My HV20, which has performed flawlessly, started showing an alarming red vertical line that rendered all footage useless. It happened as I was shooting - no reason, out of the blue.

I am feeling that, while it's under warrenty, even if it fixes itself, that I should have this unit replaced - I can't have this happen again on an important shoot.

Thoughts?

Please save to disk (76MB QT File):
http://hv20.teack.net/movies/HV20_Red_Vertical_Line_Problem_H264.mov

Use your warranty and get a replacement. You have a dead sensor it seems (or, part of it).

It comes and goes now, but yeah, I'd say it's on it's way out.

A red vertical line? I've never heard of anything like that. I'm guessing it's either an "in camera special effect" or you have a problem and this is what it is.

It's a problem with how the chips are processing the colors, I would have to say the blue and green color records on that line are not being read and only picking up the red color record. If you where to set the camera to only shoot footage in black and white then you can just replace the camera but if still under warrenty, then that means that you have a defective product which is your camera and you should send it back to either be fixed or replaced free of charge.

I've contacted Canon Canada and they're happy to take a look at it.

As one would gather from reading this forum, there are no other reports of problems with the HV20 at this time, so I'm not at all worried. Seems my HV20's problem is an isolated event. It's never been dropped or mishandled, and I've put approx. 15 tapes through it by now, in addition to capturing the 4:2:2 component stream. It's mid-body (near where the sensor is located) gets warm after it's been on standby for a while, but I assume that's normal. I'll be happy to get it back, or replacement - the HV20 is a fantastic camera.

Shipping it soon to Vancouver to be looked at - Ill post updates when I receive more information.

What am I to do?

My HV20 was returned to me yesterday – new main circuit board apparently; the CMOS chip was not replaced. It took seven weeks – nearly TWO MONTHS for Canon to view, repair and return my HV20. Two months during the best months of the year for my shooting, for Canon to fix a brand new camera that, in my opinion, should have been replaced flat out due to the nature of it’s problem and how new the unit was and how it wasn’t mistreated.

To make matters far worse, I shot footage with it yesterday – and the problem is still there.. there is a vertical black line ruining my footage. It’s in a different area – left side of the image rather than the right, but it’s evident.

I’m worried…

If I return it to be ‘repaired’ again, chances are it’ll be gone another two months.. that’s four months total of use that I’d be paying for with lost warranty time (and evidently, my unit NEEDS its warranty)!

That’s 1/3 of a year without my camera! Unacceptable, even if I was a consumer rather than a prosumer user, that’s unfair…I absolutely need Canon to replace my unit with a fresh one, and quickly. I have the biggest shoot of my life coming up, and this is little wonder is the star.. 24P, 35mm lenses, HD-SDI 4:2:2 capture.. it’s more than a minor component of the system. And no, I don’t have the budget to go and buy another one – and I don’t believe I should be required to.

What are my options?

EDIT: What are my options in dealing with Canon? I need them to flat-out replace the unit at this point.

What are my options?
Have you pursued this to the fullest extent possible with the company that sold it to you? I'm sure they want you to handle it as you are, with Canon, but there is a chance they might be willing to do something... maybe lend you a demo unit? Have you searched for a rental?

Robert, you need to call their Customer Service department (same place where you first shipped it for repair) and make a complaint that it's still not fixed... make absolutely sure that you include a tape which proves your claim. Don't settle for anything less than a replacement. Let us know how it goes please,

To start, I was using my friend's account, Robert Ducon's, way more than he was until I've finally just got my own account recently. This HV20 sensor problem has always been with my camera, and now I have my own account, so I'll continue on here.

Robert, you need to call their Customer Service department (same place where you first shipped it for repair) and make a complaint that it's still not fixed... make absolutely sure that you include a tape which proves your claim. Don't settle for anything less than a replacement. Let us know how it goes please,

Chris, I've asked to speak to a supervisor, but the support personnel won't pass me through, despite patiently, sufficiently explaining the situation and experience and theory of the problem.

I absolutely agree – this should have been dealt with early on as a replacement, and at this stage, with the amount of inconvenience it’s caused me, a very strong Canon HV20 supporter, I think it’s fair and reasonable that a swap for a new unit (with a new warranty) occurs.

I spoke again with Canon last week, and they asked me to send in an e-mail with pictures of the problem. However, I * already * sent in an HDV tape with a very clear illustration of the problem when I originally sent the camera back! This is going in circles.

To make matters worse, they took very near two months to ‘service’ my HV20 – I had been quoted 15 business days when I sent it away – and returned it with it still exhibiting the exact same problem, to the pixel.

I scrambled at the 11th hour, to find a loaner to shoot my production which was to roll in a week. I’m a student, starting an entrepreneurial promotion business, and I had just enough cash to get it done. The HV20 was an integral part of the process a) it was my only camera b) a great camera for the money, and allowed me to invest in a Cinevate Brevis 35mm adapter and HD-capture card. The shoot was a success, and as far as I know, the only production shot with an HV20 capturing RAW 4:2:2 digital HD into a Mac Pro on a set with a Cinevate Brevis 35mm adapter:

http://chrisruffell.com/hv20/FMW_HD_Frame_01.jpg
http://chrisruffell.com/hv20/FMW_HD_Frame_03.jpg
http://chrisruffell.com/hv20/FMW_HD_Frame_04.jpg
http://chrisruffell.com/hv20/FMW_HD_Frame_06.jpg
http://chrisruffell.com/hv20/FMW_HD_Frame_11.jpg

I directed, D.O.P’d, produced and edited this, all without my core camera functioning, and with the limited resources I had, was lucky to get a replacement!

I wrote a letter to Canon, as per a customer service person’s request for images showing proof of the problem:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Dear Canon,

This email is a follow-up to a conversation I had by phone with Canon technical support last week, February 21, 2008.

My 'Canon HV20 A' is defective due to a manufacturer defect and I believe unit replacement is a fair request. I purchased it on March 30th, of 2007. Already in for a lengthy repair at Canon Calgary, the problem was not solved by any means. As I’ve stated in two conversations with technical phone support, I suspect that the imager system is defective, but whatever the nature of the problem is, the camera has become unusable for my profession.

The problem is best described as vertical banding, a red/black line appearing intermittently on footage. It appears on all images produced by the camera: HDV recording, live out-put via HDMI/Component/Composite to a uncompressed HD capture card, and in-camera still image recording.

My HV20 was sent by Canon dealers 'Victoria Camera Traders' to Canon Calgary on July 13, 2007, for repair after only 3 months of ownership. When it was returned to me from Canon Canada on August 23, 2007 - a seven week repair time - the problem was still present despite a 'replaced main circuit board and reprogram' as per the invoice. I sent an HDV tape with the camera to Canon to demonstrate recorded examples of the problem, so the issue has been well documented. I turned on the camera the next day, and the problem was clearly there, at the same intensity and location on the image as it has been.

Before the problem, I had been very impressed with the quality of the image and the amount of features available with the camera. I have touted the HV20's abilities to individuals and non-profit societies in the Victoria BC region for the past year, and to filmmaking communities over the internet. I know that I have at least helped to influence purchases of the HV20 to at least 5 individuals within my filmmaking circle in Victoria. Lens and Shutter Victoria, Victoria Camera Service, and users of the website DVInfo.com, are all aware of this situation.

Despite being an ardent supporter of Canon and the HV20, I have been unfairly inconvenienced by the inability to use a product that I paid $1500 for at the time of sale. Nearly two months of my warranty/and use of the camera are written off, as the camera wasn't repaired when it was out of my hands for the 2 months of 'repair', and since the date of return, I have been unable to use the unit. It has proven unreliable and defective and the footage is unusable with the professional results that are integral to my line of work. In order to meet deadlines I've had to borrow another HV20 to keep up with paying committments. In short, I have only had the use of this camera for approximately two months since I purchased it, April 2007 and June 2007. Beginning July 5th, 2007, the camera became unusable.

It would be unreasonable for me to wait for another repair, especially if the outcome is the same: a near two months and no fix. If this happened, the camera would be returned outside of the warranty window and could result in an untreated unit. This would be unacceptable.

Again, I am a supporter of Canon, but I expect this matter to be closed satisfactorily and in a fair manner with a new unit.

Sincerely,

- Christopher Ruffell

I have included various still images taken with the camera's still function, as well as links to video downloads that soundly illustrate the problem.

Original Full Size Still Images:
http://chrisruffell.com/hv20/IMG_0289.JPG
http://chrisruffell.com/hv20/IMG_0306.JPG
http://chrisruffell.com/hv20/IMG_0307.JPG
http://chrisruffell.com/hv20/IMG_0308.JPG

1280x720 Video Clip (76MB, 1:16 seconds)
http://chrisruffell.com/hv20/HV20_Red_Vertical_Line_Problem_H264.mov

*HDMI Uncompressed Captured 1920x1080 60i Apple Prores 422 HQ Clip (275 MB, 0:07 seconds)
http://chrisruffell.com/hv20/HV20_422_ProRes_Uncompressed_1920x1080.mov



*NOTE: This was *not* a played back recording from an HDV tape: The uncompressed clip was a LIVE data stream captured from the HDMI port to a clean HDMI-to-HD-SDI convertor to a professional Decklink HD Extreme uncompressed video capture card - this is as close to a near to a fully digital, loss-less, uncompressed HV20 signal as one can imagine and is primarily intended for use with professional-grade cameras such as the XH-G1, Sony XDCAM/Cinealtas and the Panasonic Varicams.

I really feel bad for you. This should never had occurred nor should the extended length of time to repair the camera .


Take the camera back to where you purchased the HV-20. The retailer should contact his/her CANON sales representative. The sales rep. then can get you a new camera and assign an RMA via the REP. ACCOUNT. That is how it is done here in my area of the U.S. You should not have even been advised to send a NEW camera in for a repair. The retailer should have used the above procedure. I know this as a fact.

Best of luck to you. I wish you the best.

I say give the man TWO HV30's!!

I cannot imagine why they failed to fix your camera, and really they should have swapped it out with such major issues - Don't know if Canada has the equivalent of lemon laws, but I should think you've got a fine case of lemonade...

I really feel bad for you. This should never had occurred nor should the extended length of time to repair the camera .

Take the camera back to where you purchased the HV-20. The retailer should contact his/her CANON sales representative. The sales rep. then can get you a new camera and assign an RMA via the REP. ACCOUNT. That is how it is done here in my area of the U.S. You should not have even been advised to send a NEW camera in for a repair. The retailer should have used the above procedure. I know this as a fact.

Lou, Dave, thanks so much. I've spoken to sales persons at London Drugs where the HV20 is also sold, and they too said the camera would have to be sent to Canon as it is part of their service agreement to not replace defective units.

I just got an e-mail back from Canon about no more than half an hour ago:
--------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Valued Customer

Thank you for your E-mail inquiry regarding your HV20.

We have successfully received your images and video Mr. Ruffell. Upon inspection we do see the problem you have noted in your e-mail. We also feel this is a malfunction with the camcorder unit. As such, I recommend that your product be forwarded to an Canon Canada Factory Facility for inspection and review. Please include your name, address, daytime telephone number, copy of your bill of sale and a brief description of the symptom(s). Including sample images/video on CD/DVD would also assist the service facility. Upon receipt, the Service Facility will advise you accordingly.

Please note that Canon Canada does not offer return, exchange or refund services. Products that are found to be malfunctioning are serviced and repaired to factory specification. If you have questions about your warranty please review the terms and conditions as outlined on your warranty card.

Please find below, the name, address and telephone number of your nearest facility for your reference.

CANON CANADA INC.
2828 16 ST NE
CALGARY, AB, T2E7K7
Tel.: 403/219-5939

Should you require further assistance, please feel free to email us or visit our customer support website at http://www.canon.ca







Sincerely,



James D.

Technical Support Representative

Customer Information Centre

Canon Canada Inc.



----------------------------------------------------

We have successfully received your images and video Mr. Ruffell. Upon inspection we do see the problem you have noted in your e-mail. We also feel this is a malfunction with the camcorder unit. As such, I recommend that your product be forwarded to an Canon Canada Factory Facility for inspection and review. Please include your name, address, daytime telephone number, copy of your bill of sale and a brief description of the symptom(s). Including sample images/video on CD/DVD would also assist the service facility. Upon receipt, the Service Facility will advise you accordingly.

Please note that Canon Canada does not offer return, exchange or refund services. Products that are found to be malfunctioning are serviced and repaired to factory specification. If you have questions about your warranty please review the terms and conditions as outlined on your warranty card.

Should you require further assistance, please feel free to email us or visit our customer support website at http://www.canon.ca

----------------------------------------------------

Canon acknowledge the problem as a malfunction of the camera, but then require you to contact a different department with a description of the problem and samples on CD/DVD? Are they kidding? All this after sending it to a Canon repair facility - for repair - to begin with??? And they've already breached their contract by failing to repair the camera to factory specs as required.

FWIW, Canon Canada warranty states "Defective parts will be exchanged for new parts or, at Canon Canada's option, comparable rebuilt parts for a period of ONE YEAR from the date of original purchase, except for a defective Video Head, which will be exchanged for a period of three months from the date of purchase.

So, yes, they do offer "exchange" service, as per the warranty.

Case closed - the camera is defective - replace with a new camera or, at Canon Canada's option, comparable rebuilt camera. With what you've had to go through, they really should replace with a brand new camera and stop screwing around.

If they have a toll free number I'd ratchet up the pressure a notch (e-mail can be rather easy to use to blow off a serious problem). Let them know you've stated your "customer service experience" in a forum frequented by professionals, and that the consensus is that they tried to fix it, took too darn long, and didn't FIX a thing, and that they should seriously consider replacing the camera ASAP and send you a fruit basket in apology!

For the small amount it would cost them to make you a satisfied customer, their position is inexcusable!

You might also see if there's a "president of Canon Canada" and call directly - that usually gets results if you can sleuth out the contact info.

Christopher, as Dave suggested...call them... I have had some recent issues with Canon myself that were remedied...but only because I was persistent in calling. I even got the same rep on the phone more than once. Good luck.

Paul, Dave, Ian, thank you.

I agree - it shouldn't take much on their behalf to fix this. I'm seeking fair treatment, and as you've all suggested, I've gone beyond what I should have to.

I've called in the recent past, and talked with their customer service via phone and only keep getting referred or past along to the same-level of customer service rep. It goes in cycles, but I'll start persisting with the calls.

In short, I require to talk to someone who can actually make a decision, but I haven't been referred to a supervisor, which I need. Thank you DVInfo members, for support, which I am very grateful for!

I have spoken more times with Canon again to no avail. With a mere two weeks left on the original warranty, I did as the customer support person on the phone suggested and sent the HV20 back along with a DVD containing video and still images and an HDV tape.

Supportive comments on this thread are wonderful, but when I talk to Canon, I'm still one person doing it alone in the end. In reality, it doesn't seem like there was much more I could do than I've done thus far. My complaint wasn't taken anymore seriously than it was originally despite having more proof, a letter, a production that was jeopardized, stress, etc. No one offered to personally look into it; not at the store level, not Canon phone support, not the Canon tech's via e-mail. It’s all been ‘good luck with that’.

I used the HV20 as I would use an XL-H1 – as a professional piece of equipment.

Despite ‘being a professional’, my background didn't make any difference in how I was dealt with, so I assume the average Canon customer is dealt with in this fashion. Perhaps if it was an XL-H1 it would have been looked at differently, but despite the professional orientation of the project I used my Canon product on, there’s nothing to lead me to believe if I owned an XL-H1 I’d be any better off. Imagine two months without your most crucial tool…

In the end, one could say Canon is a business doing business dealing with a customer’s malfunctioning product (a manufacturer’s defect I should add). Canon’s conduct isn’t meant to be personal so I shouldn’t take it personally; I would think it would be called professional conduct. Follow the book. However, I think there's a point where reason and fairness to come into play.

In the very least, the first time it was sent back, I believe I should have been giving an extension on my warranty equal to the time that it took to (mis)repair my purchase. That is more than 100% fair, especially considering the time/money spent to deal with this situation to have the camera sent away, and the warranty time eaten up by the product not being in my hands to use for two months. Also consider it wasn’t fixed, and I’ve had to repeat this process, and now it’s off again.

Canon Canada warranty states "Defective parts will be exchanged for new parts or, at Canon Canada's option, comparable rebuilt parts for a period of ONE YEAR from the date of original purchase...

So, yes, they do offer "exchange" service, as per the warranty.

Sorry but your assumption of exchange service is entirely incorrect -- it clearly states that defective *parts* will be exchanged, not the camera itself. For what it's worth, that's the same policy for all camcorder manufacturers, not just Canon.


I used the HV20 as I would use an XL-H1 – as a professional piece of equipment. But that's not what is it is though. The HV20 is very much a *consumer* camcorder, because the company that manufactures it says so. It doesn't matter how you're using it.

Despite ‘being a professional’, my background didn't make any difference in how I was dealt with, so I assume the average Canon customer is dealt with in this fashion. Perhaps if it was an XL-H1 it would have been looked at differently… Bingo. If it were an XL or XH series camera, that's an entirely different level of service. There's an owner's club with certain benefits, including the provision of loaner cameras (when available) while yours is in service, plus other perks which are not available to owners of consumer camcorders.

Again, how you're using the gear does not matter as much as how the manufacturer defines the gear it makes -- there is a big difference between consumer support and professional support and you have encountered it.

Switch brands if you like, but you'll find the experience similar among all the major camcorder manufacturers. My strong advice to anyone using a consumer camcorder in a business / professional capacity is to make sure that you have at least one more of them on hand when unfortunate circumstances occur, as they are bound to happen (remember Murphy's Law).

Hi Chris. As a reminder, you yourself said:

Don't settle for anything less than a replacement. Let us know how it goes please,

I asked for a replacement, like you suggested after my HV20 was returned not in working order. I discovered through their phone support that this is not an option they offer.

In terms of professional gear, I gather customer-manufacturer relationships will play out as they play out (no one can tell you what your experience will be with a company or purchase) - all anyone can offer is their own personal anecdotal histories as a guide. Everyone will have their own personal experience, and experiences can vary.

All the same, just letting everyone all know how it goes for me - my own personal story. All I wish is for my Canon HV20 to eventually be returned in working order and that no one else has this experience.

All I was saying is that full camera replacement is in no way stipulated by the warranty.

For what it's worth, *I* certainly think they should replace your camera.

I said that then and stick by it now.

Just be aware that some companies consumer equipment warranty only covers consumer use, not professional use, and 4 weeks or more is not uncommon turnaround for consumer gear warranty service.

A significant part of the additional cost of professional equipment is the quality control during manufacture, and the service backing the equipment after sale.

For some consumer gear the maker may send a replacement rather than repairing the gear. They do which ever makes cost sense to them.

Bingo. If it were an XL or XH series camera, that's an entirely different level of service. There's an owner's club with certain benefits, including the provision of loaner cameras (when available) while yours is in service, plus other perks which are not available to owners of consumer camcorders.

As I mentioned earlier I recently had my HV20 repaired but my experience was sort of going backwards. I called the repair shop directly instead of Canon first. Upon sending in my cam and speaking with Canon "after the fact" Canon told me they could have offered me more..including giving me a loaner cam. I experienced something like this with my panasonic GS500 also. The point is Canon does try to accomodate you when your hardware is being repaired...whether consumer or prosumer. But like you mentioned...it would be up to the repaire shop's available supply of loaner cams...... Just thought I'd mention it.....

I suspect Canada and US have "different" ideas of "customer service", and that may be the problem for the OP. Consumer protection laws also vary widely, and sadly it's not uncommon to provide the minimal level of "service" - what sets a company apart is whether they "go the extra" when it's needed.

I agree it's a 1K consumer camera, but that's still a lot of doughnuts... and I don't see Canon arguing that they didn't intend people to buy the HV20 (or a couple of them) as a backup or second angle cam in a pro environment!

I don't know if Canada has "lemon law", but this sure would qualify in the states. Typically the MFR has a reasonable amount of time or attempts to affect a repair, and if they can't, they MUST replace or refund.

It's a pain to push the issue, but sometimes you have to, and I'd look up lemon law and warranty of merchantability (a manufacturer by selling a product effectively is required to warrant that it is suitable and will work as advertised and expected). This doesn't mean they have to guarantee a consumer product will survive in a "professional" environment per se, but it does mean if the camera wouldn't have worked (as in it's not malfunctioning because of abuse and would have malfunctioned in it's expected use) it should be covered.

The principle is simple, you pay your money, you expect the thing to work, and if it doesn't, there are typically legal remedies to protect the consumer from being stuck. What is really a shame here is that "the customer comes first" hasn't applied - that will make me a loyal customer EVERY time, but burn me once, I'll tell everyone I know not to patronize or buy from you. I'd rather spend my money with companies and establishments that make things right than with ones who won't, and I do...

I also had this strange line ruin some great footage. It started off as a hairline on the left side of the frame, barely visible. But as time progressed it became more apparent and I noticed it right after my warranty ran out.

I sent my camera into Canon, knowing they would charge me for the repair but they are unable to tell me what the exact problem is. Now Chris mentions in the middle of the thread that Canon repaired his circuit board first, sending him back his HV20, in the same unusable condition. I have tried to check and make sure the same thing does not happen to me or anybody else with the problem.

Canon says that there are not enough errors to perform a mass recall on those sensors (which I fear it may be). I am curious as to how many users on here or anywhere for that matter are or have experienced this problem...

To give credit where credit is due, Canon has since taken back and repaired my camera within a reasonable two-three period. They replaced the CMOS sensor on the original camera, as I had predicted, which was the culprit. I sent a very detailed TV DVD with example videos and stills illustrating the problems.

Since I use it for production, the camera has since been run through it's paces on set and has proven it's running 100% as it should.

An inconvenient series of events, indeed. The timing was poor, especially for an early adopter with a new product that 'failed' so very early in it's life. It could have been handled different, even if it was handled the standard Canon way. Eventually, it's been fixed, and I'm back to trusting it and using it in my workflow - video production. It is really an incredible camera, and when I do move to solid-state, I fully intend to keep it around as B camera for a long time to come - especially since I have no plans yet to move to solid state. ;)

Aside from Vincent, i've not heard of any other cases of this problem, at all. I've scoured the net and spoken to Canon and Canon resellers, and no one has seen anything similar. That said, Vincent, how is your situation?

If Canon makes a camera that fits my needs in terms of features and price (value), then I'll buy from them again. My main real complaint is lack of the human factor presented from Canon; I never once was put through to someone who could make decisions, so no one person I was ever in contact with took responsibility or offered solutions that could have made a difference. Also, I never saw any indication that if I was an owner of an XH-G1 that I would have been treated differently, so I'm a bit more cautious when it comes to even trusting my own equipment when it comes to production. Buyer beware, sure, but there was no real alternate course of action other than buying two units from the get go to have a backup for my shoot-date, and having a rental unit prepped, just in case either of those fell through.

If anything further happens, I'll be certain to update this thread, and if anyone has heard of similar cases, please let us know, thank you.

Well... I received my HV20 back from Canon in time to work on a large project. Upon receiving the camera I tested it in the same fashion which I used to really determine the problem and it was gone. The invoice said they replaced the "ccd device"(even though it uses a CMOS).

I shot for a little over two months. However I recently noticed that the camera appears to be acting up again. The hairline vertical line is starting to rear it's ugly thin head again. I will be conducting more low light tests to determine this but I am almost certain that the same problem is returning...

Chris R. after having your camera "fixed" has the problem totally vanished? HAs anyone noticed this on their HV20/30?

Well... I received my HV20 back from Canon in time to work on a large project. Upon receiving the camera I tested it in the same fashion which I used to really determine the problem and it was gone. The invoice said they replaced the "ccd device"(even though it uses a CMOS).

I shot for a little over two months. However I recently noticed that the camera appears to be acting up again. The hairline vertical line is starting to rear it's ugly thin head again. I will be conducting more low light tests to determine this but I am almost certain that the same problem is returning...

Chris R. after having your camera "fixed" has the problem totally vanished? HAs anyone noticed this on their HV20/30?

Yes, my camera has been absolutely flawless since the second (successful) repair.

Vincent, do you have any footage to display this problem? My camera was sent away twice - the first time they replaced what I would call the mother/daugther circuit board (despite me suggesting that it was the sensor), and the second time, they replaced the sensor - which fixed it. I've shot a lot more footage with it since - it's been 'on' probably between 20+ hours since, so I'm very confident that it's been properly fixed.

I'm sorry to hear that yours is acting up again; my suggestion, include video footage on a DVD and send it back again - there's a 3-month warranty regarding any repairs (at leastat Canon Canada). Let us know what happens.