Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Blackmagic Design just announced the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2, which is at the same $345 price point as the original unit. It now supports DNxHD 220 10 bit over 3G HD-SDI and HDMI in/out. That really turns the corner on pricing of external recorders. While the original unit was the same price, it only offered uncompressed.

Ned Soltz

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Thanks Ned.

Probably a dumb question but: can you do 444 RGB using 3G out to Shuttle?

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

I don't believe so. The original Shuttle only supported YUV 4:2:2 and my guess is the same is the case with the 2. The website is incomplete at the moment as the product was just announced. So I'm basing my info on the press release and some info from their PR manager.

Ned

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Thanks Ned.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Keep in mind BMD are still working out the bugs with the DNxHD implementation and I would suggest the system isn't quite ready for prime time right now. There are audio sync issues with their implementation of the AVID codec that they are working on right now.

Definitely still a BETA release but very exciting.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 Press Release:

Blackmagic Design: View Press Release

Same retail price.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

At this price and now with DNxHD it's outboard recording for everyone.

How does it compare to Pro-res quality wise?
And what about Using the files in fcp?

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

The only flavor of DNxHD that will be used in the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 is 4:2:2 10-bit 220mbps.

So... now we have a $345 compressed/uncompressed recorder and SDI<->HDMI converter, this is simply getting too tempting to pass up on.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Shuttle 2 + SmallHD DP6 Monitor = perfect.
5.6" Small HD LCD Monitor, On Camera Field Monitor - the DP6 by SmallHD

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

I would have rather seen them license Cineform's codec, but DNxHD can be read by a wide variety of software and the quality loss is minimal, unless you do a bunch of generations:

Avid | DNxHD Codec - Beauty Without Bandwidth

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

I should add here that the MXF wrapper may be a problem for non-Avid NLEs. That can be overcome by rewrapping (not transcoding) the MXF file to MOV. The easiest way that I know of, as to how to do that is (at least for the Windows OS) to use ffmbc, the broadcast version of ffmpeg. The already compiled Windows binaries can be downloaded at:

ffmbc Windows binaries

Use the command line:

ffmbc -i filename.mxf -vcodec copy filename.mov

This will just rewrap the video and should be almost instantaneous.

Once you have a DNxHD MOV file, download & install the Avid QT codec:

Avid QuickTime Codecs LE 2.3.4 Download

This will allow pretty much any editing package that can use Quicktime to read the DNxHD MOV file. If anyone has a better workflow, let me know.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Wait, this is DNxHD wrapped in .MXF rather than .MOV? Now that's bad, I think only Media Composer supports that wrapper, someone should send a quick letter to BM to change that!

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

I can't imagine why the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 would do just MXF, but you never know. Even if it only does MXF, the re-wrap is a trivial one step exercise.

Blackmagic Design broke the link to the original Press Release. Here's the link again:

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/pre...eleaseID=26817

It states that the Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 outputs uncompressed Quicktime (MOV) and DNxHD MXF files.

I can see why the video industry might have a spectrum of codecs, but why can't they agree on a common wrapper? For the longest time, the Microsoft wrapper format (AVI) and Apple QT (MOV) were competing. As more metadata and track types were added, it became necessary to "modernize" the wrapper. MXF seems like the best option, but I don't care, as long as I can use it without having to do computer gymnastics.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

I aquired a new Shuttle 2 yesterday.
The first thing I did was update the firmware from Blackmagic_HyperDeck_Windows_2.0_Beta to Blackmagic_HyperDeck_Windows_2.0_RC2. I spent 24 out the last 36 hrs trying to get the DNxHD option to work but no luck.
All I got was garbage.

While waiting 24hrs for a trial version of Avid Media Composer to download, I tried converting the MXF wrapped files to MOV using the following: Mainconcept, Reference & PPro CS5 plugins, Carbon Coder, Avid Metafuze, Calibrated MXF plugins and several consumer type MXFConverters. No luck.
Garbage.

Finally got Avid MC downloaded and installed. Imported a fresh recording of DNxHD.
The result, garbage.

I tested the Uncompressed MOV recording option and it was fine.
I'm waiting to hear back from Black Magic Design as to what the issue might be.
I'm guessing the firmware is no quite working yet.
Such are the hazards of early adoption.

p.s. The DNxHD files playback fine from the Shuttle to a TV via HDMI.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Do you have access to a Win 7 system and did you try the simple rewrap that I posted above? I've tried it with DNxHD 220 MXF files (not from the Shuttle 2 obviously) and it does work. If that approach doesn't work, I would say that BMD better get to an RC3 firmware.

My Hyperdeck Shuttle 2 has been shipped by B&H, but I don't expect it until tomorrow. I'm guessing that my luck won't be any different, but I'll let you know if I figure out anything. BTW, I'm using V2.37 of the Avid QT codecs.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Hi Jay.
I did try the ffmbc rewrap method but couldn't get it to work.
I also tried a gui named "AnotherGUI" that made it easier, but still didn't rewrap successfully.
I would be very interested in getting this going.

This is the command I used without the gui:
C:\>ffmbc -i D:\MXF\Capture0000V.mxf -vcodec dnxhd D:\MXF\Capture0000V.mov
This gave error messages:
material track 2: no corresponding source package found
material track 3: no corresponding source package found
clip wrapping without index is not currently supported
Could not find codec parameters <Video unknown <0X0000>, 1920x1080>

I tried adding -s hd1080 but still no luck.

Can you help?
Regards,
Paul

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

I have been using ffmbc to convert nano flash .movs to mp4 for use on windows premiere.

Try something like this it should leave the codec and just rewrap it. The -an disables audio just so you can test the video then work from there

C:\>ffmbc -i D:\MXF\Capture0000V.mxf -vcodec copy -an D:\MXF\Capture0000V.mov

Otherwise I think you need to specify the bitrate next to the dnxhd command. All the documentation I've seen refer to this a re encoding which I don't think is necessary as it should just be a re wrap.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Thanks Simon.
I tried this but no change to errors, which is strange.
I would expect the -an command to deal with these 2 errors:
material track 2: no corresponding source package found
material track 3: no corresponding source package found
Since there are 2 audio tracks associated with the video in the same folder.

I already tried the dnxhd 185 parameter but no change.

If I can get this to work it would be great.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

This discussion has also been going on "the other board."

To use these files, you need to drop them into AvidMedia -> MXF folder. Good idea to create a new folder for each project. In that MXF folder, files are numbered sequentially from 1. Use the Tools -> Media Tool in MC or Symphony to locate and load the file into your bin.

These are Avid MXF files as opposed to an MXF wrapper.

So far, I can't figure any way to use them other than in Avid. You could then transcode out of Avid, of course.

Ned Soltz

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Thanks Ned.
Now I have it working.
The Shuttle files work in Avid MC.
No CUDA in MC.
I hope this doesn't remain the only way to work with Shuttle DNxHD clips.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

It's 11 PM Eastern time here in the US and I just got home. My Shuttle 2 was sitting there waiting for me and I got as far as converting the SSD to HFS+ with MacDrive. I'm going to be in NYC the next four days, so no tinkering for me until next Monday. As to ffmbc, I see Simon Preston gave you the same command line as I originally did. Note that you need the "-vcodec copy" option (not dnxhd) or you possibly don't get a rewrap:

ffmbc -i filename.mxf -vcodec copy filename.mov

I would also try putting the mxf file in the same folder as the ffmbc executable and see if dropping the path info helps. I'll play around with this on Monday, once I get the Shuttle 2 working properly with uncompressed MOV files and then I'll tackle the DNxHD MXF files. Given your experience, I'm not hopeful about ffmbc or anything else other than an Avid software solution to reading the MXF files.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Thanks Jay.
I did try this command:
C:\>ffmbc -i D:\MXF\Capture0000V.mxf -vcodec copy D:\MOV\Capture0000V.mov
but it didn't work.
I just tried putting the .mxf in the same folder as the exe but no luck, same errors.
I did not have any experience of ffmbc until your suggestion so I don't really know what I'm doing.
Maybe an experienced hand can make it work.

Uncompressed quicktime is easy to import, and plays back easily if your system has the right specs.
Works well in Premiere.

I'm looking forward to your experiences with DNxHD.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

When i re-wrap the mxf to .mov in MC6
and put the file in fcp i get a higher luma image when i pause on the picture.
The timeline is DNxHD.
Anyone can try the same?

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Is there any other free option for using these mxf files ?

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

I just got home and I duplicated this error, so we aren't any further to resolving this problem at the moment. The video MXF file's metadata must have some reference to the two audio files that needs to be accommodated in the ffmbc command line options. I'll work on it further tonight. We here in NY are still recovering from the Superbowl. 8-)


Edit: Note that someone has asked the author of ffmbc to tackle this issue. The link is to the ffmbc Google user group:

http://groups.google.com/group/ffmbc...2fba39aa1a0995

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Good move Jay.
It would be great to have a solution to this.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

I even made a donation to the ffmbc project. I think that the problem is the mapping among the individual streams in the 3 input MXF files and the output file (That's probably the source of the indexing error). I'm not that familiar with ffmbc, but it is derivative from ffmpeg and I've had trouble before when muxing files with the -map option with ffmpeg. It's not a bug; it's just complicated when you have multiple files and multiple streams.

But beyond that, ffmbc seems to be having trouble recognizing the MXF video file metadata's codec as DNxHD. There is an open source freeware library MXFLIB, which you can use to do relative simple tasks with MXF files. I used it to dump out the metadata from a Hyperdeck Shuttle MXF file that I recorded, but I didn't see anything unusual.

It's best to let the experts try to come up with a solution to this.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Calibrated{Q} MXF Import v2.2.0 Windows
allows Premiere to play(and edit) Shuttle .mxf files.
Also makes qt ref files.
Just tried the demo.
Full version $199 Calibrated Software Windows Bundles Store

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

That seems a bit steep for what it does, but there doesn't seem to be any other option. I found some information that indicates that at least back in June, 2011, ffmbc didn't support the input mxf files in the op-atom (multiple video and audio files) format:

Issue 49 - ffmbc - Can't transcode SMPTE 390M OP-ATOM MXF audio - FFMedia Broadcast - Google Project Hosting

This is why ffmbc works fine with single DNxHD mxf files and not those from the Shuttle.

We'll have to see what the author comes up with, I guess. In mean time, I'm going to use uncompressed mov files and transcode them to Cineform.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

It does appear to work, but the specs say that it is considered a beta for Hyperdeck hardware. Also, it opens the Shuttle MXF files as three separate files in PPro 5.5. Is that how it worked for you? It's too bad that they don't sell the MXF Importer separately from the decoders, as you don't need the decoders to open the DNxHD MXF files. I also sent you a PM about this.

J

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Yes, I agree it's steep for what it is and I balk at paying for extras I don't need too.
The calibrated documentation says the Shuttle firmware is beta, but the new Shuttle firmware is non beta.
Looking forward to new options with the shuttle.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Hi Jay/Paul,

Thanks for the interest in our software!

Hopefully I can answer your questions below:

Per BETA support for BMD DNxHD MXF files – the reason this is considered a BETA feature is that we developed support using BMD DNxHD MXF files supplied by a couple of users as well as files we captured using our own HyperDeck Shuttle we purchased. Since development of this feature was very fast , and all of the DNxHD MXF files used during development were captured using BETA HyperDeck Firmware and independent of any help from BMD is why we consider the feature BETA. BMD did just come out with release firmware for the HyperDeck but it was not tested in time for this release, and at this time we do not have an ETA on when this feature would not be BETA in our software.

Per opening the 3 different MXF files in PPro – PPro is opening the Audio MXF Files natively without our software but then PPro asks Calibrated{Q} MXF Import to open the DNxHD MXF file because it is not a MXF file that PPro understands. Since we don’t know how well defined the BMD file capture structure is for their DNxHD MXF files (with two Audio-only MXF files), or how well defined the file/folder naming structure of the BMD DNxHD MXF files is one of a few reasons why we choose not to have our software also attach the two Audio-only MXF files when the DNxHD Video Only MXF file is opened.

Per selling Calibrated{Q} MXF Import for Windows as standalone – if we did sell it as stand-alone it would be the same price of $199.95 as we look at it from a different perspective in that we’re giving a free license of Calibrated{Q} DVCProHD Decode with a purchase of Calibrated{Q} MXF Import for Windows (and hence selling as a bundle).

I hope that answers some of the questions.

If you have any more questions you can always email us at

info [at] calibratedsoftware [dot] com

Cheers
Greg

Calibrated Software

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Thanks Greg.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

You're welcome Jay - happy to help.

Cheers,
Greg

Calibrated Software

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Thanks Greg.
I appreciate that you independently provided a solution for the import of Shuttle DNxHD into non Avid NLE's.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

@ Paul Kapp - I've noticed that the audio files from the Calibrated [Q} MXF Importer tend to be longer in duration than the video file, when I opened them in PPro 5.5. Did you get the same result? My system is a Win 7 x64 dual Xeon and only a year old, so I don't think that is the problem.

Anyway, I figured a temporary way around this problem, at least for me. I also have a BMD Intensity Pro, so I just played the MXF file on the Shuttle and captured it. That worked like a charm, except with Cineform's HDLink (most recent version from Go Pro Studio Professional), which ended up having the audio almost inaudible. PPro (BMD 8 bit MJPEG codec) and VirtualDub x64 (uncompressed) both worked fine, though.

@Greg Booth - I can't post a link here, but someone posted some short test files from the Shuttle 2 on a Google User Group message board.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Hi Jay,

Calibrated{Q} MXF Import is not importing the Audio MXF files into PPro - from all our tests, PPro is importing the Audio MXF files natively- Calibrated{Q} MXF Import is only importing the video MXF files.

One of the problems could be the lack of a timecode track in the Audio MXF files if it was captured from a HDMI source (we list this in the User Guide). Without a TimeCode Track in the Audio MXF Files, it may be sampled at the wrong framerate when imported into an application (depends greatly on the application).

I didn't find the link on the BMD message board but if you email me the link at

info [at] calibratedsoftware [dot] com

I'll take a look at the files tomorrow to see if this is the case. Or if you have Video/Audio MXF files that have this problem then we can take a look at them too.

Cheers
Greg

Calibrated Software

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

I misspoke as to the location of the files, but I did send you the correct link.

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

HI Jay.
Yes I noticed the audio were much longer than the video files but remember that Calibrated Q demo truncates the video, and as Greg says, PPro imports the audio natively.
Could this be the reason for the audio file difference?

Re: Hypderdeck Shuttle 2 Supports DNxHD
 

Yeah, after I posted that, Greg emailed me and pointed that out as the reason. I didn't realize that his importer didn't handle the audio, but in hindsight that makes sense, because PPro can already import a PCM MXF file. Also, Greg pointed out that the Importer works with Vegas Pro, but you have to open the QT reference file, not the MXF. I probably should have RTFM more closely, as it is documented in there.

Did you see that Baptiste Coudurier posted that he would be willing to quickly put the rewrap feature in ffmbc, if enough people supported it?

J