I don't know if these are functional or prototypes:

http://www.techgadgets.in/digital-cameras/2007/20/worlds-first-blu-ray-camcorder-by-hitachi/

It's beautiful :)

Original:
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20070720/hitachi.htm

English translated:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ja_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fav%2Fdocs%2F20070720%2Fhitachi.htm

Easier to read summary:
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20070723/136497/

I was expecting a good quality CMOS sensor to be used in this camcorder and that’s exactly what it has but the disc capacity isn’t as high as I thought. 7 gigs is decent but 16.5 gig and 33 gig discs would have been perfect. Maybe it would have been too expansive to use higher capacity discs. Anyway that 7 gigs is most likely single layer so hopefully their will be 14 gig dual layer discs available.

I'd buy that one in the foreground on looks alone!

7 GB (7,000,000,000) into one hour of recording works out to a bit rate of 15.55 Mb/sec. There is still a fair amount of work to be done to get it up to the maximum specification of 25 Mb/sec.

And it will be interesting to eventually see the price.
Is it really a worthy competitor to the Canon HV20?
Only time will tell.

I still find it interesting that no pro cameras have yet come out using AVCHD.
That I know of anyhow.

After all, the new stuff often debuts in the high end.
But not here.

one more pic.
http://i.n.com.com/i/ne/p/2006-2/103tokyoday1-088_550x367.jpg

http://marketnews.ca/news_detail.asp?nid=2987

If only they included a focusing ring on both camcorders.

Don't forget the actual Hitachi (Japan) official page: http://av.hitachi.co.jp/cam/products_bd/index.html

I think that the english pages are more usefull for most of the people visiting the forum --except Japanese people--... ;)
http://av.hitachi.com/camcorder/blu-ray/index.html

Even better. Thanks Bruno!

7 GB (7,000,000,000) into one hour of recording works out to a bit rate of 15.55 Mb/sec. There is still a fair amount of work to be done to get it up to the maximum specification of 25 Mb/sec.

And it will be interesting to eventually see the price.
Is it really a worthy competitor to the Canon HV20?
Only time will tell.

I still find it interesting that no pro cameras have yet come out using AVCHD.
That I know of anyhow.

After all, the new stuff often debuts in the high end.
But not here.

Why would they? As far as I remember (?) there is no TC component in the AVCHD spec, as it was announced. Sorry, no reference.

Good point Paul -- however I believe there is a TimeCode component in AVC Intra? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong please.

You are correct, oh mighty Karnak, AVC does have TC, but it isn't available on all Pana cams- not HVX200 or 500. Starts at 2000, I believe.

Pi

I still find it interesting that no pro cameras have yet come out using AVCHD

Cos they're using AVC-intra for the Pro cameras with the higher data rates I rekons.

No point in getting excited about a blu ray camera, bit of a buzzword thing don't you think? How many consumers have blu ray players ? Whats the point in buying one if blu ray doesnt become the more adopted HD disc format? Nobody can say which one is gonna come out on top, the PS3 hasn't really helped the case IMO - overpriced and undersupported at launch, no major price drops planned, nobody seeing it as the all-seeing-all-doing media and gaming king that they touted it as apart from the fanboys...

Maybe I'm too cynical for a 20yr old?

No point in getting excited about a blu ray camera, bit of a buzzword thing don't you think? How many consumers have blu ray players ? Whats the point in buying one if blu ray doesnt become the more adopted HD disc format? Nobody can say which one is gonna come out on top, the PS3 hasn't really helped the case IMO - overpriced and undersupported at launch, no major price drops planned, nobody seeing it as the all-seeing-all-doing media and gaming king that they touted it as apart from the fanboys...


The way I see it, why would you not want HD footage on mini Blu-Ray discs as apposed to standard mini DVD’s? That’s a full 7.5 gigs of storage for a single layer disc. Hitachi is in a very good position knowing that they will be the first company to advance to newer technology.

There are already around 5 million Blu-Ray units in people’s homes and yes that does include the PS3 and look how quickly PS3 sales got to be once Sony decided to decrease the price by 100 dollars. Sales went up by around 135%. People are already seeing it as a great media box and other than playing video games and watching Blu-Ray movies; you can serf the web, watch photos and view HDV and AVCHD files on a Data DVD. Because of that, your average consumer doesn’t need to know anything about authoring discs in order to play it on a PS3. If you think about it, the PS3 is the perfect compliment for a TV station just as long as the interns don’t use it for games when their working, On break that’s a different story. Anyway, If you don’t have a Blu-Ray player, it wont matter that much because you can hook up the camcorder to an HD TV thru HDMI or component.

Look how convenient the hard drive version is. You can record your footage on the hard drive and make Blu-Ray copies on the camcorder without using a computer. That’s a great way to give out copies to your friends.

Back in 2000, Hitachi was the first to release a consumer mini DVD camcorder and they sold so fast that Panasonic had to immediately make their own, and once Sony saw how popular they were, they decided to release their own version as well and now, even Canon has mini DVD based camcorders. The same thing will happen to this camcorder where the other companies will have to release their own version.

The way I see it, why would you not want HD footage on mini Blu-Ray discs as apposed to standard mini DVD’s? That’s a full 7.5 gigs of storage for a single layer disc. Hitachi is in a very good position knowing that they will be the first company to advance to newer technology.

There are already around 5 million Blu-Ray units in people’s homes and yes that does include the PS3 and look how quickly PS3 sales got to be once Sony decided to decrease the price by 100 dollars. Sales went up by around 135%. People are already seeing it as a great media box and other than playing video games and watching Blu-Ray movies; you can serf the web, watch photos and view HDV and AVCHD files on a Data DVD. Because of that, your average consumer doesn’t need to know anything about authoring discs in order to play it on a PS3. If you think about it, the PS3 is the perfect compliment for a TV station just as long as the interns don’t use it for games when their working.

Look how convenient the hard drive version is. You can record your footage on the hard drive and make Blu-Ray copies on the camcorder without using a computer. That’s a great way to give out copies to your friends.



The PS3 is a great media player no doubt, although there's not 5 million Blu-Ray units even counting PS3. It's about 1.5 million PS3 and 140,000 standalone blu-ray players.

There's no proof BD-R/RE will play on Blu-Ray players. So far, it's quite well established that BD-R/RE disks don't play on any of the Sony or Panasonic standalone players. That leaves it basically to PS3 which already plays AVCHD or HDV from DVD5/9 or the internal HDD.

So if your friends fall in the category of owning a PS3, you can give out working HD copies to them with or without BD media.

The PS3 is a great media player no doubt, although there's not 5 million Blu-Ray units even counting PS3. It's about 1.5 million PS3 and 140,000 standalone blu-ray players.

There's no proof BD-R/RE will play on Blu-Ray players. So far, it's quite well established that BD-R/RE disks don't play on any of the Sony or Panasonic standalone players. That leaves it basically to PS3 which already plays AVCHD or HDV from DVD5/9 or the internal HDD.


I was really talking about World wide sales and if I were to give an extremely conservative estimate, I would put it at 4 million units.

Sony players have been receiving upgrades to play at least BD-R discs, and I’ve heard Panasonic and Samsung players should play them fine. As for BD-RE discs, I don’t know what the issue is with all players. Most people will distribute BD-R disc anyway.

Anybody wants to come in here and confirm the compatibilities with BD-R and BD-RE with each Blu-Ray player including the latest firmware upgrades?

I was really talking about World wide sales and if I were to give an extremely conservative estimate, I would put it at 4 million units.

Sony players have been receiving upgrades to play at least BD-R discs, and I’ve heard Panasonic and Samsung players should play them fine. As for BD-RE discs, I don’t know what the issue is with all players. Most people will distribute BD-R disc anyway.

Anybody wants to come in here and confirm the compatibilities with BD-R and BD-RE with each Blu-Ray player including the latest firmware upgrades?

Samsung standalone players support BD-R/RE, but many Sony, Panasonic and Pioneer's do not. I'm sorry Paulo, but Blu-Ray for simple distribution is a mess. You can reach the mass of PS3 owners with your HD video on AVCHD or HDV, but you don't need BD media for that. I'd buy a BD burner tomorrow if Blu-Ray was a viable format. But it's inexcusable to have compatibility issues at this stage.

Tom Roper,

You heard that Panasonic and Sony players have problems while I heard that with the latest firmware, they don’t have a problem at least with BD-R media. Theirs no point in someone taking my word or yours if we never tried it. That’s why I believe its best to have someone who actually tried it with their own player to verify it. Besides, even if there are a few players such as the Pioneers that have problems, they have until October when this camcorder is released to provide a firmware update.

Paulo,
Sony and Panasonic are not stating compatibility with BD-R/RE. In fact, I believe you will find express disclaimers. There are ample examples of standalone Blu-Ray players not playing BD-R/RE already. While I sincerely hope that future firmware upgrades will bring BD-R/RE compatibility, I find it unsatisfactory that you have to rely on the owner to upgrade his firmware when any disk calling itself "Blu-Ray" should be compatible out of the gate, sorry.

According to SS Scott, moderator at the Roxio forums, what's happening behind the scenes may not be good.

There are two types of BD authoring, BDAV (no menus, no interactive) and BDMV (interactive with menus).

BDAV authoring is intended for users to burn their content like camcorder footage onto BD-R/RE media, and the interactive format BDMV was intended for BD-ROM. But a ripped copy from BD-ROM looks just like BDMV authored for BD-R/RE, so under studio pressure, namely Sony, the simple fix is to disable BD-R/RE playback. While some first generation Sony Blu-Ray players added BD-R/RE playback in a firmware update, the newest 2nd generation Sony player the BDP-S300 has eliminated it. Speculation is that future firmware updates may retroactively disable BD-R/RE playback, even on the PS3.

It is still speculation, but it comes from a good source.

Needless to say, it's confusing and disappointing, and puts Blu-Ray authoring on BD-R/RE into a state of uncertainty.

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=25294
http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=23713

ASpeculation is that future firmware updates may retroactively disable BD-R/RE playback, even on the PS3.

It is still speculation, but it comes from a good source.

Needless to say, it's confusing and disappointing, and puts Blu-Ray authoring on BD-R/RE into a state of uncertainty.

http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=25294
http://forums.support.roxio.com/index.php?showtopic=23713
I do believe that if there’s no physical hardware limitation on the player than their will be a firmware update on the tiny fraction of units that’s affected by this since there are multiples times more PS3’s than all of the stand-alone Blu-Ray players put together. I don’t have to mention how much problems some of the original DVD players had with blank media. You couldn’t get firmware updates for those. Still, this camcorder already plays on most Blu-Ray players.

I’m about to help people get their documentaries distributed on Blu-Ray and HD DVD and if Sony ever disables BR-R playback on the PS3, they’ll be havoc because this allows Producers to see how their feature will look like before they send it off to a disc manufacturer. They can always buy one without the latest firmware update but its still a bad idea. This would be the worst thing they can ever do to Blu-Ray but I’m not worried about it at all because other than Pioneer, Panasonic, Hitachi, etc, Sony also makes Blu-Ray burners.

The way I see it, why would you not want HD footage on mini Blu-Ray discs as apposed to standard mini DVD’s? That’s a full 7.5 gigs of storage for a single layer disc. Hitachi is in a very good position knowing that they will be the first company to advance to newer technology.

There are already around 5 million Blu-Ray units in people’s homes and yes that does include the PS3 and look how quickly PS3 sales got to be once Sony decided to decrease the price by 100 dollars. Sales went up by around 135%. People are already seeing it as a great media box and other than playing video games and watching Blu-Ray movies; you can serf the web, watch photos and view HDV and AVCHD files on a Data DVD. Because of that, your average consumer doesn’t need to know anything about authoring discs in order to play it on a PS3. If you think about it, the PS3 is the perfect compliment for a TV station just as long as the interns don’t use it for games when their working, On break that’s a different story. Anyway, If you don’t have a Blu-Ray player, it wont matter that much because you can hook up the camcorder to an HD TV thru HDMI or component.

Look how convenient the hard drive version is. You can record your footage on the hard drive and make Blu-Ray copies on the camcorder without using a computer. That’s a great way to give out copies to your friends.

Back in 2000, Hitachi was the first to release a consumer mini DVD camcorder and they sold so fast that Panasonic had to immediately make their own, and once Sony saw how popular they were, they decided to release their own version as well and now, even Canon has mini DVD based camcorders. The same thing will happen to this camcorder where the other companies will have to release their own version.

it would be great if you could put existing hdv tape footage to the hard drive then make blue-ray disks but wishfull thinking probobly.chris

First, I'll be the first to admit any camcorder has to be seen to believe the hype, but this looks almost unbeatable on paper. Here's a link to E-MediaLive.com's article on the new Hitachi Blu-Ray camcorder that records 1080p to either a hard-drive or an 8cm single sided Bly-Ray disc.
http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID=13047

For what it claims it can do, the price is unbelievable too, $1299 for Blu-Ray disc only, $1499 for a 30GB Hard drive and Blu-Ray recorder. This one will even dub from the Hard drive to the Blu-Ray disc in the camera.

Wow... That looks sounds wicked!

~Gabriel

Some extra details to note:
For the good news, the dubbing from hard drive to Buy-Ray is 2X and it has a microphone input. For the bad news, besides lack of 24p, there is another thing that may turn some people away is the fact that it uses an electronic image stabilizer as apposed to optical but since it records in 1920X1080, it may not be a problem. It has manual focusing but it’ll be just as bad as what Sony, Canon and Panasonic uses. Like I stated earlier, it should have had a manual focusing ring, you know, the traditional kind, not the gimmicks that aren’t as easy to use.

With all that said, I still wouldn’t mind owning this camcorder. In fact, if I had the money I would purchase it the first day it’s released in Japan. Like Philip, I’m also fascinated about that dubbing and clip splitting feature. That’s perfect for making a simple documentary or a film although it would have been better if the hard drive was bigger because a lot of good documentaries for example need a bare minimum of several hours’ worth of footage before it’s edited to around 1 hour. Anyway, I hope the accuracy of the cuts isn’t bad.




Hitachi should also release a professional version with a 64 gig Solid State Drive and a 6X Blu-Ray burner.

The technology is already hare:
http://www.technologynewsdaily.com/node/7090
http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/19/lgs-2nd-gen-super-multi-blue-blu-ray-hd-dvd-hybrid-drives-and/

Photos:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/7931/gallery/
http://www.engadget.com/photos/hands-on-with-hitachis-dz-bd70e-and-dz-bd7he-blu-ray-camcorders-2/

Is there anywhere to see some image samples either from the 4.3Mpix still frames or video?

Here is a video of a Hitachi representative talking about this camcorder. http://techvideoblog.com/ifa/hitachi-hybrid-hd-camcorder/

I’m sure some of you will recognize the voice of the person who made this video. He’s been contributing a lot every time he goes to these types of shows. I have also posted his RAW JVC HD1000 clip in this thread:
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=738783#post738783

I haven’t found any RAW samples for Hitachi’s HD camcorders yet.

Japanese watch.impress Hitachi DZ-BD7H review: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.watch.impress.co.jp%2Fav%2Fdocs%2F20070905%2Fzooma321.htm&langpair=ja%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

With video and still frames samples.