Hi All,

First time poster here. I just picked up a HV10 last week, and 'love' it so far. Looking forward to learning a lot of new techniques from this forum. I'm a wedding photographer, but I've got video experience in my past.

I ended up picking up my HV10 for $600cdn, which I think is quite the score!

My first question, is in regards to the miniSD slot. Can this camera take a microSD card in a adapter?

I ended up picking up a Kingston 2GB microSD, but when I put it in the adapter, and put it in the slot, I get an error. Even when I 'INITIALIZE' it, I still get an error.

I searched around, but couldn't find anything in regards to microSD compatibility. TIA!

What's the exact model of Kingston 2GB microSD card?

Yes, microSD, miniSD and SD are electrically compatible.

The gottcha is often at the firmware/software level of the device that uses the cards. The SD standard is constantly changing, and some devices are coded more rigidly than others that anticipate changing subversions. Sometimes the flexible approach works in your favour, while other times it can screw you. Unless explicitly supported, you do *not* want to waste money on an SDHC card.

I've been using an ATP SD Trio Pro (http://flash.atpinc.com/products/view.php?product_id=1366) 1GB card with my HV20. It might work with HV10, but I'd recommend trying it out first, just to be sure.

Andrew, thanks for your response.

From the packaging it says the following:

SDC/2GB-2ADP

Some other info listed:

AC: VJ11441-00054466
LK: F606 GCD - 2760720S

Ok, found the datasheet here (http://www.kingston.com/flash/sd_micro_adpt.asp?id=2).

A couple more questions. Did you get the microSD card brand-new or used? Have you tried formatting it on a Mac/PC by way of a USB adaptor yet?

If new, may be worth following up with Kingston directly or the store you bought it from. If used, could be a little too used.

If it formats ok on a Mac/PC (FAT32 disk type), try doing some low-level scans on the microSD card for bad bits.

Ok, found the datasheet here (http://www.kingston.com/flash/sd_micro_adpt.asp?id=2).

A couple more questions. Did you get the microSD card brand-new or used? Have you tried formatting it on a Mac/PC by way of a USB adaptor yet?

If new, may be worth following up with Kingston directly or the store you bought it from. If used, could be a little too used.

If it formats ok on a Mac/PC (FAT32 disk type), try doing some low-level scans on the microSD card for bad bits.

Hey, thanks again!

Yup, I bought it brand new. I did put it in my computer to see if it works out of the package, and it worked fine. I just put it back in my computer, and i'm formating it, just to see if that helps. (It showed FAT, so I'm making it FAT32).

Is there actual documentation that the HV10 has no problems with microSD?

edit: So I tired using the card after I formatted it, and same problem.

FWIW, I too had problems with the MiniSD card - had one Sandisk puchased online that I now suspect might have been a grey market knockoff, but it looked IDENTICAL to the next one (also Sandisk) I purchased locally (at an office supply chain) that worked just fine...

The one that wouldn't work in the cam registers on my computer... so there's some strangeness going on.

Yeah I can't be bothered to buy online (hint ebay hint) due to the amount of crappy fake cards out there. I only by from known local retailers, so I know i'm not going to run into that problem.

Dave you mentioned 'miniSD'. Did you mean 'microsD'?

Yeah, things are going to be a more flexible when using it in the computer because the little USB dongle does the interfacing. The computer just sees it as any ol' USB storage device and uses the generic USB driver accordingly.

Unless there are firmware upgrades available for the HV10 (someone else here may know), you may be stuck returning that card and bringing your HV10 along to find something that works.

...Or the reason you only had to pay $600 was because of a problem with the miniSD card slot. It's still a new enough gadget that you may be able to get it fixed by Canon under warranty.

Hmmm yeah I didn't think to even look into firmware upgrades. I'll do that tonight. Well the HV10 that I bought was a store return. Otherwise in mint condition. The open box price was $810. It had everything in the box. In their clearance display there was another HV10 with a big scratch on the side of it, and nothing else (no box, cables, etc) for $599. I told them (futureshop) to match the price to that one. After a little ho and hum, they agreed to do it. So because of that I also bought their extended warrenty.

Now some of you may be like 'OMG, Futureshop and extended warrenty?! Are you nuts?!" Not really. I've dealt with them enough that I know how to get things done. I was also assured by a manager there (also have it hand-written) that if 'anything' was to go wrong that Canon couldn't fix, then they (FS) would upgrade me to the newest model (ie: HV20).

But my first step is to take my HV10 into a store and test out another microSD, and if that doesn't work, then try out a miniSD. I'll let you know how it all pans out.

I believe there are three "SD" card sizes - 'regular' SD, about the size of a big postage stamp, the miniSD that the HV20 takes (not sure about which one the 10 takes), and then the microSD, that seems to be a cell phone (Like my Razr) item. I guess as technology shrinks they have to continue to shrink the memory cards/sticks - I think I saw Sony had a new memory stick smaller than the duo...

Dave you mentioned 'miniSD'. Did you mean 'microsD'?

... test out another microSD, and if that doesn't work, then try out a miniSD.

Sorry but I'm not following you here. Mini SD and Micro SD are two different things altogether. The Canon HV10 and HV20 camcorders take Mini SD only. A Micro SD card wouldn't fit. I suppose there might be such a thing as a Mini-to-Micro adapter but I've never seen one and they can't be very easy to find. See attached pics to get an idea of how different they are. The only thing they have in common is the full-size SD adapter that comes with each card.

I suppose there might be such a thing as a Mini-to-Micro adapter but I've never seen one and they can't be very easy to find.Oops -- okay so maybe they're easier to find than I suspected. I just checked Andrew Plumb's link (above) to ATP Inc.'s SD Trio: http://flash.atpinc.com/products/view.php?product_id=1366

And there it is, a Micro SD card with both Mini and Full SD adapters. So I stand corrected. However I have yet to see such a combo in any of the homogeneous brick 'n' mortar retailers such as WalMart, Target, BestBuy, etc. Thanks for the link Andrew,

There are adapters for microSD to miniSD to SD

http://www.tech2.com/media/images/img_3312_microsd_adapters_pack_450x360.jpg

Yep, that ATP adapted microSD card is the exact one I'm using with my HV20 so I know it works in my case. The HV10 being an older model though, it wouldn't be the first time I've seen things get funky with using newer cards in older gear.

Seeing as the HV10 was bough from FS, and most "sales reps" there tend to be of the utterly-clueless-commissioned sort... Here's to hoping you convince them to upgrade it to an HV20, Amish! ;-)

The picture that bert posted is the exact one I have (cept I have the 2g).

I ended up getting another one from the store I purchased to make sure the card wasn't bad. Still got a card error.

So I went and bought a actual 1gb miniSD card (no adapter). Guess what? Card error. So it seems like there is a problem with the card port.

So, now to see if futureshop will hold up to what they said. Unless they can find a card that works in this camera (both cards I've tried are Kingston brand), then I'm guessing a upgrade to a HV20 is in order.

I'll post up info as it comes.

Well I figured I'd call up FS customer service before going in. They opened a file for me, and told me to call Canon first before going into FS. I'll call Canon tomorrow and see what they say.

I figured I'd post up whats been happing, just to keep a log incase this happens to someone in the future.

Well I knew it would be a bit of a hassle with FS, but thats the fun of it as well right?

Called up canon, spoke to a nice rep there. He said I did all the testing by using two different cards, and trying them out. He said there are two places to send that camera to, either Canon in Calgary, or another place somewhere in Surrey. I went to the FS in richmond instead, and spoke to the lady there. She gave me the run around (not wanting to deal with it) and gave me a number of local places to call. I told her that I already spoke with Canon and they said there were TWO places only that could fix it, but she was sure that there was local places. I took her word for it (it was sunday) and on monday, called the places, which of course, one didn't exist, and the other only fixes DIGITAL cameras.

Its been a busy month with weddings for me (I shoot weddings/photography), but I finally got around to going into the original FS today. Why?

Well sometime in the last week or two, I spoke with FS customer service that deals with their product plan. After carefully going thru the fine print, it seems as though IN THE CASE that they do REPLACE my camera with another one, that my extended warranty is gone. WTH? I just bought the camera in June, and to have the $200 gone down the drain because of a fault the camera had WHEN I initally purchased it? I don't think so. Also the guy I bought it from WROTE on my receipt that the replacement warranty is valid thru-out the whole 3 years, and never explained that it would be gone if the camera was replaced. Anyways the guy on the phone said to speak with someone at the original store to have them 'emend' it specifically for me.

So I went to the original store today, and spoke with someone there, who pretty much 'pushed' that point aside for the time being. He said lets first send it to Canon and see first if they want to replace it, OR fix it, and go from there. Also the original salesperson I bought it of wasn't working today, and he said that he would be able to most likely honor my replacement warranty for the whole 3 years, so I would not need to REPURCHASE the warranty if I did get a replacement.

Phew, I bet that makes no sense? :P

So anyways they took the camera, and only the camera (they didn't even want the original box, which kinda scares me), and said it may take about 2-3 weeks.

I'll update down the road once I find out what goes on.

So I spoke with FS today, as its been a month to find out the situation on my camera, and they said that Canon has fixed the camera, and will be sending it back. So hopefully it should be back this week, and we'll see how it runs.

Have you received your replacement? Did they fix it? I am having the same problem with mine.

Nope, still waiting for it to come back to FS. I'm starting to think they are BS'in. Regular mail doesn't take this long from Calgary -> Vancouver.

I'm probably NOT going to call however. Hopefully if it takes 2 more weeks, it'll be 60 days since they had it, which means new camera for me.

Bleh, so FS called me today finally, saying that the camera is back.

so the story continues.

Picked up my camera yesterday, battery was dead, so I couldn't test it in store.

Charged it over night, and went to test it out today.

1) There is a piece of hair inside the glass element in the optics. This was not there when I sent it in.
2) The reason I sent the camera in the first place was because the miniSD wasn't working. The service report from Canon states they replaced the RIGHT PCB board. I go to put a miniSD card in the slot, and it won't go in. WTH right?

There is a PIECE of black PLASTIC covering the slot in the inside. It won't budge. SO again my camera must go BACK to canon. This is becoming a joke for a camera I bought end of June, and has been at Canon since mid July.

more story time ;)

So I called FS today while at work to speak with a manager, but they were busy, and said one would call me back (yeah right). Of course I didn't get a call back, so in the evening I went down.

I went to the CS desk and asked the girl for her manager, I said it'd be easier that way. So he comes, and I explain the issue, saying I just picked up my camera 2 days ago, but couldn't test it out instore, as the battery was dead.

Long story short I tried to tell him that if they send it back to Canon this should be within the first 60 day time limit, as its the same/similar problem, that the miniSD slot doesn't work. He said that if they send it back, it would be starting a new 60 days. BS!

He kept being sympathetic, however refused to budge. So I told him that I called the PSP (product service plan, where I have my extended 3 yr warrenty) and they said to take it into the store where they would be able to make sure it stays in the same 60 day period.

He goes, there is a very slim chance, and started bringing up how the PSP is not futureshop and a 3rd party insurance company, trying to blame them. I told him when they sell the PSP, they sell it as a FUTURESHOP EXTENDED warranty. He was just trying to get around the fact.

So I told him to call the PSP up and see what they have to say. He got another rep (CSR manager) some young girl to come out from the back to make the phone call. She called them infront of me saying that they told a customer to come in to get a exchange. At this point the manager was gone, so I stopped her there and asked if she knew what the issue was, she said no. So with the PSP rep on the phone I re-explained to her the problem here, and that if the camera is going back to Canon, is should be within the initial 60 exchange warranty as it was never fixed since I first sent it off. After a few minutes of chatting on the phone, she got off, and said "yes you're right".

She did say they still did have to send it away (back to Canon), and IN the case that the camera is not back in my hands by the 18th (or at least back in the store) then to call PSP and they will go ahead to process the exchange.

So that leaves till next thursday. If I don't hear from FS, I get a new camcorder. The funny thing here, is I've spent more time dealing with this issue than actually using the camcorder :P

(is anyone actually reading this, or should I stop posting about this issue?).

Yes, people are reading it, and, well, what can they say?

Hey, you took a punt and it seems to be going completely "t**s up". What recourse you have in Canada is beyond me.

My recollection of the place was that if there was a serious issue, they would fire the staff responsible, have the manager hanged (publicly), replace whatever with new (their cost) and take out full page adverts in the local press to appologise for their s***w up.

Seems to have changed since I was there.

Perhaps a lesson to be learnt here - Caveat Emptor.

Cheap is good. Super cheap is asking for it.

Ergo, if it's too good a deal to turn up, it's too good a deal, full stop.

No help to you, of course, but what can we say?

Good luck and I (we) hope there is a happy outcome. Just don't do it again!.


CS

Yup, still following the thread. FS isn't exactly known for their customer service, eh?

Here's to hoping you get a new camera for all your troubles!

Heh, thanks for the comments guys. Just wasn't sure if anyone was reading or not :P

Well its technically been 62 days since I first sent in the camera. No word from FS yet. I'll call their 1800 tomorrow evening and start the process. We'll see how they try and screw me now :P

So I ended up calling FS 1800 on the friday (31th) and spoke to a rep there and explained the problem. At first he said to deal with the store, but once I spoke with him about the issue, he said he can deal with it. In total I was on the phone for about 35 minutes. Over half the time he had me on hold. In the end, he said that he's forwarded the issue to his supervisor, who would call me back on Monday on how the exchange would be handled.

Of course Monday comes and goes with no phone call. I called on Friday (oct 5th) and spoke with another rep. He looked at my account, and said that a supervisor did look at the account, and approved the exchange. I asked why I didn't get a call back, and he said that there was no notes to call me back, so I asked how was I to know that I was going to get a exchange then?! ??

Anyways, he went ahead and started up the exchange for me. He did have to send a note to Canon depot to have them send the camera back to the store before I can get the exchange done.

I clearly asked him about the exchange process and how it works. I explained to him that the HV10 is no longer manufacture or carried by FS, and the next model is the HV20 which is several hundred more. He says that as per the PSP agreement, it is a FEATURE TO FEATURE exchange, in which they must give something of EQUAL feature or BETTER. He said regardless of the price difference, if the HV20 is the next model up that is the one they will have to exchange me to.

I looked at FS HD camcorders and there are cheaper ones (Sony models) however none of them record to miniDV, so I'm hoping i'm in luck getting the HV20.

So I decided to call FS today to see if the camera was in yet since I hadn't heard from them. Go figure they say the camera is in. 1 hour later I get a phone call saying that the camera is in.

So after work I head down with all my papers in hand. The lineup at the CS desk was insane. I waited 20 minutes. When I finally got a rep to talk with I explained to her that I was doing a warranty exchange. I handed her a piece of paper with the exchange reference number given from PSP.

She goes over to the computer on the back wall and looks things up. At that point a manager (call him Manager1) comes by. She calls the back (warehouse) and asks them to bring the camera up to the front. She mentions something to the manager and he comes up to me and looks over some of the papers, then looks over at the computer monitor. He goes okay, so we don't have any miniDV cameras, but we can give you a DVD one. I tell him I don't want a DVD camcorder, I want a miniDV one. He walks away without saying anything.

The rep from the warehouse brings out the camcorder, and the first rep helping me out, opens up the package, and pulls out the forms. Heres the FIRST interesting thing.

Looking at the paperwork, I see they NEVER sent the camera to Canon. All this time they kept telling me they did (Canon in CALGARY) however it was sent to some authorized dealer in Surrey. The DATE IN at that dealer says Sept 24th, and date STARTED was Sept 26th. Ie: already over the 60 days.

Manager1 comes back and says to the rep give him a instore credit, he doesn't want a DVD camcorder and we don't have a miniDV one. So I say excuse me, and he says we'll give you a instore credit, we don't have a miniDV camcorder. So I tell him 'yes you do, you have the HV20'. His response is that it is not the same camera its a 1080P and the HV10 is a 1080i. I laugh inside.

EXCUSE me? No its not. He assures me that it is. I tell him to go and bring the box here and I'll prove to him that its NOT. So he walks away.

While he goes away the rep calls up PSP to confirm the exchange. While on the phone she gives the TAG number but not the exchange reference number, so I tell her, I HAVE the number here (it was in her hands). So she then gives the number to them, and they have to email her the authorization. But her email doesn't work, so she gets it emailed to another manager (manager2) there.

The email comes in, and manager2 gives it to her. She then asks me to wait and she walks away. Then over the PA system I hear her voice and she's calling manager2 to the 'staff room'. I turn around and see him walking there, and I also see manager1 walking towards that room. So I patiently wait for another few more minutes.

She eventually comes, with manager1. He comes to the desk and opens up my HV10 box, and goes thru all the contents, and matches it up with the manual to make sure everything is there. Then he walks away. Then out of nowhere (I was preoccupied watching him) the rep pulls out a brand new HV20 box and puts it on the counter. She starts typing away on the computer and printing out receipts, etc etc.

Then she goes 'okay, your $200 warranty is fulfilled, and you have the option to purchase another one'. AHH no. I tell her no, and she says yes its fulfilled. I advise her again to call PSP and that I have a recording on my phone from my cellphone call with PSP (I did record my phone call) and the rep EXPLAINED it clearly that because it is covered under the 1yr warranty of the manufacture that the extended warranty doesn't get fulfilled. She shows me the email that PSP had sent her and says that I'm getting a 'mint' condition camera not a 'open box' like my HV10. I said thats REGARDLESS of the issue and so is the price, thats the reason I PURCHASED the warranty because as they so stuff down your ears when you make any purchase that its totally covered. So I tell her I don't care, you call them.

So of course she picks up the phone and makes her second call. She explains the issue. A few 'ah huh, yup, okay, yes' then she hangs up and says 'ok'.

Now she goes well the $199 only covered your purchase on the HV10 because it was purchased at $599, the HV20 cost is $1200, so you have to pay the difference. I ask her what the difference in warranty is, and she says $60. At this point I had been in the store for 1 hour, so I just say YES I'll pay it.

Funny enough, while she was on the phone with PSP the 2nd time manager1 walks by and briefly looks over everything, but doesn't say one thing. I think he was moreso wondering why I was only going to be paying $60 extra.

Anyways, so we complete the transaction and I tell her that I'm sorry, I don't mean to be a hardass (I wasn't at all, I was super calm) but I told her I've been without my camera for 3 months. She says she understands and that she doesn't get effected by it?

So after we're done, I walk to the desk on the way out for them to bag my camera, and demag it. Thats when I noticed I had her pen in my hand. So I run back to her desk to give her the pen. She had her back towards me, and she was talking with manager1 who was saying 'why did he only pay $60!?' So she tells him that BECAUSE of 'THEIR' rules if its under the first year, then the extended warranty is NOT considered fulfilled.

I pass her the pen, and walk out with a brand new HV20 on charge!

So 3 months later was it worth it? Yes/no? Hmm hard to say. The HV10 was a great camera, and would of still been perfect for me, but the HV20 is so much nicer!

I still however will be writing a proper letter and mailed it to FS head office. Their system is so backwards. The store was doing EVERYTHING in its power NOT to give me a camera (just as I had suspected) whereas PSP gave me the truth. For the manager to say 'give him a store credit'. DO you think thats what I wanted? I didn't wait 3 months for nothing, Otherwise I would of done that right from the start.

For him to say that the HV20 is a 1080p and not 1080i, wow. He really needs to do some research. And to thing out of all of that I never got ONE 'we're sorry'. It was almost like pulling teeth from them. So time to RTM, and have some fun once the camera is charged.

Hope you guys enjoyed the story. If anything else comes from this i'll make sure to still write up here. This has been my 'journal' throughout this whole mess.

So I ended up posting my story on the Future Shop Forums (http://futureshopforums.com/futureshop/board/message?board.id=offtopicandfeedback&thread.id=2131).

Low and behold, I got a email from one moderator on the forum (who works at the Best Buy/FS HQ). He is going to get a CSR rep that responses directly to one of the presidents at the Canadian HQ to contact me about the issue, so we'll see what happens. I'm just glad to see that sometimes our voice is heard.

Nicely done! It took three months, but you got the better camera out of it.

Now you can spend all that money you saved on accessories. ;-)

Nicely done! It took three months, but you got the better camera out of it.

Now you can spend all that money you saved on accessories. ;-)

Haha, true. I think if anything I want a mic to run on the hotshoe. Maybe its just me but I find the camera itself quite noisy. I'm thinking about the DM-50, unless someone can recommend else wise.