Does anybody know who's winning the battle?

What do your clients want as a general rule? Or do they?

Where did you get the burners, and how much were they? $600?

Joseph

Blue-Ray is winning. all the major studio's are on board with blue-ray accept for one or two. Blue-Ray is capable of holding more info and can read at a higher bit rate. It can also be read by a PS3 which tells you what Sony thinks.

Blu-ray movies are reportedly outselling HD-DVDs about 2:1 overall since the start of this year, and Blockbuster observed a similar ratio in a rental test at over 250 stores - after which they decided to adopt Blu-ray as their standard. Several models of Blu-ray burners are readily available for prices starting at around $450 and blank discs are available in both 25 and 50 GB capacities, while HD-DVD burners are hard to find at any price and blank discs are only available at 15 GB for now. The higher capacity of Blu-ray allows you to use full-bandwidth HDV encoding for long projects, which can be rendered much faster than the MPEG4 encoding required to fit a long project on an HD-DVD. The main thing HD-DVD has going for it is a lower cost for basic players and better ability to play HD content from a standard red-laser disc, but those aren't helping it win much ground.

I recently had a customer request Blu-ray delivery for his wedding video even though he doesn't own an HD player yet, and have not had any requests for HD-DVD. So I'm planning to buy a Blu-ray burner and start recommending that format to those who ask; if someone requests HD-DVD I'd probably try to burn that on a red-laser disc so I don't have to buy another burner.

This is a bit off subject, but I have not found any discussion anywhere on DV info about this. Reportedly people have had great success using Uleads MovieFactory6+ for burning their HDV projects in full HDV resolution just using a standard DVD burner on a standard blank DVD-R disc. You are limited to about 20min, or 40min on a DL disc.
I recently purchased this program, but it does not seem to accept any of my video files. Using Vegas 6 to render out as HDV (as in sending it back to tape), Movie Factory keeps saying "file is not accessible." Funny it will play just fine in WinMedia Player or the VLC player. Next I tried rendering out as an .AVI. Every time I click to add the .avi file to the open moviefactory project , the program crashes. I finally had some success rendering as a .wmv file. The disc plays fine in the HD-DVD player, but the picture came out at 4x3 instead of 16x9. The very small program manual is of no help whatsoever. Just wondering if anyone else has used Moviefactory, if they have encountered some of the same problems, and if they have discovered the magic solution :) Thanks, and again, I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to post this.

you can do the same with blu-ray on standard dvd-+r. I've done it successfully.

Does anybody know who's winning the battle?

What do your clients want as a general rule? Or do they?

Where did you get the burners, and how much were they? $600?

Joseph

In our town is a video rental shop who has their first high def video's in, (3 movie titles, one of them the latest James bond movie) it was not hddvd but blue ray. The shop owner told me he took them in because he had 2 clients with a playstation 3.
My clients have not asked for blue ray yet and I"m sure most of them don"t even know what it means, I will only buy a hddvd or blue ray recorder if I know for sure which one of the 2 will be the safest bet. It might as well be that there won't be a "winner" and that both formats continue to exist side by side. You might get dual recorders capable of recording to both formats or if prices continue to drop we might have to buy 2 types of hd recorders to supply our clients with the proper format.

you can do the same with blu-ray on standard dvd-+r. I've done it successfully.

That's great, but do the disks play in any set top blue ray players? Even if you have a blue Ray burner and buy the ridiculously priced blank BD-R to record on, many set top units will NOT play BD-R discs, only BD-ROM discs, which I don't think are available to the public, and I don't know if current Blue RAy burners are capable of using them if they were. So, to play your Blue Ray disc, you stuck with playing it via the burner in your computer, as I understand it. I just purchased a SONY Blue Ray Player, and the manual specifically list BD-R along with HD-DVD as disc types that will NOT play on the unit. Gee thanks Sony, guess I'll be returning your baby back to Bestbuy tomorrow.

That's great, but do the disks play in any set top blue ray players?

I recently confirmed that you can play HDV content from standard red-laser DVDs in the Sony Playstation 3, which is probably the best-selling Blu-ray player at this point in time. If I get a chance I'll try this in other Blu-ray players to see what happens.

Hey Guys,
I have been successful in authoring BR discs (albeit crude)...menus and all, and burning to Blu-Ray BD-RE discs via DVD-IT Pro HD on a Lacie burner. I am able to view them on the PS3. I obtained a plug-in "Monte Carlo" via web and inserted it into the dvd authoring program...viola ! Plug-in free...BD-RE disc ( which you can reuse over) $20.00..

Thats good news Kevin, are you using DVD5 or DVD9's?
9+ gig's is a lot of space for HD content if "Extra's" aren't taking up space, and content is limited to 90 odd min.
Has anyone done the same thing with an HD-DVD player? Can't see why it wouldn't. Hope so.
I read that the HD-DVD is the highest selling perif, for the 360. IMHO who ever wins the console wars, will win the DVD wars.

Just to point out that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray can offer the exact same level of quality. They both support mpeg2, VC1 and AVCHD at equal bitrates.

The only thing that is different is the cost and how much you can fit on each disk. HD-DVD disks have less space. HD-DVD players are of course cheaper and it is very common and easy to use cheap DVD disks to create HD-DVD content that will play on any HD-DVD player.

For me it all comes down to cost. I choose HD-DVD right now because I can give my clients HD content or create HD content for myself for less then $1.00 per disk. There also seems to be more options right now for cheap HD-DVD authoring. DVD-it is kind of expensive right now and add to that the cost of a Blu-Ray burner and Blu-Ray disks and the cost is very high.

The only reason why Blu-Ray seems to be winning right now is because of the massive amount of marketing money behind the product. Other then it being forced down our throats there is nothing that makes Blu-Ray better in any way other then it can fit more video per disk given an equal quality level. This is the main reason why I am against Blu-Ray right now. I could really care less what format wins as long as it is easy to produce and can be done so for a decent price level. I will gladly buy Blu-Ray products once the price comes down. In order for Blu-Ray to become mainstream the way it needs to for clients to want it is going to have to greatly reduce in price to the $100.00 to $200.00 price range.

The last thing I think anyone wants is a Sony price controlled media. We have been lucky with CD/DVD's, but we have to realize that Blue-ray is a corporate push to regain market control. Aren't you glad VHS won and we all got affordable decks and cheap blank tapes?

Ken: I'm using single-layer DVD-R discs because I don't trust dual-layer ones. That makes the extra capacity of Blu-ray significant because it allows a long project in HDV format on one layer, something other alternatives can't support. Add to that the fact that Blu-ray burners are widely available while HD-DVD burners aren't, plus more authoring programs are supporting Blu-ray because the burners are shipping, and Blu-ray is clearly a more mature solution at this point in time. As Thomas noted it's cheaper to deliver HD content on red-laser discs for HD-DVD playback, but then you don't really have much choice about that until proper burners are shipping.

Blu-ray is winning because of sales of the PS3, which is an excellent multimedia device and game machine. HD-DVD has lost ground with consumers even though the players are currently cheaper, so as Blu-ray player prices fall (which they are doing) it will be even harder for HD-DVD to make headway.

As far as disc prices are concerned, there are already several brands of Blu-ray discs available but few HD-DVDs, and the Blu-ray discs cost less per GB. Plus Blu-ray burners and discs are about to move to 4X write speed while HD-DVD is still at 1-2X, so development dollars appear to be flowing to the Blu-ray side. I don't know what Sony's long-term pricing plans are, but if they want Blu-ray to be ubiquitous they'll have to try to hold the cost of discs down.

The problem with Blu-Ray Kevin, is where specs on paper don't translate to a better playback experience. Blu-Ray is region coded, lack of audio CD playback, and unfinalized specs in flux. The 50 gb disk was conceived because that was the only way to fit 2 hours of mpeg-2 video on a single disk. But when Microsoft and Toshiba told them it wasn't needed because of the new VC1 codec and advances in conventional manufacturing technology, they didn't listen. HD-DVD emerged as a competing format that was first to market, but surprisingly had better picture quality due to the more advanced codec. Blu-Ray has been making gains since that time, but home made authoring of disks isn't one of them. There, HD-DVD had a 9 month lead. Blu-Ray has surpassed HD-DVD in the availability of high capacity burners and media, but compatibility remains an ongoing problem. BD-R's don't playback in all the players. Blu-Ray authored to DVD5/9 is problematic as well, playing mainly in PS3's not running the latest firmware. So while it's not unusual to make a Blu-Ray authored disk that works in a personal player, making one with compatibility across platforms has not been achieved.

So I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your conclusions. They are way premature. And this format battle is far from over. Toshiba is putting HD-DVD burners in laptop computers. The home market in China may end up being the most significant factor, a market potential 3 times the size of the U.S.

The only obstacle to mainstream adoption of HD-DVD for U.S. consumers is a boycott by 5 major Hollywood studios. Without the continued solidarity of these strange bedfellows, the more expensive and so far unprofitable Blu-Ray format would likely be trounced by lower cost, profitable HD-DVD players.

Kevin, I am so ready for mainstream Blu-Ray authoring. It is a wonderful playback experience. But at this time, it simply is not ready as a format for distribution of HD content due to its compatibility woes.

Tom: I think you're missing the points I'm trying to emphasize, so let's review.

(1) Blu-ray movie sales are currently outpacing HD-DVD by a ratio of 2:1

(2) Blu-ray burners are readily available at speeds up to 4X, while HD-DVD burners are hard to find and then only at 1-2X.

(3) A single-layer Blu-ray disc can hold up to two hours of HDV 1080i content, which is significant if you want to distribute a long project in HDV format. HD-DVD single-layer can only hold 70 minutes of HDV and single-layer DVD5 about 20 minutes. Dual-layer discs are unreliable and hence not of interest to me.

(4) It typically takes much less time to encode a finished HD project to HDV than to either H.264 or VC1, at least until we get affordable real-time encoders. Hence if production efficiency is desired, HDV is a the quickest output format and that makes Blu-ray a useful delivery format.

The main thing HD-DVD has going for it is that you can cram HD content onto a red-laser disc and deliver that to others without paying for a new burner or expensive blue-laser discs. But we don't even need HD-DVD for that since that's been possible for some time now anyway, and if you make long videos you have to compress the heck out of them to make this work.

Also note that HD-DVD and Blu-ray offer *exactly* the same picture quality using the same supported codecs and bit rates. If some Blu-ray movies haven't looked as good as some HD-DVD movies, that's solely a matter of encoding quality settings. The best thing you can do for home-made HD discs is render out to the HDV format at full bandwidth to make sure you don't lose much during rendering, and that brings us back to all of my points above. HD-DVD has nothing to offer in this regard since it doesn't support any encoding options not available for Blu-ray.

If home-made Blu-ray discs are proving to be problematic on some players that's something to keep in mind until that issue gets sorted out, which presumably it will. Until then I suppose there's a niche for HD-DVD on red-laser discs as a stop-gap measure, but the format as a whole appears to be in trouble.

Hi - this message is for Kevin.

Kevin - can you please expand on this comment below sir

<kevin> "It typically takes much less time to encode a finished HD project to HDV than to either H.264 or VC1, at least until we get affordable real-time encoders. Hence if production efficiency is desired, HDV is a the quickest output format and that makes Blu-ray a useful delivery format"


How are you currently doing this? I'm thinking of picking up an external Lacie Drive for my MAC and thinking this is a quick easy way to push footage to BR. I assume this will play on any BR player including PS3

Your help is greatly appreciated. Source footage will be HDV - going to FCP5.

Thanks
Paul

(4) It typically takes much less time to encode a finished HD project to HDV than to either H.264 or VC1, at least until we get affordable real-time encoders. Hence if production efficiency is desired, HDV is a the quickest output format and that makes Blu-ray a useful delivery format.

Blu-Ray in this manner could be a useful delivery format. But will it play? Not all Blu-Ray players will play burned content on BD-R media. That is the first priority for a useful delivery format.

But as to the other point about production efficiency, while HDV is the quickest output agreed, it is:

1.) Supported directly already by HD-DVD with AC3 5.1 audio and working menus.
2.) A project jointly sponsored by Microsoft and Amazon called "1000 HD-DVD Indies Project," whereby at no charge, up to 1000 selected entries will be authored to HD DVD using Microsoft's VC-1 coding and then made available to Amazon customers through the CustomFlix Disc on Demand service. Units are produced as customers order, so there is no inventory to worry about. Filmmakers set their own list price and earn royalties on all sales. Plus, filmmakers are free to pursue traditional distribution deals while participating in this Project. There is no limit to the number of titles, but after the first 1000 entries are selected, the Customflix authoring fee of $499 will apply. Customflix also offers other services, such as custom cover design.

So for a wedding videographer, BD-R even at $20 retail per disk is probably not an obstacle for delivery. But large scale distribution in the near term for Indie film makers is going to be much more suited to HD-DVD format.

With either format, what you have to keep in perspective is that it represents only 1% compared to std definition DVD. So anything you do on HD will be secondary and parallel to std def DVD.

Right now, you can't encode anything with VC-1. But through the Customflix service, they take your HDV project from tape and author it to HD-DVD for you using VC-1 encoding. Along with distribution on Amazon, that's pretty compelling you have to admit.

So I think what's lost in the impassioned debates on HD-DVD versus Blu-Ray is the broader utility being planned for HD-DVD that happens with or without Hollywood movie studio support. HD-DVD burners are currently shipping with Toshiba laptop computers.

As planned, HD-DVD can co-exist with Blu-Ray in the market. And unless Blu-Ray starts making a profit, it could fail in the marketplace even without HD-DVD. While it has allied more studio support, it should be noted two of its partners remain on the sidelines, Fox and Disney. The PS3 has successfully skewed the sales of HD titles in the favor of Blu-Ray on the order of 65% to 35%, while Toshiba has sold more standalone units, and has been adopted by China.

So far from being over, with only 1% of the DVD market going to HD-DVD and Blu-Ray combined, it's barely underway. The fate of HD-DVD as a viable format will not be decided by the boycotting hollywood studios or blockbuster video rentals.

How are you currently doing this? I'm thinking of picking up an external Lacie Drive for my MAC and thinking this is a quick easy way to push footage to BR. I assume this will play on any BR player including PS3

For now I'm just rendering my finished projects to M2T files (from Edius) and putting those on external USB2 drives for playback on the PS3. Unfortunately, I haven't heard of anyone successfully making a Blu-ray disc from the Mac platform, and that includes someone who's been trying his best to do so using Adobe CS3. Most Mac users appear to be using HD-DVD authoring with delivery on red laser discs because that's what's available, with no blue-laser disc support working yet. I'll be attempting to make a Blu-ray disc on a PC soon and will have more to say about that once I've tried it.

So for a wedding videographer, BD-R even at $20 retail per disk is probably not an obstacle for delivery. But large scale distribution in the near term for Indie film makers is going to be much more suited to HD-DVD format.

If you're saying that indies are going to try distributing HD content in volume on red-laser discs to reduce costs, that will be interesting to see if it works. I wonder how customers will feel about paying good money for a compromise solution like that.

Right now, you can't encode anything with VC-1. But through the Customflix service, they take your HDV project from tape and author it to HD-DVD for you using VC-1 encoding. Along with distribution on Amazon, that's pretty compelling you have to admit.

What will be compelling is a reliable way to make blue-laser discs yourself for a reasonable price, which apparently is still a ways off. The Microsoft/CustomFlix solution sounds interesting but has a bit of a 'publicity stunt' feel to it.

Agreed that as far as long-term prospects go there's still plenty of time for things to change. For the HD-DVD format, shipping some burners which can be bought separately would be a good start.

By the way, I checked out the CustomFlix web site and they're listing their current offering as a "WMV-HD DVD", not HD-DVD (see link below). I've yet to hear of any independent producer making a proper blue-laser HD-DVD, while a few are apparently succeeding at making Blu-ray.

http://www.customflix.com/Products/HighDefinition.jsp

Not WMV-HD, but HD-DVD.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/AQM05402072007-1.htm

Their web site is confusing about this - can anyone now order an HD-DVD from them other than through the promotion?

Ordering is the same process after the initial 1000 entries are closed with the exception you would then have to pay the 499 dollar fee. It's free for the first 1000 to launch the program.

Interesting. Any indication what they'll charge per copy to distribute an HD-DVD disc?

http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/18/hd-dvd-touts-sales-growth-over-blu-rays-decline/

It looks like it will be a LONG time til this matter gets solved.

Why can't the two formats come together? haha aah

Is there a writer that writes both formats- Blu-Ray and HD-DVD?

Joseph

It looks like it will be a LONG time til this matter gets solved.

Why can't the two formats come together? haha aah

Is there a writer that writes both formats- Blu-Ray and HD-DVD?

Joseph


Agree. And I really don't care which format except I want a distrbution format to be compatible with all the players and all the future proposed specs, just like DVD now. And that's my current objection with Blu-Ray, the specs aren't finalized and the disks you burn with Blu-Ray burners are not playable in all Blu-Ray players.

HD-DVD is more stable in that sense, but behind in that the only current option for distribution is on low capacity red laser media, which in some ways, is more of a feature than a flaw depending on your perspective.

I'm content to author for both formats but Blu-Ray is not obliging on all players.

After a lot of thought about all this I went ahead and ordered a Pioneer Blu-ray burner with a copy of the Adobe CS3 upgrade, and last night I made my first Blu-ray test disc successfully on the first try. As far as I'm concerned Blu-ray wins by virtue of having the only fully functional HD delivery option for independent producers, with readily available burners, discs and authoring software. The current issues with BD-R playback on some Blu-ray players is a nuisance which I assume will get solved by future player updates, as was the case for early DVD-R producers. Plus I'm figuring that the majority of Blu-ray players in circulation are Playstation 3s, which is the obvious thing to buy unless you need something more formal for a business setting (and the PS3 is the best-looking HD disc player anyway, so even there it's a toss-up). As far as HD-DVD is concerned I have the same capability to deliver for that (using red-laser discs) as just about everyone else, so no loss there by investing in a Blu-ray burner.

The big question now is whether there will ever be a single HD encoding format (codec) which will work reliably on computers, HD-capable game machines and standalone HD disc players. As things stand today WMV-HD seems best for computers and the Xbox 360 but doesn't work readily on the PS3, while MPEG2-HD and AVCHD should work on pretty much anything except the Xbox 360. I used to argue against AVC encoding but now see that it will likely prevail because it's becoming a consumer standard in some video cameras plus a widely used format in video iPods. AVCHD is currently problematic for widespread playback because it's so extremely processor-intensive, but its use in consumer devices will presumably drive improvements in that regard in the long run.

So the Blu-ray disc format wins by default because HD-DVD never showed up for the battle, plus the Playstation 3 is outselling any other type of HD content player by a wide margin. And while MPEG2-HD is currently my preferred rendering format for production efficiency, I anticipate a gradual shift to AVCHD in spite of Microsoft's best efforts to push VC1. With Blockbuster's announcement to back Blu-ray and HD-DVD only hanging on by paying $150 million to movie studios to use their discs, the format war is pretty well over and we just have to wait another year or so to write the final concluding chapters of this saga. Thank goodness it wasn't really much of a war, more like a schoolyard fight...

I even like the name "Blu-Ray" better than the plain "HD-DVD" Player.

I will begin to buy Blu-Ray merchandise once HD-DVD is officially considered obsolete.

I can hardly wait!!!

Plus I'm figuring that the majority of Blu-ray players in circulation are Playstation 3s

I've seen the first blue ray movies appear in some video rental stores in Belgium but no hd dvd yet, the store owners said that their clients renting the blue ray disks all owned a PS3. I also read a test between several BR players and they included a PS3 as well, surprisingly the PS3 came out best with best image quality and cheapest of the bunch, considering that it can play games as well it is a player that can't be beat right now.
I think the playstation will have a very important role pushing hd-dvd in the corner.

I chose BluRay over HD-DVD mostly because I can find and afford a BluRay Burner if I need to self-distribute.

Full stop.

I don't like Sony, I really don't. I think they're so obsessed with creating vendor lock-in that they're shooting themselves in the foot - and if BluRay wins the High Def war, pretty soon you'll have BluRay players only able to play Sony movies on Sony television sets connected to Sony speakers.

Blu-ray

Full length movies with menus are possible and I can use my PS3 to test, as that is the most common high def player available in any format.

I did video on CD before I did DVD and don't want to do that makeshift solution for high def videos on regular DVD's again.

Besides I think that the BD-r coatings make them more durable than the HD-DVD-r discs.

Just to point out that both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray can offer the exact same level of quality. They both support mpeg2, VC1 and AVCHD at equal bitrates.
Thomas,

As far as I know, although both HD-DVD and BluRay support same codecs (MPEG2, AVC - a.k.a. H.264, and VC1), BluRay player architecture supports transfers from the laser via data bus at higher rates than HD-DVD. It means that authoring houses could potentially use higher bit rate for any of the encoding schemes.

Single-layer DVD5 [holds] about 20 minutes. Dual-layer discs are unreliable and hence not of interest to me.
Does the unreliability of dual-layer DVDs come from your own experience? At what stage they are unreliable: during burning or after delivery? I use dual-layer DVDs regularly and so far had two incomplete burns (this hurts because disks are expensive and they are slower, so burning takes forever), but finalized disks work well.

After a lot of thought about all this I went ahead and ordered a Pioneer Blu-ray burner with a copy of the Adobe CS3 upgrade, and last night I made my first Blu-ray test disc successfully on the first try.
Does it require to set a specific region, or region info is optional like with DVDs?

Does the unreliability of dual-layer DVDs come from your own experience? At what stage they are unreliable: during burning or after delivery?

I've had brand new mainstream (Hollywood) DVDs which exhibit severe playback problems at a point which appears to correspond to the need for a layer break. I figure if Hollywood can't get this right with all their millions of dollars in equipment I'm not going to try, and it's common sense that the technical complexity of a dual-layer disc is more prone to playback problems than single-layer discs. Plus my finished videos frequently run to 90 minutes or so in length, which means that even a dual-layer DVD-R disc isn't going to work for delivering HD-DVD projects using MPEG2 encoding -- and other encoding options take too long. If I had a customer who really wanted HD-DVD I'd try packing my content onto a single-layer disc or using two discs before attempting a dual-layer approach.

since HD-DVD standard is accepting the HD on plain DVD-R, this will probably boost people to burn HD content on their DVD burner (almost every PC user got one today). Then they will look for players (coming soon, since most of DVD players blueprints can be easily upgraded to play HD content).
Prices for bluray now had better to go down very fast to keep up with this.
expect for Xmas to see lots of chinese player with the new standard.
that is probably a bad news for DivX either, since they were the only ones to promote HD on vanilla DVD.
Sony seems not to learn from previous failure (minidisc, microMV, portable playstation discs, mp3 players...)
overprotected, overpriced media kill the business.
I would be a Sony top manager, i would flood the market with cheap bluray burner even at loss.
after all sony has no benefit in burner, only on the special coating involved into bluray disc.

I've had brand new mainstream (Hollywood) DVDs which exhibit severe playback problems at a point which appears to correspond to the need for a layer break. I figure if Hollywood can't get this right with all their millions of dollars in equipment I'm not going to try

The layer change problem you experienced with dual-layer disks may be in fact your player's problem.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-3-functionality-10-2000.html

Since the release of T2, we have been able to enjoy longer films without interruptions. While a minor pause is better than getting up and flipping a disc, sometimes it does disrupt the flow. WHQL was authored with a non-seamless layer change that takes place during a title roll. At this point in time, seamless layer changes are not allowed by the DVD spec. (Seamless means you don't notice the change, but it is complicated, and that is why it is not allowed by the spec.)
...
Because the change is always noticeable, it is very useful for evaluating a player's ability to quickly change layers.

Couple of results for 2004:
Denon - DVD-2200 -- 0 sec (seamless layer change)
Arcam - DV-78 -- 2 sec

Couple of results for 2007:
Toshiba - HD-XA2 -- 1.75 sec
Samsung - BD-P1200 -- 0.75 sec
Oppo Digital - DV-981HD -- 0 sec (seamless layer change)

since HD-DVD standard is accepting the HD on plain DVD-R, this will probably boost people to burn HD content on their DVD burner (almost every PC user got one today). Then they will look for players (coming soon, since most of DVD players blueprints can be easily upgraded to play HD content).

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21095732/

Matsushita, the world's largest maker of plasma TVs, took the wraps off the new Blu-ray and DVD recorders at the CEATEC Japan 2007 electronics industry trade show on Tuesday.

The company said it will start selling three models of new DVD recorders capable of recording full HD programs on conventional DVD discs on November 1.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/new-toshiba-hd-dvd-recorders-also-write-hd-to-regular-dvds-307067.php

Panasonic isn't the only one showing off high-def recording at CEATEC. Toshiba announced three new HD DVD recorders, including the new flagship Vardia RD-X7. All of them can convert MPEG-2 to AVCHD MPEG-4 on the fly, and can store high-def video on DVD-R (2 hrs) and single-layer HD DVD-R (6 hrs) discs.

The layer change problem you experienced with dual-layer disks may be in fact your player's problem.

But if the players I'm buying are typical of what my customers are buying, I don't want them experiencing the same layer break problems I'm seeing. As far as I'm concerned multi-layer discs are a complexity to be avoided, for either SD or HD delivery.

But if the players I'm buying are typical of what my customers are buying, I don't want them experiencing the same layer break problems I'm seeing. As far as I'm concerned multi-layer discs are a complexity to be avoided, for either SD or HD delivery.
I don't know what kind of problem you have with double-layer disks. If you player freezes forever and requires turning off and on, this is severe but very rare problem. If it simply freezes for 1-2 seconds for layer change, this is normal and I don't see this as a problem. What is more, most cheap players from Walmart don't have this issue. They may have issues with cadence, chroma or overscan, but they usually don't have issue with layer change because otherwise customer would have been returning them.

I think that your position against dual-layer disks is unreasonable.

I think that your position against dual-layer disks is unreasonable.

Perhaps, but as I said before it's common sense that adding the complexity of multiple layers to a DVD is inherently less likely to be reliable, and making reliable DVDs is enough of a hassle without that. Plus there's no cost-savings for using one dual-layer disc versus two single-layer, other than reducing time for the initial setup. In any case, I'm glad that a single-layer Blu-ray disc can hold a lot of HD content in a format which is quick and easy to render, so I'll prefer that over trying to pack HD material onto a red-laser disc.