I have had this in my cart at B&H and for the last two weeks almost ordered it each day but I have some uncertancies.

Are you happy with the AF?

Can you get a pretty shallow DOF since it is a 1.8-2.8 lens ? I know it has 1/4 inch sensors. I want to take some shallow DOF video of my kids with out getting a Letus or similar adapter,plus if it gets good shallow DOF it would be AF .

Would the low light be better than my HC3 ?

Does anyone think it is too big for a family/hobby camera to bring with you after you got it?

Any thoughts would be helpful.

DOF is not going to be shallow compared to the HC3. Low light is probably a tiny bit better, but not really significant. All HDV cameras are just fair in low light at this time. The size is definitely going to be more cumbersome for a family camera. Yes, it fits on an airplane or any other vehicle, but it's going to be cumbersome to lug all day on family outings. If you move at a slower pace and want to do some nature footage, the manual controls and long lens of the FX7 is unbeatable.

Thanks Marcus , .
what you said is exactly what I was guessing and I have not pulled the trigger.

I most likely will just wait till something new comes out instead unless the money burns a hole in my pocket. I will wishfor a small HDV cam with 20X and manual control to come out soon.

For the record, I used the V1U last weekend and got amazing results as far as DOF goes; I was very impressed. I didn't think it would come anywhere near close to what it did without using a Redrock or a Letus...but the results I got just by using its long lens really shocked me.

You may be surprised too.

I may be able to post a clip if you like. I shot it at 24P and I have the M2T file on my hard drive at home.

I've used the FX7 a lot too, which is also a great cam...and I would definitely choose it over the FX1. The FX7 obviously share most of the same video characteristics as the V1U.

I think the FX7 is very light... compared to my tripod which I hate lugging around all day, it's about 4lbs and is definitely not that hard to carry.

For family stuff the single cmos canon's and sony's are great, I had some excellent DOF from my HV10 before I went to FX7 but now I can't live without 20x optical zoom...

the AF is good if the lense/filter is clean, I film paintball and got a bit of paint on the filter and the camera would actually focus on the dirt/paint on the filter occasionally and I'd give it a couple seconds and it'd adjust correctly... 99% of the time it was great, just on occasion, I think my HV10 tended to be a bit better, it never focused on the filter. But on occasion it did have trouble focusing, I do like the instant-autofocus but it's not a big deal for me.

Well, I just tested an FX7 in Yellowstone NP. My friend just bought the FX7 two weeks ago and earlier tonight we hooked it up to my HD plasma via HDMI and wow, what a surprise. The PQ from that cam was great (IMO). Not that I have had any other experiences with HD camcorders, other than playing with them at BB. The picture produced from the FX7 was far superior to my old digital camcorder. Colors, details, depth of field, clarity, etc. was something to behold. Can hardly wait until I save up enough money to get an FX7 for myself.

Mike

The reason I did not recommend jumping for the FX7 is that Joey stated it's use as a family camera. I think it is more important to keep the family having fun and pull out the camera when convenient than to make the family grumpy by lugging a big camera and keeping it in their faces.

I guess I try to skirt the edge of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle with video. It is impossible to study something without having an effect on the subject. You can not put a camera in the midst of the family without it influencing the family's actions. Either the camera will make people a bit self-conscious or it will be a physical burden. I think people can get over shyness but in the case of video cameras, mass is converted directly into fatigue. I think it is better to have a small camera and get slightly less quality from the picture than to have a big camera and get less quality time from the family.

On the other hand, if the family are a bunch of shutterbugs or camera hogs, the FX7 could be a focal point of activities.

Joey -
AF seems pretty good, I've got mine set with the focus assist so I can hit the ring if needed to "help" it. I think it has a button to tell it to focus on there too, go to fiddle with that. I'd rate the IAF of the HV20 as a bit faster and more accurate, but the FX7 is workable. I like being able to throw the focus out and let the AF bring it back in...

PQ is going to be a lot better than the HC3... but then again the HC7 and HV20 also will be much better, at a lower price point. AND they are better for "family" use.

The FX7 is not overly large or heavy, BUT you're not going to chase around a couple little ones all day at a theme park with this thing... whereas the HC7 and a full accessory set will fit in a small bag and go with you just about anywhere, AND double for stills...

The FX7 looks more pro, and has a lot of nice features, but it's a bigger package and the way I've got my HC7 tricked out I can do almost the same things with it... I've got enough stuff I can hang on it to make it look pretty "pro".

I'd rate the low light of the HC7 as much better than the HC3 - I ran a test side by side, and saw some nasty macroblocking on the 3 in low light - the HC7 was about the same noise wise, but a better overall picture. Neither was spectacular, just the HC7 had better detail - the 3 was mostly mush when examined closely...

If you're looking at the FX7, at least give the HC7 (and maybe the HV20) a look - picture quality on both those cams is superior to the HC3 - the little 3 wasn't bad, but I upgraded to the HC7 quickly, and I'd do it again.

Then again, once I finally got hands on an FX7, it knocked me out... Just shot a wedding with the FX7, 2 HC7s, and an HV20 - not a bad looking cam in the bunch, only minor color correction to match them, and really more a matter of learning to operate the camera than which one is "better" - ALL were more than acceptable. I did enjoy the added control of the FX7... but I used the HC7 for the reception and got incredible video with it too, probably because I've had the most hands on time with that cam!

Probably confusing you more, but hope that helps a bit to answer some of your questions.

Hi guys...

My input on the FX7 is shooting a bit different. My friend and I shoot r/c helicopters with the fx7. The machines move anywhere from 50-80 mph and we have no problem for the most part with autofocus(with the exception of an occasional cloud throwing it off every now and then). We have more of a problem tracking them with our skills(LOL) that are every week getting better. The videos look great with the zoom which is super long, and though it is a larger camera, it isn't too heavy.

I think it is definately a "tripod" camera and as others have said, if your going to be using a camera with your family events, you may want to consider a smaller unit. But the pictures this thing produce are simply fantastic IMHO.

But you will of course as others have said have to weigh the options. But its a great camera and well worth the money. Definately one you will(or at least I know we are and have only had it a few weeks) grow with for a while..

Damon

For the record, I used the V1U last weekend and got amazing results as far as DOF goes; I was very impressed. I didn't think it would come anywhere near close to what it did without using a Redrock or a Letus...but the results I got just by using its long lens really shocked me.

You may be surprised too.



I second that. For a camera with just .25" imagers, once you are in the longer zoom range you can really control the DOF. One thing to remember is limit the aperture closing; use ND filters to achieve that (should this not suffice, increase the shutter speed - I've proved it's not going to spoil the image as easy as many fear because of the strobing and rolling shutter potential).

Forgive my lapse of memory, but for the life of me I can't remember what an "ND" filter is.

Thanks.
Mike

Forgive my lapse of memory, but for the life of me I can't remember what an "ND" filter is.

Thanks.
Mike

Neutral density filters; you engage them to limit the amount of light without changing its characterics.

Neutral density filters; you engage them to limit the amount of light without changing its characterics.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Complete novice you know.

Thanks.
Mike

You can use an ND filter to reduce the amount of light coming into your camera as an alternative to using a small F-stop. Depending on other things, this might help keep the depth of field shallower since you can use a larger iris opening.

Keep in mind, the most important factor determining depth of field is the camera's chip size(s). So if all other things are equal (focal length and iris setting), a camera with 1/3" chips will have shallower depth of field than a camera with 1/4" chips. But honestly, the only way to get shallow depth of field with any of these cameras is to zoom way in.

If you're interested in the tech details, see the following article: http://www.dvinfo.net/articles/optics/dofskinny.php

I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Complete novice you know.

Thanks.
MikeMike - an ND filter is basically like sunglasses for your camcorder.

thats it ! (in simplistic terms)

HI,

If you're waiting for a high definition camera the size of a HC7 or HV20 with a 20x zoom lens, it won't happen in my opinion. Larger lens means poorer light performance, so it comes down to lens size vs. picture quality, and picture quality is more important.

Considering what you want to do with the camera, I highly recommend the HV20. It'll give you everything you need and at a decent price. The instant focus works well, and when you get motivated to try manual focus, it has a very nice focus assist. I choose the HC7 myself but only because the HV20 didn't have a LANC jack. I don't use auto focus that often, so that's not a biggie. I do wish it had a focus assist, though. The HC7 also doesn't feel as fragile as the HV20. Both cameras can double as still and video, but the HC7 has better resolution stills. Personally, I don't believe in using a video camera for stills. Anyway, good luck on your choice for a camcorder.

Mike - an ND filter is basically like sunglasses for your camcorder.

thats it ! (in simplistic terms)

Thanks to Boyd and Stu. I think I understand now.

Mike

Ha another explanation.. :-)

Mike, The lens opening on cameras can be wide open or closed down with the aperature... and several settings in between....

When a lens is wide open it lets in more light and the exposure of light to the sensor is shorter in time for a good exposure.

Besides creating the ability to capture high action with such short exposure times it also creates a shallow depth of field.

When a lens is closed down it lets in less light and the exposure of light to the sensor is longer in time.

In this case, high action footage could suffer bluring and the extra time for the light presented at the sensor for proper exposure creates a picture with more depth of field.

So if you are outdoors in very bright light but you want be able to adjust your exposure and keep a shallow depth of field (wide open lens) you just use a ND filter.

As indicated in a previous post... your putting the sun glasses on your camera so you can control the depth of field and exposure timing to your likes. This way you can calculate and produce the depth of focus for your shot.

On camera's with very fast lenses (F1.8 for example) you have to put in place ND filters because the shutter speed will be maxed out due to too much light and the footage blown in the high lights. Most cameras have built in ND filters to help you out in this situation. External ND filters let you deside to the strength of ND filter to use so you can get the results you want while shooting. Its of course a option to use both internal ND filters and external filters......

Most cameras will flash a warning in the display when a ND filter is required.

Thanks Ray. Does the FX7 have these filters built in? If not, how do you determine which to get? If they are built in, are additional ones necessary? I will be doing some panoramic shooting out west this next summer, with some exposures taking in as much of a field of view as I can get. I have a degree in Geology and am really interested in getting as much detail from the landforms and rock formations as I can, and seeing it all in its natural settings. When shooting from a distance, I want to be able to emerse myself in the end product....the video that I have shot. For me that means not only seeing what my eyes would naturally see, but also being drawn into the picture and "feeling" the colors, texture, and scope of the whole picture on the widescreen TV. Whether it be close up shots of rock cuts or broad, sweeping panoramic shots of the Big Horn Basin from the mountains at sunrise, I want to see it as it really is, as it I were still there. I think I am saying that depth of field, details (ie clarity), and overall PQ (colors and textures) are very important.
THATS why I am so excited about the FX7. From what I saw from my friends footage shot with his new FX7 on my plasma, it seems just what the doctor ordered. Some day I'll be too old to get out there and see the west and all that beauty. With the DVDs that I will be producing, I'll be able to visit it all again and again, and lose myself once more in each scene on the TV.

Mike

Mike, yes the FX7 does have the built in ND filters, two of them....

you should also consider getting a polarizer filter for your shooting methods that you have described and with this filter in place it will also help with the exposure/depth of focus in outdoors settings...

in this case its like putting sunglasses on your camera that are polarized :-) using this method will also bring the light down so you can use the internal ND filters.

if you liked the colors and detail with your friends FX7, learn how to use the rotating polarizer and you'll get much better color saturation......

before you get your own FX7 you might want to download the manual and read up on the use of zebra exposure assist and the use of the built in ND filters...

before you get your own FX7 you might want to download the manual and read up on the use of zebra exposure assist and the use of the built in ND filters...

Thanks again Ray. Where can I find the address to download said manual?

Mike

http://www.manualshark.org/manualshark/files/4/pdf_6671.pdf

Mike you can find it here: http://www.sony-asia.com/section/support

Stelios

Thanks guys.
Mike

Thanks for all the posts this has helped me alot. I video every thing from family stuff to wildlife. I love high definition but I miss my 18x optical and focus ring on my really old Sony D-8mm cam. Im suprised how many features are missing from the recent cameras. I think I need to look at it one more time at the Sony store.

Thanks guys.

Joey
I've checked out your post and your site - you may be a hobbyist but there's nothing neophytic about your clips.
I'd recommend the FX7 for your use. It's just small and light enough not to get in the way, and advanced enough to be a step above your existing cameras.
Check out my thread in this section called "call me silly but..." or somesuch.
I think you'll find quite a lot of your answers there.
Drop me a PM if you have any further questions.
Cheers
Chris

I have been very pleased with my FX7 purchase. It was an excellent step up from my HDR-HC1! The 3 chip images are pristine, and the manual controls make a huge difference. Low light is better , and limiting gain along with a shutter of 1/30th helps you reach into the dark much better than the HC1.

The FX7 is certainly larger than the HC1, but still very manageable in a messenger bag around town. (I think the HC1 will still be useful for my out of town family trips).

The only real competition to the FX7 is the Canon A1 at a price of almost $1,000 more! It may be somewhat better, but as a prosumer the FX7 is an excellent choice!

--Robert