Here's the scenario. I have a couple booked for an August 10th wedding. The put down a retainer and picked a package several months ago. There next payment was July 10th (in 5 days). A final payment was due 8 weeks AFTER the wedding.

I got a call yesterday and the client wanted to downgrade the package, which means I'd be making about $900 less. My policy is that you can always upgrade your package before the wedding, but you can't downgrade it. After all, I have to budget for equipment and software upgrades and such.

So I told the client that they couldn't downgrade. Today I get a call and they've decided to just cancel services, AND they're cancelling services with my wife (who was doing their photography).

Now I'm tempted to break my policy and let them downgrade, since it's very unlikely that we'll book another wedding for that date within the next month. But I'm also worried about breaking my own policy, and possibly setting a trend.

What would you guys do?

Hey Travis,

Sorry to hear your problems. However, I must say I would have done the exact same if I were that couple, I mean why won't you let folk downgrade?

You don't have to buy software upgrades & new equipment for every wedding, do you? Well most guys I know would have their equipment anyhow, possibly rent some stuff if needed, but if the downgrade was in the time frame you have siad then you could always cancel any gear you were going to rent.

To be honest, I think you need to review your policy, that's my honest opinion.

HTH,
Alan

I guess you have to evaluate your current situation. Do you need this money? If so I would make the client happy, perhaps they have run into some financial trouble which is why they need to downgrade. We make our lowest package at least worth my while to shoot. It requires the least amount of work yet I am paid handsomely for my effort, probably better than my most popular package. So again it comes down to whether you need the money and maybe a slight bad talking behind your back.

Good luck

I mean why won't you let folk downgrade?Because the date is now blocked out for any other potential clients that would book this package for that same amount.

The couple most likely went over budget and as always, they look to us to accomodate them. I say stick to the agreement. If they walk at least you have something.

50% of something is better than 100% of nothing, not to mention that by taking a hard line the possible damage to your reputation could cost you way more than $900.
However you have to decide what's best for you but if it were me I would go back to them and salvage what I could.

Don

I agree, you should try to work a "fair" deal somehwere in between. I'd be really frank with them in your situation and hopefully they'll be honest about theirs. It's a little crappy of them frankly to do what they did without just coming out and saying "Look, we need to downgrade because we've gone over budget, I know it's not part of your custom procedure but could you make an exception?" Instead they just cancel. You'll have to tread lightly on this one. If they are willing to be so rash, it might be something better off avoiding alltogether.

You didn't specifically state that if you cancelled, do you keep the deposit?

Jon

Because the date is now blocked out for any other potential clients that would book this package for that same amount.



Surely it doesn't make a difference what package is booked once they have the date booked. I mean is these folk booked the lowest package, then another couple called to book the highest package on the same date, would you cancel the first booking you took in order to take the higher one?

I certainly wouldn't, the way I see it is that when a couple books you they book you for the day, it is bad luck that they want to downgrade but as Travis said himself he has no problem with customers that want to upgrade!! Shouldn't he take the bad with the good?

Unless the retainer paid so far is $900 or more, the couple could just cancel the existing contract, lose the deposit, and rebook for the cheaper package... so your policy really wouldn't prevent anyone from downgrading to begin with.

I think you should scrap the policy, since you really have no reason to block them - unless you've hired on additional help and rented gear already that you can't refund, you have nothing holding you to the higher costs associated with a more extensive package. You should still be able to profit, and the customer is happy.

I want to thank all of you for posting your honest opinions. I really appreciate the input. The overwhelming majority seems to think that I should either back down and/or change my current policy, so I think I will offer the couple the option in this case and re-evaluate my current policy.

However, I do want to explain why I don't allow downgrades, so everyone can understand. I believe in constantly re-investing in my business - software, hardware, education, pay raises for my assistants, etc. The amount I decide to reinvest is based on what I book. A lot of people go over-budget on their weddings, and if my policy allows people to downgrade whenever, then it makes it easy for me to be the first target for downgrading. I'm trying to avoid that. It's hard enough to sell video in the first place, so the last thing I wanted to do was make it easier for me to make less money by allowing people to downgrade when their other vendors won't.

Anyways. Thanks for all the opinions, and if anyone else has any others feel free to continue posting them.

I think that you should lock it in both ways. That makes it look less like pure greed on your part. If they can't downgrade, they can't upgrade after booking since you won't have the necessary resources booked for the higher end package.

I'm not saying you're greedy, just that it can appear to your clients that way if they don't get to hear the why's and what for-s.

Hope you can salvage that client, cause if they cancelled as a result of your overly restrictive policy, and cancelled your wife's services to boot, I'm guessing they're not real happy with you at the moment.

-gb-

Yeah, I just know that couples go over budget all the time, and I don't want to be the first one they come to for downgrades. I'd rather book packages with people that know they can pay for them, because that allows me to prepare a budget for the rest of the year. It's hard to do that if you know any or all of your clients might end up downgrading because they had "big eyes" when they first booked with you.

Let us know how it goes. You might even show them this thread to show your sincerity & transparency. I would hire you in a second.

I didn't detect it, but if you *did* sense a bridezilla, you'd be right to fight. I don't think you're setting a precident.

What would you guys do?

Just "turn off" any emotions and make a business decision, to find a last minute deal will be easier for them than for you, so instead of loosing two contracts I'd give up a bit and save whatever I can, plus, you know how it goes, wedding is always financially tough, so give'em a brake,
When I use any kind of service, I know that I can change my mind any time about package, or price, or whatever,
but before the service is provided :-)

Just "turn off" any emotions and make a business decision, to find a last minute deal will be easier for them than for you, so instead of loosing two contracts I'd give up a bit and save whatever I can, plus, you know how it goes, wedding is always financially tough, so give'em a brake,
When I use any kind of service, I know that I can change my mind any time about package, or price, or whatever,
but before the service is provided :-)

Just to clarify, I had no "emotional" involvement in my initial decision. I was simply standing by the rules of the contract.

Also, I would disagree about changing your mind at any time. Whenever I sign a contract I understand that I'm making a commitment just as much as the guy providing the services.

For those that wanted to know, I did contact the couple again and offered them two options; an increase in the time that there final payment is due (from 8 weeks to 24 weeks AFTER the wedding date), or they could downgrade their package. They were very glad to hear I was willing to work with them, so I feel I'm making the best decision overall. (Dana: there was no "bridezilla" going on, or else I definitely would have just stood by the contract, lol).

In the future I'm still going to tell my couples that they cannot downgrade their package and it will remain in the contract, but when a situation like this arises again I will definitely consider making an exception. I do think it's important to tell the client when they first call and try to downgrade that they cannot do it. That way, if they're just trying to spend that money elsewhere (like flowers or something), I'm not getting the shaft. But if it comes down to them not being able to financially do the package they are booked for, at that point I will allow for exceptions.

Thanks again for everyone's input. Seriously!

"due to demand for our services, the XYZ package may not be avaiklable during peak periods""

This is a statement i put on the smaller wedding packages in turn, those that usually do want to downgrade end up finding that they cant becuase the package in question isnt being offered.

Ive had clients postpone, in turn missing out on at least 6 potentials for that same day.. of that 6 at least 4 would have booked. But before they postponed, they asked for cheaper retainer.. Obcviously they knew there might be an issue womewhere along the lines, but they locked me in either way, in turn, i have to now stick to my Agreement to hold their retainer for 12 months until an available date is open.

Now i dont like doing this as it means i need to now find another cloent for that day, BUT what happens if i cant?
I cant recoup those losses and what happens if this particular client decides they want to get maried during peak season NEXT year.. when my prices have increased..

the issue we face is a human one.. we need to be able to adapt, but we also need to stick to our guns as best we can
In this case, the fact that they were close to cancelling ur wifes photogoraphy services in addition to your own, makes it worthwhile to make the effort to cut your losses..
Hey at least you got work.. there are many producers out there desperate for work, be thankful they were open to your approach after being told no. People dont like hearing the word no, so u gotta be realy careful, especially with joint services.

Definitely every case is going to be different, but I think I handled this one well (if not by accident). By saying no to them at first, and standing by my contract, I learned more about their situation . . because when they came back and were ready to just cancel the services I knew that this wasn't about putting money they had into something else, it was simply that they no longer had the money to pay for the services they booked.

At that point, I then still had a choice to stand by my contract or make an exception. Since I was probably too close to rebook, and since my wife was going to lose business as well, it was the right business call to make the exception.

The only thing I might do differently in the future is to not let the client off of the phone after they've said they were going to have to cancel. If I'm going to make an exception, I need to make it while we're still having that call. Otherwise it might appear to the client that I don't care about them, and my follow up phone call won't do any good because they'll have already set their emotions against me.

Who knew wedding videography could be such tricky business, lol.

Definitely every case is going to be different, but I think I handled this one well (if not by accident). By saying no to them at first, and standing by my contract, I learned more about their situation . . because when they came back and were ready to just cancel the services I knew that this wasn't about putting money they had into something else, it was simply that they no longer had the money to pay for the services they booked.

At that point, I then still had a choice to stand by my contract or make an exception. Since I was probably too close to rebook, and since my wife was going to lose business as well, it was the right business call to make the exception.

The only thing I might do differently in the future is to not let the client off of the phone after they've said they were going to have to cancel. If I'm going to make an exception, I need to make it while we're still having that call. Otherwise it might appear to the client that I don't care about them, and my follow up phone call won't do any good because they'll have already set their emotions against me.

Who knew wedding videography could be such tricky business, lol.
well yeah.. it is..

thing with any business, is that umming and arring doesnt make it easier for you, so having a response immediately (ie a set of standards and procedures which you follow) is paramount.
I do this wiht my contract in turn, it answers any question or query that might pop up.
I spend enough time on admin crap which digs into actual editign time and i dont have time for things like this, so even if it might seem redundant, its there. Some say a 7 page contract is too much, but thast how long it is, and in turn, every detail is written out for them before they even bother to ask me.

My website is very similar and i am yet to have anyone email me with specific qustions about my services as ive already answered their queries before tehy even thought to ask them

The point is, that you dont want to put any more energy into somethign that wont make money for you.
yes there is an art to what we do, but in the end, that art needs to paid along with all the other bills.

Calling people back after a refusal can be quite embaressing to them, as well as yourself as they might feel tht your desperate for the work, but IMO, NEVER reveal all ur cards until the final hand is at stake, i think u did OK, but NEVER EVER let a client hang up when your tryin to work out a compromise. Put them on hold, tell them you need to consult your accountant to reqrite teh books (as the job is already in the books you see) whatever.. keep them there until you can work out a solution.

Dont make the solution a part of your contract though as people will exploit it, but keep it on hand to ensure that you can at least answer a client on the spot without the need to have to think about it.

Personally, ive never had a client downscale their package, but if any were inclined, i woudl let them, Not only for the fact that ive already put so much energy into the job by meeting them etc etc, but also for the fact that the
job itself will always have another job to offset that "loss"

is that you now have a much happier client. Word -of-mouth alone about a videographer who cares about his clients and is willing to work with them to the degree that you are may be enough to make this lesson even more worthwhile.

I would make sure every client is in clear and full understanding of the terms of the contract, and then stick to the contract. If there is a family emergency or a similar contingency that is out of the client's control, only then would I consider giving them a break. In my experience, being a 'nice guy' about pricing and broken contracts not only means I'm the one who takes the hit, but it hardly ever ended up benefitting me later on. People who want to pay less almost always expect more - in the end it is not worth my time and 99% of the time I'd always wished I'd walked away from a deal like that. I can easily find someone else willing to pay my regular rates. 'YMMV' (your mileage may vary).

I'm not following the complete thread but can only wonder if your payment policy (thirds?) actually promotes this kind of downgrading.

The more money you have prior to the wedding in the form of a retainer will deter such changes - since that sizeable retainer is forfeited should they cancel.

It seems to me that a downgrade is better than losing the job. Just make sure your cheapest package is still worth doing. If you already hired an extra camera operator and now need to cancel, give him part of the retainer.

"People who want to pay less almost always expect more - in the end it is not worth my time and 99% of the time I'd always wished I'd walked away from a deal like that."

Guys remember THIS, becuase it will be the bane of your existance..
im still dealing wiht a cliet who not only wanted a discount (and got it) but then wanted all the bells and whistles
Many people do not understand that they are not the only clients.. jsut trust me on that one..

In the end, i went back to the contract and stuck to my guns.
This bridezilla is now constantly on my back about delivery, even though i waited 8 months for her music.. go figure..

Higher flat rates, no packages ;) Hey, it's just a suggestion. I think talking through the problems at the original time on the phone would be a good policy. Your goal is to make a living doing this. Losing clients to stubborn policy, although good on paper, can lose more clients in the long run over time. Perhaps if you were to have offered that they could've cancelled forfeiting their down payment would've given them a nice out and you could've kept your policies intact.

Always take the time to discuss the contract and options with the client. Had you booked the extra help for that package for that weekend that you would've had to ask not to show up had they downgraded? Budgeting is all well and good, but "A bird in the hand is worth a basket of unhatched eggs that need counting"...

If the clients signed a contract, technically, you can get them for breach if they don't follow the letter of the contract. It's there to protect both you and them...this won't get you more business in the future though...word of mouth is much more powerful than the letter of the law anyday of the week...if that becomes a problem, not even a defamation of character suit will fix the damage done. I lost a business due to a bad partner many moons ago...it's taken about 10 years to rebuild the trust in the client base to repair that damage...clients have long memories and loud mouths.

I would make sure every client is in clear and full understanding of the terms of the contract, and then stick to the contract. If there is a family emergency or a similar contingency that is out of the client's control, only then would I consider giving them a break. In my experience, being a 'nice guy' about pricing and broken contracts not only means I'm the one who takes the hit, but it hardly ever ended up benefitting me later on. People who want to pay less almost always expect more - in the end it is not worth my time and 99% of the time I'd always wished I'd walked away from a deal like that. I can easily find someone else willing to pay my regular rates. 'YMMV' (your mileage may vary).

All my clients are fully aware of the terms of my contract. That doesn't always prevent them from asking for an exception, however.

You say you can always find someone to pay your regular rates, but can you book a wedding when the date is less than 30 days away? Not usually. Also, this wasn't about changing my rates. I would NEVER change my rates. This was about a client wanting to pick a smaller package after booking a larger one. Totally different story.

I'm not following the complete thread but can only wonder if your payment policy (thirds?) actually promotes this kind of downgrading.

The more money you have prior to the wedding in the form of a retainer will deter such changes - since that sizeable retainer is forfeited should they cancel.

I totally agree except that booking higher-end wedding videography in my market in numbers that can keep me in business is really tough. I learned very early on that people got much more interested in booking the larger packages when they found out that some of it wasn't due until after the wedding. My retainer is $600, which I don't think is anything for anyone to sneeze at. And in this case, they had also booked with my wife, which means they would have been walking away from over $1,000. Not a typical case by any means.

Oh, and this is the first time in nearly 5 years of using my payment system that someone has wanted to downgrade, so I think the policy is okay.

well yeah.. it is..

thing with any business, is that umming and arring doesnt make it easier for you, so having a response immediately (ie a set of standards and procedures which you follow) is paramount.
I do this wiht my contract in turn, it answers any question or query that might pop up.
I spend enough time on admin crap which digs into actual editign time and i dont have time for things like this, so even if it might seem redundant, its there. Some say a 7 page contract is too much, but thast how long it is, and in turn, every detail is written out for them before they even bother to ask me.

My website is very similar and i am yet to have anyone email me with specific qustions about my services as ive already answered their queries before tehy even thought to ask them

The point is, that you dont want to put any more energy into somethign that wont make money for you.
yes there is an art to what we do, but in the end, that art needs to paid along with all the other bills.

Calling people back after a refusal can be quite embaressing to them, as well as yourself as they might feel tht your desperate for the work, but IMO, NEVER reveal all ur cards until the final hand is at stake, i think u did OK, but NEVER EVER let a client hang up when your tryin to work out a compromise. Put them on hold, tell them you need to consult your accountant to reqrite teh books (as the job is already in the books you see) whatever.. keep them there until you can work out a solution.

Dont make the solution a part of your contract though as people will exploit it, but keep it on hand to ensure that you can at least answer a client on the spot without the need to have to think about it.

Personally, ive never had a client downscale their package, but if any were inclined, i woudl let them, Not only for the fact that ive already put so much energy into the job by meeting them etc etc, but also for the fact that the
job itself will always have another job to offset that "loss"

I agree. I probably made a mistake when I let the call end once they said they would have to cancel. However, I've never had anyone want to downgrade before, and I assumed if I ever did, then the prospect of losing their deposit would prevent them from cancelling. So I was in new water, which is why I posted here.

That said, even letting them end the call without giving in to the downgrade didn't seem to affect our relationship. When I called back, and told them that I had thought it over and preferred to work with them rather than find another couple, and would honor a downgrade, they were really happy and grateful. So I'm not even 100% certain that taking the situation to 3 different calls was a bad thing. Some people will threaten cancellation even though they don't plan on acting on it.

Anyways, I hope I'm not the only one he learned from this experience. Hopefully the discussion help some of the rest of you as well. Thanks for everyone's input!

Wow, so this ended very strangely. After providing the couple with the option to either downgrade their package or keep the current package and delay the final payment for 24 weeks, they ended up cancelling services.

They told me that they aren't really interested in the videography anymore and that they were going to go with a cheap photographer (who's work they haven't even seen yet). They had issues with my wife's photography, such as ....

- although they thought some of the engagement pictures were amazing, they thought some of them were just "okay" (I saw them, and I thought they were all pretty damn awesome, but whatever)

- they received 100 engagement prints as part of their package, but were apparently upset that they had to pay for additional prints ... really? ... since when do photographers just "give away" additional prints?

- their engagement pictures were online for a set number of days for them to make selections, then after they went offline, they wanted them back online, but were upset that it was going to cost an extra $20 to do that ... again, all part of the contract that they signed

- my wife also did a lot of extra stuff for them, which they never thanked her for

To make a long story short, I quickly realized today that they were going to be a problem couple - the type that you bend over backwards for and they don't appreciate a thing. We were actually discussing how to handle letting them know that maybe it wasn't a good idea for us to work with them, but they called back first and informed us that they were cancelling.

I can tell you that it made me happy!

I almost rolled out of my seat laughing at Travis's last post! Through this whole thread most people are saying, "bend for your client" while a couple business savy guys are saying, "A contract is a contract, pocket the money, say Sayonara, and stick to your professionalism". Travis fell into the sucker punch AFTER ALL! Very sorry for you Travis... but truelly... this is close to a SitCom script.

How about "other" business contracts. If you are a client and go sign a contract... do you think other business would let you get out of what it says RIGHT in the contract? Yeah right... they'd be sending Lugi over to take your car.

Why... why... do we have to be responsible for other people's mistakes (in this case they misbudgeted and Travis was the one who suffered). Make people responsible for what they do/sign. They read the contract, they knew what they were getting into. Anyways... I could go on... but I think you get my view. I'm with Peter & Dan! It's not "hardline", it's what it says in the contract for peats sake.

Though this turned out strangely, I don't think it is that bad an idea to be flexible a month before an event. Of course, every situation will be different but a month is enough notice to adjust your crew to avoid extra expenses. Note that I say "flexible" and not "bend over backwards". These people sound like trouble and it is probably best to be happy they are gone.

Carl, I hear you, and if this had all gone down like 3-6 months ago, I would have just stood by my contract and taken my chances at booking another wedding. However, with just 30 days to go, it's really unlikely that I'll book another wedding, and getting $1400 is better than getting $500, right? So I was prepared to make an exception.

Now I'm really glad they cancelled, because I don't want a client that can't be pleased no matter what you do. I told them I wish them the best, but I guess I lied, but secretly I hope it rains, snows and hails on their wedding day, lol.

You forgot lightning.

I really did LOL at that post, Travis. I guess laughter is good for the healing process as I had a bride that could never be pleased and it turned out really bad. If people are pushy or seem impossible to please, they have serious issues internally and it is best to keep away.

To me, one of the keys to being a professional is knowing how to work with people and not letting them get into your head. Calling clients or other professionals 'unaware', 'unbelievable' or 'unprofesional' and getting 'pissed off' and hoping their wedding is spoiled may blow off steam, but most pros deal with problems much worse than this on a daily basis and maintain an even temper. It's just a job and problems and personalities are part of what makes it interesting.

To me, one of the keys to being a professional is knowing how to work with people and not letting them get into your head.

Um, I didn't let the photographer get into my head . . SHE got into MY camera shot.


Calling clients or other professionals 'unaware', 'unbelievable' or 'unprofesional' and getting 'pissed off' and hoping their wedding is spoiled may blow off steam, but most pros deal with problems much worse than this on a daily basis and maintain an even temper.

I did maintain an even temper. I never said a word to the photographer OR the couple. Nothing. Even on here, I'm pretty sure I kept an even temper. If I can't blow off some steam with my fellow professionals, then where can I do it?


It's just a job and problems and personalities are part of what makes it interesting.

Cool. I'll remember and tell that to the bride as I'm explaining that I got no footage from my third camera. I'm sure she'll find it very "interesting".


And for the record, I deal with problems and issues on a daily basis as well. Sometimes, though, it helps to come on here and share one with everyone else. It's like therapy. We can't all be as strong as you I guess.

I did maintain an even temper. I never said a word to the photographer OR the couple. Nothing. Even on here, I'm pretty sure I kept an even temper. If I can't blow off some steam with my fellow professionals, then where can I do it?

I completely agree with you; however, we should all keep in mind that this message board is a "real names only" community and your name web address is in your signature and any client can find your postings using a quick Google search. It may be best to keep the venting to a minimum when venting about identifiable individuals.

I personally believe you did nothing terribly wrong when dealing with this situation, but I shudder at the potential word of mouth if the bride or groom did a Google search while they were killing time at work and found out that they were being discussed online. A scenario like that isn't out of the realm of possibility nowadays.

Asking about how to handle a situation is one thing, but my two cents would be to keep the venting offline.

I completely agree with you; however, we should all keep in mind that this message board is a "real names only" community and your name web address is in your signature and any client can find your postings using a quick Google search. It may be best to keep the venting to a minimum when venting about identifiable individuals.

I personally believe you did nothing terribly wrong when dealing with this situation, but I shudder at the potential word of mouth if the bride or groom did a Google search while they were killing time at work and found out that they were being discussed online. A scenario like that isn't out of the realm of possibility nowadays.

Asking about how to handle a situation is one thing, but my two cents would be to keep the venting offline.

I see your point, but I'll probably still vent every now and then, lol.

I take these on a case by case basis. We just had this happen yesterday and the Bride called us and indicated that they had some financial problems and they would not be having a reception. We met with them face to face and agreed to back our camera coverage down. We probably could have stuck to the contract but sometimes you just have to be human. The thing about contracts is that it give you the power of discretion. The couple was very thankful.

John

I take these on a case by case basis. We just had this happen yesterday and the Bride called us and indicated that they had some financial problems and they would not be having a reception. We met with them face to face and agreed to back our camera coverage down. We probably could have stuck to the contract but sometimes you just have to be human. The thing about contracts is that it give you the power of discretion. The couple was very thankful.

John

That's a good example where I would make an exception as well.

Travis -
I think the thing that many may be missing is they came to you READY to cancel everything - including the photog... they were prepared to walk the whole contract, NOT negotiate. You probably couldn't have won if you GAVE them the package. You can't negotiate with someone who has already "left the table". They already had another photog in place, right?

They obviously "found a better deal" with the mystery photog who probably gave them a cheap price - how pro can he/she be "steppng on" someone elses contract? I believe that in itself may be actionable with THAT bozo - inducement of breach/interference with YOUR contract - do that in Real estate and many other professions, and you'll be in big trouble... fast! If it's someone trying to "make a name" in your town, they should have one shortly, probably with approximately 4 letters... not a good "career move" IMO. Maybe he's in for "a lesson" too - fate brought them together after all <wink>!

You can't wish them much worse than they already will probably get - no video, and an unknown "cheap" photog... recipe for disaster. And I'll bet they call your wife to salvage the wreckage <wink> since you kept their deposit and they will expect "something".

They undoubtedly will get exactly what they're paying for. And they ate the deposit...

Venting is "good", but nowadays with the web, you want to be careful not to "cross the line" - maybe these poor souls will see themselves and recognize who they are, but you don't want anyone else recognizing them <wink>!


Some negotiatiing advice...
From your business standpoint, for future reference, try to suss out what the reason for the request is as quickly as possible (first call, as you've noted already). Don't say no right away (don't say yes either unless it's a clear decision), say you'll consider the request - "no" is a relationship killer. After they've had the chance to clearly tell you what they want and why, you don't want to shut them down, even if they aren't reasonable... give it a little time to settle - they may realize they aren't reasonable, and if you are trying to be, the chances are better things will resolve favorably. You already seem to be keeping a clear head, and that's half the battle when confronted with what seems absurd when someone wants to trash an agreement...

You may be out some on this job, but you might get a "lucky booking" too! Someone who'd be happy to get you at a "special reduced rate" since you can knock the deposit off your regular rate! You've learned a few things, and maybe escaped a nightmare client, that's worth a bundle! And we've all had the chance to consider a tough scenario for the day when it's our turn!

Best of luck on a backup booking!

Travis -
I think the thing that many may be missing is they came to you READY to cancel everything - including the photog... they were prepared to walk the whole contract, NOT negotiate. You probably couldn't have won if you GAVE them the package. You can't negotiate with someone who has already "left the table". They already had another photog in place, right?

They obviously "found a better deal" with the mystery photog who probably gave them a cheap price - how pro can he/she be "steppng on" someone elses contract? I believe that in itself may be actionable with THAT bozo - inducement of breach/interference with YOUR contract - do that in Real estate and many other professions, and you'll be in big trouble... fast! If it's someone trying to "make a name" in your town, they should have one shortly, probably with approximately 4 letters... not a good "career move" IMO. Maybe he's in for "a lesson" too - fate brought them together after all <wink>!

You can't wish them much worse than they already will probably get - no video, and an unknown "cheap" photog... recipe for disaster. And I'll bet they call your wife to salvage the wreckage <wink> since you kept their deposit and they will expect "something".

They undoubtedly will get exactly what they're paying for. And they ate the deposit...

Venting is "good", but nowadays with the web, you want to be careful not to "cross the line" - maybe these poor souls will see themselves and recognize who they are, but you don't want anyone else recognizing them <wink>!


Some negotiatiing advice...
From your business standpoint, for future reference, try to suss out what the reason for the request is as quickly as possible (first call, as you've noted already). Don't say no right away (don't say yes either unless it's a clear decision), say you'll consider the request - "no" is a relationship killer. After they've had the chance to clearly tell you what they want and why, you don't want to shut them down, even if they aren't reasonable... give it a little time to settle - they may realize they aren't reasonable, and if you are trying to be, the chances are better things will resolve favorably. You already seem to be keeping a clear head, and that's half the battle when confronted with what seems absurd when someone wants to trash an agreement...

You may be out some on this job, but you might get a "lucky booking" too! Someone who'd be happy to get you at a "special reduced rate" since you can knock the deposit off your regular rate! You've learned a few things, and maybe escaped a nightmare client, that's worth a bundle! And we've all had the chance to consider a tough scenario for the day when it's our turn!

Best of luck on a backup booking!

Thanks, Dave!

Oh, and they didn't have another photog yet, but they did have one in mind. They went shopping for him. Here's to hoping for a "lucky" booking. d;-)

HMMMM, booking a photog a month before the event in busy season.... THAT should be interesting... they'll be back... run, hide, don't answer that phone man!

HMMMM, booking a photog a month before the event in busy season.... THAT should be interesting... they'll be back... run, hide, don't answer that phone man!

Naw, they won't be back. There's always someone cheap and inexperienced available. They won't be happy with their pictures, but oh well. I'm done with them either way.

Now I'm really glad they cancelled, because I don't want a client that can't be pleased no matter what you do. I told them I wish them the best, but I guess I lied, but secretly I hope it rains, snows and hails on their wedding day, lol.

Wow. Bad luck with the brides lately? There was that crazy one you posted about a month or so ago and now this. Must be something in the water around here.

Glad to see they saved you from dealing with their own problems.

jason

If it's someone trying to "make a name" in your town, they should have one shortly, probably with approximately 4 letters... not a good "career move" IMO. Maybe he's in for "a lesson" too - fate brought them together after all <wink>!

Heh. I promise it wasn't me! I got NOTHING booked. Bummed too. I'm working on custom software for some other clients until I get the $ for some marketing. I have a "may be" client / friend out in Seattle the weekend before TC's potential / former client. Still have to work out details on that one.

Jason

Wow. Bad luck with the brides lately? There was that crazy one you posted about a month or so ago and now this. Must be something in the water around here.

Glad to see they saved you from dealing with their own problems.

jason

Well, that crazy one I posted about was last year actually, but yeah, the past 2 weeks have been interesting.

Oh, and I know you had nothing to do with this couple. My understanding is that they are going with a cheap photographer and skipping the video altogether. No worries, mate. d;-)

I back you 100% on this Travis and thank you for posting the situation. To suggest it's unprofessional to ask collegues their advice on a sticky position when the customer SIGNED a contract and now wants to back out of their word is absurd. If people want to point out the injustice, it's the customer in this case and just because other people have problems, bigger & smaller, is completely irrellevant to your situation and doesn't make you being wronged any better. Why won't people hold anybody accountable for their actions anymore??!?!

Frankly, I hope the bride and groom find this forum. You never mentioned a name (which was good, that *would* have crossed the line). If they know you are talking about them, they should see that you have support amongst your peers and that YOU are in fact a reasonable person and THEY are in the wrong.

Jon

Travis,

Just to add my 2 cents...

I require a 50% retainer fee at the time of booking. It's non-refundable, and if they "change their minds" or cancel my services for any reason, I still get paid something for the day, as opposed to getting nothing. The balance is payable before I pull my cameras out on the wedding day. For my clients, this gives them weeks or even months to pay the balance as their budget permits, in amounts that they can afford.

Mark

Frankly, I hope the bride and groom find this forum. You never mentioned a name (which was good, that *would* have crossed the line). If they know you are talking about them, they should see that you have support amongst your peers and that YOU are in fact a reasonable person and THEY are in the wrong.

Jon

Well you centantly do seem to have support from fellow wedding videographers. I guess I am alone in my opinion. I come from a commercial broadcast background and really have no experience with 'Bridzilla'. The part where you were hoping that the brides wedding was rained out just bugged me.

I am still confused about the retainer you received. You kept that right? So you walk away with a little change, you avoid dealing with someone you feel is unreasonable and I hope you both live 'Happily Ever After'.

Travis,

Just to add my 2 cents...

I require a 50% retainer fee at the time of booking. It's non-refundable, and if they "change their minds" or cancel my services for any reason, I still get paid something for the day, as opposed to getting nothing. The balance is payable before I pull my cameras out on the wedding day. For my clients, this gives them weeks or even months to pay the balance as their budget permits, in amounts that they can afford.

Mark

I tend to doubt I could get away with a 50% retainer, but my retainer is large enough that people won't walk away from it without a really good reason. That's also why I charge an additional fee 30 days before the wedding, it's just that this couple backed out 31 days before. How long have you been using the 50% retainer?

Well you centantly do seem to have support from fellow wedding videographers. I guess I am alone in my opinion. I come from a commercial broadcast background and really have no experience with 'Bridzilla'. The part where you were hoping that the brides wedding was rained out just bugged me.

I am still confused about the retainer you received. You kept that right? So you walk away with a little change, you avoid dealing with someone you feel is unreasonable and I hope you both live 'Happily Ever After'.

Apologies about the "rain" comment. That was for humor's sake. I don't really wish that for them. I'm not that kind of person. However, if it did rain that day, I wouldn't necessarily feel bad either.

And yes, I kept the retainer. It's nice to have that and not have to deal with someone unreasonable, but at the same time it's a substantial loss of income as well. Tough situation.