I am in charge of making a Music Video for a Professional group in a Live atmosphere.. 45 min rock concert.

The final product is meant for band production EPK kit and nationwide Music Video DVD distribution for the release of a new album. There is a set/lighting show for the production. To give you an idea.. the budget for lighting alone has exceeded the budget for filming. It's a big event and I only have this shot to make it look as good as possible.

Here is what we are doing:

• 5 camera shoot -
(so far I have 3 XH-A1 of my own, and were planning on renting the other two, or renting the XL version.. or 5 of something else entirely)
• one 15ft. Jib
• A Steadicam Operator
• A roaming (handheld)
• and two lock-down (tripod) shots

My concern is the cameras.. are these the right cameras for the job? WE ARE NOT CUTTING LIVE.. NO LIVE EDIT, So that is a tremendous benefit! But we are planning on having a director (probably me) oversee the shots. Obviously I want this to look as professional as possible.

Questions.. IF these are not the right cameras then which Cameras and why?
If we DO use these cameras what are your recommendations on presets?
I am currently using the Terra pre-set for most stuff.
Lastly I really like the look of 24P, however I don't know what is the norm on these type of shots.. 60i?

There seem to be some famous people in this production.. So I really want to do an excellent job.
:) Thank you for your help!

the biggest issues a see with such camera , is that it gives a great picture at the cost of many manual setting and a controlled situation.
live shooting of such event usually do not give you the chance to operate this way.
i think a Sony in full auto would be probably easier, since music bands are usually a nightmare for light huge change in intensity and color expected).
whatever camera you choose, make sure all camera start together and no pause or stop occurs until the end of the show, this will be a huge asset to edit.

Thank you.. I agree with the operations per camera issue.. That has been on my mind. I was considering leaving the cameras in Manual and fixing a general exposure for the atmosphere on each, instead of using an auto mode.
Lighting is an issue but if generally it looks good and there are no blow-outs etc. I would be happy with it.

Timecode is an issue, but we are not capturing the audio, that is going into another Live recording system. I was thinking of getting two of the G1's or XL-H1's because of the Timecode/Genlock features; having at least two cameras locked into a timecode.

Just leave all the time code to free run. that way , when the camera goes off or when one is down for a while or when the tape suddenly breaks. You still get all the camera's time code in sync.

Just make sure you set all the cameras together.

I would absolutely not use auto exposure. Lights flash off and on, lights get in the shot, you don't want the aperture opening and closing on you all the time. The cameras in question are fine. I've shot a lot of music venues with the XH A1 and also XL2's. But you have to have people shooting who are professional and have been checkout on the cameras; otherwise you're asking for trouble.

I agree with you Bill! All the way!

Giroud, I find that free run syncing between cameras can get easily out of sync for some reason.. any solutions for this or why this would be happening?

when i need to edit a multi camera shoot, i do not use timecode.
if all the cameras start more or less at same time, i just choose an event (visual or sound) to sync all video. if no stop or pause occurs, you can bet that there will be no problem until the end of the take.
time code editing is usefull for discontinuous event that needs to be identified on each tape, but the show from the group is a continuous one, so you will probably no need to skip part of it, just switch cameras.

when i need to edit a multi camera shoot, i do not use timecode.
if all the cameras start more or less at same time, i just choose an event (visual or sound) to sync all video. if no stop or pause occurs, you can bet that there will be no problem until the end of the take.
time code editing is usefull for discontinuous event that needs to be identified on each tape, but the show from the group is a continuous one, so you will probably no need to skip part of it, just switch cameras.

I shoot live bands all the time and use anywhere from 2-4 camera's. We use the Sony HDR-FX1's and/or Z1's.

#1) Sync'ing is not a problem provided that all cameras go live within a few seconds of each other and none get turned off during the entire performance. That gives you a full 63 minutes of the show to record. Lining this up in the NLE can take a little bit of time but it's not really that bad and you'll be surprised how good the results you can achieve by just visually lining everything up. Be sure to be using a NLE that has a good multicap app either built in or via a plugin. I use Vegas and the InfiniCam plugin, works awsome.

#2) Your camera's are plenty good and you should not shoot on full auto. You most certainly will want to at least set a white balance on each camera by being on stage under "normal" lighting conditions prior to the event. Yes, lighting could be a problem, but getting them all on the same page and the camera's agreeing what's white most of the time will do the trick. I agree with the other comment that you'll probably want to fix shutter speed, gain and exposure as well. I would let the majority of the cameras auto-focus though.

#3) I would probably recomend against 24p but this is entirely subject to your point of view. You said the final product is on DVD and provided you record into a progressive scan DVD, that should be alright.

#4) 5 camera's sounds fantastic. I would try to make one a still stage-wide type shot that you can always cut back to. Make two others cameraman operated from left and right angle's on tripods. The other on your jib or crane, and the last camera a free roaming cameraman particularly getting shots from either behind the stage or extreme left and right sides. Also have this guy getting lots of close ups of guitar strings being strung, piano keys and hands, drum sticks hitting drums, etc.

I think you are going to find this to be easier than you think and will come out really good.

Hope I am of some help..

Jon

Michael,

Tried to email you via the system but it wouldn't let me... When/Where is your event? I see you are not far from me. I also own/operate a Canon A1 and might be of some help to your production..

Jon

for the sync issues - we film a sort of live late night show in a studio with 3 cams directly to tape. sound being recorded to an edirol r4.

what we do is, as we have the sound from the built in mic on the tapes, produce a series of loud claps or something (in your case a drum snare or something) right before the actual event starts. i align all three videos into premiere so that the claps match and i'm done for the entire show. extremly easy and cheap. the only thing, as mentioned: do NEVER stop recording on one of your cams during the shot.

the a1 is great under stage lights in 24f. just go on manual all the way.
stay away from presets. you may want to hit a club and make your own before the show to get the look you want across all cams. i found that the presets offered here, under certain conditions, bleed - blowout- or cause grain. shooting flat with a decent white balance and color temp would be the safest way to go for a clean image. presets can save some time if you are confident enough with it.

for sync with other cams i use a camera flash when the house lights go dark..usually right before the band comes on and in between songs.
it's one frame and syncs nice.

if you need to match up an external audio source, vegas is the best for
matching up audio visually. you can take your cam audio and drop in the finished audio master and actually see the signature on the levels match perfectly. vegas, by design, was an audio app. from sonic foundry.

hey nice idea with the flash - gonna try that one next time we film with multiple cams :)

I've upped a short clip from a club in Cancun that I shot last week.
Manual HDV downconverted to SD, 24F, no preset, warm color temp, multiple shutter speeds, just stage lights, buzzed on mojitos, slight post saturation.

I've upped a short clip from a club in Cancun that I shot last week.
Manual HDV downconverted to SD, 24F, no preset, warm color temp, multiple shutter speeds, just stage lights, buzzed on mojitos, slight post saturation.Hi Eric

How many cams? and which club in Cancun? In the hotel zone i'd imagine.

I've upped a short clip from a club in Cancun that I shot last week.
Manual HDV downconverted to SD, 24F, no preset, warm color temp, multiple shutter speeds, just stage lights, buzzed on mojitos, slight post saturation.

Thanks that give me a nice idea of what i'll be looking at.. brings a bit of confidence to the cameras capturing with no preset.

Michael,

Tried to email you via the system but it wouldn't let me... When/Where is your event? I see you are not far from me. I also own/operate a Canon A1 and might be of some help to your production..

Jon

Thanks for the offer.. I think were fairly we'll covered with operators, but I might just take you up on it anyway, as an additional benifit. The event is not this wed but the next in Fullerton. Here's my email - michael@visualmasterpiece.com I can give you more details then and see if it would be worth while. -thanks.

I have started filming concerts for a TV show recently. The advice of using a camera flash to sync cameras is the greatest thing I have heard in a while. THANKS.

Glad to help.

The club was called Azucar in Cancun, next to Dreams.
Single cam..just me grabbing different angles for b-roll.

But, another word of caution on the A1.. do not use the lcd to setup the cams. use the vf and magnify the dark and light areas to spot grain.
the lcd is good to monitor once you have your look..and i learned that the hard way. i also use the white balance preset on the top of the cam
to achieve my desired temp. i was also shooting at either -3 or 0 db.

But, another word of caution on the A1.. do not use the lcd to setup the cams. use the vf and magnify the dark and light areas to spot grain.
the lcd is good to monitor once you have your look..and i learned that the hard way. i also use the white balance preset on the top of the cam
to achieve my desired temp. i was also shooting at either -3 or 0 db.

Ok, so the attached view finder is what you are referring to?
I'm not sure how much better that would be over the LCD..?

I have gotten two XL-H1's so if anyone has any advice on matching these images, it would be greatly appreciated.

Out of the box, the lcd showed a brighter, less colorful image.
So my footage was over saturated and under exposed...plus i was using presets. the vf has always been accurate. it took a while to match the lcd with the vf. the lcd is wonderful for monitoring and focus, but i still set up my color and exposure in the vf.

the h1 and a1 are basically the same. matching them should be easy.

I am using a Sony HVR-Z1U and Sony HVR-A1U. When I shoot live bands, it's really grainy and I have tried all diff kinds of settings. Should I use lights with a colored gel? How can I get good resolution in HDV without all the graininess? What would be good settings? I was trying to shoot in Cineframe24 which definitly requires more light. I have the Z1U on lockdown and use the A1U for closeup handheld shots. All of these terms used on here are over my head. I usually start both cams close to the same time and use a camera flas for a sync tool. I also capture audio on my Tascam HD-P2 Hi Def Audio recorder straight from the house mixer. I have a very important shoot on the 23rd and need to make it perfect. Any help would be GREATFULLY appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Greg

Interesting... I've shot with the Sony FX1's in about 10-12 concert/club venue's now and am not seeing the same effects. I use no lighting.

You *definately* want to white balance your cameras. If you're not doing that (and I presume you are) that would be step #1.

Jon

I am in charge of making a Music Video for a Professional group in a Live atmosphere.. 45 min rock concert.

The final product is meant for band production EPK kit and nationwide Music Video DVD distribution for the release of a new album. There is a set/lighting show for the production. To give you an idea.. the budget for lighting alone has exceeded the budget for filming. It's a big event and I only have this shot to make it look as good as possible.

Here is what we are doing:

• 5 camera shoot -
(so far I have 3 XH-A1 of my own, and were planning on renting the other two, or renting the XL version.. or 5 of something else entirely)
• one 15ft. Jib
• A Steadicam Operator
• A roaming (handheld)
• and two lock-down (tripod) shots

My concern is the cameras.. are these the right cameras for the job? WE ARE NOT CUTTING LIVE.. NO LIVE EDIT, So that is a tremendous benefit! But we are planning on having a director (probably me) oversee the shots. Obviously I want this to look as professional as possible.

Questions.. IF these are not the right cameras then which Cameras and why?
If we DO use these cameras what are your recommendations on presets?
I am currently using the Terra pre-set for most stuff.
Lastly I really like the look of 24P, however I don't know what is the norm on these type of shots.. 60i?

There seem to be some famous people in this production.. So I really want to do an excellent job.
:) Thank you for your help!Michael... curious as to how it went in the end on your shoot in the summer.

thanks in advance

Yes, I too would like to hear how this went..

I hate live stuff, used to do it loads, but never again... (lie- I'm sure it'll happen)

Stage light looks crap unless it's lit for tv. Way too many other variables, including the band's performance itself.

You can obviously get good results, but its a risky high stress job that will never rival a promo fully directed, lit and shot by yourselves (be it live, or live-style)

just my 2p (we've shot several dozen live sets)