I'm starting out as a wedding videographer and I'm doing my first wedding tomorrow. I'm going to pick up a wireless mic system today and I'm thinking about getting either the Azden WMS-Pro or the Nady VHF Wireless. I can't really afford a high end quality mic system right now. Does any one have any advice on which I should buy. My setup for the wedding is one camera at the back of the aisle and one at the altar. I want to be able to get good audio from the priest, the bride, and the groom. I know I will be micing the groom. But I'm wondering if I should mic the priest as well with a second lavalier. Any advice? btw, time is sort of an issue here. thanks all.

Check with the soundman to see if he can record a mix for you. I have done two weddings so far and in both cases, the sound man was able to burn a CD of the mix off the board. You obviously don't want to trust this as your only source of audio but as many different sources as possible is good.

Search these boards and you will find *a lot* of info that is useful. I avoided a wireless and bought an iRiver with a squid mic and it's been great so far, and only cost me $50 total.

I agree with Paul...

I would go with the iRiver setup. I have the Azden dual channel wireless mics and they work fine when there is no interference but you never know when something will kick in. iRivers are cheap and work great. The sound guy is hit or miss on most occassions. Paul is lucky to find someone at both weddings that knew what they were doing and could even provide him with a CD recording.

My advice - get the iRivers and in time purchase a nice wireless system to use for the reception and other events throughout the day.

Hi Trent -

I've used the Azden WMS, it's OK, but I'd mic to the front cam - less distance between xmitter and reciever is better - don't expect a lot of range. You might also see if the AudioTechnica VHF system (pro88 or something like that - can't recall offhand) is available - a bit bigger, but better built, and seems to be a tad cleaner.

House sound is good IF you have a good sound guy - had a couple guys hand me casette tapes... yuk. I always pack a CD-R just in case, figure maybe I'll get lucky one day!

I've also got some iRivers picked up cheap on Ebay, will be trying them tomorrow to get the hang of them - good quality of recording, and no interference.

Main thing about sound is having a few sources - someone ALWAYS moves out of the expected mic range...

sweet, thanks for the advice all. i picked up a wms-pro system for $187 yesterday and I will definitely look into getting some cheap irivers online.

My advice DON'T GO WIRELESS! I just finished a wedding last week using an Azden system. Everything worked out prior to the ceremony, the groom steps out on stage and boom, the wireless cuts out. SOB! Luckily it cut back in, then out, then in, then out. They're just not dependable with something so critical.

Which iRiver system is it that you bought, and where did you buy it?

I use the iRiver IFP-890s (5 of them) with giant squid mics. works like a charm. i got mine off ebay from some guy in Australia. i think they were like $35 a piece with $80 shipping. not cheap but well worth it in my opinion.

i too own the infamous Azden dual channel mic system and the same thing happens to me all the time. very frustrating because you can't see any RF level meter while checking to see if the channel is clear or not. all you got to go by is a red/green led to tell you the channel is clean....or clean for that time i should say.

Hi Guys,

I'm in ireland & I've never heard or seen an iRiver! Like many others I was looking into wireless mics, but they are extremely exspensive over here for a decent setup. I do not see the sense in buying cheap wireless mics when they may pick up interferance.

As a total novice, am I correct in saying that you use iRivers, which are basically a recording device (similar to an mp3 / ipod??), hook a mic up to it & leave the groom have it for the ceremony - then sync up the audio from it in post?

Cheers,
Alan

Correct Alan - the iRivers that can record are no longer in production but you can still find them online. Any iRiver model series from IFP-7xx | IFP-8xx | IFP-9xx will work. They are actually MP3 players that have a few advanced features. Mine can tune in FM stations and can even record which FM station i am listening to. I usually put them all together and start recording on each one. i will then clap to set a decent point at which to sync them. then you can go mic up the groom/pastor/podium mic/speaker(i've even taped a mic to the speakers to get a house mix when the sound guy wouldn't give me one from the board).

Even expensive wireless mics can/will drop out during the ceremony. when you set the mic channel and its clear...it doesn't mean that it will always be clear. at any point something else is using that channel or close to it you will start to get interfernce, and the only way to fix that is to manually change the frequency you are working off.

Thanks Zach, I think this will be a much better way to go, safer anyhow as you will not get any interferance.

BTW, I think the product codes may differ over here in Europe, I can only seem to find a iRiver Clix 2 - which allows recording, however, I think this maybe recording via a built in mic on the actually iRiver, more investigation required!!

im also from ireland alan, come on the paddys.
so zach, do these irivers allow you to set/monitor levels and if not how does that aspect work out?
i was thinking of waiting for the new zoom h2 but if a cheaper device will allow me do the same thing then why not.
also my creative zen nano has a line in. can i use some sort of pre-amp for a mic to make this work?

My concern about iRivers is the hassle of synching them up with video and whether their output will stay in sync over the course of a lengthy wedding ceremony. Those of you using them regularly at weddings, how well is that working out for you? Does the audio stay in sync or does it start to drift a few frames after several minutes of continuous recording?

Since your video camera is going to record some kind of audio anyway it might as well be something decent, and that typically means using a wireless mic. I started out with a cheap Azden VHF wireless kit and quickly upgraded that to Samson UHF models, which did okay for a while but were never quite what I hoped for. I recently purchased a Sennheiser Evolution G2 setup for about $500 and feel like I finally have a wireless mic which works well: the sound is clearer than I ever had with the cheaper units and so far it seems to be pretty consistent. Given how much most of us spend on our video cameras it's kind of silly not to spend a reasonable amount on sound equipment, since good audio is a critical aspect of a successful video.

I have one iRiver but have never comfortably incorporated it into my wedding workflow. Plus the controls are so odd that I have to read the instruction manual every time I get it out to remember how to erase old files and make sure it's set properly for a new event. Has anyone found a similarly convenient recorder with more standardized controls? Seems like the iRiver is the most popular solution lately, but surely there must be something else?

like you I use a sennheiser G2. Great microphgone, and I have had NO problems with it as compared to the cheap pieces of crap I used when I was in college. When I was in college one of my buddies talked me into using his MiniDisc Recorder for my critical audio, and after jacking with it in post for 2 weeks, I found it to be too much of a hassle to be worth it. I kind of feel the same way about the iRiver after that experience, so I have never tried them, the wireless receivers I have now are just much easier to work.

you can control the record level within the iRiver itself. choose either line or mic level and then there is even a record level control for each. the menus/buttons aren't that hard to get used to (especially for the price), and for the issues on syncing them in post you can even take it a step further to make it easier. i said earlier that i clap or do something that can spike the mics to easily sync them all. you could start your camera record and stand infront of it capturing you clapping for the mics and this way you will visually be able to see this happen as well. i don't do this but if need be it would work.

I still use a wireless mic on the groom and typically try to get a feed from the sound guy into my camera. i'm a huge believer in that you can never have too many audio sources for back-up purposes.

I think I should put in a good word for the MiniDisc recorder. Their day has passed because of MP3, but because of this they're stupidly cheap and they make great recorders.

My Sony MZ-R900 is the size of 3 MiniDisc cases and that includes the internal battery. It slips into the groom's inside pocket and I'm safe in the knowlegde that it's hard wired, will record at full fidelity for 2.5 hours and there's no interferring with the minister's radio mic.

I love it. It may be a wee bit more hassle syncing up on the timeline, but once there all is well. I use radio mics as well, but you can never have too much audio backup.

tom.

Seems like the iRiver is the most popular solution lately, but surely there must be something else?
The IRivers ahve been a popular solution for quite some time actually. but their time is running out, as the IFP7XX/8XX series recorders are no longer being manufactured. Most of the units you will find lately on ebay are refurbished.

The up and coming recoders for event work lately seem to be the Edirol R09/Zoom H4 etc. whcih take SD media cards (up to 2-4 GB) and can record at higher bitrates than the IRivers. And the H4 which is larger than the R09 has bakanced XLR inuputs with 48v phantom power. The R09 is about the size of a deck of cards and is rock solid. I won both.

While both units are more expensive than the IRivers, they are much more robust, professional, and reliable units. Oh BTW, both units also have pretty good built in stereo mics if needed.

And also BTW, Zoom has a smaller sibling to the H4 called the H2 which should be available for delivery sometime in August (I have one on pre-order). Thhe H2 will have 3 built in mic elements and can simulate 5.1 surround sound using the 3 mic elements. It will have mic/line inputs, recordable SD card ability, mic effects, preamps. And will only retail for $199. That's basically the same price as the largest IRiver units were.

Even, if worst, it's an average unti, it should be far and away a better unit than the IRivers.

The small IRiver units were good in their day, but their day has passed. May they rest in peace.
And please lets put all talk and sicussion of them behind us. Compressed MP3 audio sucks. Uncompressed 24/96 is where its at.

im also from ireland alan, come on the paddys.
so zach, do these irivers allow you to set/monitor levels and if not how does that aspect work out?
i was thinking of waiting for the new zoom h2 but if a cheaper device will allow me do the same thing then why not.
also my creative zen nano has a line in. can i use some sort of pre-amp for a mic to make this work?


Hi Ger

Im going for the zoom h2 got it on order from, here's the link >>>
http://www.thomann.de/gb/zoom_h_2.htm

I'll let you know how I get on with it, when it arrives.

Regards
Wayne

I am just getting into the wedding videography business. I did a lot of research on this website when trying to decide on how to capture good audio. I made the decision to go with the iRiver with squid mic. I am so glad I did. I was looking at the G2 wireless setup also. But the iriver was literally 10x cheaper. Sure it's an MP3 format. But the quality trade off is minimal as compared to price. And besides, is your customer really going to notice/care? I just downloaded my audio a few days ago and was really happy with the quality. Its getting harder and harder to find iRivers that will record line-in, but heck, get em while you can. I'll probably go with the G2 setup in the future when I have an extra $500 to blow.

I use a pair of Olympus DS-30's with lavier (sp) mics. They work great, and get much better sound than the Azden wireless system I used in the past.

I've also been convinced after reading the different threads to get an mp3 recorder so I've ordered 2 irivers and the squid mics. Luckly there is a guy in Sydney who seems to have heaps of the ifp 890s on ebay, anyone in australia can get them cheap. I payed AU$130 for the 2 including shipping.

I've recieved my iRiver.. now just need the lapels, hope they get here in a week.
One question is where do people position the iriver on the groom as its a little bit bulky so it might show a bit of buldge in the pants/jacket pocket? or is it not that noticable.

I haven't used a mp3/wave recorder myself at weddings, but I wonder about this: aren't you nervous about getting audio when you can't monitor it during recording? With a wireless you can at least listen to what - and if - you get (and adjust the level).

I have a second question and that is how big the risk is of interference. I am planning to record with a rented wireless lav in a church where there is already a wireless system (that goes into a audio console). The rented set would be a Sony WRR/WRT 805 system. Anybody has used this and have anything wise to say? I have searched about the frequencies but haven't found much, I guess the best is to test it (but since I rent it for a day it won't be easy).

Peter - that's why I still love the diminutive MiniDisc recorder. It is tiny and slips into any pocket without a causing a bulge. The 'hold' feature ensures that once set into the record mode nothing can stop it (apart from those in the know). It's a hard-wired mic, and although I'm a lover of radio mics, the Minidisc gives me complete confidence, such that the lack of monitoring is not a problem.

The (black) mic cable goes through the groom's top jacket buttonhole and I use a tiny safety pin to keep the wire behind the fold of the lapel. Black mic just behind the top of the lapel so it's on the 'bride's side'.

In fact the audio is so clean that it sounds slightly false in the long shots of the church, and I invariably have to mix in room reverb from my on-camera mic for realism - which of course effectively degrades the audio to some extent.

tom.

I am using Olympus DS-30 voice recorder ($130) and it works very well.
It has 50Hz - 19kHz frequency response and for voice recording at the wedding video is more than enough.
It is easy to operate and is very small.
I plugged in a lappel mic from my wireless system and it works great.
It is safest method to record important audio , i stopped using wireless at the wedding ceremony.

I haven't used a mp3/wave recorder myself at weddings, but I wonder about this: aren't you nervous about getting audio when you can't monitor it during recording? With a wireless you can at least listen to what - and if - you get (and adjust the level).

I plug in headphones when I first hit record. This allows me to check levels and make sure everything is on the up and up. But you're right, if something goes wrong mid-ceremony, you won't know until it's too late. But what can you really do about it anyway? Again, the key seems to be multiple sources of good audio. And I don't find the unit too bulky. I have the 880 and it's quite small. I just have the groom put it in his jacket pocket.

the key seems to be multiple sources of good audio.

Well put, Paul. You can never have too much backup.

I am using Olympus DS-30 voice recorder ($130) and it works very well.
It has 50Hz - 19kHz frequency response and for voice recording at the wedding video is more than enough.
It is easy to operate and is very small.
I plugged in a lappel mic from my wireless system and it works great.
It is safest method to record important audio , i stopped using wireless at the wedding ceremony.

I got my DS-30's at B&H for $119 each, FYI.

... I recently purchased a Sennheiser Evolution G2 setup for about $500 and feel like I finally have a wireless mic which works well: the sound is clearer than I ever had with the cheaper units and so far it seems to be pretty consistent. Given how much most of us spend on our video cameras it's kind of silly not to spend a reasonable amount on sound equipment, since good audio is a critical aspect of a successful video.

It's been said that audio is 51% of any good video.

I'll have to vouch for the Sennheiser G2 systems. I have 3 of them now. I usually put one on the groom, another one on the officiate, and the 3rd one get's connected to the "record out" of the venue's sound board if possible. Why the "record out" you may wonder? Because it's a constant level, and if the sound guy cranks up the PA, it won't make any difference with your recording levels. I've been using the Azden cam-3 mixer to mix the 3 sound sources at the camera, and monitoring the mix from the camera's headphone out jack. The mixer is small, and doesn't require any power. It has 3 each 1/8" inputs, and one 1/8" stereo output which gets connected to my camera's mic input switched to mic level. (Sony VX2100 camera) Channel 1 is right audio, channel 2 is left audio, and channel 3 goes to both Left and right channels. So, I can keep the groom and officiant on their own separate channels, and only turn up the 3rd input when needed.

If I can't get an output from the venue's sound system, I'll get my 3rd sound source by sticking the plug on transmiter (which was part of the Sennheiser G2 wireless kit) to a - Cardioid Handheld Dynamic Microphone, and stick that mic on a stand in front of the venue's PA speaker to capture any readers, vocals, or musicians which the venue has miked. If I can put the mic in front of the pa speaker (say for instance, the speakers or mounted on the ceiling) then I'll try to sit that mic on a stand at the podium and hope for the best.

I've been really happy with my Seenheiser wireless mics for the past 2/3 years now. Im getting ready to embark on a new adventure in the area of audio for my video, which will be independent of my camera. With the purchase of the Edirol R4 I'll be able to record 4 separate channels of audio in one uncompressed WAV file at 96kHz 24 bit. I'll still use my Sennheiser wireless mics, (and various other wired mics) but instead of hooking them up to the camera, they'll be conncted to the R4. I'll be able to monitor the R4's output via wireless headsets, or I may send the output to my camera for synching purposes via one of the Sennheiser transmiters. The really nice thing about the R4 is that it has limiters that will prevent clipping. You can pretty much set the levels and walk away from it and concentrate on shooting the video, and not have to worry about riding the mic inputs anymore.

I've also recently acquired the Zoom H4 which gives me an additional 2 channels of independent audio (if using external mics). So with 6 independent channels of audio I hope to have some really nice sound for my final mix. I may even dabble a bit with surround sound!

If you record four channels on the Edirol R4, are all four channels stereo or mono?

If you record four channels on the Edirol R4, are all four channels stereo or mono?

Hi Dale, the following is extracted from the data spec sheet page

http://www.edirol.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=56&Itemid=385

"Simultaneous 4-Channel Recording: The 4 XLR/Phone combo jacks come with switchable phantom power and give you a choice of MONO, STEREO, STEREO X2, or 4CH recording. ... Four-channel recording gives you exceptional flexibility. For example, you can use mics to capture the ambience of a performance hall while using line input to record the performance itself"

So in other words, you can record 2 stereo files, file 1 would contain the left and right channel of inputs 1 & 2 while your 2nd stereo files would come from your inputs 3&4. That's how I plan on using the R4 at receptions, connect inputs 1&2 to the DJ's line output L & R channels, then use 2 matched pair of mics for inputs 3 & 4 for the ambient in stereo.

You can also set the R4 up to capture 4 individual mono files, or a wave file which contains 4 channels. When the 4CH wave files is dumped into a Premiere Pro timeline for example, it will place each individual mono file into it's own track.