In a classic case of "it's not what you know, but WHO you know", I have been given permission to shoot a documentary of an artist creating a 40-foot, stainless steel sculpture of the Wright Brothers and their plane, for the Flight Centennial in December.

I have never shot a documentary before and I am as nervous as I am excited! I meet with the artist next week to map out his vision of what he would like to get out of this.

I have a GL1, decent lights, an Azden Shotgun mic with boom, various bounce boards for lights, etc.

I have some ideas as to what I want to do (and will know better after meeting with the artist), but is there any specific info that anyone could pass on as to what to look for or watch out for in shooting docs?

Thanks for any assistance anyone can offer.

I guess you need to decide what form the doc will take---will it be a process video? In other words will you show the process of creation and installation---Will it hone in on the artist and his techniques---or will it hone in or the Wright BRothers---How about this---you juxtopose the Wright Brothers building of their plane with the construction of this sculpture---cross cutting---etc---I am just brain storming here but thats what you you have to do---Meet the artist, learn about him, study up on the Wright Bros then plan a strategy---I assume you will be shooting outside in DV? This presents a whole set of issues----sound, lighting, the inability of prosumer DV cameras to pick up detail in long shots----Anyhow, check out this film---its famous---its called Skyscraper---I think it was made in the 50's. Its about the construction of a major skyscraper in NYC and you might get some interesting ideas.

Sorry to ramble and skip around but thats the way I work at the beginning---Sounds like you are going to have fun--Keep us abreast of your progress---

Thanks, David. Interesting points and concepts. I am studying up on the Wright Brothers as we type! I had not thought of that angle and I may incorporate that. My initial thought is to interview quite a few people both related to the project (artist, polictical figures associated with this, etc.) and people related to flight itself (chairman of the Flight Centennial, FAA officials, pilots, celebrities that fly, other dignitaries, etc.). I thought I would also try to show the history and/or development of flight (militarily and commercial) in coordination with the building of the sculpture.

I'm also rambling here, as my thoughts are coming fast and furious. I should know more after I meet the artist next week at his studio. My impression is that everything is being built in pieces inside, then going to some sort of foundry for finalization (it's a stainless steel piece).

Thanks again for thoughts and tips.

For a good Wright Brothers overview, I recommend the 1978 made-for-TV movie The Winds of Kitty Hawk (http://us.imdb.com/Details?0078496).

The only problem is, I have no idea how one might procure a copy. I taped it off of television in the late '80s or early '90s.

Hey Mark, I have an idea. Why dont you keep us informed with a kind of online diary of how the project evolves---It would be highly educational and we would all benefit by hearing about the process---Just a thought.

Dave

I don't mind posting updates now and then, but I'm afraid it would bore some people to tears. I don't really have the film school education and/or experience that most have and some could roll over in their not-yet-to-be-determined graves when they see how I'll go about this!

We'll see how it goes. Thanks for all the tips. RKS, I may try to find that TV-movie. Thanks for letting me know.

The last 48 hours I've spent online getting some historical data about the WBs and researching grant info. Unfortunately, most grants for this year were submitted for last year - and most grants give to organizations, not individuals. I'll keep looking though. Thought a grant of some sort may help the expenses out, but the lack of one won't shut me down!
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One question: Does anyone have a recommendation for shooting this in FRAME or 60i? I know the argument for 60i and transfer to film, but I'm not sure this would be transferred. I love frame mode, but I just don't know. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

I meet with the artist on Friday for this documentary and expect I'll get some footage of his studio and what he's currently working on. Can anyone suggest whether I should shoot in frame mode or interlaced?

There is a chance that musuems could pick this up when it's completed. I also know that if I want to transfer it to film, I need to go interlaced. Other than that, any recommendations from the more experienced?

Thanks.

Mark,

Sounds like a great opportunity. The first thing I would do is get a hold of Barry Hampe's excellent book on making docs. It's a quick and thrilling read. Here's an amazon link if you want to check it out.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0805044515/qid=1053871375/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-6825292-2368822?v=glance&s=books

Read this book and you'll make a better documentary than you can find on cable tv or even PBS.

For what it's worth, my three bits of advice would be...

1) make sure you "show" your subject as opposed to just "telling" about your subject. Interviews are terribly overused this way. Rember that video is a visual medium and just having a talking head describing something is a poor way to engage the audience.

2) Give some thought to your narrative arc. A standard fictional work is usually organized around something like a) character introduction, b) rising action, d) climax, e) falling action. You need to do something similar in your documentary.

3) Don't shoot until you write a treatment. Hampe gives some great examples of 3-5 page treatments for documentaries.

And I think you should take David up on his excellent suggestion of posting throughout the process. This forum is wonderfully supportive that way. You'd get a lot of great brainstorming from some pretty experienced people.

Good luck!

Thanks Steve. I'm definitely going to check out the link. Also, thanks for the other suggestions. Very good advice. I can use all the suggestion I can get!

I'm sorry to ask this question again, but I respect the experience on this board and I would like to feel comfortable!

I meet the artist on FRI and I would like opinions and/or arguments on whether I should shoot 60i or frame mode? My preference is frame, but I don't want to shoot myself in the foot just because I like that better!

Thanks.

Mark, there's been a lot of discussion on this that you can read by searching for "frame mode".

I think the general consensus is that if you're not transferring to film then shoot frame. If you are transferring to film then do some research because there's a lot of opinions out there.

Thanks.

Hey Mark,
I was also going to suggest the book that Steve Klusman recommended but he beat me to it. Read it and you'll have a good template to shoot by.

My two cents - stay with 60i and you'll be safe, esp with your first doco. Stick with the effects you can easily duplicate in post.

G

I did buy the book and it was shipped today, so I should have it this weekend.

Thanks for the recommendation on 60i. If this is to be shown on some sort of TV and/or small theatres in Museums, will 60i still be the best way to shoot?

I just don't have the experience to know! Thanks.

I think 60i would be the safest. Keep the technical aspects to a minimum and focus on the content, at least until you have more time to play with frame mode and get to know its quirks. I would guess you'll be doing a lot of hand held shots which could turn out to be a frame mode disaster without practice, especially when using a GL1 or GL2 which CAN be very unstable to hold.

Concentrate on telling the story with your images. With the end result, you should be able to turn down the sound and still know what the story is about. Of course, never underestimate the importance of audio quality and your musical score.

As for the book, I've bought a lot of them and the one by Barry Hampe was simply my favorite and is written in a style that benefits all levels of experience. It also gets right to the point and shouldn't take you too long to read. Most of the other books were more of a bragging and name dropping session for the writer, this one isn't.

G

That's a good review of the book, Greg. I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it.

While I have little experience with docs, I have shot my GL1 for over a year now (mostly sports hightlights - soccer to be exact). I've shot all of that in frame and I love the mode! Also, there is quite a bit of movement in soccer and so far, the highlights have turned out very good.

I have a good tripod, monopod and steadi-tracker, so I'm not worried about the movement aspect of the camera. In fact, I love my monopod and I'm quite comfortable with it.

If camera movement is only reason to shoot 60i, then I would prefer frame as the there should be little movement in the making of a sculpture (though I'll have a better idea on FRI when I visit th artist).

However, if the broadcast of this in either TV or musueum (projection screen of museum theatre) would be better in 60i, then I'll do it. I suppose that is my question between the two modes.

I actually have quite a bit of confidence in my ability to shoot about anything!

Thanks again for the advice.

My brother (who is shooting this with me) and I went to meet the artist on FRI and I'm completely amazed at the complexity of this project (the sculpture AND the doc!). However, I'm very excited about moving forward.

After talking with the artist, we're close to a 'theme/message' for the doc and have determined our targeted audiences (at least some of them). We shot some test footage - all in "auto" mode (and frame). We used a gold disk to bounce the light from the skylights and it gave a very nice look to the shadowed area of the pieces. I seem to remember someone telling me that we should shoot MANUAL, F2.8 - zebra on - and the GAIN set at ???.

Also, in the playback on my camera, the walls of the studio are metal and have vertical lines in them (corragated pieces). When I pan/move the camera, these lines create some odd background movement. Is this because of FRAME mode or just a video nuance? Would I minimize that "noise" by shooting in 60i?

Any ideas on any of this? The studio is big and very well lit (some flourescents, big skylights and six very warm-colored spots). I have some nice test shots and frame grabs of the unfinished pieces, but I can't post anything until we get papers signed next week. After that, I'll post on my site and put a link here.

Any ideas on MANUAL vs AUTO modes? Thanks.

Mark...

The artifacts you see from panning is most likely from shooting in frame mode. Even at 30 fps it'll be apparent. 60i will prevent that from happening. Another cause is high shutter speeds that eliminate the subtle movement blur that occurs with camera or subject movements.

Another way to avoid that sort of "stobing" is to control the pan speeds. The effect will be more apparent at certain pan speeds than others, especially if you're looking at a patterned surface.

I'd avoid Auto on anything. For absolute control manual settings are the way to go.

For documentary structure, I prefer to build a narrative then illustrate the issues or points being discussed. I recently had an argument with a producer regarding that. He wanted me to go get a bunch of images of things that can be shot just about any time. I insisted that we build the narrative first and that the director is still in the process of working on that aspect of the documentary. This producer, we believe, is being leaned on by his boss who is wondering how the money is being spent -- so the producer wants to see lots and lots of activity, never mind how this activity is being directed.

Moral of the story: Be sure you know who intends to be in charge of the project. The people funding the project might not necessarily understand documenary fundamentals.

Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions

http://www.pbs.org has lots of useful info concerning what they want, in way of docs., and how to put it together. I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

Thanks Dean. Actually, right now - everything is being paid for by me (and my brother!), so no Producer over my shoulder! I have a good idea on the narrative aspect and how to mesh it with the building of the sculpture so that it will be both informative and entertaining. To be honest, just listening to the artist explain this process was much more interesting that I would have ever thought!

That's a shame about the strobing with movement in frame mode. I really like FM. While these were just "test shots" to determine things like this, light, etc., I was also using a steadi-tracker to try some things (360s, crane type shots, etc.), so I wasn't moving very fast at all. I'm not sure I can slow it down much more! I may now opt for 60i. I definitely do not like that pattern effect in the background!

Next week (after papers are signed), I can post a three-minute edited test on my site (along with some stills) and I would love to hear some of your feedback (anyone's!).

Frank - thanks for the link. I also bought a doc-making book that was recommended, so I'm going to be reading that too.

I'll keep the board posted if anyone is interested. Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Hi Mark,
I've had the same problems with the stair-stepping/strobing effect. I believe this is just a fluke of DV and smaller CCDs, but as one of the previous posts suggested, a slower shutter speed should help.

I've been shooting a lot of tornado damage footage all month for an insurance company and just left the camera on auto for many of the shots. It was just archival footage and I usually go manual. I got some stair-stepping/strobing with the shots that included a lot of roofing shingles or repeated patterns. I use an XL1S and didn't have my ND filter on, so I think the higher shutter speeds might have contributed. I was using 60i also. Usually 99% of the time I keep my shutter speed at 60 and hardly ever see a problem.

I don't think anyone has ever perfected the Canon zebra stripes. Everyone has their own preference. I prefer bright crisp images and in most cases leave my stripes on 100 and adjust the aperture down until just a few of the brightest WHITE spots show stripes. Never had any problems yet. From my experience, if you're getting stripes from any bright object that is NOT white such as corrugated steel, adjust down to be safe.

When doing head shots, some people prefer setting their stripes between 70 and 90 depending on the skin color. Those after the film look also tend to go lower too but the colors can look muddy if you don't color correct them in post.

Keep us updated. I'm doing a few shows for the Discovery Wings Channel myself right now and will try to share some of my results here soon.

G

Thanks Greg. That's real useful info and I'll definitely use it next week when I go back.

One more question I forgot to ask - there will be welding involved in this project. Anyone there will be required to stand behind a screen or wear protective UV goggles. However, I want to get footage of this process for the doc. Will that bright light hurt my camera/lens/ccds? Will a filter be needed? If so, what type?

Thanks again all. I'll have list the board in the credits!!!

A strong ND or even a polarizer. That light can hurt your CCDs.

Thanks Frank. I'll use one of those. The welding - even a small clip - would be an important part of the process.

I appreciate the input.

I'm sorry to ask so many questions, but it's the only way to learn!

If we were to leave a camera with the artists to shoot anything of importance while we aren't there (we can't be there 24/7!) - would it need to be a 3-chip camera to match with what we are shooting (GL1 and GL2)?

We both have extra cams (Hi-8 and S-VHS). We simply don't know if they shot something on those formats and we ran a cable to import from old cam to GL cam would the quality of footage be VERY noticeable? Would those formats be better or worse than a single-chip mini-DV cam?

Or would it be best to not leave anything there at all.

I think there will be a noticeable difference, but I don't really know or have any data to back up my suspicions!

Thanks.

I think I've answered my own question. I performed a search and read some of the posts and it appears (with a few exceptions) that the consensus is that mini-dv is better than S-VHS/Hi8 and that three chip is a better quality than one-chip.

I don't think I can mix and match the differing formats and have the finished product look very good. If I've assumed wrong, please let me know.

Ok, I've just gotten back from a 12 hour day shooting for the doc. I now have a great deal of welding footage, both of the arc and the arc hidden. I used a 4x ND and a UV filter and it looks real good. I was never closer than 8-10 feet and shot at all angles - including through a red/UV screen that gave me some very interesting footage.

Thanks for all the advice.

My CCD's seem to be fine (as do my eyes!). The process of the artist welding this iron pipe skeleton (so they can then put clay muscle on it) is amazing.

When the National Park Service gives the artist the "ok", I'll post some shots/video of this process.