Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

My Samurai isn't giving me anything from the headphone out port when I record, only when I playback. Anyone else having this problem, or have a solution?

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

It (apparently) works with about 3 or 4 of the 100s of SSDs that are on the market. And the 3 or 4 that work were introduced 12/18 months ago, and are difficult to source so you have to buy something else that you don't know if it'll work.

Of course.. you don't know it's not recording, because there is no display on the unit, just a variety of lights that flash in patterns. You could easily just check the manual to see what the particular flashing light pattern indicates, but there is no manual. You could plug in a display and press the "DISP" button, and then read the onscreen display, but the "DISP" button doesn't do anything.

I have two of them for different applications, and suffice to say I am not a fan. I cannot return them, but I will be selling them both.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Manual is here.
Blackmagic Design: Support Detail

SSD drives:
The following SSD's are recommended for uncompressed video capture:

OCZ 240GB Vertex 3
OCZ 480GB Vertex 3
Crucial 256GB C300
Kingston 64GB SSDNow V+
Kingston 128GB SSDNow V+

The OCZ's are readily available on Amazon or Newegg as well as other outlets.
They also have to be formatted as HTF.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

I guess I must have missed the manual in the box. Not for lack of looking.

I have used the Crucial and the Kingston, neither with long-term success (although they will occasionally work).

Regardless, I was downright thrilled to see that the Samurai worked out of the box, and will hold hours of footage on the same drive that the BlackMagic would hold 30 minutes on... if it could record for 30 continuous minutes, which it can't.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Well, good to hear that you are having success with the AtomOS

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I think you'll find that this is primarily a ProRes issue. In every test I have ever done with ProRes (using PC's, Mac's and other external recorders), the first pass encode to ProRes adds noise not present in the original. In addition not all ProRes encoders are equal, some perform better than others. I'm waiting for the DNxHD option as DNxHD should be much less noisy.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Curious to know what you find out about the DNXHD option, since I still do all my editing on Avid.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Alistair what happens when you try to import native Avid files into Premiere?

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

I was able to get outside and shoot some nice footage at the park. Granted, my subjects were ducks and geese who were pan-handling bread from my wife and daughter. But the results seem quite good.

I shot with -3db of gain on the XLh1 and the Pro-res 422 option. I thought this was the best setting but it turns out the HQ is. Regardless, the footage was superb. It seems overly sharp when editing on my PC....almost like edge enhancement, but all footage viewed on my PC monitor over the years looks much worse than when viewed on a good HDTV.

As such, I was initially concerned but after outputting to h.264 and vieweing on my TV I am elated. The footage looks brilliant with great colors and no signs of compression. I filmed a good amount of ducks swimming in the lake and the sun was reflecting and none of the HDV artifacts are present (obviously). So far so good.

Using the Control L is working great so far. I shot aproximately 45 clips and it never missing or behave badly. The audio out of the XLh1 via analog to analog on the Samurai worked great so far.

FYI, when I filled up my HDV tape (Rolling as a backup) the Samurai just kept going. Even when I hit the record button to stop, it didn't. So it would appear that the Control L trigger only works if there is a tape inserted. Unless I am mistaken. I had to manually stop the Samurai via the screen. If you don't want to use HDV tape in an older tape based camera you may need another option. I shot most of the day in an ENG over the should style so reaching up to initialize a recording everytime would have been a pain.

Also, the LCD panel is a waste out in broad daylight as it is far too dark to use. I just left it on the "Menu" screen and referenced it from time to time to verify it was recording. It always was. Also, the screen seems rather dark. What I see in my EVF is much brighter, and closer to what I get when recorded. The brightness needs a boost, and I cannot wait until some of the "field monitor" features are enabled in future firmware updates. Still, I cannot recommend this to replace a good field monitor at this point. But for the price....it can't be beat as an "added feature".

I also shot an outside tree lighting ceremony last night, and it was dark! I had no choice but to crank the gain to +12. I knew it would be noisy, but I figured I'd try. Well I was right. The footage was full of grain it looked pretty bad. However, when I applied the NeatVideo noise filter, it cleaned up phenomenally! I think that the footage is more robust so it had more room to manipulate it. I need to try it on HDV of the same clip but I cannot imagine that it will turn out nearly as well.

Well...I will keep you posted as I move forward with the camera and samurai combo. I wish I was running this on an F3 or even an FS100 though. Oh well. I am amazed at the quality of the images. All this and I wasn't even shooting in the HQ mode after all! I'll give that a try.

Thanks all.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Marty...sweet!! I haven't taken mine out for 'a go', yet. I'm looking forward to it. My plan is to take my rig out to the wildlife refuge, hopefully I'll catch some good views of the White Pelicans, maybe a Bald Eagle, I saw one the last time I went fishing. The panorama is stunning during the 'magic hour'.

I have a question, if you don't mind? How did your PC behave while transferring to files to your NLE. Was it cooperative? Did you use QuickTime Player? In the 'User Manual' I haven't seen any reference to 'QuickTime', I'm wondering if Atomos has done away with the need to use QT to trans-code the ProRes?

Thanks,

J.

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Marty...

Thanks for the update ! Promising to hear that the analog audio works well. We too...have an original XLH1. I still like having the HDV tape as a backup. Digital is great but still too many little things can go wrong. So it's also good to hear that the lanc connection works well.


How did you connect the RCA's to the Samurai ? It seems it has two inputs? Both look like mini connections ?

How was the battery life on the Samurai ?

Thanks for the updates !!

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

One 1/8" mini input, one 1/8" mini output. As I mentioned earlier in the page, I plugged my headphones into the output and couldn't get anything... don't know if this is my unit, or a systemic problem.

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Mike- Have you enabled headphone output for the channels you are recording? Right above the record
button for each channel is a headphone button which must be switched on to get output of that channel to the phones.

Marty- You say “Using the Control L is working great so far.” Which LANC controller are you using? I have tried a couple of controllers with my XL H1 and neither will trigger the Samurai nor pass through to the camera. Are you perhaps not using a controller and just connecting the camera LANC to the Samurai LANC IN and triggering the camera manually to start the Samurai? This is working for me. I would like to hear from anyone that is using a Canon compatible LANC controller to trigger the Samurai directly (understanding that it must also be terminated at the camera).

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Sorry. I am using camera to trigger the samurai at this point. I have not tried with any kind of actual lanc controller that you mount on a tripod. I might need this in the future so will be watching intently to see if you resolve this.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

FYI, You cannot power the Samurai by plugging it in. You must use the batteries, and change them out when they run low. It does appear you can run it continuously, if you swap one battery out and charge it while running off the other one.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Mike...I 'think' Marty is referring to the Time Code actuation available on the 'Samurai', it allows HD-SDI 'Trigger Record' to 'start and stop' recording.

J.

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I know it looked like I was responding to him, but mine was just a stream of consciousness statement. I had been hoping/assuming you could plug it in to A/C power, and you can't. (Directly, at least). Just wanted to share that.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Aaaahhh. I understand, I'm sorry for the confusion.

J.

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I am getting no love triggering the Samurai to record via LANC. Anyone else get it to work? The device I am using has been able to trigger many makes of camera (Canon, Sony) so I am confident it works. Are there flavors of the LANC protocol that I am unaware of?

Also, the Samurai manual (page 13) states this for LANC control:

There are 5 ways to start and stop record.

4. Via LANC for Sony and Canon Cameras
5. Via the LANC serial port
controlled by a third party computer or controller.
For system and OEM integration, contact support@atomos.com


I have contacted Atomos Support and waiting to hear back, but there seems to be a known issue based on this being in the manual.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

David- There are definitely different implementations of LANC. I also am having problems with this. According to Atomos, controllers for Sony and most Canon cameras (but not Panasonic) should work. This is contrary to the Samurai User Manual which has a misprint. I have reported the problem to Atomos and they are working on it but I don’t know at what priority. Perhaps if you, and everyone else experiencing this, also contact Atomos Support we can get a quicker solution. One thing they have stressed is that besides a LANC controller connected to the Samurai LANC IN you must also have a connection from the Samurai LANC OUT to the camera (the LANC chain must be terminated at the camera not the Samurai). Not only are my controllers not triggering the Samurai, the Samurai is not passing the commands through to the camera at this time. If anyone gets a solution for this please report here what controller and camera you are using.

Edit: We crossed posts and I see you have reported this also. It also seems that the manual may have already been modified from when I reported this so maybe something will happen soon...

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

That's interesting, Mike. Can you elaborate on the "loop through"? I am not sure I follow, because if you are sending a line out of the device/camera's LANC where are you supposed to bring the terminating line to? Most camera's I know only have 1 port.

This is a critical problem for me to solve because I am using my Samurai in an unconventional set-up. I have been waiting for months for the Samurai as the last piece and if it doesn't work, well, a lot of time has been wasted on my part.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Yes, David, I know exactly what you mean. My set up is rather unconventional as well (I’ll be starting a thread about it soon.) I paid for the Samurai eight months ago and bought all the other equipment at the same time. By the time the Samurai arrived the “send it back date” was long passed on everything else. Fortunately it all works.

What I was talking about is connecting the LANC controller to the Samurai LANC IN and connecting a patch cord from the Samurai LANC OUT to the camera’s LANC port. This should allow the controller to trigger record/stop on the Samurai while the Samurai passes these commands through to the camera. It would start/stop recording to tape on the camera for a tape back-up and, more importantly for me, pass zoom commands to the lens. Right now the controller won’t trigger the Samurai and commands don’t pass through to the camera. A stop-gap solution for me has been to connect a patch cord from the camera LANC port to the Samurai LANC IN and trigger the camera with it’s IR remote. This also triggers record on the Samurai. I don’t have a reliable way to mount the camera remote to the pan/tilt arm which is how I’m used to working. What Atomos has said definitely will not work is just connecting the controller to the Samurai without a connection from the Samurai out to the camera.

I know they are working on figuring it out. I got another e-mail this morning asking me to try something and report back. So far I have been very pleased with support from Atomos. Here are a couple of other things I have learned from them which I haven’t seen reported yet here:

They intend to produce a sun-screen for the Ninja and Samurai but have not yet started working on it and don’t know when it will be available.

The DNxHD upgrade is expected to ship in February.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Mike Watson-
B&H does list an AC power option for the Samurai. The B&H order No. is ATOMACP001 $80.00

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Just tested a tried and true ProLanc controller on a Sony NX5U and the Atomos NINJA. This ProLanc controller is a simple On/Off/Record/Stop affair only. It will control the Sony NX5U when plugged directly into the camera, but when looped through the NINJA neither the camera or ninja work.

It appears the NINJA is not accepting or passing the low voltage Lanc signal during loop through.

Tested another vendors Lanc controller and it to did not work with the NINJA. Rather frustrating if one wants to use the NINJA when mounted on a handheld rig.

Also tested the ProLanc controller directly plugged into my Sony FS-100.It worked fine, yet when looping through the NINJA once again nothing happens!

This is the controller I am using. ProLance LRC-01 controller. http://www.prolanc.com/products.html

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Near as I can tell, there is nowhere on the Samurai to plug in a DC adapter like that one. If there was, they are certainly available for less than $80. I did look for a standard-ish DC jack on the Samurai, and didn't find one, hence my conclusion that it was not possible.

I did qualify my earlier statement, in that I think there is an AC adapter out there that looks like a 970 battery but plugs into the wall (AC/DC transformer style) that would probably power it. I'm sure I have one in the archives here somewhere, as I know I've used one before.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Thanks for the explanation Mike. Why Atomos does not make this information available is beyond me. Contrary to your experience with Atomos support I cannot say the same. They have yet to respond to my request after 3 days other than an automated reply. Unfortunately, looping through is not an option for me because I am using a custom made BE-HD10 camera that has no LANC. I am triggering with a motion activated device for a camera trap. I suppose I could throw a small Sony handicam into the enclosure to complete the loop, but that is just another thing to have to supply power to which is at a premium in this rig. I really thought this was going to work, but now I may be going with the PIX 240.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Mike-
B&H used the wrong picture, but they do sell the AC adapter for the Samurai. The correct picture can be found in the Samurai manual, item 13, listed as optional. However, if you can find a cheaper solution please let us know as $80 does seem a bit much. Thanks

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Robert,
I purchased the Sony AC-VQ1050D and it powers the Samurai no problem. While pricey ($98), time is money and I have no idea how long it will take to get the Atomos version. Plus it includes a 12V adapter so I can charge the batteries from my truck if necessary.

On another note, I can report that the Samurai draws about 6.5 watts in standby and jumps to 7.4-7.6W when recording using a SSD. Just FYI, this is important for the project I'm working on.

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David- That is an interesting application. If you can say at this point, what subject are you going after? I have built a couple of camera traps in the past based on the old Pixcontroller boards. They had the ability (although I never used it) to activate a servo which was mostly used to switch on and off Nightshot mode on the Sony cameras. Can your trigger circuit possibly trigger a servo or solenoid to physically touch and trigger the record/stop on the Samurai touch screen? It might be crude but effective.

Sorry about your slow response from Atomos support. I suspect as more and more units get out there they may be temporarily overwhelmed. I was supposed to hear back from them today but haven’t yet.

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I just got the craziest email from Atomos announcing their attendance at the 2011 IBC in Amsterdam, September 9 - 13. "FIND US AT STAND 6.C28e". Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't IBC 2011 already occur?

This is a little odd, don't you think?

J.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

I got that email about a week ago. Strange indeed. Makes me wonder what is really going on there.

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Let's not make too much out of this. I manage our company's Exchange server and have 14 years in IT industry and sometime odd things happen. To put it in perspective, my company has 7-8 programmers who write custom IOS and Android apps for clients. They are very competent and great programmers. They also have "absolutely nothing" at all to do with our email system thus, a rogue email sent out by our server (for whatever unknown reason) is no reflection on the quality of our projects. So....this should not be of great concern to us as end users.

Unless of course they have their programmers who write the Samurai GUI and code, administering their mail servers too.....in which case, they need more employees!

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Can anyone vouch for a cheap SSD that they have working with the Samurai? I have a couple of 500GB spinners for main storage but I'd like to get a small SSD for times where vibration could be an issue. I only need a 64GB to capture in those situations, so I am looking to keep this cost effective. Anyone using something that might fit the bill.....and it's actually working? I can just order one but I was hoping for someone who can actually vouch for a unit with the Samurai.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Marty...'ghosts in the machine', eh? Believe me, I know how hard it is to bring a new item to market, as long as Atomos is taking care of the 'big things', I don't care about the small stuff.

Unfortunately, I can't offer you any suggestions for a 'cheap SSD'. I purchased an Intel X25, 160GB SSD prior to my Samurai arriving and paid a 'premium'. My opinion is, buy whatever you can get your hands on at this point. I don't think the 'market' has felt the full impact of the 'floods' in Thailand, I believe existing stocks are currently being sold and shortages due to manufacturing delays haven't hit us, yet. I hope I'm wrong.

Best regards,

J.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

I thought SSDs were not being affected by the flooding, at least not nearly to the level that Hard disks are. I could be wrong. So what SSD are you using with the Samurai James?

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Marty...I'm using an Intel 25X, 160GB, model: SSDSA2M160G2GC 2.5". I purchased the Intel SSD back on November 6, 2011. I also have (2) Western-Digital WD3200BEKT, 320GB 2.5" HDD, and (1) Western-Digital WD5000BPKT, 500GB 2.5 HDD. I can only vouch for the 320GB HDD at this point, as it's the only one I've used, so far. It loaded up the Atomos 'Firmware v 2.6' with know problem after 'formatting' in the Samurai and it seems to record and playback without a hitch. BTW, all of the HDD are 7,200k RPM. I tried to stay away from the 5,400k RPM drives to begin with.

Regards,

J.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Here's a couple of pretty convincing frame grabs from my Samurai codec stress tests. It's the same frame in both cases, on from the internal PMW-F3 codec and the other from Samurai ProRes HQ. The camera was shooting S-Log and the clips were both graded with exactly the same settings. While these are zoomed in crops, on a big TV artefacts like this make the entire scene look very "lively" and busy, when you get to 50" and above they become quite clearly visible.

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Alister,
Any chance you can post the full size frames? I'd like to see exactly how cropped these clips are.
Thanks.

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Here's the video clips, PLEASE view full frame HD or download the original file from vimeo to really see the difference. Please consider the additional compression added by Vimeo.

Re: ATOMOS Subforum?
 

Alister...thank you so much for the excellent 'A/B' test. I'm a 'neophyte' as it concerns DV, but it looked to me like the Samurai capture was a trifle sharper and less noisy. Am I 'seeing' incorrectly? I have a new Samurai, and at the risk of being burned at the stake for heresy, I purchased the Samurai for ease of work flow and it's 'bulk storage' capability, rather than it's image quality. Although, image quality was a close second.

Again, thank you.

Best regards,

J.