Hi all,

I may have a job next week which entails shooting over a large area from a helicopter - this will be for, I presume, a regeneration project or building development (have not as yet had the brief).
Aside from by minor fear of flying (somehow developed over the past couple of years) I'm a little unsure over the technical aspects of this project.
Once I'm up (and I'm guessing these helicopter rides ain't cheap) I have to make sure there is very little margin of error...I won't get a second chance on this one.
Once this UK weatherwrong has passed and blue skies are unveiled for the first time this summer (!!) then I should get the call out.

First off I've been asked if there is a way of ensuring the camera is steady i.e. any vibrations from the 'chopper' (and I'd bet there are fairy evident?) may effect impede on the footage...tripod out then? If this is the case the I presume I have to rent out a small steadicam system (yet to shop around...I could actually do with one of these in my itiniary)? Some kind of harness?

When that has been investigated I need to work out what the best format for this type of filming will suit best.
At this stage I'm thinking that 25p (SD) might not work best, due to speed/the 'low temperal' when shooting from a fast moving helicopter?
But I really don't know. I've shot 25p for this client before and it fits in much better than the 50i format (at least in parts). So 50i might also be an option. Other than that I've never really tried SD HDV50, so perhaps that might give a decent look but slightly more stable than SD25p?

I have missed out HDV for these projects purely because they have to be delivered in 4:3 (the video footage will be embedded in after effects/3D visualisation presentations)...although (and I think David Knaggs mentioned this) the client could 'zoom' into HDV footage to fill a 4:3 frame and still have superior footage even though many lines of resolution have been lost.

If anyone out here as carried out such a job I'd really appreciate any tips.

Many thanks...I guess I'll have too much on with the camera to worry about flying in one of those things...mind you, 'celeb's do it all the time right? :)

Cheers.

I'm sure plenty of people will disagree but in my experience the only way to get a decent shot from a helicopter is to use dedicated hardware - specifically a gyro-mounted camera. There are specialist companies for this. The chances are huge that you will be disappointed with the results if you try to do it hand-held or on a tripod out of the window or open door. And then there's the safety factor. As it happens, I've directed quite a bit of filming from helicopters for property developers... Get onto a specialist company. If the client can afford to hire a helicopter, they can afford to pay a bit more for the right camera hardware.

And any professional editor should know very well how to handle basic aspect ratio conversion from 16:9 HD or 16:9 SD (FHA) to straight 4:3. But if the client insist on shooting 4:3 DV, what can you do?

This is an excellent page of discussions on this subject.

http://www.cinematography.net/Pages%20GB/%5Bcml-pro%5D%20filming%20in%20helicopter.htm

To be honest it's slightly scared me off a little. I'm not really sure I'd be happy hanging out of a chopper, the door open and just a safety harness between me and 1000 foot.
Perhaps sat in the seat with the camera cushioned somehow on my shoulder it would ease my concerns a little. I'm grateful I've been asked and I'm sure everything would be professionally run (the discussions on the site above relate to more intense and 'crazy' films shoots) but I'd have to know more about what I'm doing/how I intend to do it.

On a technical note 'overcranking' is mentioned a fair bit.

Yours, (thinking I was a bit hasty in jumping in and agreeing)
Dave!

I'm sure plenty of people will disagree but in my experience the only way to get a decent shot from a helicopter is to use dedicated hardware - specifically a gyro-mounted camera. There are specialist companies for this. The chances are huge that you will be disappointed with the results if you try to do it hand-held or on a tripod out of the window or open door. And then there's the safety factor. As it happens, I've directed quite a bit of filming from helicopters for property developers... Get onto a specialist company. If the client can afford to hire a helicopter, they can afford to pay a bit more for the right camera hardware.

And any professional editor should know very well how to handle basic aspect ratio conversion from 16:9 HD or 16:9 SD (FHA) to straight 4:3. But if the client insist on shooting 4:3 DV, what can you do?

Sorry Michael, I posted before yours was added.
Indeed. Initially quite exciting, but I'd hate to bear the brunt of red mist due to the footage not being so fantastic...and I really don't see myself hanging out of a open doored chopper, I've lost that 'climbing trees and enjoying it' I had as a kid.

Yes - this is ultimately for propery developers. I wouldn't even know of such a specialist company, but honored as I am to be asked surely this might be better in the hands of such a dedicated company?

Thanks.

I've done several shoots hanging out of helicopters with my camera on my shoulder, and the video tends to be a bit jumpy. With the vibration of the helicopter, the wind rushing by and the extreme distance you have to shoot, there's no escaping it. I know you'll mostly shoot wide, but there will be instances when you just have to zoom in for a closer shot, and the vibration really becomes noticable then. Personally, I enjoy the rush of shooting out of open choppers.
I used a gyro mount for a shoot once. I never had set up the mount before, and the chopper arrived without anyone who knew how to set it up. So, I had to do it all myself. The results weren't the best as they could have been.
I do concur with Antony that the best way to shoot really smooth video is to go with a dedicated helicopter platform. Let the client foot the bill, if they want the video that bad.
And you should be able to enlarge HD video to make an acceptable 4:3 DV image.

You're pretty limited in what you can do shooting hand held. Basically, all you can do is shoot using a wide angle lens otherwise you get a lot of vibration.

You can get helicopter mounts which aren't gyro stabilized and these are very good. These have to be fitted by a qualified, CAA (or FAA) licensed person and the mounts are certified. However, you might find that the HD 100 is a bit light for mounts designed for heavier cameras. The gyro stabilized mounts give the best results and are provided by specialist aerial filming companies.

For best results and for safety you need an experienced film pilot. These will clear the flight and be aware of the Aviation laws.

I wouldn't use a Steadicam in a helicopter. Also, you can't mount anything onto the helicopter that hasn't been cleared by the CAA or FAA.

I do concur with Antony that the best way to shoot really smooth video is to go with a dedicated helicopter platform.

As in an 'all in' package - experience pilot and experienced helicopter/plane cameraman?
I too concur. The initial rush has sobered up a little now. Of course, I hate to make up excuses and can't really at this stage afford to turn anything down.
However, I dread to think of the cost of sending up a chopper and for me (unexperienced in this particular field) to go and screw it up...not sure if I'd recover from that!

And you should be able to enlarge HD video to make an acceptable 4:3 DV image.
Having not tried this I wondered if HDV 720p25 zoomed to 4:3 ratio would still look much 'better' than SD 576p25 shot at 4:3.

Cheers Glen.

You can get helicopter mounts which aren't gyro stabilized and these are very good.

I've been searching for the past 30 mins but I'm struggling to find a UK hire place for this...I guess I can cut out the steadicam from my searches now.

I wouldn't use a Steadicam in a helicopter. Also, you can't mount anything onto the helicopter that hasn't been cleared by the CAA or FAA.

Sorry Brian - the helicopter and pilot has to be cleared or that [B[any[/B] type of mount must be cleared before hand?

I've shot handheld zoomed in on very steady ground and it shakes like weak jelly so I can well imagine what the footage would look like in a chopper...hot air balloon would make more sense to me?
Thanks.

All commercial helicopter pilots hold a license - don't let a PPL doing a favour for his mate fly the helicopter.

Any helicopter mounts need to have a certificate and be fitted by a qualified person. Basically, you can't turn up with a camera mount that you've thrown together and bolt it onto a helicopter.

The pilot will clear the flight with the appropriate authorities.

All commercial helicopter pilots hold a license - don't let a PPL doing a favour for his mate fly the helicopter.

Any helicopter mounts need to have a certificate and be fitted by a qualified person. Basically, you can't turn up with a camera mount that you've thrown together and bolt it onto a helicopter.

The pilot will clear the flight with the appropriate authorities.

That's what I suspected.
Basically then, I only really have the option of handholding/shoulder mounting this camera then (if steadicam's are to be disounted - and there's enough horror stories of things flying off/'copter apparatus being knocked etc), never having used a camera mount I'd also leave me open to lack of experience.
So quite possibly may amount to not very good footage considering the cost of these choppers. Perhaps a couple of runs up as an assistant would be hold me in good stead but other than that this is not sounding that wise.
Thanks for your comments.
My general feeling is that I'd be turning work down/saying no to something, which I kind of didn't really want to do.

First off I've been asked if there is a way of ensuring the camera is steady i.e. any vibrations from the 'chopper' (and I'd bet there are fairy evident?) may effect impede on the footage...
To me, this sounds a little suspicious.

I believe there is a possibility that the people asking for the job know more than they are letting on. I think very possibly they've already looked into helicopter shooting and are trying to get something on the cheap.

I think there are more reasons to be concerned than just steady shots.

Are you saying that the real estate people are setting up the shoot and you are going to be called when the weather clears, jump over and get strapped in then get great video (your first time out) that is better than the video from someone setting up their own shoot, with a lot of experience behind them, and charging a lot more money?

I'm very suspicious.

My approach would be to get every last detail about what is needed, how it will be set up, etc. etc. etc. And money talk needs to be part of this from the beginning -- both for the aircraft, the pilot, the equipment and you. I think that if you approach this in a methodical, thorough (and professional) way, the whole thing will fall apart quickly.

I may be wrong, but I think the people are trying to sneak out something for nothing.

On a side note... if I were starting a video shooting business, I would concentrate on what I could do better than others and stay away from anything that... at the best... would be worse quality than is standard fare for the professionals that do that type of shooting.

Finally, to my mind there is no difference between a big feature shoot and and local real estate shoot for the guy hanging out the open door with a camera while the helicopter is on a 60 degree bank in rough air... if that is how it's being shot.

In any case, I'm suspicious of this one.

To me, this sounds a little suspicious.

I believe there is a possibility that the people asking for the job know more than they are letting on. I think very possibly they've already looked into helicopter shooting and are trying to get something on the cheap.

I think there are more reasons to be concerned than just steady shots.

Are you saying that the real estate people are setting up the shoot and you are going to be called when the weather clears, jump over and get strapped in then get great video (your first time out) that is better than the video from someone setting up their own shoot, with a lot of experience behind them, and charging a lot more money?

I'm very suspicious.

My approach would be to get every last detail about what is needed, how it will be set up, etc. etc. etc. And money talk needs to be part of this from the beginning -- both for the aircraft, the pilot, the equipment and you. I think that if you approach this in a methodical, thorough (and professional) way, the whole thing will fall apart quickly.

I may be wrong, but I think the people are trying to sneak out something for nothing.

On a side note... if I were starting a video shooting business, I would concentrate on what I could do better than others and stay away from anything that... at the best... would be worse quality than is standard fare for the professionals that do that type of shooting.

Finally, to my mind there is no difference between a big feature shoot and and local real estate shoot for the guy hanging out the open door with a camera while the helicopter is on a 60 degree bank in rough air... if that is how it's being shot.

In any case, I'm suspicious of this one.

Perfectly succint Jack.
I started this thread for tips and advice on how I might best approach this...but after a few replys and a bit more digging I was driving right up to your exact viewpoint.
The client (who in turn is doing the presentation for the property developers/real estate) has put a lot of work my way and as I was starting out had helped me build experience and confidence...so I feel bad that it's looking likely I'll have to turn this down.
Your last but one point really makes it mark: I intended to approach this business from a more artistic approach (short films etc) and I've really enjoyed the more documentary/commercial style footage (vibrant street scene/city scapes etc) even for the corporate footage, because this has given me a discipline and skillset it might of taken longer for me to acquire (you learn faster with deadlines and sharp demands!)...of course with huge help from these boards.
For example over the past couple of weeks I've shot and edited together (producing final DVD's) a few theatre performances...and I achieved great satisfaction from doing this (again with a new wealth of techniques).

Many thanks.

Anybody that wants something for nothing doesn't have any idea what the hourly rate is for a chopper. I have done a lot of shooting from choppers both handheld and from mounts. Mounts are obviously better, but depending on the job you can get by handheld. If you are shooting real estate then you can probably get by shooting handheld since they probably don't need close ups. If it is a fairly smooth day and you don't zoom in you can get acceptable even good results. Buy a climbing harness some nylon webbing and locking caribeners (sp?). Have the pilot take the rear door on his side of the aircraft off and use a caribener to tie your harness into a seatbelt attachment point. Before you take off have a plan and go over it with the pilot, communications in the air can be difficult even with headsets. In the air try and keep the camera out of the air stream as it can cause vibrations. Fly low and slow don't zoom in and you should get pretty good results. You might even fine it fun.

Good luck.

I've shot many hours from helicopters with an HD100. You can get good results but nothing even comparable with what can be achieved with a proper Wescam or similar system. Last time I asked, it was £1400/hour for standard Helo (fitted with harnesses etc), £1900/hour for Helo, Wescam and operator.

Best way to sell the Wescam is to say it is cheaper, because you can get the shots much faster and not have to keep reshooting with the wrong kit.

If you do have to shoot handheld:

1) Safety first!!!! Be totally secure but able to exit quickly in case of ditching on water etc. An assistant in the helicopter is handy if possible.

2) If you can't get proper mounts (like Tyler mounts), handheld is the only other option. Steadicam is not the right tool! You must isolate the camera from the helo using you body. It is best if you sit up so that only your bum touches the seat as this will allow your body to absorb more movement.

3) Secure the camera to yourself or the helicopter and gaffer on anything detachable like batteries.

4) Make sure the pilot is experienced. The advice given to me was 2000 hours minimum.

5) I use a KS8 gyro when shooting handheld from any moving platform. It isn't perfect for vibration but does help with lower frequency movement (better on boats).

6) Consider hiring a stabilized lens like a Schwem. It won't fit the HD100, so a 2/3" camera would be needed too. A Schem is also a long lens so may not be perfect for what you need.

Buy a climbing harness some nylon webbing and locking caribeners (sp?). Have the pilot take the rear door on his side of the aircraft off and use a caribener to tie your harness into a seatbelt attachment point.
Good luck.

Recently there was a big debate about this issue on CML and it came down to don't use anything that will prevent you from escaping from the helicopter in a hurry after an accident. This included harnesses and taping the seat belts.

Low flying is the most dangerous part, check that there's no risk of a ground strike, downdrafts or visual disorientation. An experienced pilot is a must for low level work.

This is an excellent page of discussions on this subject.

http://www.cinematography.net/Pages%20GB/%5Bcml-pro%5D%20filming%20in%20helicopter.htm

To be honest it's slightly scared me off a little. I'm not really sure I'd be happy hanging out of a chopper, the door open and just a safety harness between me and 1000 foot.
Perhaps sat in the seat with the camera cushioned somehow on my shoulder it would ease my concerns a little. I'm grateful I've been asked and I'm sure everything would be professionally run (the discussions on the site above relate to more intense and 'crazy' films shoots) but I'd have to know more about what I'm doing/how I intend to do it.

On a technical note 'overcranking' is mentioned a fair bit.

Yours, (thinking I was a bit hasty in jumping in and agreeing)
Dave!

David,

There are many different ways to get good aerial footage using planes, helicopters and even remote controlled helicopters or airships. There's pretty much something for every budget level. You don't necessarily need a gyroscopic mount when a bun-gee cord and safety harness will do the trick.

But, the easiest way for you to get great footage is to put a producers hat on and simply hire in the talent. That way you can keep your client happy whilst learning a trick or two.

You need to remember three things; aerial shooting is extremely dangerous, very expensive and if your pilot has combat experience get out of the helicopter, pronto.

Hope that helps,

Liam.

Recently there was a big debate about this issue on CML and it came down to don't use anything that will prevent you from escaping from the helicopter in a hurry after an accident. This included harnesses and taping the seat belts.

Opening a caribener is just as easy as opening a seat belt and I would much rather deal with the unlikely odds of a crash than the very likely odds of falling out of an open door.

Low flying is the most dangerous part, check that there's no risk of a ground strike, downdrafts or visual disorientation. An experienced pilot is a must for low level work.

Your right find a good pilot and then let him worry about flying.

Hi David - perhaps this will help you visualise what those particular settings would look like - various heli clips throughout short promo (it's a proof version, still havn't put up the finished project)

http://www.studioscotland.co.uk/khillpromo.htm

HD101E - 25P - PAL 16:9 - Standard Lens (Wide) Strapped onto a pillow which in turn is strapped to my leg.... the idea is to keep the vibration going through the human body away from the camera (do not hold it tightly).
Use the flip out monitor for general framing.... In these shots (link) I had an assistant in the front of the chopper with an 8" monitor (I watched this)
Heli side door removed (harness on myself).

First clip was taken into Shake to make the scene track smooth.

The settings were chosen for a reason - however I would have prefered to have shot in HDV.

Stu
www.studioscotland.co.uk

If it is a fairly smooth day and you don't zoom in you can get acceptable even good results. Buy a climbing harness some nylon webbing and locking caribeners...

Bowdon - This kind of thing?

http://www.fieldandtrek.com/src/ukwm/category-Harnesses-EQUICLIMHARN.htm

At least there not that pricey.

Mike Marriage
I've shot many hours from helicopters with an HD100. You can get good results but nothing even comparable with what can be achieved with a proper Wescam or similar system. Last time I asked, it was £1400/hour for standard Helo (fitted with harnesses etc), £1900/hour for Helo, Wescam and operator.

Best way to sell the Wescam is to say it is cheaper, because you can get the shots much faster and not have to keep reshooting with the wrong kit.
Steadicam is not the right tool!

Priced up then it doesn't seem that much more expensive to add the kit and operator - and like you say an experienced operator should nail the shot a lot quicker. Not at this stage sure if the helo is a (rich!) friends own chopper. I assume then that a steadicam may not only get in the way of the interior (even controls?) of the helo but would fix on the horizon only, not being able to pointed downwards?

Liam Hall
David,

There are many different ways to get good aerial footage using planes, helicopters and even remote controlled helicopters or airships. There's pretty much something for every budget level. You don't necessarily need a gyroscopic mount when a bun-gee cord and safety harness will do the trick.

But, the easiest way for you to get great footage is to put a producers hat on and simply hire in the talent. That way you can keep your client happy whilst learning a trick or two.

You need to remember three things; aerial shooting is extremely dangerous, very expensive and if your pilot has combat experience get out of the helicopter, pronto.

Hope that helps,

Liam.

Liam - as in...if he's served in the army...don't even think about flying to shoot footage???!!

You don't necessarily need a gyroscopic mount when a bun-gee cord and safety harness will do the trick.

So me strapped in a climbing harness (attached to a the seat belt mechanism's) and the bungee somehow attached to the camera and the chopper? I'm trying to work out how I could 'hang' the camera somehow?
I'm quite liking your suggestion of a producer's hat now!
Ironically if I was on a very tight budget but required this kind of shot I'd probably give it a go (handheld but with mocked up vibration control...) but I can't help thinking that in order to save a few quid this, due to lack of experience and the correct equipment, might end up not all together great for something which I'm sure is going to cost a lot.
I know this will be a fairly difficult shoot as the birds eye 3D visualistions may have already been produced - I'm guessing I would then have to 'reshoot' in video which will then be blended in with the animation...this is hard enough on the ground.

Stewart - that first shot from the copter is suprisingly good considering you'd used just a pillow. What/how did you strap it on with? I suppose the viewfinder and mic can be taken off making the camera less obtrusive?
A final possibility perhaps. Thanks for sharing stu....and thanks to everybody else.

Oh and Matt/Liam/UK folks - just in case it turns out to be a case of getting a pro team in for this, I don't suppose you can recall any of the company's you used/or know of (Manchester/Cheshire reason especially)?
I looked at Tyler mounts but they appear more US based, there are a couple of Wescam (what a piece of kit that is) renters but for a little extra it might be worth paying for the experience.
Castleair seem fairly prolific but are based in Cornwall.
...of course that's if I don't take the pillow route (and issues over how I would secure the camera to either myself or the chopper).
Cheers.

Hi David - We had some pics of the set up, but can't lay my hands on them at the moment....

1: Get a nice big fat firmish pillow (its amazing the difference foam density makes in regard to the transmission of vibration - we did various tests with video/film cameras in large model aircraft many years ago).

2: Put a strap around the pillow and around your leg (make sure the pillow is nice and secure (this all needs done in the helicopter - you get funny looks if you walk around with it strapped to your leg :-)

3: Strip your camera of unwanted bits - mic, flags on matte box...(you do not need to remove the viewfinder) anything that can bend or move - the JVC lens hood is fine. You don't want to stick the camera out the doorway anymore than you need to...

4: Put on a thick jacket (helps reduce copter vibration on your body) and yes you must wear the supplied harness & headphones.

5: Put a good thick strap around your arm/neck and onto the camera strap fittings - this is simply to stop the camera falling out the copter (and into the rotor blades - bad news) - the camera should rest on the pillow, there should be no tension on the strap.

6: Having someone in the front with a monitor is a definite plus and will help you to frame shots with ease and keep your exposure correct, particularly when the light keeps changing, if that is what you require. You set the lens to infinity - and you move the camera with your fingures from the rear, as if you were pivoting the camera on the pillow.

7: I also wear surgical gloves to keep my hands warm but still enable fine camera controls.

8: Once you've been up for 5 or 10 minutes you soon settle in, you do some dry runs so that you and the pilot get a feel for things.

9: Always remember.... SAFETY....no loose stuff in the cabin or anything that can fall out of your pockets... good communication with the pilot... plan out what you want to do. However, if you still feel a bit nervous about doing this.... then don't do it. All the best....

Regards: Stu
www.studioscotland.co.uk

I know of a number of helicopter operators in the nearby regions, but not the Manchester area. These operators often have arrangements with camera mount rental companies or their own mount. You could ask BBC Manchester who they use locally - Resources would be mostly likely people in the BBC to know.

Hi David - We had some pics of the set up, but can't lay my hands on them at the moment....

1: Get a nice big fat firmish pillow (its amazing the difference foam density makes in regard to the transmission of vibration - we did various tests with video/film cameras in large model aircraft many years ago).

2: Put a strap around the pillow and around your leg (make sure the pillow is nice and secure (this all needs done in the helicopter - you get funny looks if you walk around with it strapped to your leg :-)

3: Strip your camera of unwanted bits - mic, flags on matte box...(you do not need to remove the viewfinder) anything that can bend or move - the JVC lens hood is fine. You don't want to stick the camera out the doorway anymore than you need to...

4: Put on a thick jacket (helps reduce copter vibration on your body) and yes you must wear the supplied harness & headphones.

5: Put a good thick strap around your arm/neck and onto the camera strap fittings - this is simply to stop the camera falling out the copter (and into the rotor blades - bad news) - the camera should rest on the pillow, there should be no tension on the strap.

6: Having someone in the front with a monitor is a definite plus and will help you to frame shots with ease and keep your exposure correct, particularly when the light keeps changing, if that is what you require. You set the lens to infinity - and you move the camera with your fingures from the rear, as if you were pivoting the camera on the pillow.

7: I also wear surgical gloves to keep my hands warm but still enable fine camera controls.

8: Once you've been up for 5 or 10 minutes you soon settle in, you do some dry runs so that you and the pilot get a feel for things.

9: Always remember.... SAFETY....no loose stuff in the cabin or anything that can fall out of your pockets... good communication with the pilot... plan out what you want to do. However, if you still feel a bit nervous about doing this.... then don't do it. All the best....

Regards: Stu
www.studioscotland.co.uk

Thanks for that Stewart - that's really helpful, should I decide on doing this.
I can't think up a way to make a 'hammock' especially having never entered a helicopter before, so that's out.
When you say camera strap fittings, are you talking about the strap on the lens/zoom of the HD1**? As far as I can see that's the only fitting...unless a strap could be connnected to the main camera handle (which the viewfind and mic is attached to?)

Thanks Brian - I guess there's Granada (and local manchester station 'Channel M' I could contact).

I'll discuss all my concerns with the client, hopefully he'll understand I'm not thinking of letting him down...since my initial thoughts I've now realised this is a hell of a lot more tricky to organise and go through with and I'd hate to hand over useless video at the end of it.
Cheers folks.

When you say camera strap fittings, are you talking about the strap on the lens/zoom of the HD1**? As far as I can see that's the only fitting...unless a strap could be connnected to the main camera handle (which the viewfind and mic is attached to?)


Don't attach anything to the lens!!!

Either the body mounts, or just thread a strap through the handle, the sole purpose of the strap is only to stop the camera making a dash for freedom 1500 feet in the air, particularly if you should hit choppy air (turbulance).....

Stu...
www.studioscotland.co.uk

I had an identical job many years ago. I was hired by a real estate photographer to accompany him on a helicopter trip over Brooklyn, NY while he took photos of a rather large parcel of land. I was to get several sweeping shots of the parcel for a presentation video that the developer would edit in their offices. Since there was no camera mount I had to hand hold a shoulder mount camera (not a HD-100). There was a small sliding window in the side door that was large enough for the lens. I think the opening was intended for still photography.

Only wide angle shots worked, any shot even modestly zoomed in was too shaky to use. Not only from vibrations but from the slight variations in the helicopter's flight while hovering. I wouldn't repeat the experience, especially the resulting nausea from trying to frame a shot while the pilot would adjust the helicopter. If the client isn't willing to pay for the proper equipment then maybe they should forget it and settle with a screen grab from Google Earth!

David,

These are all the serious players in the UK.

http://www.kftv.com/product-country-830-GBR.html

Have fun,

Liam.

I have a lot of time shooting aerials for stills; not so much video, but here's what I've learned:

Try to hire a specialist photo helicopter -- It will have a flat floor in the back with no seats so you can sit cross legged or have your feet out on the skids as needed. The pilot will better know what to do, as well.

You'll get useable shots as the chopper is moving, but won't if he's trying to hover in place. Try to shoot as the pilot is flying with the wind, not crossways to it.

Rent a gyro -- you really need one.

Don't stress about hanging out of a helicopter with the door off -- the centrifugal force keeps you in while you're shooting; otherwise you're away from the door to stay warm anyway. Keep the camera out of the airflow.

Oh -- about the ex-combat pilots: I've had experience with them here in the U.S. as well -- they're a little bit cowboy wild at times, which can be scary, but I generally trust their flying. They are also generally more willing to get a little closer and bend the flight ceiling rules as necessary....

Thanks all...ah I understand about the ex combat pliots now. I'm sure, motion sickness aside (which I'm quite prone to these days...can't even look at a fairground without reaching for a bag), it would be great fun!!
General consensus appears to be that unless dedicated pro kit is used it might turn out to be an expensive wasted trip. Unless of course (as with William's experience) the client is going up anyway to take a few stills, then it's possible I could try and some footage which may or not be salvageable. I believe part of the shoot would be to encircle a plot of land from above which would then 'morph' into this 3D animation. I guess for that to work well (the camera I presume would have to be steady for quite some time as it circles the land below rather than a couple of decent seconds worth of birds eye...

Liam - thanks for the list. I've advised the client of my concerns and I'll happily help organise an experience copter shoot, and even go up if he's going up anyway (for the aforementioned stills) but decent footage from me on this shoot is not truthfully possible.

Don't stress about hanging out of a helicopter with the door off -- the centrifugal force keeps you in while you're shooting; otherwise you're away from the door to stay warm anyway. Keep the camera out of the airflow.

You were harnessed in right...!?!?! I believe in centrifugal force but....

Cheers Stewart...I see the handle is a much safer bet - I guess I could also strap the handle to the hand strap on the lens also - hiking/trek shops best for straps required for this?

Many thanks.

I'd be extremely iffy about filming from a helicopter with my feet on the skids. The camera will more than likely be in the slipstream for a start.

Shooting film or video is very different to stills, because you often manoeuvre the helicopter as part of the shot and you can find yourself getting into the darker parts of the helicopter's envelop.

Sitting on the floor isn't the best place in a low level crash.

I'd be extremely iffy about filming from a helicopter with my feet on the skids. The camera will more than likely be in the slipstream for a start.

Shooting film or video is very different to stills, because you often manoeuvre the helicopter as part of the shot and you can find yourself getting into the darker parts of the helicopter's envelop.

Sitting on the floor isn't the best place in a low level crash.

Indeed, a few pages of research over the past couple of days suggests this isn't something you go into halfheartedly or worse ill informed...perhaps a few times up with an experienced crew and with the correct equipment (and I presume a mounted gyro system you wouldn't have to worry so much about the camera being snatched into the slipstream?) but going out all gung ho is unlikely at best to yield decent results.
Stewarts clip using a pillow works suprisingly well (I take it you sat on the chopper chair Steward and not with your legs dangling perilously?) but I think the aim of this shot is to circle around a given location rather than one or two short bursts of usable video...

Cheers...I may stick nearer to the ground in this career :)

Indeed, a few pages of research over the past couple of days suggests this isn't something you go into halfheartedly or worse ill informed...perhaps a few times up with an experienced crew and with the correct equipment (and I presume a mounted gyro system you wouldn't have to worry so much about the camera being snatched into the slipstream?) but going out all gung ho is unlikely at best to yield decent results.
Stewarts clip using a pillow works suprisingly well (I take it you sat on the chopper chair Steward and not with your legs dangling perilously?) but I think the aim of this shot is to circle around a given location rather than one or two short bursts of usable video...


Yes David - I always sit on the chair with a safety harness with the side door(s) removed - I do not let the camera or myself venture outside the protection of the heli, unless it is hovering or moving slowly and the conditions are calm.

Re:Short clips - Sorry David, for the sake of time, that was the only short movie sample that is already on our site I was able to show you, with the camera and settings you mentioned... we have a good number of long movie clips with this camera at 25p settings that are shake/vibration free - just don't have time to put them up.

The type of shot you mention is not difficult to shoot, and it does not need a gyro mount or any other specialist equipment - be methodical, be safe, good comm's with the pilot and decent weather - take an assistant to help and give moral support.

As you say, you may want to stick with your feet on the ground in your career, but if you wanted to start getting into airborn work then this could be a good opportunity - everyone has to start somewhere. We are shooting a number of scenes in a few weeks cutting footage together from a full size heli and a model heli (that is fitted with gyro's) - I love working with models, you can get them to do some outragous moves.... will try and post some clips when it's done.

However, as I mentioned before, if you don't feel good about it.... pass it bye... but if you do get the chance to go up with the agent for the ride - then go... enjoy.

Regards: Stu
www.studioscotland.co.uk

^^ Cheers Stewart and I look forward to the other clips.
Indeed if the client is going up anyway then I'd take my camera along (with pillows!) and seat myself near the window/door - and would also use 25p. If I'd planned this for myself then that's what I would do. However, I just feel lack of experience in this field would concern me over the quality of footage I'd be handing over.
Not quite sure I have the stomach for pursuing further airborn work but one or two projects would I think be worthwhile.
I don't have a great deal more info on this job as yet but have advised the client of my concerns over getting anything half decent from this...I haven't heard back as yet so perhaps it has been past on.

Many thanks for the tips & advice.