My question is reguarding business aspects of wedding videography.

Here's the deal, I've done two weddings for free, one as 2nd cam op, and about to do one with my GL2 and my panasonic (which is a one chip) as my stationary cam.

After I get back the footage from both of these weddings i'm going to throw together a demo.

Then what? .....

I'm not getting money for these weddings, so I cannot yet invest in a 2nd 3 chip camcorder, which is my biggest worry. I want to put together a website and pricing packages, but .. can I?

I know shooting on one cam is bad, but will people be willing to pay me a decent amont for a two cam with one being a 1 chip camcorder?

Should I even offer the 2nd cam in the price or just try to do it with one camcorder for a few hundred bucks until I get enough to buy the 2nd camcorder and then rack up my prices?

As of now, I have my boyfriend doing 2nd cam for me, but he won't do it for long until I can pay him, or anyone else for that matter.

So I know some of you have started businesses with one cam, and eventually worked your way out. How did you do it?

I thought of marketing the less fortunate (people without much money) for now, so I'm at least getting paid something, and can eventually move forward.. Do you think that is a good idea?

Any help, advice, and tips are appreciated. I just feel like i'm stuck and can't move forward or charge much at all without two pro cams.

I too started with only one camera. A PDX-10, which is a pretty decent little camcorder. However, as you've already discovered it really is necessary to have a second camera. Since I didn't have the money to go out and buy another camera, I rented.

Check out your local area and see what is available for camera rentals. Then when you book a wedding, charge the client a deposit that covers the cost of the camera rental. This way you have two cameras and don't have to go spend a fortune to buy a second camera right now.

Good idea, why didn't I think of that earlier?! Okay the problem is, I don't think there is anywhere in my little town that rents 3 chip camcorders. I'm doing a search right now trying to find somewhere in a town nearby but I type it in, and for some reason, they keep giving me rental companies in florida or somewhere far away.

How should I type this in a search?

Generally how much is a 3chip camcorder cost to rent for a day or two?

Will it matter if the camcorder is unmanned..? I'd hate to leave the rental unmanned and have it stolen! So should I leave MINE unmanned? I'd hate to have mine stolen. I only say this because I know i won't always have someone to rely on to be my second videographer.

One other thought; if the b&g don't mind you moving around during the ceremony, you can shoot it as a music video. This is what we did. I felt like a total distraction, and probably was, but I got shots from every angle of the ceremony because I was not interested in continuity. I also did prep and reception, so I had great footage for the video. Of course it was a free gig, and I literally opened my first FX1 that day:

http://www.legacyhdv.com/shannonvid.htm

A music video is a GREAT marketing tool. It gives couples a sample of your style.

Years ago we all pretty much used 1 camera because that's all we could afford. Not miniDV but the OLD beta. OUCH! BUT the good news is we learned to shoot what we needed carefully.
Even today when I do my usual 2 cam gig and even sometimes 3 or 4 I also try to shoot as if I have the only camera there.what if the other(s) have a problem-or the shot gets blocked or the battery drops a cell and dies, or the tape snaps or any other of a hundrd different things that can go wrong.
It's not the number of cameras you use (we all get far too dependent on those others) it's the quality of work you do with what you have. I know a guy out east who gets far more money than I do - does 20 to 30 a year (thats all he needs to do at his prices) and uses 1 camera. Now I use the 2nd cam as a cover shot just in case only, UNLESS it's up front and has a really great shot of the B&G but in my area many churches won't let you put a camera on the altar or it's in such a bad spot that you might as well not even use it anyway. Frankly I'm tempted to go back to 1 camera coverage and be done with it. But that's me.
Don't worry about the number of cameras or if 1 is a 1 chip or what, concentrate on learning the craft - think about the shot not the tech side- make sure you get awesome audio and rock solid footage and tell the story of the day whether it's in doco form, jounalistic form or short usic video style-whatever you choose to be your style. Show the B&G GOOD quality work and they won't know or care how many cameras you have or used.
Don't get too hung up on the gear it changes every 6 months now it seems.
Just go forth and make knock-out video ;-)
Don

Gee,

I must be inadequate or just feel like a very bad videographer after reading this!

I've been videoing weddings professionally for 12 years now in Melbourne Australia and only ever used two cameras ONCE, and that was for a double wedding!

We do about 70 - 80 a year, and all my clients get my raw footage, and usually an edited highlights, depending on the amount they pay.

About 15% go for an unedited package. (just opening and closing credits, and some tightening up of gaps in the church etc).

Most of my work these days comes from recommendations or off my website.

If you only have one good camera, then shoot it as a single camera documentary style and you will get a very good result. Many of my brides really like our style as they see themselves as the stars, not necessarily my editing style.

Cheers Vaughan
www.vwvideo.com.au

Vaughn, you could do SO much more with a second person. Editing is more of a challenge, but you would be providing a more professional product. If it is working for you, and it sounds like it is, then no worries. We use three, and cannot imagine shooting with any less. We also serve brides with larger budgets.

Where do you position yourself?

I position myself at the front of the aisle for the bridal entrance then it varies a bit.
If it is in a small church with several rows of seats cut in from the rest of the rows (that is, there is a wider aisle at the front of the church), I'll reserve the first seat in the first full row (usually three rows from the front) on the groom's side so I'll have an uninterrupted view of proceedings, and for the vows I'll have more of the bride's face.

If I can't sit down I'll stand (or kneel) in the aisle for the vows, usually with the photographer beside me. I work with a monopod so I'm quite flexible.
For the readings and homily I'm usually at the side/front of the church.

Often in a bigger church after the homily when the priest gets the bride and groom the come to the altar for their vows, I'll slide in the front row where the groomsmen were sitting, and do the vows from there.

P.S. thank you for your private email Dana, I've sent you a reply.

Vaughan

So should I leave MINE unmanned? I'd hate to have mine stolen.

That will be one of your worries, ever heared the sound of a camera smashing against the ground because one of the guests or child fell over one of the legs of the tripod?
I work alone as well but have to admit that working with more camera's is allways a better option and can provide you with a better safetynet and more camera angles if you have limited time to shoot.
You only have to be prepared better if you go solo, I allways have a backup cam armed and ready in my backpack that I have on me all the time. The worst thing that can happen during a shoot is that you get a "cleaning tape" message in your viewfinder when you hit the rec button. Then you have 2 choices, you can use a tape cleaner or you can use your back up cam. Switching to my back up cam is faster in my case.
Working alone is therefore not a negative thing, you only have to think and work as if you were with 2 camera operators meaning very good preperation.
Also allways travel light, make sure that everything you need can be carried with you, I have a special vest with a lot of pockets, a manfrotto tripod which I can attach on me with a strap and as I mentioned before a backpack with a 2nd cam.
You have to be able to move quickly and be sure you have all your equipment with you, especially at the end of the ceremonie when the couple goes outside the church. NEVER leave your equipment behind because before you know it will be gone.
So just hire a decent camera to start with and calculate it in your price and buy a decent camera as soon as you can afford it, or just take a lone and buy one to start your business.
Anyway, wish you good luck with your business.

Rental in my area for a PD150/170 is $150.

I think my Bride is expecting nothing but a music video style video, but I wanted to give her more, at the beginning when I told her I had no way of getting the audio she was like "oh thats fine just put music on top of it"

Dana, do you still charge full price for a wedding music video? Or do you add extras to the cd to make it worth more? I like the concept of a music video, and although continuity isn't as important, i watched the video and it didn't seem like there was any continuity problems, it flowed smoothy.

On the subject of rental, so rental companies have insurance on their camareas in case it gets broken? Or do I put down a huge security deposit? Or do they make me pay in full? I'm assuming they have insurance, because obviously if I can't BUY a second cam and opt for renting, i wouldn't be able to pay for it if it got broken anyways, lol. Just a thought, please tell me they do have insurance so I'll have one less worry. I like to keep my camera attached to me, so I wouldn't want to leave mine unmanned and most likely the rental would go stationary in the back.

I should put a sign on the 2nd cam saying "be careful, don't trip, if you do, you can't try to sue me, because I have this warning sign!" lol.. just like mcdonalds marks their coffee cups "very hot!" so they don't get sued. lol. i don't know why i even brought that up? lol.

Jenna, I would want to sue *them* -- or at least get an apology. If I was playing football in the parking lot and smashed someone's window, I would feel obligated to pay for their window.

I started out with music videos only, and did five for free. It built me a portfolio, but every one of them wanted a whole lot more than the music video. Brides who don't hire videographers experience regret from the lost memories. If you were there, they will want everything they can get from you. Be prepared.

I flew back from vacation early to film a freebie for one of these brides, who was marrying at a resort that I wanted referrals from. I filmed the wedding and provided her three-camera, continuous ceremony coverage for free. I had only promised her that. I had also filmed before and after the wedding, but couldn't really use it. Because I did not edit and provide for her the additional footage she called the resort and complained that I had 'hijacked' her wedding and that she had 'hired' me and I was unprofessional. She called my home incessantly, leaving nasty messages for my wife to hear. Then more recently she threatened to sue me and report me to the Better Business Bureau. Because we didn't have our LLC ready, I finally abliged her and met her to give her the extra footage. She rolled up in a nice BMW and took the DVD, and I silently prayed for her new husband. She never paid me a dime, and I will never get a referral from the resort. (BTW, I swear she has mafia connections as well from who showed up at the wedding.)

On the subject of rentals, yes you are responsible for the camera if you damage or lose it. Just like any other rental, be it a car or what not. Some rental places offer insurance, just like cars incase of accidental damage.

Find a local rental place in your area and call to find out more details.

Years ago we all pretty much used 1 camera because that's all we could afford. Not miniDV but the OLD beta. OUCH! Don


What's Beta? Is that a hand crank video camera? :)

Heh, close Steven. I had a "grip" crank it for me ;-)

To all others, I admit that shooting with 2 or 3 cameras offers the opportunity to use some better angles but I don't agree it makes one more professional. After 24 years and over 1100 weddings I like to think I'm as professional as they get and produce a professional product, but that's not the point. Too many people depend on the 2nd or 3rd camera when they should be depending on the primary camera. Again, if the others crap out for whatever reason you've still got the weidding. Maybe not as creative but it's still there, solid as a rock and all the events of the ceremony covered.
As far as people tripping on a camera again in all the years I've NEVER had that happen. The 2nd camera is either on the altar OR in the balconey depending on the church and officiant. The few times it's been on the floor level I try to put it in a place next to a column or corner where I know noone would be sitting, standing or walking without having a real purpose to go into that area.
Jenna as for renting if you don't have insurance most companies can sell it to you for the duration of the rental. Without it IF something were to happen to the gear you are responsible.

Don

well that makes me weary about the insurance. I would figure that any company that rents things out has THEMSELVES covered. Dana, that woman sounds like a real jerk, how can someone complain when they are getting it for free? They should be grateful, and if anything ask politely for extra footage rather than harassing you. I'd hate to deal with someone like that, but i'm sure eventually i'll come across one, right? I have no idea when I am going to start charging, or if i'm even going to end up doing another wedding, after I get a demo made, I assume I should start a website or something, because I don't know if I'm going to get any work through refererrals for these two weddings, I don't have business cards either, and thats another thing I should probably take care of.

Happy 4th everyone! Looks like rain here so i don't think we'll be seeing any fireworks :(

Jenna, they do have themselves covered but since you are the one renting the gear and using it on whatever location for however long it is your responsiblity to insure it, just as when you rent a car on a trip. You provide insurance OR buy the insurance from the rental company. Whether its cars or cameras getting the insurance from the rental company is generally more costly than providing your own but if thats the only way you have to go, then thats what you do.
Most rental companies as part of their rental agreement say that you are responsible for the gear and IF something happens to it you pay for it. Thats why having insurance is such a good idea. A $50 premium (for example) is a lot less than $3000 to buy a camera for a rental company after the camera has been stolen and now you not only pay for the egar but you don't have the gear either. Bad way to go.
insurance is a pretty standard thing for renting gear.

Have a good 4th!
Don

Yeah, she caused us a lot of stress. Now when I see the bridezilla demon begin to manifest, I exorcise it by declining the booking. The trick is to discern it before she signs.

I've never rented anything, but I have hired a second cameraman when my wife was filming a ballet. That might be a possibilty as well. You'll spend more, but you will also have someone to give you referrals and someone you can use (or even hire) in the future. The product quality on your freebie videos equals your ability to win new brides.

The website is imperative unless you don't mind burning, labeling and sending DVDs all the time. You'll have to do that anyway, but it gets expensive and the looky-lous can view online. If you're on a Mac you can render some Flash videos and find a good flash template for your work. Photogs use these alot.

For business cards: vistaprint.com. Excellent customer service, prices and templates. I'd secure a business license, web URL and then cards.

If you're on a Mac you can render some Flash videos and find a good flash template for your work.

You can do that on a pc as well you know ;)

With a special $39.95 app and extra time to convert it, that's true. ;o)

Yeah i'm trying to figure out how to upload videos, or get a general idea of how to put them on a website (not using you-tube embedding)
When I decide to get a website should I higher a company to do all of the work for me? such as building it and putting the video on it for me, I've heard that you can .. like buy a streaming server, forgive me if I sound like i have no idea what i'm talking about, because I don't, but it's like paying for the service to host your videos, and they give you a certain amount of gig space, and then you can use the videos on your website, i'm not sure if there's a code provided or something like that, i've also heard theres a way you can have progessive downloads off of your website using wmp or quicktime, but i wouldn't know where to start.

I know I need to get insurance, if I may ask, what KIND of insurance do I need? Is there a certain company I should go through, will it cover all of my equipment and any liability i may have against people suing me or something?

Also, one more question, at what point do I have to.. whats the word... Well I know that if you run a business without informing the government you can get in trouble (taxes and stuff) .. What process it's called, I do not know, lol. I have read somewhere that until a certain point it is only considered a hobby that you are getting paid for, you have to make a certain amount of money until you have to begin filing taxes and what not. I'm not sure if that was a general article or if it only applies to a certain state, any information on this and resources would be greatly appreciated!

Yeah i'm trying to figure out how to upload videos, or get a general idea of how to put them on a website (not using you-tube embedding)
When I decide to get a website should I higher a company to do all of the work for me? such as building it and putting the video on it for me, I've heard that you can .. like buy a streaming server, forgive me if I sound like i have no idea what i'm talking about, because I don't, but it's like paying for the service to host your videos, and they give you a certain amount of gig space, and then you can use the videos on your website, i'm not sure if there's a code provided or something like that, i've also heard theres a way you can have progessive downloads off of your website using wmp or quicktime, but i wouldn't know where to start.


I use a blog like WordPress as my website. My vendor is bluehost.com.
As for video clip streaming, I use playstream.com

Playstream is only $10.00 per month and allows 1 gig of access for your videos and lets you store 50 megs of video for others to see.

As for insurance the minimum in my opinion is liability-usually 1 or 2 million. However to get that you generally are also buying theft insurance on the gear.
For example RVNuccio.com has online forms and you'll know right away how much it is for your gear and liability-others may do it over the phone or email or...Check out StateFarm, Firemans Fund Insurance and anyone else you can think of, just make sure they know you are using it not as a hobbyist but as a professional.

As for business stuff, like should I incorporate, be an LLC, S Corp, Sole Proprieter, do I need to file 1/4ly taxes, or what, here's my suggestion. Although we are all well meaning with business ideas go see an accountant and a lawyer that specialize in setting up small businesses as you want to do. Sometimes attorneys will give a consult either free or at minimal charge say $25.00 and then ask for a referral for an accountant or the other way around. Whichever -but DO seek professional help in those areas. WHY? Because it's your money and livelihood an believe after going thru an IRS audit about 30 years ago I don't want to do it again so I got a BETTER accountant. Every persons situation is different but the basic issue is the same. Legal protection of assests and proper payment of whatever monies have to be paid to our government.
Ask other people you know that own businesses who their lawyer and or accountant is get referrals from them and don't let anyone talk you out of seeing a lawyer or accountant. "Aw you don't need them, don't waste the money, you can do that yourself" Are they going to pay the back taxes, along with interest and penalities IF there is a mistake made? Will they support you IF for whatever reason you get sued by someone and your business gets tied up in court during a long drawn out law suit?
I'm not being negative just pragmatic and realistic. I've been in my own business for over 35 years and have either had it happen to me or someone close to me. Do it right and you'll live a much happier less stressful business life.
Good luck
Don

Jenna,

Don't be discouraged. I only have one camera (Canon XL2) and have done two weddings so far. Both were for free to build a portfolio (which is porbably why I'm not as stressed). I realize that I am going to have to come in cheaper than most in my area since I won't be able to offer the multiple cameras. I also don't have the experience/knowledge of most others but I am OK with that. We all have to start somewhere.

I feel like my first two weddings have given me a good base. Now I have a portfolio of video I can provide to paying customers. And I know that with each gig my video should get a little better, so my brides will see what I can do and know what they're getting into. I am just going to be very clear about what I can and cannot do and charge accordingly. Both my brides were happy to just have the ceremony documented, even though I had one angle straight down the aisle. I save the snappy stuff for before and after. They have more or less, just wanted a documentation of the actual ceremony.

Also, it seems like you are trying to compete with the big boys right off the bat. Neither of us can. I am choosing to go after the customer who has a lower budget/expectation than the high end customer. I won't be able to meet their needs yet so why kill myself trying? Just concentrate on doing each video a little better than the last, learn, save money and buy new equipment as funds provide.

You'll do great!

- Paul

thanks paul, very encouraging words. I actually thought i'd appeal to the people with a smaller budget at first anyways, so no, i'm not trying to compete with the big boys just yet, but still I would like to always have a second camera, the wedding I just did yesterday, I got stuck in a bad spot and couldn't really see the brides face as well as the grooms, and of course the focus should be on the bride, I felt terrible but there was no where I could move to even though i was given total freedom, to many obstacles in the way, people, the bridal party themselves would have been in the way had i chosen another spot.

But i just realized my back up camera was messed up during the entire shoot and its very pixelated on the right side, and it lags behind a few frames, so i can't use any of it unless NOTHING on the right side of the frame moved.. so that'll be just a few shots.. disappointing, which is why it would be great to have a GOOD second camera.

I'll keep pressing on though, hopefully i'll get a good demo out of the two weddings I have done, and see where I can go from there.

Since you are just organizing your business now, don't worry about the second cam. If you do more weddings for free, just make sure the folks know what the risk is.

If you take on jobs for money and enter contract, you will need some type of second cam at least as a backup. You can find a miniDV unit at some warehouse store like Sams Club or Costco.

When booking real jobs get some level of reservation fee. Keep your contract simple and direct, and don't overpromise. Use those first few deposits for the gear you need.

Pay particular attention to camerawork and audio, so you have to do less cleanup in editing. That way your camera tape is very close to a finished product, at least at this level.

Also steer clear of difficult jobs that you will not be able to do.

One other thought; if the b&g don't mind you moving around during the ceremony, you can shoot it as a music video. This is what we did. I felt like a total distraction, and probably was, but I got shots from every angle of the ceremony because I was not interested in continuity. I also did prep and reception, so I had great footage for the video. Of course it was a free gig, and I literally opened my first FX1 that day:

http://www.legacyhdv.com/shannonvid.htm

A music video is a GREAT marketing tool. It gives couples a sample of your style.

Dana I really liked the audio that you used on that clip .. where did you find that at?