C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Works fine until you start recording, then the MAGN button does nothing. Have tried all different recording flavors, same result. Haven't heard if this is an intentional hindering of the camera by Canon or not, or if it will ever be fixed.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

As far as I can tell it's not mentioned in the manual (in which Canon is usually pretty good about mentioning what doesn't work in specific modes), And it's a shame because when shooting interviews on the C300, I always use my samurai for framing and leave the LCD punched in for focus. As others have mentioned on DVXuser, perhaps with all the new focus assist features, this technique isn't the best way to confirm focus (even punched in it's not perfect), and that using the new graphic assists is a more solid approach.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

I completely disagree. After years with the C100/C100 Mark II, MAGN with peaking is absolutely the best way to be completely sure. This "new" way, means "hoping" that everything is in focus when you are using just the camera, and I don't like that.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

:-)

Focusing a 4k image, relying on punch-in with peaking on a 4" .6k LCD screen is "using just the camera" as well. I don't have my camera yet...any day now...so I cannot speak to experience...but several folks I've talked to have said they've learned to trust these newer tools and that it's all good.

(I for one, have never trusted peaking, so I'm one-up on you for being a crotchety "old school is the only way" kinda guy. Give me an optical viewfinder, I'd say, except my eyes are so bad...so really the only way to focus, for me...is a full resolution monitor that I can see from a reasonable distance...otherwise I'm going to have to...trust the camera)

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Not if you're getting a 1:1 representation and can move the box around to pick what you are checking on.

Even if the monitor is full resolution, it would need to be the size to proper demonstrate the resolving power of 4K for you to make use of it. Absolutely nothing makes up for a 1:1 zoom with peaking.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Sorry... I guess my bad. From the manual I read that the punch-in was a doubling of the LCD resolution (not 1:1 even in HD). But if it's a true 1:1, that's certainly a good focus tool for some. I still prefer a full size monitor for critical focus. As far as 4k monitoring on this camera goes though... I doubt many of us will be doing that at least in the near term.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

It may not be exactly 1:1, but even half of that would be helpful for seeing the peaking.

For instance, yesterday I had a situation with a high contrast background (not my choice) and needing to make sure the medium-wide shot was in focus. DPAF was not able to lock on very well due to the circumstances, so I set peaking as well as I could and hoped for the best.

I don't like hoping.

Today I tested the DPAF assisted manual focusing. And it is also iffy, unable to lock on to the subject matter at hand (the indicators wouldn't move as I ran the lens through the gamut from infinity to macro), though full on DPAF worked fine.

This is unacceptable.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

More tests with the camera in low-light situations downtown. Can be really hard to see just the peaking (and even though, the magnified assist WITH peaking is what makes all the difference), and in low-light, the DPAF can be flaky, which also means the Focus Guide doesn't work that well. When it gets flaky, it simply doesn't react to the focus pull, which makes it useless.

I cannot believe that Canon would let it stay like this, but my hope is that we get a fix *much* sooner rather than later.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

For the DPAF to focus your subject needs to be properly exposed. Starve it of light and it will struggle. Every thing is programmed based on a logic. So we need to understand and use these tools accordingly.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

I've just got back from filming in Dubai and had this on the top of my list of things to sort out before the next shoot, as it wasn't working during recording. I have always used the MAGN button to double check focus during the recording of interviews (often the interviewee can change position hence the need to double check focus) so this is a major issue....

I thought I may have overlooked a menu setting and tried everything so am slightly reassured to hear I am not the only one experiencing this issue. I do hope Canon sort this out asap. In the meantime I will have to rely on the Atomos Shogun which fortunately does have a 2:1 magnification option (which can be moved around). But honestly, since the much lower priced C100 has a perfectly working MAGN button it really is unacceptable at this price point to have such a 'bug' as this.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

If you think this thread is good try sitting across from Gary at a coffee shop and going through camera tech... :)

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

I've confirmed this as well on today's shoot; no MAG available during recording. This is really disturbing. What's the point of allowing the MAG to an external monitor now, but not seeing it while recording?!?!

**sigh

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

I have to say, after reading other folks comments re the DPAF and face recognition, I was quite dumbfounded as to how well it worked for me. I brought the camera along to a concert the other night, in a small room with a relatively well lit stage and no other lighting to speak of. I expected the AF would perform well on the stage and it did, even when I was shooting through several microphone stands, the camera always seemed to lock on the person behind those stands...even if it wasn't recognizing a face. Several times I tracked people moving from the stage area into the audience and even though the exposure easily dropped by 3 or more stops, it kept focus until things got really dark at which time it would hunt and lose focus.

Interestingly though, when I ramped the ISO up to 12,800 (my new magic ISO :-) in those dark areas of the crowded room the camera had no trouble locking on and holding a face even with people crossing in front and an otherwise complicated scene. From the beginning I'd expected that this really wouldn't work well, and so I'm really surprised to see that the AF features functions just fine in low light (I was shooting with and 85 1.8 wide open so any misfires were pretty obvious).

Curious though why Gary and others are having second thoughts about it's usefulness. Is it just a case of expectations, or is something else going on. A theory...just a theory, is that it's a contrast issue. I was shooting C-log...which has a relatively steep slope through the midtones...as soon as the person moved further into the shadows the image flattens out a lot and then focus would falter. Increasing gain would fix the problem, so it appears that the camera is looking at the image after processing. I'm curious if shooting CLog2 is more problematic because of its lower contrast.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Because it's not perfect. I absolutely preach the DPAF gospel, but am fully aware of its limitations, and even when I used it heavily on the C100/C100 Mark II, I still made a lot of use out of magnified focus assist. It's simply the best way to confirm focus, and without it I feel like I am merely guessing.

And I hate guessing.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Yeah Gary. I think you've made your point that you'd prefer magnified peaking during recording. I get it. Not suggesting that DPAF is a substitute for that, for you.

I've never met a perfect camera, and I'm damn certain you haven't. :-).... But we all have to work with these abominable beasts, so I think its beneficial to talk about ways we can make them work for us. This camera is new, none of us have a lock on everything about it. I'm just suggesting ways that it's worked for me, and hopefully that benefits others here.

This camera continues to surprise me in mostly positive ways.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Here's a helpful life tip for you, Barry. If you're just going to rudely dismiss someone's answer, then perhaps you shouldn't ask why myself and others have second thoughts?

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Barry, you are correct in stating that if you up the ISO in a low light scene the AF will continue to work for a while till the scene becomes to dark for the DPAF to lock on. That's a bonus.

Gary, it is what it is relating to no magnification while recording. However, you could buy yourself another monitor (smallHD 702) and magnify to your hearts content. I personally don't know how you can achieve focus using the tiny LCD screen on the mark ll when recording at 4K. I have been shooting wildlife at 5K on our Red Epic for almost 4 years using a 9" monitor on camera and a FS 14" monitor with an SDI connection using a Cmotion wireless follow focus system and still find it hard to achieve focus all of the time. On our mark ll I have 2 smallHD 702's. One is used for framing and the other is always in the magnify mode. I would never think to use the included tiny LCD that comes with the mark ll for focusing at 4K at big apertures. In life, when you face a problem, don't sit around and bitch about it. Find a way to resolve the problem and become a better man at the same time. By the way, the smallHD 702 monitors are perfect for this job and the mark ll is the best camera on the market for what we do.

Bill Martz

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Ah, Gary. I love you man. Don't go reading rudeness into any thing I say. It's not intended. (and sorry it was taken that way). There was even a smiley face. And I certainly didn't dismiss your answer..In fact I agreed with it, just letting you know that I get it. So you don't have to tell me any more. :-)

As William says ( welcome, by the way)...and as I said earlier: The best way to ensure focus on these cameras is with an 1:1 monitor. Magnification and peaking is an adequate tool, but it's not 1:1 and regardless...right now we don't have it. Canon monitors these boards, so hopefully we'll see a fix. Until then, bug your dealer, or your rep. I'll reach out to mine too.

Curious though. In your shooting with DPAF on this camera, what gammas have you been working with? I've really been staying away from CLog2 because I'm not ready on the grading side, so I don't really know if my theory is even a possibility. That was my purpose in posting it.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

And I don't accept that. The whole purpose of spending the money to get a C300 Mark II was to get a self-contained professional camera system. The A7R II will do magnified focus assist while recording 4K, at two levels of zoom even. The C100 Mark II, the camera I am upgrading from, will do this as well. The combination of peaking with a magnified zoom is what ensures everything is in focus, and, like I said, otherwise, with simply peaking on the whole scene and DPAF, I can never truly be sure in the field.

Your solution to purchase a SmallHD 702 is simply not workable for me. First, it's an additional $1500 on top of the $16,0000 I spent already on this professional camera. Second, it's now a 7" monitor that must be bolted onto the camera, and it comes with its own batteries that now must be maintained. I have an Atomos Shogun already, but the whole idea was getting away from always needing an external recording for better quality footage from cameras that shoot a version of AVCHD internally, so why would I want to go back to bolting on the Shogun with it's size and heavy L series Sony batteries I now have to charge (and make sure I have a charger for) when I have an expensive camera that should have what I need and not leave me hanging?

Because you don't know how accurate magnified assist + peaking can me. Again, it works great on the Sony A7R II in 4K.

Because you are not using magnified assist with peaking.

On your shoulder? Great that you don't have to worry about that, but run-and-gun shooting is pretty routine for me, in addition to having the light support gear necessary for a solo shooter. Your solution is too much weight, and is both a danger to my physical well-being to have to run like that, and also impractical for use on the lighter-weight support gear I have to transport by myself.

No need to be insulting, Bill. What do you think I'm doing with the camera? You made an erroneous assumption in order to try to be insulting, and that's not cool.

Thanks, Barry. It was out of the blue, and I think your smiley was a bit too much later in the post. I was merely answering your curiosity.

I have been doing that. Constantly.

There is no point in shooting with Clog on the C300 Mark II in my useage of it. I bought the thing to get away from 8-bit and to have more resiliency in the image. To that end, I plan on shooting a lot of 12-bit instead of merely 4K (which I've yet to really be asked for that, it's nice to have, but there will be plenty of 1080/2K shooting for the time being). Clog hinders the full potential of the image, so I'm always on Clog2 at this point.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Clog on the C300 mark ii is 10 bit or 12 bit. Not 8 bit. It's actually quite lovely. In fact...if you don't have a 15 stop scene to worry about, CLog probably has more "resiliency" than Clog 2, as the encoding is closer to where you'll end up. (fwiw, canon claims Clog it has 15 stops of DR as well, albeit with more of it below middle grey in the shadows).

Also, For what it's worth, I tested Clog and Clog 2 with DPAF this afternoon. It works a lot better with CLog, and probably most of the other gammas, than it does with Clog2. In the situations I've used it in, it is faster, and far more accurate than the other imperfect part of the imaging chain (that would be this operator), magnified peaking or not.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Bill Martz:
Gary, it is what it is relating to no magnification while recording.

Gary:
And I don't accept that. The whole purpose of spending the money to get a C300 Mark II was to get a self-contained professional camera system. The Cwill do magnified focus assist while recording 4K, at two levels of zoom even.

Bill Martz:
In that case you should have read the online user manual to discover the lack of magnifying when in the record mode BEFORE purchasing the camera. Also, considering the fact that you brought the A7R II into the discussion as an example was poor judgement.

Gary:
Your solution to purchase a SmallHD 702 is simply not workable for me. First, it's an additional $1500 on top of the $16,0000 I spent already on this professional camera.

Bill Martz:
Again, if you would have done your homework by reading the user manual you could have circumvented your frustration. Secondly, if purchasing a $16,000 camera breaks your business budget you probably should have bought the A7R II .

Gary:
Because you don't know how accurate magnified assist + peaking can me. Again, it works great on the Sony A7R II in 4K.

Bill Martz:
I have been shooting wildlife at 5K on our Red Epic for almost 4 years using a 9" monitor on camera and a FS 14" monitor with an SDI connection using a Cmotion wireless follow focus system and still find it hard to achieve focus all of the time

Gary:.
Because you are not using magnified assist with peaking.

Bill Martz:
If you understood what I wrote in my last post you should realize that our capabilities dwarf yours in respect to technical issues.

Gary:
On your shoulder? Great that you don't have to worry about that, but run-and-gun shooting is pretty routine for me, in addition to having the light support gear necessary for a solo shooter. Your solution is too much weight, and is both a danger to my physical well-being to have to run like that, and also impractical for use on the lighter-weight support gear I have to transport by myself.

Bill Martz:
My opinion is that you bought the wrong camera for your business or you need more help with your jobs. To express it politely, I think you should live within your means which would give you a calmer life.

Gary, I am not trying to be mean or hurtful, I just believe in being rational when having discourse with fellow humans.

Bill Martz

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Clog was optimized for the 8-bit 12-stop C300 Mark I. Clog2 is optimized for the 10-bit 15-stop C300 Mark II. Sure, you can use Clog in all of the modes, but you won't get the most information that can be retained.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

First off, Bill, please learn how to quote properly. It makes your posts hard to process since you can't figure out how to use the "Quote" function at the bottom right of the posts themselves.

Second, the user manual says nothing about magnified focus assist not working during record. I suggest you read the user manual yourself before you try to lecture me about it.

Third, it's not poor judgement at all, and it's asinine of you to even say that sort of thing.

I do own the A7R II in addition to the C300 Mark II. That was very clear in my post to you. Reading comprehension is apparently not your strong suit.

No they don't, but please, share some footage.

Your opinion is clearly erroneous on practically everything you have expressed so far.

Bill, you have yet to display anything rational.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Gary, don't ever change :-). Lets just consider my comments as being for the rest of the people who might be listening in.

For the record, there are many times that CLog would be a better option with this camera. In our preliminary tests with Clog2 we saw banding along a neutral gradated background immediately as we tried to grade it. This is no surprise. There are simply fewer tones available per stop in the mid tones of CLog2 compared to CLog. The CLog on the new camera is vastly improved (mostly due to the extended bit depth but also to the extended white balance range) and in many situations, it may capture all of the range of the scene. (overcast days, controlled studio situations, and really almost any exterior that isn't back lit). It is also far easier to grade, and it works really well with the focusing aids of the camera.

I'm not sure that I personally would ever use CLog2 as gamma of preference in the run and gun situations that Gary describes. To me it's a bit finicky for that, it hampers the use of DPAF, and run and gun generally has a slightly lower set of requirements, usually in the lack of budget for a professional colorist. When we start using CLog2 it will probably be in location interiors where we need to handle direct sunlight through a window, or on the rare occasion when we're shooting into the sun (and for some reason want to hold detail in the sky around it. :-)

To each his own though. What's great about a camera like the C300II is that it offers generally elegant solutions for many types of workflows.

And Gary, you and William should kiss and make up. When the moderators wake up and read that shite from yesterday. You're both going to get a hand-slapping.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Did you use a LUT? The Canon provided one or something like ImpulZ?

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Just clocked into this thread and, sorry to interrupt the arguments but, could one of you lucky C300mk2 owners confirm that there is no magnified focus assist whilst recording even when no autofocus functions have been turned on?

Whilst filming interviews with my C300 I am constantly pressing the magnify button to reassure myself that all is well on the focus front.

thanks

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Hi Mark,

I've heard this reported on other sites, but the answer is no. The way you turn off autofucus as far as I can tell is at the lens (just like canon still cameras) the only features you can turn on and off with the camera are face tracking and the focus guides. Anyway, with everything off, and the lens turned off, you don't get magnification when recording.

While filming interviews, I'd imagine that you'd have your talent well lit. The DPAF with face tracking should be more perfect than you could ever be. If you need more trust than that, then canon offers a second sdi port now, so a full size (or as William mentioned, a small 1080p) monitor is always the best option.

I miss the punch-in too. Because I'd come to rely on it. Canon's added a lot of focusing features that we will, in time, come to rely on. As the punch-in wasn't 1:1, it wasn't perfect, but you trusted it. I think the same will hold true for these newer approaches. For those who are unhappy, hopefully Canon is listening and changes this feature. It's hard for me to imagine it was a "mistake" but rather a decision on their part. The new monitor port has put stresses on the system (for instance, you can't run to HDMI, SDI, LCD and EVF all at once)...so they are probably dealing with some processing management with this one. That doesn't mean it can't be changed. It really hasn't affected my workflow much (I'm more likely to tote a monitor along on interviews), and any deficit it's caused is strongly overridden by many of the new features in my opinion.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

No. I set up a neutral scene "torture test" in the studio with 15-16 stops of range, (12 of those stops were along a sheet of background paper) specifically to see if there were any breaks or weak areas. Canon Log exhibited it's typical toastiness in the highlights, but with much more flexibility and smoothness in the mid-tones and shadows than before. Clog2 has really creamy highlights, flattened mid tones and slightly posterized, noisy shadows. Minor mid tone adjustments to the Clog revealed a low to moderate amount of banding thru the mid-tones. In a normal scene this would never be noticeable, but it would concern me if I was shooting in a lower contrast scene and trying to build contrast through the mid-tones (a really common grade for all log gammas). I don't see Clog2 as a "use it for everything" gamma. Just doesn't make sense to record 15 stops of range when the scene doesn't warrant it. In those situations I'd prefer a gamma with more gradations in the mid tones like the "new" Clog.

That said, I haven't tested the 12bit yet and so I don't know whether there is benefit to that workflow. Theoretically it should have more gradations. But that really depends how clean the signal is coming through the processing pipeline.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Ok - thanks for that information. Sounds like Canon have made a bit of a boo-boo here. It's not a deal breaker but certainly something that would really irritate me and hopefully Canon will put this very basic feature back onto the camera on one of the inevitable future firmware updates.

Re: C300 Mark II No Magnified Focus Assist During Recording
 

Absolutely, and please, sooner rather than later.