Hi there,

I recently bought a n XL2, as my XL1s died.
But something seems to be different during capturing.
With the XL1s I just connected the cam by firewire to the computer,
and all 4 audio channels were captured.
Not with the XL2. I followed a reporter for a day,
using a mic, connected to the XLR.
Camera-mic was off. But now I try to edit the whole thing,
but I don't get any audio at all!
What's different on the XL2, that makes this difference?
What do I do to capture the audio aswell?

Thijo from the Low-lands

PS The camera is during capturing on VCR,
audio selected Mix Ch1/2 - Ch3/4
Whe I plug in my headphone, I can hear the audio very well.
So there is only 1 channel audio. Mono-mic on the left XLR, Ch1/3
No MA 300 was used.

What NLE are you capturing in? Are you sure that you have audio selected in your capture settings?

Just a thought.

NLE? What's that? Does it mean the software I'm using?
That's a program you might not know in the US, I don't know.
It's called Magix Video de Luxe 2007 Plus

NLE stands for Non Linear Editing system, and yes it could basically be interpreted as editing software. I have not heard of Magix Video, but I know in Final Cut Pro you have to make sure that audio is marked for capture in the capture settings. The only reason I asked was because that is usually the problem when my audio doesn't capture.

I am about to throw everything out of the window, and take fisshing for a hobby!
The Canon-helpdesk told me to use their own capturing software, called DV-PC Recorder.
That only allows me to capture video ón the tape ánd the harddisk at the same time.
Meaning: I have to stay connected by firewire, so I can only film the church in front of my house!
I can not find a function to capture fróm the tape to the harddisk.
I also tried other camera's to capture, same result.
Windows Movie Maker does not capture it either.
Helpdesk also told me to connect the s-video cable ánd the
composite audio cables.
Also does not work. Sofar.
Camera settings for capturing, wrong editing software, I'm done. Almost.
WHO CAN HELP ME OUT, PLEASE?

Thijo

The problem is not with the camera. It is with your NLE (or your editing software application). I have never heard of the one you are using but in order for it to be able to capture audio on your ch 3 / 4 channels, you will need to be able to set that up in the preferences for your application. Having your XL2 set to Mix 1/2 & 3/4 won't make a difference during capture to your computer. Those types of settings in the camera are only set for recording the separate audio channels while you are actually video taping the content onto your miniDV tape. At that point, the audio is already laid down, and you don't even need to extract it using a multi-channel camera to capture from. Any standard miniDV camera or deck will do fine, so don't worry about the cam settings at this time, other than setting it to VCR mode (which you have done.)

As far as the application, if you are using a consumer level editing application, such as iMovie, Windows Movie Maker, or a few others, it is unlikely that you will be able to set audio capture preference settings. However if you are using a more full-featured application, you will need to go to the audio capture preference settings and set them to your needs -

the default will be CH 1/2. You can also set them to CH 3/4, or as a full 1,2,3,4 mix for your capture.

If you editing application doesn't allow for this, you might be able to do it using Scenealyzer (sp?) if you are on a PC.

Or you may be able to do it using Quicktime Pro 7, in which case you may need to record to a QT movie file (even though it is just for audio) and then export your .mov file as a 48Khz aiff file.

Hope this helps. I just wanted to set you on the right track by looking at your software instead of the camera.

-Jon

So it's the application.
This is what I've been thinking. But:
Why did the previous camera, the XL1s
pass all Channels, with the same editing program?
I've used the external mic on that one too,
and al of that was captured very well by my software!

Thijo

But:
Why did the previous camera, the XL1s
pass all Channels, with the same editing program?


Thijo

That I cannot say as I have not used the XL1S and don't know specifically what the proper settings entail. The only thing I might imagine is that either the settings for the app were at one point correctly set to capture the separate channels, or perhaps all the channels were recorded through the camera as a mixed 2track stereo that would end up being seen as such by the application in its default setting anyhow - in other words, perhaps 1 & 3 were recorded together on the left, and 2&4 were recorded together on the right - but I don't even know if that is possible with that cam so I'm just guessing.

-Jon

So yoday I tried to capture this tape on another computer.
That also did not work.
I try to find other Dutch XL2-users on the Dutch forum,
but they all seem to be on holiday.
Or they don't feel like helping me for some reason.
I got the DVPC application the helpdesk told me to use,
but that keeps saying: Switch the cam to a recording-mode.
I realy can't find how to get it working for capturing from the tape.
This has been using a week of my time now, just to get this one tape captured.
And I wanna use it so much.
People have been asking about it so many times now.
Have to give them NO for an anwer each time...

Thijo

I just realized that you noted in post #6 you mentioned trying to capture into your computer using other cameras as well, and that none of them worked. You likewise tried capturing into Windows Movie Maker, also without success. It seems likely that your firewire cable is bad or perhaps your firewire port may be bad.

Have you tried a different cable?


-Jon

Yes, I tried 2 cables here, and another one in the studio today.
I don't think it's that, on the rest of the tape is a recording I made with only the Camera mic on, and that is easy to capture. Als would not work if it was the cable or the port, in my opinion.

Thijo

When you listen to the tape in the XL2 using a set of headphones, and you press the 'audio monitor' button to monitor only ch 3/4, are you able to hear your wireless mic track completely independent of the audio you recorded via the front mic?
-Jon

Yes, I can.
Also in the mix 1/2 3/4

Thijo

Were you able to set your preferences in your Magix application to specify capture from ch 3/4?
-Jon

Nope. Not that I could find.
But I've downloaded a trial of Premiere Pro, and could not find it there either.
But I suppose that's simply because I could not find it yet, as I just have it.

Nope. Not that I could find.


I can almost guarantee that this is the source of your problem. Unless you can specify audio capture from ch 3/4, your NLE simply won't hear it, and it won't be included in the capture. It is possible that your Magix software doesn't have this capability, and I am pretty sure Windows Movie Maker doesn't either (as I noted in post #7).

I don't have Premiere Pro, but I am almost positive that it does have this capability. Without knowing exactly where to find such preference settings, I am only guessing that you will have to select it by setting up your capture settings - which is where I think your ch 3/4 audio capture option is probably located.

Typically, when trying to capture 3 or 4 tracks of audio, it seems most folks have to run a 2nd pass during capture. Run the first capture using the default ch 1/2, and then switch the audio settings for ch 3/4 and run a second pass of capture (or just capture audio only) and you will end up with a dedicated 3/4 audio track with matching timecode info to sync up with your first pass, but you still have channel separation to make any necessary changes to sound levels and filters on an individual track basis without affecting the other tracks.

You had suggested that you had no problems before when capturing XLR mic inputs from your older XL1s, but since that model required add-ons for XLR input, (MA-100 or the MA-200 or even a Beachtec, I think), I am suspecting that you were simply live mixing your inputs straight into ch 1/2, as opposed to 3 or 4 dedicated tracks - in which case it would have captured ch 1/2 just fine since that is the default. (I'm only guessing with that since I haven't used the XL1s.

The XL2 may operate different from that however since the XLR inputs are integrated permanantly into the workings of the camera, and will require the XLR source content to be sent to dedicated tracks, in which case, if you are also using the stock mic set to ch 1/2, then certainly you will need to set the capture settings noted above in order to capture the audio from ch 3/4.

Final note: As I also noted in post #7, you can also simply do this using Quicktime 7 Pro. If you don't already have it, it is only $29 and is cheaper than buying a full new NLE application. By setting the preferences in QT 7 Pro to record ch 3/4 of your camera's audio, and making a new audio recording, you will have an audio only QT .mov file that you can then export as a 48Khz file that you can then manually drop into your Magix app and manually sync it up.

That's a bit of a hassle and a pain, I know, but it works in a pinch.

-Jon

I have kept you real busy, haven't I? Sorry for that.
I do however appreciate (is that how you write the word?)
all you work sofar! Thanks for using so much of your time.
The idea of using QT is worth trying.
And otherwise I have to buy serious deiting-stuff like Premiere, Vegas, or something else.
I got stuck on my Magix, as that's the only well working editing program in Dutch available.
There is another one, but I don't want that, very unstable.
So Jonathan, thanks a lot, and you will here from me when it all works.
It will be a fantastic day, I can tell you!
Of course not only Jonathan, but also everybody else who contibuted in this thread: Thanks!

Thijo

Your welcome. I really hope it works out for you. I know how frustrating it can be to try to get something to work with with video editing, and its so hard to find that one little crucial element that is hanging everything up. Its a real pain.


Good luck.
-Jon

Hi,
I would say that you should not record on 4 channels.
If you are using the original mic that will be a problem if you also what a extra mic in XLR connection. I don’t know how the NTSC version of XL2 is set up, but the PAL version is recording the original mic on channel 1 and 2 and need to be set on “front mic”. If you are then connection an extra mic in a XLR port, than you need to choose ch 1/3 or 2/4. This is the problem. The front mic is recording on 1 and 2 and the new mic will be recorded on 1 or 2 (+3 or 4 if you are using 12 bit sound). That means that the new mic will record on the same channel as the front mic. If I’m using 2 mics I need to connect both in XLR and than choose if I need stereo or mono recording. If I need 16 bit sound than the recording need to be on channel 1 and 2, but if you choose 12 bit sound you can record mic 1 on channel 1 and 3 and mic 2 on channels 2 and 4 (but I would not use 12 bit). In you NLE you then need to split the sound in to 2 separated channels (or pan the sound to left or right and then duplicate the channel). Then come the tricky part, I’m not sure IF I can explain it right. Now you need to make the sound channel that is on left to also come out of you right speaker. In Premiere Pro it’s an audio effect that makes the left duplicate to right (and same for the right channel). Now you got 2 audio channels with left and right sound.
I’m not sure I explained it right… but in some way that how I do it with to mics on a PAL XL2.

(in Premiere Pro, it’s not possible to capture 4 channels sound)

Hi Markus, for the purpose of not trying to add more confusion to this thread, I have to make a few points in questioning the accuracy of your statements:

Hi,
This is the problem. The front mic is recording on 1 and 2 and the new mic will be recorded on 1 or 2 (+3 or 4 if you are using 12 bit sound). That means that the new mic will record on the same channel as the front mic.

No.


I'm not holding it in my hands with an extra mic to test this, but I am almost certain that your statement is inaccurate.

First off, I think it was covered earlier that the original poster was indeed trying to use the stock mic, along with an additional mic accessing channel 3 via the rear XLR. To do this, than most certainly he was using the 4ch/12bit setting. This being the case, the mic designations are actually assigned via the audio settings panel on the rear left side of the camera. The front mic is only accessible via Audio 1 and sends the stereo front mic signal to ch 1 & 2 (stereo). While it is set there in Audio 1, you cannot additionally set the switch to also send the rear XLR signal to tracks 1 & 2. Certainly you can send the XLR signal to ch 1 & 2 quite easily, but you are shutting off the front mic in order to do so. It is one or the other, but not both as they are completely different settings on the input switch.

Since the poster was using the front mic active in Audio 1, then the rear XLR input would have to have been coming in via Audio 2. There is no front mic setting for Audio 2, so there is no mixing of the input signals down to ch 1 & 2 using both the stock mic and the rear XLR input. Not gonna happen.

And I am pretty certain this pertains to both the PAL and the NTSC versions.


(in Premiere Pro, it’s not possible to capture 4 channels sound)

That is usually the case, which is why it is common practice to run a 2nd pass for capturing the ch 3/4 audio tracks.

-Jon

Self Correction:
I re-read the original post to remember that the original poster didn't record any content using the front stock mic as he had it disabled during the recording. However, by my questioning him in later posts it became evident that he was still using the 12/bit 4/ch settings to record the sound by virtue of the fact that he indicated he could monitor the the audio from track 3 using the 'audio monitor' button in ch 3/4 mode, whereby it is clear that the recording was not made to ch 1/2, but only to ch 3. The problem is not that there is no audio, but rather that he has not been able to get his NLE to capture the audio that is sitting on ch 3. This is generally becuase to do so requires changing the capture settings in the NLE, if the NLE in question has such capability at all. The cheaper consumer grade NLE apps likely do not, but the full-featured pro-level apps do, however finding those preference settings and setting them correctly is different for every app.

-Jon

Jonathan, You wrote earlier:
"Final note: As I also noted in post #7, you can also simply do this using Quicktime 7 Pro. If you don't already have it, it is only $29 and is cheaper than buying a full new NLE application. By setting the preferences in QT 7 Pro to record ch 3/4 of your camera's audio, and making a new audio recording, you will have an audio only QT .mov file that you can then export as a 48Khz file that you can then manually drop into your Magix app and manually sync it up."

Now I have QTPro, and it tells me capturing video and audio only works on a Mac OS.
That's what it says on the Dutch support site anyway...

Thijo

Hi Jonathan,
I’m sorry if my statement sounded weird. I probable meant what you wrote. When you got the stock mic it is recording on Audio 1 and that one need to be set on “front mic” The audio is now recording on channel 1 and 2. If you connect one more mic in you rear XLR left port it would record on channel 1 (and 3 if you are using 12 bit) if the setting would be change to “Rear”. If you change setting to 12 bit and connect a mic in XLR left and set Audio 2 to “Rear” than the sound should be recorded on ch 3.

This is probable what I meant this morning when I wrote the first post. When I now read it I miss to write down that this I hopefully got down on the top text. Sorry if I was confusing… I got a hell of a problem to sort out the sound input on the XL2 the first time I got it… and I no pro on that now either.
But now I thing I’m correct.

Now I have QTPro, and it tells me capturing video and audio only works on a Mac OS.
That's what it says on the Dutch support site anyway...

Thijo

Okay, so now I feel completely lousy about that. I had been informed that QTpro works with identical functionality for both Macs and PCs. I don't have a working PC right now to try that, but I assumed it was true. Only now it seems I caused you to waste $29. I am really sorry about that.

So now, other than the ability to generate custom exports, I am wondering why Apple is charging the same amount for the Windows version of QTpro when its functionality is severely limited against the Mac version. That's a lousy move on Apple's part (IMO)

-Jon

I have found a solution.
Maybe not the best one, but it's working.
I'm capturing the audio on Ch 3 now analog.
A bit more work, sync manually, no scene detection,
but at least I can hear my reporter now!
And Jonathan, the next time we meet you return me the $29.
We only live about 5000 miles apart, so we might be running in to eachother in the mall next week or so....

Don't worry, be happy!

Thijo

And Jonathan, the next time we meet you return me the $29.
We only live about 5000 miles apart, so we might be running in to eachother in the mall next week or so....

Don't worry, be happy!

Thijo

I promise, when we meet, I'm good for the $29. I owe you for steering you wrong.

I am glad you found a solution that worked for this project, and I'm sorry the whole ordeal has been such a hassle.

Hopefully, your move into the realm of Premiere Pro will make things a little smoother.

If ever in a similar situation, just keep your cam settings on the standard 16bit 2channel setting, plug your XLR input into the left XLR port, set your audio panel settings under Audio 1 to 'rear' and then switch on the 1>2 setting, which will duplicate your left signal to the right so you don't have to center it in post. It should capture at your NLE's default capture settings (even in Magix) and you're good to go.

Have fun, and once again, my apologies for the $29.

Best regards,
-Jon

May I share my experience with you. PPro does captuer all 4 channels on one capture. There is no need to capture twice. A free software scenalyzer will also capture all 4 cahnnels. Cahnnel 1 and 2 are embedded in the AVI and 3 and 4 are written to a separate wave file. You need to set this up in the options panel to allow 4 channel capture.
The free scenalyzer version is still available on the german website here

http://www.scenalyzer.com/d/download.html

click on the "hier" link

Um die alte Freeware-Version von Scenalyzer herunterzuladen klicken sie bitte hier.

It works, trust me I do it all the time



Um die alte Freeware-Version von Scenalyzer herunterzuladen klicken sie bitte hier.

I am very sorry I respond so late, Steve.
I have been doing other things lately,
rebuilding the house.
So I did not have the time to sit behind the computer and read your message.
But I have now. I will try that. Thanks for the help.

Thijo