If you were shooting (cameraman/DP) a movie which your producer wants to eventually print to film for theatrical viewing/distribution, but wanted to shoot on a digital medium because of heavy cgi, which camera would you use? And why that camera?
Please answer this as a cameraman and not as a producer AKA don't think about budget.

Currently I'd go for either a Sony F950 or a Viper, ideally recorded uncompressed 2k 4:4:4:, but check out HDCAM SR with your post people. The HDCAM and DVPROHD formats have too much compression for high quality effects work.

In the future, perhaps the RED or SI 2K might be possible candidates. The RED is going to be used for the VFX shots on a feature that is being mostly shot on film. However, I don't know if they're using RED CODE or recording uncompressed.

Im new on this forum. I hope i'm posting this thread in the right
forum part. Sorry if i'm posting in the wrong one.

My old sony consumer cam dcr-trv25e has just died and
now Im looking for a new cam.
Im not a pro but want to learn more about filming.

My aim is to buy a cam thats not to "professional" but is a step higher
then my old cam and gives me some more control than my dcr-trv25e had.

The following cams I have in mind: sony HDR-FX7, HVR-A1 or the canon HV20.

Im going to use the cam for some wedding filming and for making some
short movies as a hobby.

Can anyone help me out to choose the right cam. My bugget is arround
2500 euro's. Other cam suggestions are welcome too.

I replaced my old TRV-8E for a HDR-FX7 and I'm very happy but I think your budget is a bit short for this cam:-(

You have to think you have to buy extra things like batteries, one bag, filters...

these are my numbers: FX7=2800 euros
Kata bag=220 euros
extra battery=85 euros
UV filter=30 euros


I have spent 3135 euros in total! and you have to think a Canon A1 is more expensive!

The FX7 is a fantastic cam. If you can wait one or two months and earn more money you will be very happy with it.

Thanks for the reply

500,00 euro's more is acceptable for me. So you suggest that the
HDR-FX7 is a better choise then the HVR-A1 or canon HV20?

I heard that the FX7 is not so good in low light situations?
Is it really so terrible, or is it just the pro's and sceptics that can see the difference? Is the HV20 better in low light?

Ik know that the canon HV20 is a good cam, with good reviews, but has lesser manuel controls.
Can a canon HV20 be compared with a FX7?
Or is it a total different group that will buy the HV20 over the FX7.

Also, can the HVR-A1 be compared with the other 2 cams?

When i'm making short movies does progressive shooting
be needed to get a good filmish look? I know that the HV20 does have 24p
and the FX and HVR-A1 doesnt. Is it really needed to make a good short movie? Or is a FX7 good enough to get a filmish result?

SOrry for my newbie questions, i'm working on more knowledge :-)

Sorry! I made a mistake. I thought that the A1 you are searching was the canon XH-A1 and not the Sony HVR-A1.

Try the three cams and buy what you need. Is my best advice. Until the release of the FX7 I was tempted to buy the HVR-A1 but I need more manual controls and a 3xCMOS sensor.

I didn't try the Canon but it seems a very good cam derived from the XH-A1.

If you need a small camera try the Sony A1 or the Canon.
If you need XLR Audio for your shorts films try the Sony A1.
If you need full manual try the FX7.
If you want to use your old batteries with the new cam try the Sony A1.

The HV20 gives terrific video performance for a consumer camera. The HVR-A1 and FX7 are "prosumer" cameras and a step up in size and performance. My money would probably go to the FX7. The audio options on it aren't great, but the picture quality is.

I'd go for a HV20 or equivalent from the Sony range (HC7 or HC5) , if it were for wedding videos and/or (hobbywise) short movies.

FX7 is cool too, but that's getting awfully close to the cost of an XHA1...

I don't know how many batteries you have from your trv25e, but if you have two or more of the really large capacity ones, and if there's a sony model in the HC-range that lets you use those, I'd go for that one.

I have several big lithium batteries that work with my digital8 camera, but also fit on the prosumer Sony models FX1 and up. I also had two rechargers, that I could use without my camera needing to be plugged in. And that made me hesitate for a looong time before settling on the XHA1. The other reasons had more weight, otherwise I would've gone the FX1 route. Since that would've saved me at least 300-450 euros (equipment already available).

Turning up to do a paid wedding with something the size of the HV20 won't get many smiles from the brides parents. Won't be long before you'll want something bigger.
Cheers.

even more importantly, the hv20 has not-professional external controls for things that you definitely need professional external controls for if it's your primary camera. as a backup camera it could work (with the right expensive-looking :) accessories), but not for the primary camera on a critical shoot like a wedding.

i used it as a backup camera on a shoot recently: i am glad i have another camera angle for all the times my footage takes a hiccup while i moved the exposure: by first pointing it at something the right brightness, going into auto exposure, then locking, then *hurriedly* clicking down the manual exposure control till it was right.


Turning up to do a paid wedding with something the size of the HV20 won't get many smiles from the brides parents. Won't be long before you'll want something bigger.
Cheers.

Thanks for the replies,

I know the HV20 is a good cam and also has the advantage with its
24p recording. A short comming, like Allen and Ali said, is that the HV20 doesnt look that professional for paid wedding shootings and has lesser professional controls.

On the other side, the HV20 has good light performance, which is critical at wedding shootings. Especially when shooting at the evening wedding party.

But I think i'll let the HV20 for what it is (because of the lesser manuel controls) and make my choice out of the FX7 or HVR-A1.

The good thing about the HVR-A1 is thats its quite small and is usefull
to take it everywhere with me (Also when i'm on vacation).
But I think i'll like that FX7 more because of its professional looks and because its newer then the HVR-A1.
That said, makes me also look in the direction of the XH-A1 from Canon. But that cam is way heavier then the FX7 and isnt that easy to take with me. What do you guys suggest? Also, the XH-A1 has progressive shooting, but do i really need this option for hobby short movie filming?

I love my HVR-A1U, but I wouldn't recommend it as a wedding cam. It isn't sensitive enough. You'll need a hefty light at the reception, and the camera is really too small to carry a big light. Also, too many of the settings are buried in the menus. It can take quite a while to set up the camera, and then you may have missed the shot.

The FX-7 would be a better bet.

Ok, thanks for all the usefull info so far.

I've been to the store to check out some cams and I must say
that I was pretty impressed by the HV20. The overall look is not professional,
but the images that it produces looks very stunning.

I have a few questions.

How is the overall video quality of the HVR-a1e in comparison to the HV20?

Which cam can handle low light situations better?

How is the standard wide angle of the HVR-a1e? Has it a wider angle then
the HV20?

Im planning to use my new cam for wedding video and for hobby short movies.
What cam do you guys suggest to choose out of these 2 cams?

I have been wondering what sub-10k USD camera has the "best" image quality. I am talking about HD cameras. So the highest-def camera.

Thanks in advance.

Image quality is not determined by the camera. Image quality is determined by the person using the camera. The right one for you is the camera which feels best in your hands, whose format you are comfortable working with. Any of the sub-$10k camcorders currently available will produce incredible images if handled properly. If you are thinking that somehow there must be one which is better than all the others, then you're looking at it in entirely the wrong way.

Hello Chris,

I fully agree with you on that. I suppose what I was trying to say is--what is the camera with least known errors in the sub-10k range. The "highest regarded," by users, in a sense. I hope that this clears up what I was trying to say.

Thanks.

Sorry, but it's as if you were asking which car should you buy, or which guitar. Ask ten different people and you'll get ten different answers. Everybody has their own opinions and their own preferences. What I'm trying to impress upon you is that there is no such thing as "highest regarded." If there was such a thing, it would be the only camera that sells. The fact is though that *all* of them are selling quite well.

If you're looking for a response such as "oh, no doubt about it, you want the Forbin KL-6 camera," then as I've already said you are approaching this the wrong way. All of the sub-$10K HD cameras are highest regarded, by the people that use them.

There are literally dozens of previous discussions here which all ask that same question "which is the best camera." Read through them and you'll find that there is no simple, one-size-fits-all definitive answer.

Jasper, welcome to DVi!

A more appropriate approach to your question would be to tell this community what you intend to do, what type of work is your camera going to be involved in. And what is your final product going to be? What workflow will you be using?

Certain cameras are preferred by those making independent films, other cameras work better in the live videography environment, and so on. And even within these categories, as Chris pointed out, there is the personal preference. Come back with answers and you will certainly get all the help you need!

Im going crazy trying to decide. I just sold some photo gear and I have $3,300 to spend but I have to buy a DSLR too. Im looking at a 2 options

Rebel XTI DSLR $665
Letus35 FE $700
HV-20 $1,030
________
$2,395


Rebel XTI DSLR $665
Sony FX7 $2,600
_________
$3,265


Having the HDR-HC3 right now I find that the auto focus seems to focus on the background when trying to focus on my kids and it makes me crazy.

I played with the FX7 over the weekend and found it to have lots of manual controls and the 20X zoom is awesome and the focus seems to be WAY BETTER. With the 20X zoom shallow DOF seems bretty good and is AF unlike the Letus.

From what I have heard the HV-20 has excellent auto focus and with the letus it is still cheaper than the FX7 but lacks the 20x zoom and full manual control.

I usually just video my kids , trips, zero budget movies with my friends once in a while.

Any opinions on what you would do if you had this money and why would be very helpful.

Thanks Joey








Any opinions on what you would

With the subject matter you wanted to shoot, HV20 would be my choice. Great image in a small package...and having the 35mm adapter would be nice.

- Kyle

Joey:

Depends on what you really want to do.

You are not done when you buy the Letus. You'll want to get specific prime lenses. Probably around 4, figuring about $75.00 average each on EBay. In my experience, a zoom lens is not your answer. You'll have compromises and adjustments you will be making with the HV20. Low light because of additional light loss both with the Letus and it flip function will make available light shooting inside very difficult. I shot with the non flip Letus and HV20 this weekend, and needed lights in a lot of indoor situations.

Benefit of HV20 is a high definition image at 24p, but to get true 24p you'll also have to consider going with at least NEOHDV to do pull down.

HV20 with Letus is not a simple point and shoot. But it does give a nice result if you pull it all together properly.

Hello,

I have been searching reviews and posts endlessly looking for the right camera. Any advice would be helpful.

I am looking to shoot whatever work I can get: weddings, events, commercials, etc. I just relocated to Southern CA, so something that could also shoot indie may prove useful here?

I would like to buy a primary camera and get good with it, then rent a second if necessary for the job. My budget is from around $3000-$6000.

I was looking at the JVC HD-GY110U, canon XH-A1, etc..

Thanks,

Gary

Chris,

You're right. I should probably go into a camera store and feel the cameras there; try them out. Then, make a list of the ones I like and then post here for sample/test footage.

Well, I'm looking for a sub-10k camera with the following:

- 1/3-inch 3-CCD chip+
- High-definition (compared to Standard-definition)
- Interchangeable lens (so that I can attach 35mm adapters and such)
- The most non-digital look: as much film-look as possible – complete eye candy

I am shooting a feature coming up. About two brothers, one who is autistic, and their relations to a mysterious island. Very, very moving story. A fairy-tale-like theme. But very intense and emotional. I may use a certain style of putting "intense" music in non-action-oriented scenes and putting "calm" music in intense/action-oriented scenes. A interesting concept–and I'm not sure if it has ever been used before!

So as I described earlier, I am looking for a non-digital look. Of course, in the end it comes down to mainly lighting. But I really want eye candy, an image that will really be beautiful and appealing. The film will be distributed. There are many water sequences. I also want a camera that I can install on a 20-foot boom and Fly-Cam. So a camera that is pref. under 15 pounds.

Thanks for your help. I'm really excited about being a member on DVi!

Thanks Kyle and Chris

one of the other things that is holding me back from the HV-20 is I allready have a small cam in the HC3 and is it worth it buy another cam a little better for $1000.

Or I can get the FX7 which is 2.5 times as much with all the features, mainly 20x/Manual .

What makes it hard too is not ever using an adapter. I love videos I see from it when but Im worried how hard it will be to set up with no probs and even if I will like shooting with one. Should I get the 35A to see if I like it or get the FE incase I do.

I think I need to go handle both one more time before I decide what I want to blow my money on.

Just go for the Canon XH-A1. Almost all of the cameras in that price range are good cameras, they just have slightly different pros and cons. On a simple bang-for-you-buck basis the XH-A1 wins (hence why Cnet has it as their pick of the bunch) and it is a complicated enough piece of equipment that it will force you to learn how to use it well.

Purchase and enjoy.

Thanks Kyle and Chris

one of the other things that is holding me back from the HV-20 is I allready have a small cam in the HC3 and is it worth it buy another cam a little better for $1000.

Or I can get the FX7 which is 2.5 times as much with all the features, mainly 20x/Manual .

What makes it hard too is not ever using an adapter. I love videos I see from it when but Im worried how hard it will be to set up with no probs and even if I will like shooting with one. Should I get the 35A to see if I like it or get the FE incase I do.

I think I need to go handle both one more time before I decide what I want to blow my money on.

If not shooting 24p is not a big deal to you, then get the FX7. If you're going to just shoot the kids and mess around with the camera here and there, then why buy anything? If you want a better camera, sell the HC3, probably can get around $500 for it, and get a V1. It has 24p and everything. You can also get a Canon XHA1; it's 24f is a nice option, and it makes nice pictures for the price. My point is that for what you are shooting; you don't need two cameras. One is going to sit on the shelf. If you plan on doing weddings or event video, then get the FX7. The HC3 can be your backup and deck, and the FX7 can be your main camera. If that's not the case, then put the extra money in your kids' college funds.

Good luck.

Interchangeable lens... well you eliminated all but the Canon XLH1 or JVC Pro HD 110, 200, 250. Considering what you are shooting, I would go with the JVC HD 200. A very nice 720/60p camera that shoots native 24p and has HD-SDI for professional applications. If you're hung on to pure resolution, then get the Canon XLH1. It has HD-SDI, and its 24f is a close replica of 24p. The JVC, in my opinion, has a better film look, but the Canon has lots of adjustments to achieve just about any look, so you really can't go wrong with either one. I think Chris makes an excellent point; you're not going to find a clear winner. They are all very nice cameras for the price. It comes down to personal preference. Go handle those cameras, and see how they feel. Is the professional lens of the JVC without image stabilization going to work, or would you rather sacrifice a better manual lens for one that has a good image stabilizer? Audio? Camera layout? balance, etc? There are many variables, not just look.

..."oh, no doubt about it, you want the Forbin KL-6 camera,"...

Chris, where can I get one of those Forbin KL-6 cams? I hear they're the best! :P

Sorry, no offense to Jasper with this remark. I just couldn't pass up the opportunity.

I have a Forbin KL-6 "A" - the early version, without the cupholder. Don't waste your money on it. Wait for the "C" version - it's supposed to have the "Auto Acting" button, that makes your actors remember their lines.

[QUOTE=Jasper Blunk;698676]Chris,

"I may use a certain style of putting "intense" music in non-action-oriented scenes and putting "calm" music in intense/action-oriented scenes. A interesting concept–and I'm not sure if it has ever been used before!" --

Contrast is an interesting and used aesthetic in Art.
Kind regards,
Daniel

I have a Forbin KL-6 "A" - the early version, without the cupholder. Don't waste your money on it. Wait for the "C" version - it's supposed to have the "Auto Acting" button, that makes your actors remember their lines.
I have a B model and I once put in a tape backwards... the video came out upside down (I was able to fix in post no problem) but the audio came translated to English... I filmed a Hungarian performance... This is what you get if you buy the best!

Hi Joey -

Not to add to your confusion, but take a look at the HC7 too - better picture quality than the HC3, still small size to drag around for the kid's stuff, only slightly more the the HV20, only thing you really give up is the 24P, and I think the general conclusion is the build quality of the HC7 is better.

Here's my take - with your description of how you're going to use the cam, the HC7 will probably do the trick, sell the HC3 unless you need a second angle or backup cam. The FX7 might well be overkill unless you're getting paid to shoot - sure, bells and whistles, but... there's that college fund! With the HC7 you should still be close to on budget if you want to fiddle with adapters.

DB>)

Thanks Mark,

I think I will take your advice, I was considering the JVC I think mainly for the professional "image" of a shoulder mount camera. However the Canon seems to be more versatile for the average videographer...plus that leaves me more money for a steadicam merlin, lights, mics etc. which will improve my overall service.

Gary

Maybe a 7" hi res monitor to go with the Canon XH-A1... Its LCD is not considered as best for sharp focusing.

Maybe a 7" hi res monitor to go with the Canon XH-A1... Its LCD is not considered as best for sharp focusing.

I'll second these recomendations.. Go with the A1 and then by the larger LCD. I own two HDR-FX1's and what benefit it has over the A1 is the fact the LCD screens are better and larger.

Jon

Ah, excellent. I just went down to my local shop today and they have them on sale for 3500. The salesman said that since I will be needing accessories, audio, lights, etc, he should be able to close to the BHphoto price on a package deal..

Where would I get the 7'' monitor? I found one at dvcreators (a marshall V-r70p-hda) , but it is almost $1400! Are there LCD's for less? Are they worth the upgrade?

Any other accessory recommendations off hand? So far the guy at the shop recommended a glidecam rig with harness (1200), an on camera 20W paglight, a rode mic, and wide angle lens...

Thanks,

Gary

I was looking at the JVC HD-GY110U, canon XH-A1, etc..



If looking "pro" will help get you more work, and charge more, then get the HD110. If you aren't used to a camera with "pro ergonomics" or need to shoot stealthly ever, then get the XHA1.

Since you're in the states Gary, don't forget to get the $250 rebate (if you purchase before 30th of June). The external monitors are expensive (i gather the Marshall HD ones are the pick of the bunch though). You might want to consider something like the Hoodman H-300 for the time being, it has a 2x magnifier that will make the Canon's lcd easier to use.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=294332&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

And I definitely agree that getting the XHA1 with a glidecam is a better way to go than getting the JVC and using it shoulder mounted - it'll give you more options with your filming. You'll want to be quick though if you want that rebate, only 10 days left.

I find it interesting that the XH/A1 forum consistently has about twice as many people signed on as the Sony V1/FX7 forum. I suspect that this mirrors the two cameras' relative popularity, although it could just be that there are more Canon users on this particular site.

There are more Canon users on this particular site. It's not an accurate mirror of their relative popularity.

I've noticed that Canon video camera's in local stores more.... Sony must be a pain to resell for. Here in Louisville you will not find a Z1/FX1 or V1/FX7. But the only camera store ( Murphy's ) has Canon A1's and XLS's.

I picked up the XH-A1 yesterday! Thanks for the help!

Now I just have to learn how to really use it!

Gary

Hey people

Im really in a bind here, i want a HD camera, and ive considered so many differnet ones, like the GY-HD range and the Z1E even the RED camera, im willing to spend quite alot really, im from UK, so most id spend is 7-8k so i think thats like $16k, but anyway, im a editor by trade so want the best image that can be edited in Final Cut. Any help would be awesome!

I want a HD camera. I've considered many different ones, like the GY-HD range, the Z1E, and even the RED camera. The most I'd spend is about $16k.

[Edited for grammar, spelling, and brevity.]

The RED camera will be the best option when it comes out. Until then, for the best HD image under $16k, get the XL H1 and a lossless SDI recorder. The image beats everything else in its price class except in chromatic abberation and moire, which can both be controlled if you can manipulate the environment.

If you'll be in the studio most of the time, you can build your own SDI recorder for $2k. For thin depth of field and excellent background blur, get the 85mm f/1.2 (only if you have a *lot* of working distance).

Hey Daniel thanks for the reply but,

whats chromatic abberation and moire?

Thanks

Search is your friend...

Chromatic abberation: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=chromatic+abberation&btnG=Search

and Moire: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=moire&btnG=Google+Search

Yeah I'd go XLH or G1 over the Z1/V1 - nicer lens, better picture, better controls on the body too. The XL is around £4.5k (From us anyway), so you'd have some play for another lens or - as suggested - hardware for lossless capture, or (if you've not got it already) Final cut studio 2.

For a little more than 16K you could go with the XDHD cam the 330 and the time you would save in work flow would make up for the price of the camera in the long run.

If you were shooting (cameraman/DP) a movie which your producer wants to eventually print to film for theatrical viewing/distribution, but wanted to shoot on a digital medium because of heavy cgi, which camera would you use? And why that camera?
Please answer this as a cameraman and not as a producer AKA don't think about budget.

Sorry but this is a ridiculous question.
You can not select a camera without knowing budgetary guidelines, workflow considerations, shot types & such.
And in all honestly, what chance is there of this movie going to film for distribution if the DP has to ask an internet forum what camera he should use.