Tim:

Actually, what the Rockwell people are saying is it won't fly without the Automation Retro-Encabulator. But that equipment wasn't included in the original scenario. So it won't fly....

So, which came first: the chicken or the egg? Why?

I thought that the Earth ORBITS around the sun and revolves around it's AXIS. No?
:p

Hehe. All the guys here at work found that hilarious.
Yes, it's an engineering department...

So in answer to the title of this thread....

apparently not! ;-)

Hmmm....if you read the whole thread, I think the answer is still out there waiting to be found!

(I think it will fly because the wheels decouple the airframe (where the thrust is) from the conveyor belt.)

That's great Michael, you may have the ultimate post on this thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One Michael to another!

Mike

The Plane indeed will fly
 

The Classical Question of “Chicken and Egg”, this question is always asked and asked, therefore I have devised a simple FAQ

Question:

“What came first the Chicken or the Egg?”

Answer:

This question was first asked to demonstrate the circular argument for biogenesis, its a circular reference and thus can not have an answer, it ends in an infinite regress. The only solution is an external agent that is not dependent within the co-dependent loop, i.e. a Creator.

Formal mathematical answer:

(1) Co-existence of two co-dependent entities A and B
(2) A can not exist without the prior existence of B
(3) B can not exist without the prior existence of A
(4) From (2) and (3) a closed loop occurs.

Therefore either can not come first (due to the closed loop), the ONLY solution is to have an independent agent OUTSIDE of the closed loop to bring about the first entity within the loop.


I hope that helps

Anhar Hussain Miah

P.S The plane does fly, I was going to derive from first principle, INCLUDING the control system mathematics involved in the "treadmill", because the feedback system will indeed have a slight delay, but in the end I realised that unlike a Car that requires the friction between the wheel and the road to move forward, the the plane uses propulsion from the engines thrust to move forward (thats the key difference) and perhaps the reason as to why people are having problems in visualizing the riddle.

Some good points stated here and some that seem a bit slanted by a version of Creation Theory.

About chickens: In fact, an egg is a part of every chicken, as much as a placenta and umbilical cord are or have been a part of each one of us. It's included in our genetic codes to have them, even though at hatching or birth, they are discarded and only a small reminder is evident in our case, that they were ever present (Mariette Hartley having two and Kyle XD having none, being rare exceptions). Therefore, neither the chicken or the egg came first, as being integral parts of a single entity, they evolved together from the earliest ancestor that was a clump of self-replicating proteins in the sea. This amorphous forebear preceded eggs, legs, wings or early morning crowing, but nevertheless, is the root of the chicken's family tree.

Mr J. Stephen McDonald, with the greatest of respect I have to stress and disagree that, Unfortunately your entire reasoning depends on assuming from the very foundation that the Modern Synthesis of evolution is actually correct, however a very large part of humanity does not subscribe to that philosophical worldview, further more I see no scientific reason to accept such a false model.

Of course I can see this thread descending into Evolution Vs ID debate, which I will gracefully wish to opt out for the sake of the thread.

However if you wish to know why I have come to such a conclusion, then if you email me I will be more than happy to email the entire transcript of my formal debate on the very topic (Which I won) :)

Anhar Hussain Miah

Thank you in advance, as we will not use this forum to debate evolution vs. intelligent design. They are, after, completely synonymous terms which both describe the exact same process (in other words, evolution is the mechanism of creation). Thus a "debate" is not only inappropriate, but also impossible, at least in the context of this forum. There, I've managed to iterate that we will not pursue poltical or religious topics here, while getting my own viewpoint aired. Now I can enjoy the morning. Yes, the plane will fly.

If there is no air moving over the wings (no airspeed), there is no lift and there may as well not be any wings at all. It is difficult to take off without wings. However, it is possible to take off without wheels.

As for the lasers, I believe c+k = c, so the light will arrive at the same time regardless of the plane's sublight speed. I could be wrong, though, as I am not well versed in physics.

1. Who says there's no air moving over the wings?

2. This assumption is based on the theory that there's the equivalent of a universe-wide grid, within which light moves at a uniform speed that relates only to the grid and not to any motion of an object within the grid, from which the light emanates. The obvious fallacy in this theory is, that if it were true, there would be no Doppler Effect, which causes light coming from celestial bodies to shift in its position in the color spectrum, in relation to its relative speed, towards or away from an observer.

Arrrghh! This thread has reappeared!
Dang it. I KNEW we shoulda locked this thread last time it went quiet!
;-)

unanswered information
 

The laser question doesn't give enough information. Is the target in the air or on the ground? Is it an orbiting deathstar satellite? What altitude? How high up is the tower where the laser is?

Depending on this info, the distance from the target to the planes laser might be less than the distance from the tower to the target. If the distance is less, the closest laser beam will strike first.