AF and justified too. But that hasn't stopped me from using it successfully.

Just reading your comments, I think you really want to go for the 5D, but are just being scared off my internet chatter. Don't be.

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

Hi Steve,
Yes, you got my situation pretty spot on actually!
There might be better camera deals out there but in my situation I think 5D mkiv makes most sense to avoid changing ecosystems and the costs that come with it.
There is so much negative talk about Canon but somehow their cameras still sell the best. There is more to cameras than specs.
Reliability and ease of use in the field trump pure image quality when doing doc work for me every single time.

There is just 2 more alternatives in the Canon ecosystem though.
I could get a C200 that would have the same great AF but my concern is it would look ridiculous on a Zhiyun Crane. Theoretically, if I put pancake lens on C200 Zhiyun crane should easily handle it but I couldn’t balance my C100 on it as the plate threaded hole was too much at the front and through the camera off balance when mounted on the gimbal.

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

you won't be able to fly the c200 on the Zhiyun - too big and heavy - you'll need one of the 2 handle gimbals like the Ronin or if you can afford it I'd recommend the Letus Helix

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

With current pricing as follows (B&H)

C100 Mk II $3499
5D MK IV $3299
C200 $7499

In my opinion it makes the most logical and economical sense to match the C100 MK II with the C100 MK II

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

I have The Ronin plus Ready Rig vest system but don't bother taking to weddings, too big.


I get your logic fully but after trying the Zhiyun gimbal with 70D on it I realized that I used that setup quite a lot (probably for 30% of total shots, with the other 70% with C100 on Monopod), whereas with the bigger Ronin gimbal sometimes I would not even bother taking to weddings.
That Zhiyun experience made me realize that it is an amazing tool and I just want a better camera than 70D to go on it.
The only camera that has better video quality with canon AF is Canon 5D mk iv.

I think I am gonna rent the 5D mk iv this weekend and if nothing goes wrong I will buy it after the weekend

Re: C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii
 

I use a 5dmk4 and a c100II plus a sony Fs5 and with the right custom pic profile on the sony they match up well. I am a Canon guy forever but I have had the sony since it came out and I really like it. I use my canon lenses most of the time, and the camera is very versatile, great picture, ND, wonderful slow-mo, etc. The kit lens does allow for stabilization, face detection, AF and it is pretty good low light, not great but with my canon lenses and a metabones booster I have no problems as it gains a stop on all my lenses. It is super 35 so DOF is better than the 5d's. I also am very happy with matching the DJI osmo+ for most of my gimbal work. I have a full steady cam but they osmo when shot 4k and downsampled is really good. Just a different thought.