Just found this new promo video for XDCAM EX and XDCAM HD422 on Sony's US website.

XDCAM EX + XDCAM HD422 (mms://wm.vitalstreamcdn.com/sony_vitalstream_com/xdcamDVD.wmv)

Enjoy it! :-)

Hey thnx Ivan for the link. It had specific specs I desired to know about the ex cam. 3 1/2" ccds 1080i 60i 24p and my favorite 720 60p. Should be a lot of fun getting my hands on one when released.

Thanks Ivan :D

I was really hoping it would record 4:2:2 to SxS. Oh well. I thought it was too good to be true.

Cool! CCD's instead of CMOS! I'm happy!

Cheers Vaughan

Hey thnx Ivan for the link. It had specific specs I desired to know about the ex cam. 3 1/2" ccds 1080i 60i 24p and my favorite 720 60p. Should be a lot of fun getting my hands on one when released.

The video said that the XDCAM EX has 3 1/2" sensors. It did not say 3 CCDs. Sony has not described the sensors yet (although they made reference to the sensors having some revolutionary new technology in a previous video)

You're right Tom.

My apologies to all....just shows you what excitement does!!

The fact that they are talking about low power sensors probably leans towards CMOS chips, sad!

Funny that they're not telling us one way or another!

I'll just have to tell all the photgraphers to stop using their flashes all day at my weddings if it's true, plays havoc with my slow motion.

Cheers Vaughan

You're right Tom.



I'll just have to tell all the photgraphers to stop using their flashes all day at my weddings if it's true, plays havoc with my slow motion.

Cheers Vaughan
Its really not THAT bad... well at 35mbps its barely noticable.. maybe 6 frames are affected if that... and its not like its gettin totally nuked..unlike HDV which pukes...

ive got high hopes for the EX.. heres hoping they dont shoot themselves...

Exciting stuff! I wonder why Sony wouldn't reveal what the imagers are going to be... I'd guess it's CCD, and they don't want to admit retreating from CMOS for as long as possible...

Wishful thinking I think Piotr!!!!

Vaughan

Wishful thinking I think Piotr!!!!

Vaughan

Well, actually I have nothing against the current CMOS imagers as used in the V1 (I'm using one and am very satisfied with it); just think that with larger chips, the CCD technology is more matured.

Just found this new promo video for XDCAM EX and XDCAM HD422 on Sony's US website.

XDCAM EX + XDCAM HD422 (mms://wm.vitalstreamcdn.com/sony_vitalstream_com/xdcamDVD.wmv)

Enjoy it! :-)

the link not working :-/

Hi Robert,

Go to this page: http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/markets/10014/xdcam_index.shtml

And click on the XDCAM EX logo on the left under the picture.

Personally, I hope they use the same cmos technology on my HV20, that way I won't be so tempted to buy one. I know they have ways of working around the rolling shutter issue (RED, does I hope) with the higher end cams. But if this camera's chips are CMOS based I would not preorder one, but wait and see what the fine people of this board would say about the camera first.

I heard EX SERIES a few times. Is this going to be it's own sub class of cam?

Hi Robert,

Go to this page: http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/markets/10014/xdcam_index.shtml

And click on the XDCAM EX logo on the left under the picture.

Hi Ivan,

i tried but same error ... :(

About the only new info in that entire video is that the camera can do over cranking and under cranking. This was one of the few things Panasonic users said the HVX200 would still have an advantage on. They didn't however say how it would work and if it is only really limited to 720p at 24p like the HVX200 by using the 60p frames as 24p. If SONY is actually reclocking the chips (which can be done with CMOS) to have slow motion with 1080 and any destination framerate then that is pretty amazing. Hopefully it isn't like the lame slow motion feature on the V1 where it does true slow motion but at a very low resolution. Now that I think about the video a little bit more I'm not sure how they are going to do it. The video clearly states as do any of the specs that have been out already that 720p mode can only record 50p and 60p. There is no mention of 24p for 720p. 24p seems to only be for 1080. In a way that kind of makes sense. 720p 50p and 60p are different then 1080i 50i and 60i and have two different markets and while one can be converted to the other it is sometimes best to start with the desired format. For 24p shooting however if you had a choice between 1080p 24p and 720p 24p who would ever choose 720p 24p? Even if you wanted 720p 24p in the end it would be best to still shoot 1080p 24p and then down convert. Anyway if the camera doesn't record 720p 24p then how are they doing slow motion in camera? They either reclock the chips or do the low resolution method. I doubt they would brag about the feature if it was the low rez version because nobody would ever use it. We will have to wait to see more info on this feature.

4:2:0 at true progressive framerates is very good so the 4:2:2 isn't as big of a deal as some would like to think although it still would have been great to have 4:2:2. Having 4:2:2 would have pretty much been the final nail in the HVX200 coffin, not that the HVX200 is bad in any way. For me the only time I would really want 4:2:2 will be when I am hooked up via HD-SDI in my bluescreen studio so it doesn't really matter to me either way. For me having 4:2:2 in camera would have been a really sweet bonus but it is not a deal breaker in any way at all.

For me the only time I would really want 4:2:2 will be when I am hooked up via HD-SDI in my bluescreen studio so it doesn't really matter to me either way. For me having 4:2:2 in camera would have been a really sweet bonus but it is not a deal breaker in any way at all.

If you're hooked up direct to the camera head via HDSDI, on any of the current camera offerings, you're getting 4:2:2.

The over/under crank works exactly like it does on the big brother F350. They alter the time of recording a single frame and then play it back at the desired frame rate. When you undercrank a lot, the live playback in the vf looks blurry and stuttered. But when you play it back at full speed, it looks beautiful. I've got some stuff I shot in the car at normal freeway speed at 12fps. Played back at 30fps, it looks like we're at Daytona. The resolution is full when you undercrank, and drops to half vertical when you overcrank. But when you playback the overcrank, it doesn't look like you're missing anything. I demo'd some overcrank stuff in my class at NAB of a golf ball being struck. You can see every nick and scratch on the golf club, and every scuff mark on the ball. It's a lot like shooting 60i and de-interlacing in post, only the hardware does a much better job of reconstructing the full frame, and does it in real time.

-gb-

The video said that the XDCAM EX has 3 1/2" sensors. It did not say 3 CCDs. Sony has not described the sensors yet (although they made reference to the sensors having some revolutionary new technology in a previous video)

Checked back over it. Sorry about that. Your correct.

greg,


forgive me if i'm wrong, but, i thought the EX was capable of recording at 720 60p, like the jvc 250. i believe the reason for the halfing of the resolution in the 350 was because it only recorded in 23.98p and 29.97p in 1080 not in 60p like the ex and the jvc 250 to get its varible frame rates



*When capturing at 31-60 fps (in 23.98P/29.97P mode)/26-50 fps (in
25P mode), the camcorders provide lower vertical resolution than in normal
capturing mode.


rand

i believe the reason for the halfing of the resolution in the 350 was because it only recorded in 23.98p and 29.97p in 1080 not in 60p like the ex and the jvc 250 to get its varible frame rates

It halves the vertical resolution above 30fps in order to keep up. The internals can't process a full frame at that speed, so it essentially captures odd lines, then even lines every 1/60 (@60p overcrank setting), and then plays them back at the rate of 30 or 24 frames a second depending on the normal speed you have chosen in the menu.

It's a bit difficult to explain when typing it out, but that's the basics of it.

-gb-

greg

thanks for clearing that up for me


rand

Since they are mentioning in the promo the full 1920x1080 resolution of the HD422 chips, those of the EX will have less - does anyone know if it's 1440x1080, or even less?

Since they are mentioning in the promo the full 1920x1080 resolution of the HD422 chips, those of the EX will have less - does anyone know if it's 1440x1080, or even less?

I strongly suspect 1440x1080. Pretty much the same chip as the full size 1/2 cameras.

-gb-

In the video they also used the words NEW and LOW POWER when describing the imagers. That suggests CMOS could be a real possibility.

Given Sony's love for their "Clearvid" technology I wouldn't be surprised if the EX comes with CMOS chips - I have to say I prefer the look of Sony's V1 footage over that of the Z1 when it's properly exposed. Has a sharpness and cleanness to it that's a bit more appealing to my eye than the footage from the Z1's CCDs.

What are the issues people have had with CMOS chips by the way? I've heard that people are still a little iffy about them.

Mark, I'm very pleased with the picture from my V1 CMOS'es, as well - however, somehow I've no confidence in large 1/2" chips that have never been used before. The CCD technology is much more matured.

Mark, I'm very pleased with the picture from my V1 CMOS'es, as well - however, somehow I've no confidence in large 1/2" chips that have never been used before. The CCD technology is much more matured.

Very large CMOS chips are far from new. The only reason they're not common is there's been no need for them. One advantage of CMOS is the photosites can cover more of the available area. Not a big drive for that with 2/3" SD chips. Big drive for that with small HD chips. However 1/2" CMOS HD chips should be a very good thing, larger photosite = more latitude + better low light performance.
Scaling up the size of the photosites isn't usually a problem, there's a camera out with 65mm sized sensors, it's scalind down when things get difficult.

Given Sony's love for their "Clearvid" technology I wouldn't be surprised if the EX comes with CMOS chips - I have to say I prefer the look of Sony's V1 footage over that of the Z1 when it's properly exposed. Has a sharpness and cleanness to it that's a bit more appealing to my eye than the footage from the Z1's CCDs.

What are the issues people have had with CMOS chips by the way? I've heard that people are still a little iffy about them.

I'm very happy with the CMOS in my HC3 and V1U. I really like how the cameras handle scenes with a lot of contrast. For sure better than any of my older CCD cameras.

Personally I hope the EX does come with CMOS imagers.

Chris

It halves the vertical resolution above 30fps in order to keep up. The internals can't process a full frame at that speed, so it essentially captures odd lines, then even lines every 1/60 (@60p overcrank setting), and then plays them back at the rate of 30 or 24 frames a second depending on the normal speed you have chosen in the menu.

It's a bit difficult to explain when typing it out, but that's the basics of it.

-gb-

Are you certain thats the way the EX will work however? The V1 for example does process in the DSP 1080p 60 before it converts it to 30p or 60i. Having a DSP that can either pump out 60i or 60p to record to 1080 or 720p means it may actually contain 1080 60p. From this stage the encoder and DSP could move to any of the desired recording formats such as 30p, 60i or 720p 60p with very little problems. If the slow motion on the Ex works the way the higher end cameras do then I think I would much rather shoot 720p 60p and do the slow motion myself. If I had to choose between a 1440x540 based image and a 1280x720 based image I would choose the 720p one. Unless of chourse SONY will be recording the 720p mode by just converting the 60i to 720p 60p which doesn't really make it all that special then. I sure hope the 720p mode is really 720p and not bobbed and downscaled 1080i.

Looking at the attached pic, I wonder: if one channel is set to internal, and the other to external, does the on-board stereo mic switch into mono mode, or simply feeds one channel only?

Also, no mention or picture of any other output but the FiWi and SDI... How do I connect to a lower -end field monitor with components-in only?

Are you certain thats the way the EX will work however? The V1 for example does process in the DSP 1080p 60 before it converts it to 30p or 60i. Having a DSP that can either pump out 60i or 60p to record to 1080 or 720p means it may actually contain 1080 60p. From this stage the encoder and DSP could move to any of the desired recording formats such as 30p, 60i or 720p 60p with very little problems. If the slow motion on the Ex works the way the higher end cameras do then I think I would much rather shoot 720p 60p and do the slow motion myself. If I had to choose between a 1440x540 based image and a 1280x720 based image I would choose the 720p one. Unless of chourse SONY will be recording the 720p mode by just converting the 60i to 720p 60p which doesn't really make it all that special then. I sure hope the 720p mode is really 720p and not bobbed and downscaled 1080i.

The Sony Japan man at NAB did say "all frame rates from 1fps to 60fps", make of that what you will.

I have only worked with consumer grade Sony cams, no XDCam stuff, and one thing I noticed was their high in-camera sharpening. It causes all kinds of artifacting, at least in HDV. I think it is why so many consumers like the look of Sony cams, but it causes problems. I hope we see something different here.

Are you certain thats the way the EX will work however? The V1 for example does process in the DSP 1080p 60 before it converts it to 30p or 60i. Having a DSP that can either pump out 60i or 60p to record to 1080 or 720p means it may actually contain 1080 60p. From this stage the encoder and DSP could move to any of the desired recording formats such as 30p, 60i or 720p 60p with very little problems. If the slow motion on the Ex works the way the higher end cameras do then I think I would much rather shoot 720p 60p and do the slow motion myself. If I had to choose between a 1440x540 based image and a 1280x720 based image I would choose the 720p one. Unless of chourse SONY will be recording the 720p mode by just converting the 60i to 720p 60p which doesn't really make it all that special then. I sure hope the 720p mode is really 720p and not bobbed and downscaled 1080i.

Since the bigger cameras don't do 720P, I can't comment on how that will be processed. It's very possible that you might get full vertical res for overcranking in 720p. It would be a lot like how the RED camera can do higher framerates at the expense of resolution to keep the datastream to a manageable size. That's really what it comes down go... how much data can the guts handle at a given moment. The more you increase that ability, the higher priced the components become, and hence the final selling price of the camera. So, to hit a price target from all the market research, designers have to make concessions here and there to get the most bang at the desired buck, so to speak.

-gb-

I strongly suspect 1440x1080. Pretty much the same chip as the full size 1/2 cameras.

I heard from someone that has a demo unit that they are NOT 1440x1080. That's all the info I could get out of him though. Wait...he did say the '1080' part was correct, so I am going to figure on 1920x1080...

Looking at the attached pic, I wonder: if one channel is set to internal, and the other to external, does the on-board stereo mic switch into mono mode, or simply feeds one channel only?

...and has anyone seen if there is a phantom power switch? I would assume there is phantom power, but figure the switch should be visible close to the audio controls.

...and has anyone seen if there is a phantom power switch? I would assume there is phantom power, but figure the switch should be visible close to the audio controls.

If you have a look at this picture you would see that there is a phantom power switch:

http://dvinfo.net/conf/attachment.php?attachmentid=2780&d=1176711806

This switch is usually placed near the audio inputs.

Brian

Frankly, I can only see the line-mic switches there - but they must be there somewhere, perhaps underneath...

My other doubt is about the LCD size; it looks quite small in proportion to the camera - so either the EX is really bulky, or Sony have chosen a screen size lower than the 3.5" (so far, standard on their pro hand-helds).

If you look closely you'll see that it is a 3-way switch: line / mic / mic +48V for each of the 2 inputs. It's the same type of switch found on all shoulder mounted Sony cams.

Brian

I heard from someone that has a demo unit that they are NOT 1440x1080. That's all the info I could get out of him though. Wait...he did say the '1080' part was correct, so I am going to figure on 1920x1080...

That's possible, but the native resolution of XDCAM HD is 1440x1080. They could oversample using higher res imagers, but for compatibility with existing XDCAM HD material, it should be 1440x1080 coming out.

That someone's initials wouldn't be JE would they?

-gb-

In the video they also used the words NEW and LOW POWER when describing the imagers. That suggests CMOS could be a real possibility.It appears that they are indeed using CMOS chips... if this qualifies as confirmation -- check this out: http://www.videomag.gr/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1263 -- note the "3CMOS" in that image?

It appears that they are indeed using CMOS chips... if this qualifies as confirmation -- check this out: http://www.videomag.gr/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1263 -- note the "3CMOS" in that image?

What I really notice is that this image is not the XDCAM HD EX. Note that the lens is not the full 3 ring Fujinon and the camera is labeled HD XMCAM.

This is an entirely new camera if it really exists.

-gb-

Yes,

Many of the buttons are in different positions and it looks less complicated!

A cheaper version in beta form perhaps? Z1 type replacement?

Cheers Vaughan

C'mon people, its a (crappy) vaporware mock up, don't belive everything you see on the net...

That particular image is a concept mockup from an earlier stage of development.

Is there an echo in here? ;)

Ha! Ha! I was showing my support for your theory...

:o)

Aint no theory, got told that by someone at Sony. Should be seeing the holy grail itself later today, although this post may get deleted after the non-disclosure signing...

You're seeing it...? Drool!

Just sign the NDA "M. Mouse" and then you can tell us all ;-D

C'mon people, its a (crappy) vaporware mock up, don't belive everything you see on the net...

Easy there Jamie. I don't know why they need to show a mock-up when the real XDCAM EX has already been unveiled. I'm inclined to believe that it is a mock-up as you say, so why didn't the website obtain pictures of the real thing?

Besides, with everything moving towards flash based acquisition, it's not out of the realm that a lower cost camera with less professional orientation such as the one pictured might get produced.

And no, I don't believe everything I see on the net.

-gb-