What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

I'm still waiting on our c300. But I've already got some new EF lenses to be ready when it arrives.

Here is what I will be using for most of my work. (Quick run and gun shoots all over Europe)

Tokina AT-X 116 PRO DX, 11-16mm, f/2.8
Canon EF 24-70mm, f/2.8 L USM
Canon EF 70-200mm, f/2.8 L IS II USM

I had a chance to play around with a c300 last thursday. After that i decided to also get a
Canon EF-S 17-55mm, f/2.8 IS USM
for sure! A 17-55 EF-S will be great for most run and gun stuff.

Due of the EF-S sensor size, the 24-70L is already bit on the zoomy side.
Also the Image stabilisation of the 17-55 EF-S is great for doing some hand hold stuff, taking out some small hand movements.

Sadly theres no 17-55, F2.8 EF L-Series with stabilisation lense yet. So it will be interesting how well the EF-S lense will hold up over the time and how long it will take till canon makes a L-Series version of it.

What are you planning to use for most of your work?

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

I think Canon needs to ramp up their lens offering for cropped sensors. The 17-55 IS is a sure thing for the C300. It's quite fast and the IS works very well for video work. Same with the 70-200 USM II IS, a must have. Note that the new 2X III is very good and very useful to use with the 70-200. I also have the following:

EF 24mm f1.4L and EF 50mm f1.4, great for sit-down interviews
24-105 f4.0 IS (could be in interesting alternative to the 17-55 for handheld shooting)

I'd like a 85mm f1.4 but Canon does not have one. It's either 85mm f1.2L (bulky and $$$$) or 85mm f1.8 (cheap but not quite a 1.4). Sigma has a 85mm f1.4 that could work quite well.

I'd love to see Canon come out with the following glass:

10-22 f2.8
50-150 f2.8
60mm macro f2.0
16mm f1.4

Take care,

Thierry.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

We'll be using a complement of L primes and zooms...but that 17-55 2.8 IS EF-S looks appetizing. Could be the best everyday handheld lens. I've never handled one. I hope the focusing mechanism is more L-like than the average EF-S lens (doubtful).

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

I wonder if all of Canon's glass is "registered" in the C300?

I have the 5D2 and recently got a 100L IS Macro. I happened to check if Peripheral Illumination Correction was available for the lens, and found that my camera didn't have it. I updated the camera firmware and it still didn't have it. I then called Canon support and found that I needed to run the EOS Utility to register my lenses on the camera. The 16-35L II and 35/1.4L were already registered. The 100L IS Macro and 70-200L II IS were not. Once I located the right buttons, I simply clicked the checkboxes associated with these lenses (and some other lenses that I'm considering in the future) and that solved it.

As I see it there are two approaches:

1) To ensure nailed focus on every shot, shoot at f/4 or tighter. In this case, a good Zeiss kit is probably the way to go. You get nice, long throw focus rings, and there is little falloff to correct by f/4. This is a conservative approach that makes sense on deadline.

2) For natural light shooting, one might want to shoot at f/2.8 or looser on a regular basis. (That said, with 10,000 ISO available, you can still shoot at f/4 and tighter in many conditions.) In this case, Canon lenses with Peripheral Illumination Correction enabled is the only way to go. Of course, at f/2.8 and looser, we get the double whammy of so-so focus rings and shallow DOF that make focus pulling tough. One needs a strategy for working with shallow DOF and Canon lenses (focus with the feet, embrace focus drift artistically, do many takes, frame wide, pray...)

PIC offers two advantages: when panning, you will have less of that "bright sphere" contour effect that can plague 8-bit video. The second advantage is that when color correcting in post, you will get the full 8-bits across the frame. Without PIC, things get dark in the corners and if you boost in post to compensate, you will get contour errors and less than eight bits of information. Add color correction to overly dark corners and things only get worse.

I don't know about the C300 (I assume it has PIC), but on the 5D2, PIC is properly implemented. It boosts the edges and corners before S-shaping, picture style, and 8-bit processing occurs. Yes, you'll get some gain noise out there, but you will get the full 8-bits to work with in post.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

IS is critical. Handheld footage looks great with it. I'm going to sell my 24-70 and use:

17-55mm f/2.8 IS
24-105mm f/4 IS
70-200mm f/2.8 IS MK II

The only L prime I own is the 135. Great lens that I will definitely use from time to time.

I also have the ultrasonics 28mm f/1.8, 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.8. Over time I will sell them and upgrade to L primes.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Another lens to consider is the 100L Macro IS. It's about the same size as the 24-105, but with f/2.8 speed. It's MUCH lighter, smaller, and less attention-grabbing than the 70-200L IS. Having just the 17-55 IS and the 100L IS is an affordable way to get f/2.8 and IS from 17 to 100mm.

BTW, the breathing from 1m to infinity with the L macro isn't bad. From the minimum to 1m? that's another story. :)

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

I've been editing a bunch of handheld stuff for a doc lately, much of which was shot on the 24-105, some on the 24-70 - and I have to say I'm on the fence about the IS. On the one hand it definitely produces a smoother looking shot than the 24-70 because small vibrations are eliminated. On the other hand it has a bad tendency to bounce off the IS limits and create odd looking and very noticeable motion artifacts - something that even low end camcorders have largely eliminated in recent years.

I assume this is simply a side effect of the lens being designed with still photography in mind and not video - and I'm curious whether Canon will take this into account in future IS lenses. Has anyone noticed this with the 17-55? I don't notice it as much on the 70-200, so I assume it varies from lens to lens.

Another minor issue to be aware of is that with a fader ND at full wide (even using a size up, 82mm) the IS will shift the image enough to bring it into the corners sometimes. You just need to zoom in a tiny bit to crop it out, but I tend to forget to do this while shooting more often than not.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

I forgot about the 100mm. I've never used it but I already know it's a must have. Will pick one up this year hopefully.

As far as shooting with IS, I haven't noticed any problems like Evan described. I've shot with all three lenses extensively and always had good results.

As far as the ND goes, it's not needed on the C300 and I've never noticed my UV filter coming into frame so I think we're okay there. I stopped using my vari-ND a long time ago because it ruins the image. I can't wait to return to using internal ND to control exposure again!

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Not sure about the 100mm macro, it's a really odd size for APS-C sensors. Imagine a 150mm macro on a full frame camera. I wish Canon would come out with an EF 60mm f2.0 or even 1.8 macro...

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Zeiss has a 50mm f/2 1:2 macro that could be interesting. You don't get the falloff correction that you get with Canon lenses, but at APS-C, this isn't as big a deal as it is on the full frame 5D2. I haven't used the ZE 50/2, but it's well regarded. It's only a 1:2 macro, but on a crop sensor, that becomes 1:1.25.

diglloyd - Zeiss ZF.2 and Zeiss ZE Lenses For Canon and Nikon - Mini Review: Zeiss ZF/ZE 50mm f/2 Makro-Planar
Zeiss 50mm f/2.0 Makro-Planar T* ZE Lens Image Quality

One concern with macro lenses is breathing. The EF 100/2.8 (non-L) breathed like mad. The 100L seems to be better controlled from 1m to infinity, but I need to check it. I did some test snaps with my 100/2.8 before I sold it, so I should be able to get an objective comparison. I have no idea about the ZE 50/2 breathing.

And, yeah, 100mm on APS-C is definitely in no-man's land. At 160mm equivalent, tt's longer than 135mm on full frame, which is generally regarded as a tight portrait lens. It's also not long enough to be a real sports or wildlife lens. It doesn't accept a 1.4x or 2.0x extender, so that doesn't help.

Then again, it's close to the focal length of Canon's top macro lens, the EF 180/3.5 macro. So the 100L can be used as a traditional macro, for portrait closeups, and as a moderate sports lens. Compared to the 70-200L IS, it's cheaper, smaller, lighter, and stealthier. It has IS, though it lacks the range of the zoom.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Thanks for your take on the 100mm Macro Jon. I actually have a demo coming in for a few days I wanted to try on the 5D and since I just got a C300, it would be a good opportunity to try it on this cam as well.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Yes, good point on using the 100 on a super 35 sensor. One thing I will definitely miss is having a fast ultra wide. I love shooting with the 24 f/1.4 on the 5D. The closest thing I've seen to that would be something like the Red 18mm T1.8.

Anyone planning to use a PL adapter on the EF mount C300? Should work right?

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

I hear you on the wide, fast prime thing. I recently sold my 28/1.8 (and some other mid-grade lenses) to get the 16-35L II (and some other lenses, including the 100L). The 24L II now sits atop my to-buy list.

Regarding the PL mount, as I recall, some PL lenses work on DSLRs; others don't. With the C300 there's no mirror to worry about, so an adapter seems feasible. On the 7D I remember seeing some PL conversions. I'm not sure about a simple, twist-in adapter. Regarding clearances, there's no mirror but I wonder about the ND filters.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

so, i tested my tokina 11-16 today on my c300 and it worked great. surprisingly, the peripheral compensation WORKS!

there is still a very small amount of darkening in the corners i think (it wasnt a scientific test, just pointed the cam at a white wall), but there is a huge difference when you turn the PIC off.

loving this camera so far!

Have a bunch of work booked with it starting this week, so i should have a much better handle on it soon.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

PIC works on the Tokina? I'm surprised and impressed.

I've heard others report that PIC in Photoshop doesn't correct all 11-16mm lenses exactly right. If you look at a number of falloff charts from various lenses, sometimes, individual copies are offset side to side, top to bottom, or corner to corner. The PIC in both Photoshop and the camera would be based on ideal models, so if your lens is a bit off, it won't correct exactly right. In fact, the case I read about had one dark corner.

It's no surprise that would be the case on an ultrawide. With normal and tele lenses, falloff is pretty smooth. On ultrawides, the corners often fall away abruptly.

Still, if you only have one corner to correct in post, that's a win. :)

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

So nobody is going to use PL lenses?????

I personally find AF photo lenses useless for video, as they are very difficult to focus, impossible to rack focus, lose their marks, breath awfully, aren't parfocal, have stepped apertures.. etc, etc.

I know PL lenses are expensive, but the Zeiss CP.2 are quite affordable but still of very high quality and smooth like butter, and even have changeable mounts, so you can go from EF to PL or anything else in the future, preserving your investment specially when they are built like tanks.

Are you planning to rack focus with L lenses??

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

It really depends on the job doesnt it? I've been using canon glass to rack focus for years. It might not be ideal, but with the hard stops that modern follow focuses have, an a competent AC you are fine. Plus the cost of the zooms is SO much lower than te cost of PL zooms. Now, when there is budget for a PL kit, that is something entirely different.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Man, give me a stock C300 body and my choice of 3 or 4 Zeiss CP.2s and I'll be a very happy cinema-verite guy!!!!

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Well I'm going to get a 17-55 AF-s as a run n gun lens. But beyond that I'll probably use my existing Nikon fit lenses as these all have de-clicked manual iris rings.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

I have the 17-55 2.8 IS paired with the 7D and I'm very pleased with its visual, weather and IS performance. If it was EF it would have an L designation.

I wonder:

Has anyone tested, if it can properly cover the C300 frame? Canon doesn't guarantee coverage for all it's
EF-S lenses, since they are 1.6X and not 1.5X like Nikon or Sony.

Is the lens weather sealed with the C300.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

I've just finished a three city tour in Canada with Canon for the launch of the C300. We looked at a couple of EFS lenses and from our rough test it covered the c 300. We had one of the 10-22 on the C300 and it was fine.

Opens up a lot of possibilities

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Does anyone know if there's a magnification factor when using EF lenses?

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

From the EF lenses I used and the numbers that showed as the 35 mm equivalent in the XF utility metadata it's a 1.53 crop factor. 50 mm lens shows as 76.5 in XF utility.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Got my hands on a few C300s at BVE in Earls Court last week. Love how easily you can hand hold it and those oh so lovely images it creates with ease.

I too have the excellent Canon 17-55mm F2.8 IS EF-S and indeed a Canon 10-22mm EF-S, Canon 100mm Macro F 2.8 Hybrid IS and the Canon 70-200mm F4 IS, all currently for my 7D.

Not sure if I can stretch my budget yet to buying the C300 but I sure am interested in this thread.

Now my question. How come the Tokina 11-16mm mentioned earlier does give slight frame corner darkening but the "extra mm wideness" on the Canon 10-22mm was fine? There is something I don't fully understand with that - and it won't be the first time that's happened!

Edit - Thinking about this some more, surely if one Canon EF-S lens works then surely they should all work as they will all be designed to produce an image on the sensor of a designed and definite size. Maybe the very slight corner darkening on the Tokina is because that lens is designed to fit Nikons and Canons (which I believe have slightly different crop sensor sizes). Let me know if this is rubbish!

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Hi Andy,

Canon has built-in Peripheral Illumination Correction in the 7D for Canon lenses, but not for 3rd party lenses. From what I've read, the C300 includes PIC for some 3rd party glass too.

I find PIC to be a very important feature in video mode. Yeah, it will still amplify sensor noise as it boosts the corners, but it's done with the full bit depth signal, so there's no amplification of quantization or block noise. PIC is also applied before any S-curve from the picture style is applied.

If you shoot with good lenses at f/4 or tighter, it's no big deal. However, when shooting wide open, PIC is a very nice feature.

It would be interesting to get a list of lenses with C300 PIC support.

BTW, you might check that your 7D includes profiles for all of your Canon glass. If any are missing, use the EOS utility to load the profiles into the camera. On the 5D2, neither the 100L or 70-200L IS II were loaded by default.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Thanks Jon. Useful and interesting information. Now I understand it. Great place this!

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Andy,
The NIKON are 1.5X crop while the Canon is slightly smaller at 1.6X* . That means that Nikon DX or other manufacturers (Tokina, Sigma, Sony etc) lenses, cover more than the Canon's EF-S lenses and are more suitable for C300 which S35 frame is larger than both DX and EF-S frames. That of course is a generalization and each lens must be tested individually. Hence and my question above, regarding the EF-S 17-55 2.8.
The darkening of the corners could be inherent in the design of Tokina (wide open most wide lenses exhibit vignetting) and have nothing to do with the coverage of the lens. That has a PIC in C300, is measure of its popularity. These days manufacturers design their lenses with digital correction in mind, essentially making them unsuitable for system migration. 3rd party lenses like Tokina, try to comprise between Canon and Nikon systems. Traditionally they are designed to suit better the Nikon system than the Canon one, but don't right that on stone.

I think Canon ought to inform its professional customers which EF-S are fully compatible with C300, which not and in what way.



*Don't think I made a mistake. A smaller sensor needs bigger multiplier to achieve the area of a FF sensor.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

A listing of Canon lenses compatible with the C300.

http://cweb.canon.jp/cinema-eos/spec.../structure.pdf

Mark

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Ugh. I was afraid of that.

So a 24mm PL on a PL camera is a true 24mm. Whereas a 24mm EF on the EF camera is actually 36mm.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

If I understood well what you said I think you are wrong. A 24mm is a 24mm and on a C300 sensor is going to look like a 36mm on a 35mm full frame still sensor no matter its mount.
EDIT I mean the parameters are the focal of the lens (mm.) and the size of the sensor, not the mount.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Focal length is focal length. It is a measure of how strongly the lens converges light or it's magnification power. It does not matter how big the sensor, mount, or anything else. Focal length is what it is. So I can take a 8mm C mount lens and stick it on a 75mm film camera and it will still be an 8mm lens. However on the 75mm camera only the tiniest circle in the centre of the frame would be illuminated by a lens designed for C mount applications (typically 2/3" or 16mm film maximum).

It is the size of the sensor that governs the field of view (FOV). A bigger sensor will have a wider field of view, assuming the lens can illuminate the entire sensor. So it's really important to think about the magnification or crop factor as applying to the camera, not the lens.

Talk to a film cameraman and to him (or her) a 50mm lens is a 50mm lens. The film guys know that they will have different FOV's depending on whether they are shooting S35, S16, 75mm etc, but they will still refer to the lens as 50mm. This prevents confusion. If you start talking about this lens being the equivalent to that lens it just adds to the confusion as it's dependant on the camera, not the lens. It would be better to say that "x" camera is the equivalent to "y" camera with a 30% increase in FOV.

Sorry, bit of a bee in my bonnet about this as I find it extremely confusing when people start asking me to shoot with a focal length the equivalent of....... Unless you know how big the sensor you have is compared to the sensor they are referring to it can be confusing. Really we should all be talking about FOV in degrees, then there would be no confusion, but that's not how us video guys have been brought up.

Super35 and the C300 are more or less the same size. So a lens on a S35 film camera will give the same FOV on the C300. However there are different sizes of 35mm movie frame, not just S35 and most good PL lenses can cover all of the different 35mm movie standards, but with slightly different FOV's.

Any lens manufacturer adding a multiplier to the true focal length of the lens should be shot for adding to the confusion.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Much to my surprise PIC on the C300 works with the rather horrid 18-55mm IS EF-S kit lens supplied in many of Canon's DSLR kits. Just as well as it's really dark in the corners!

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

I completely understand what you are saying. However, if you are used to an 18mm on a 35mm camera and you want an equivalent using an EF lens than you have to take that into consideration.

"What do you mean the lens isn't wide enough? It's an 18mm for crying out loud!" My response, "I understand, but a 18mm EF lens on a a C300 looks more like a 28mm."

So, if I were buying a PL C300 I would want in my kit a 24mm, a 35mm, a 50mm and an 85mm. However, if I were buying an EF C300 and plan on using EF lenses than my kit would have to change to a 18mm, 24mm, 35mm and a 50mm.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

That's not quite right. For a 5D2 or other full frame camera, you might want 24, 35, 50, and 85, but for an APS-C or Super 35 camera you would want 18, 24, 35, and 50. The mount doesn't change things. The target market doesn't change things.

As an example, on a full frame still camera, a 50mm is a normal lens. On a medium format camera 50mm is wide. On a large format camera, it's ultrawide. On a crop or Super 35 camera 50mm is a moderate telephoto. On a 1/3" camera, it's a long telephoto. Whether the 50mm lens was made for a small spy cam or an observatory, a 50mm lens will always behave as I just stated on the various camera formats.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Although I don't understand Japanese, I think is a list of all Canon lenses that can be attached to the camera, not a list of lenses that fully cover the image area of the sensor.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

But that's not right. A 24mm PL mount lens is the same as a 24mm EF-S lens. So if you want the same FoV on both the PL version or the EF mount version you would want lenses with the same focal length. As I said, a 24mm lens is a 24mm lens, no matter what the mount and as the sensor is the same on both versions of the camera, you want the same focal lengths. The conversion factor applies to the Field of View of the camera IF it is needed, the focal length of the lens does not change.


The confusion comes from the fact that when people talk about 35mm film based stills cameras and full frame sensor DSLR's (like the 5D), the film frame is larger than a 35mm movie camera (or APS-C camera). This is because in a stills camera the film runs east-west (horizontally), so the frame size is governed by the height of the film and the frame can be quite wide. In a 35mm movie camera the film runs north-south (vertically) so the frame size is restricted by the film width. As we shoot images that are wider than they are tall, this means that the movie frame, restricted by the width of the film, must be smaller than the stills frame.

So yes if you put a 24mm lens on a 35mm film stills camera or a 5D the field of view will be 30% wider than if you put that same 24mm lens on S35mm movie camera, C300, F3, FS100 etc. But it's still a 24mm lens whether Arri PL or Canon EF-s and a 24mm lens on a S35mm film camera will give approximately the same FoV as a 24mm EF-S lens on a C300.

A film trained DoP or Cinematographer won't think in terms of conversion factors as for him/her a 24mm lens is a 24mm lens and the FoV he is used to seeing on his 35mm movie cameras will be almost exactly the same as he will get on a S35 video camera.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Alistair is correct.

It's been a confusing couple of years with the DSLR's and their different target sizes, but we are getting back to some semblance of order again with the new cameras conforming to the Super35 standard (give or take). Few things were more confusing than the gigs I did with combinations of the 5D, 7D and 1D (sometimes all three) where I had to constantly calculate which primes should go on which camera. I look forward to the end of all that...for the time being!

I have a feature coming up in April and I'm strongly considering the C300 for it. I'll be well covered with my Aluras (and will probably add a set of CP2s for handheld/Steadicam) assuming I can get the PL version of the camera, but it's risky considering it's only due to ship just a few weeks before our start date. I could still go EF with the CP2's, or even my ZE's (considering I'd make the rental, probably would go that route) but the dearth of cinestyle zooms with EF mount is a problem. Not sure when the Canons will emerge into the wild. Too many factors to make this easy. Sure wish the mounts were field-swappable.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

I'm working on getting a translation of that section.

From the Canon FAQ page....

What different EF lenses can I use with the EOS C300?
The EOS C300 is compatible with the following:
All Canon EF lenses (including Tilt-Shift, MP-E, etc.)
Canon EF-S lenses (there may be some visible vignetting with certain EF-S lenses)
Canon Cinema EF lenses – zoom and fixed focal length

Will all Canon EF lenses work with the C300?
Yes. Every Canon EF lens, including special-purpose lenses such as TS-E (tilt-shift), macro and MP-E lenses, fisheye lenses, and Canon super-telephotos will mount on the EOS C300 camera.

How does peripheral illumination correction work for EF lenses?
Peripheral Illumination Correction automatically corrects for any lens vignetting, accounting for specific lens characteristics such as focal length, working aperture, and distance setting. This produces even illumination across the frame, from center to corner. Canon engineers thoroughly test different Canon EF and EF-S lenses, map-out the specific vignetting characteristics of each lens, and this data is input into the camera. As images are taken, the camera records this information, and lens-specific correction is applied during in-camera processing to minimize the natural darkening that would otherwise occur toward the edges of video images.

Which EF lenses are compatible with the C300's peripheral illumination correction?
The EOS C300 stores Peripheral Illumination Correction Data for approximately 96 EF and EF-S lenses.

With reports that the ultra wide EF-S 10-22mm is okay on the C300 and the fact that over 90 lenses have PIC data in the camera already to address the issue of vignetting, it almost sounds like a non-issue. Probably why there's no list of unacceptable lenses is it's down to personal preference of how much vignetting is objectionable.

Around here we just use the term 'apparent focal length' when discussing a particular lens on a crop factor camera. Everybody wins.


Mark

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

Since in the list there are only 71 lenses, there must be PIC's for defunct or non Canon lenses as well, to justify the 96 profiles.

Re: What kind of lenses are you planing to use
 

So basically the same lens on a C300 has roughly the same FoV as the same lens on the C300-EF. Or roughly .90 of it.