I used my brand new Olympus DS-30 digital voice recorder at a wedding this past weekend, and the audio came out great. Previously I'd been using the Olympus DS-330, which doesn't have the same range and quality. It was okay, but could sometimes make people sound like they had a lisp.

The DS-30, however, is just awesome. The audio is PERFECT. I highly recommend this DVR.

Travis, what microphone did you use with the DS-30? Also, are there any issues with using the WMA audio format? Is the 256mb installed memory sufficient to record an entire wedding? It doesn't look like the memory can be upgraded, so record time in a high quality format seems like it might be limited.

I'm just using the cheap lav mic's that came with my original Azden wireless system, with furry wind-protectors.

The supplied software (Mac and Windows compatible) allows you to convert the WMA files to AIFF, so no compatibility issues there.

Also, there is plenty of memory for an entire ceremony. At the highest quality setting (STXQ) you can record up to 4 hours and 10 minutes of audio.

Travis - I just wanted to know how the DS-30 is working for you. Can you compare the new recorder with the old such as ease of use and set up? Also, how do you adjust the record levels before you record - is it adjustable or is it just a low/med/high switch? Can you give me a run down of how you mic up the groom and set up the recorder for a wedding? I currently us a Samson UHF wireless lav system plus shotgun on the cam, but the last few weddings I was getting too much interference that it is starting to become unreliable.

Thanks,
Mike

Travis: So you slip the Olympus into the groom's pocket and clip the mic onto him?

I see this ST XQ mode: 4 hours 10 minutes...

What kind of quality does the ST XQ give you?

Travis - I just wanted to know how the DS-30 is working for you. Can you compare the new recorder with the old such as ease of use and set up? Also, how do you adjust the record levels before you record - is it adjustable or is it just a low/med/high switch? Can you give me a run down of how you mic up the groom and set up the recorder for a wedding? I currently us a Samson UHF wireless lav system plus shotgun on the cam, but the last few weddings I was getting too much interference that it is starting to become unreliable.

Thanks,
Mike

I love my DS-30's. It is a slight pain to re-adjust the speed and sync them in post several times in the timeline, but that slight pain is more than worth it to not have ANY interference. When using my Azden wireless system, I would get spots of interference at every wedding, some worse than others.

I've been using DVR systems for about 3 or 4 years now, and I've NEVER had interference or dropouts. It's awesome.

As for the difference between my DS-30 systems and my older Olympus systems, it's somewhat night and day. The actual operation and setup is basically the same, but the STXQ recording option is simply amazing quality. It's crystal clear. I just can't stress how good it sounds.

Regarding setup for a wedding, it's easy. I simply hook a lav mic to the unit via the mic port on top, turn on the unit., confirm that it is still set to record STXQ, confirm that the switch on the left is set to "dict" (instead of "lecture" or "conf"; I've found "dict" sounds best), hit the record button, set the power button to "hold" so that all of the controls are now locked, and then attach the lav to the groom's tux/suit and have them place the rest of the unit (it's light and small) in their jacket pocket. I don't set audio levels for the device because I don't think it has that option (if it does, I don't know how to access it). However, I've been using the DS-30 since the beginning of last wedding season and I've yet to have a problem with peaking to cut-out. If the wedding is outdoors I will put a fuzzy windblocker on the mic. Otherwise I just use the standard foam protector.

Hope that helps. Any more questions just ask.

Travis: Thanks for the info.. at it's default audio level (I'm assuming it's auto gain)... is it sensitive enough to pick up the bride's voice as well? Does it auto adjust when the groom is talking and when the bride's talking?

Travis: Thanks for the info.. at it's default audio level (I'm assuming it's auto gain)... is it sensitive enough to pick up the bride's voice as well? Does it auto adjust when the groom is talking and when the bride's talking?

Yes, I use the audio from the groom's mic for the bride's voice. Depending on the circumstances I will sometimes bump up the volume in post for the bride's voice, but oftentimes it is fine as it is.

The only disadvantage I've seen with the DVR system is that you have to spend time in post adjusting the speed and syncing with the video several times. But I would bet I only spend about 10-15 minutes extra doing this, and that's more than worth it to me to not have dropouts and interference.

A side advantage is that my DVR systems also will not interfere with other audio systems. So when I have to do a wedding at a church where they typically don't allow videographers to using their own mic system, I can explain how mine operate and they then have no reason to not let me use them.

Thanks Travis - great info on user experience. I Searched on the Olympus site and found that the WS-311M also records at STXQ and at 50 -19000Hz. Less money and double the flash memory - I think that the DS-30 cost more because of the stereo mic that sits on top of it. Do you ever use the mic at all or just with the lavs? Not sure if your old recorder is similar to the WS-311M as far as set up and usability and function. Also you mentioned that you have more than one recorder - How many do you use at one wedding/ceremony/reception?

Thanks again,
Mike

Travis - do you have any sample weddings on your site that include audio from the DS-30 such as vows or speeches that you can share with us?

Thanks,
Mike

Thanks Travis - great info on user experience. I Searched on the Olympus site and found that the WS-311M also records at STXQ and at 50 -19000Hz. Less money and double the flash memory - I think that the DS-30 cost more because of the stereo mic that sits on top of it. Do you ever use the mic at all or just with the lavs? Not sure if your old recorder is similar to the WS-311M as far as set up and usability and function. Also you mentioned that you have more than one recorder - How many do you use at one wedding/ceremony/reception?

Thanks again,
Mike

I'm not familiar with the WS-311M. You have to be careful and make sure the device can output to your computer. I remember some of their models were basically the same thing, but they had no way of getting the audio onto a computer.

I've never used the stereo mic, just lav's. I use two at each wedding; one on the officiant and one on the groom. Another nice thing about using these is that it then frees up all of my cameras to record their own ambient sound.

Travis - do you have any sample weddings on your site that include audio from the DS-30 such as vows or speeches that you can share with us?

Thanks,
Mike

Nothing publicly visible. I do, however, still have this video:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=119150

If you skip forward to the ceremony you can hear the audio from the DS-30's (previous audio was captured on camera via shotgun mic). This was actually the first wedding with the 2nd DS-30, and it was placed on the officiant. I received it literally the day before the wedding, and was in a hurry and forgot to set the quality level to STXQ. So the the officiant's mic is recording at lower quality, but the groom's mic is on STXQ. The audio in the piece I linked to has music underneath, but you should still be able to get an idea for the audio quality (keep in mind the audio in this piece was also compressed for internet delivery).

Thanks Travis for the video sample - It is a great video! Thanks for forewarning us about the first mic not properly set. It didn't survive so well being compressed for the web file. But what I heard from the quick clips of the vows it sounded good. So I think I'll pick one up and try it out soon - still may consider the WS-311M which has a USB adapter built in to the recorder that somehow reveals itself after sliding off its cap/housing. Thanks again for all your detailed info and for reviving a year old thread.

Thanks Travis for the video sample - It is a great video! Thanks for forewarning us about the first mic not properly set. It didn't survive so well being compressed for the web file. But what I heard from the quick clips of the vows it sounded good. So I think I'll pick one up and try it out soon - still may consider the WS-311M which has a USB adapter built in to the recorder that somehow reveals itself after sliding off its cap/housing. Thanks again for all your detailed info and for reviving a year old thread.

The mic issue was my own fault, too, in case I didn't make that clear. I just forgot to change the quality setting when it first arrived. Once you set it, you don't have to worry about it anymore.

Glad I could help you with the info. That's what these forums are all about. Good luck!

I love my DS-30's. It is a slight pain to re-adjust the speed and sync them in post several times in the timeline, but that slight pain is more than worth it to not have ANY interference.

Travis, can you try re-sampling your audio file in Soundforge before you drop it in the timeline? Resample it as 48K, 16-bit and I think you should be in sync all the time every time.

WOW...you could buy 3 of these things for the price of a sennheiser wireless lav mic.

Thanks for sharing Travis. This will really help when changing tapes :).

Also, what steps do you have to do to make the sound "sync up"? Is it just placement or do you have to play with speed every time? And if you're playing with speed, what speed do you usually set it to percentage wise?

As far as audio dumping, how long does it take to dump the 4 hour ceremony (or however many hours you record) onto your computer?

Thanks again for the awesome tip!

I recently picked up the WS-311M from Frys.com for $49.99 with free shipping, that deal made up my mind real quick as to which recorder to get. I also ordered a Giant-Squid omni lav ($35 shipped) which I think works great with it. The first test I did was to mic myself up and walk around the house with it. I set it for the Stereo XQ Mode which is the highest recording mode and set the mic level to dictate. I put the mic on as if I was micing up a groom and put the recorder in my pocket. One thing that I forgot was that I also had my cell phone in the same pocket, and as I recorded the first test it did pick up some interference beeping from the phone(which never rang or received any messages at the time.) My voice sounded excellent from the recorder.

I was able to transfer the WMAs to the computer with ease because of the built in USB plug. I than converted the WMA files to WAVs and imported them into Edius and put them on the timeline with the audio meters displayed, even though the audio peaked into the red zone it never became distorted or clipped.(I didn't do any extensive testing, just a dozen recording or so.)

I'm very pleased with the record quality from the recorder - but there are a few items that had me thinking. First it is small which is good for placing on the groom but for viewing the display it's tough to read. Second, the build quality seems on the low end and I feel that if I hold onto the recorder and start pressing on the buttons that I may squeeze it too hard and it may crack. The surface is really smooth and it feels slick and slippery which makes me feel as it I'm going to drop it, hence the firm grip that I have on it. The hold/power button is on the opposite side of the record and play buttons, so every time that I try to switch the hold button with my thumb I always push either the record or play button. (Dang tiny recorder.)

Two other items that I want to mention. One is when you record with a mono mic it only records to one channel(I think it's the right channel) No big deal, just a quick fix in my editor. And the other is the USB plug that's built into the recorder. There is a release on the back of the recorder which slides off the bottom portion that holds the battery to expose the USB plug. This battery holder feels so light and fragile. My first though was that I'm going to lose this piece somewhere. Or it will get knocked to the ground and break or get stepped on. I'm not clumsy but the base is so smooth and I already mentioned the build quality - it just seems to me that something is going to happen to it and if it gets damaged, that's it game over, the recorder won't work.

I'm not trashing the recorder - I do like it and for the price I think it was a steal, but I will also get a second one or DS-30 for a companion/backup record device. I can't wait to try it out under a real record situation - I think the record quality sounds great. Yet I still will have to deal with the sync issue once I start editing.

Travis, can you try re-sampling your audio file in Soundforge before you drop it in the timeline? Resample it as 48K, 16-bit and I think you should be in sync all the time every time.

I don't have Soundforge. I'm assuming this is something I could do in Soundtrack Pro, though (Apple product)?

WOW...you could buy 3 of these things for the price of a sennheiser wireless lav mic.

Thanks for sharing Travis. This will really help when changing tapes :).

Also, what steps do you have to do to make the sound "sync up"? Is it just placement or do you have to play with speed every time? And if you're playing with speed, what speed do you usually set it to percentage wise?

As far as audio dumping, how long does it take to dump the 4 hour ceremony (or however many hours you record) onto your computer?

Thanks again for the awesome tip!

I usually set the sped to 100.15%, and then break up the clip and sync it (line it up) as necessary.

I usually get about an hour to an hour and a half of audio because I put the mic on the groom/officiant about 15-20 minutes before the ceremony, ceremony is 30 mintues, then retrieve the mic's sometime later at during the reception. Total time to capture and convert audio from both units is maybe 15-20 minutes tops. Pretty fast.

I'm not trashing the recorder - I do like it and for the price I think it was a steal, but I will also get a second one or DS-30 for a companion/backup record device. I can't wait to try it out under a real record situation - I think the record quality sounds great. Yet I still will have to deal with the sync issue once I start editing.

Yeah, with the things you mentioned I think you will like the DS-30 more. That was interesting about the cell phone interference, because I've NEVER experienced any kind of interference or dropouts, even with a wireless mics transmitter the groom's pocket with it. Maybe a difference between your unit and the DS-30? I don't know.

I recently picked up the WS-311M from Frys.com for $49.99 with free shipping, that deal made up my mind real quick as to which recorder to get. I also ordered a Giant-Squid omni lav ($35 shipped) which I think works great with it.

Michael,

Which Giant Squid omni lav do you have? I guess, it is a mono one but is it a standard mic version (compatible with Zoom H2 etc.) or the iRiver version (wired differently?..) I have an Olympus WS-310M (previous version of yours) and also wanted to use it with the GS lav mic, powered internally from the recorder...

I picked up the standard omni mono mic (not for the I-rivers) from Giant Squid and had them install the right angle plug for the extra six bucks. I also have an H2 but haven't tried the mic with it. When I did the tests I didn't use any covering over the mic(They don't come with any foam windscreens - they recommend picking some up from Radio-Shack) and the mic is a little bigger than what I am used to using(Standard lav mic that's included with the Samson UHF wireless-I can't use this with the recorder because it has a mini-xlr plug.) Once I pick up some wind screens I'll try another walk around the house or fake a reading from a wedding in my living room that has a vaulted ceiling giving that echo church feeling.

Another cool feature on the recorder is that it can be switched over to a music player. I've been busy scanning 400 photos for a video yearbook and I've been dragging and dropping podcasts onto the recorder when it's plugged into the computer - great for quick grab and audio to listen to. Quick and easier than iTunes to transfer and dump audio. I've been listening to playback for over 4 hours of podcasts and the battery icon on the display is at full bars. The recorder is about the size of the original Nano ipod.

Yeah, with the things you mentioned I think you will like the DS-30 more. That was interesting about the cell phone interference, because I've NEVER experienced any kind of interference or dropouts, even with a wireless mics transmitter the groom's pocket with it. Maybe a difference between your unit and the DS-30? I don't know.

Hey Travis - We get these interferences all the time from all kinds of devices. We get the beeping from the clock/radio alarm when the radio is off. The other day my wife left her cell phone on top of her iHome ipod boombox which was turned off and we gone the screeching beeps thru it. My step-daughter says it's the aliens trying to communicate with us. And I heard it a few nights ago while I was editing on my workstation thru my earphones. At times it seems you can hear the noise right before the cell phone rings but not all the times. Strange stuff - not sure if this is a regional thing, I live in New Jersey. If you want I can send you a small sample of the sound to see if you have ever heard it before.

Well, I've experienced some of that before. For example, when my cell phone rings while I'm at my desk my speakers will crackle just before it rings. What I was saying is I never had an issue with interference with the DS-30, even with devices right next to it. However, based on your experience, I think I'll play it safer in the future and just make sure it doesn't go in the same pocket as a cell phone or wireless mic transmitter.

Was reading up more on this before I pulled the trigger and found it doesn't work for mac. Such a shame. :(

Was reading up more on this before I pulled the trigger and found it doesn't work for mac. Such a shame. :(

What are you talking about? I use a Mac and they've been working fine with it for 2 years now. You must have gotten some bad information.

What are you talking about? I use a Mac and they've been working fine with it for 2 years now. You must have gotten some bad information.

Olympus' site :

OS Supported Windows® 2000 Professional, Windows XP Professional,
Windows XP Home Edition, Windows Vista™ (requires firmware and software updates

Not compatible with Macintosh™ operating systems

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/product.asp?product=1276&fl=4

But if you say it works, that's fantastic news :)

Olympus' site :

OS Supported Windows® 2000 Professional, Windows XP Professional,
Windows XP Home Edition, Windows Vista™ (requires firmware and software updates

Not compatible with Macintosh™ operating systems

http://www.olympusamerica.com/cpg_section/product.asp?product=1276&fl=4

But if you say it works, that's fantastic news :)

Wow, that's weird. Yeah, I have 2 Olympus DS-30's, and both work just fine with my Mac. The "DSS Player" software even runs on my Mac. Very strange that they actually say it's "not compatible".

I have my first wedding coming in 2 weeks. I've followed this thread and purchased the DS-30 and a lav from Giant Squid. I'm hoping this will workout ok.

My question is about the filter settings on the ds-30. There is a Low Cut Filter on the unit and I was wondering if anyone turns it on? I'm hoping the setup will pickup the bride as well (unit will be on the groom) and wasn't sure if the low cut filter would hurt.

Thanks

I have my first wedding coming in 2 weeks. I've followed this thread and purchased the DS-30 and a lav from Giant Squid. I'm hoping this will workout ok.

My question is about the filter settings on the ds-30. There is a Low Cut Filter on the unit and I was wondering if anyone turns it on? I'm hoping the setup will pickup the bride as well (unit will be on the groom) and wasn't sure if the low cut filter would hurt.

Thanks
The low cut filter will not hurt your audio.
It's mainly there for situations where you don't want to record low frequencies, like wind outside. It can also be helpful with cutting down on AC noise while recording indoors.

I picked up a DS-30 along with a pair of Binaural microphones.. Gonna see if this works out!

My DS-30 arrived today and after trying it out...I love it. About a week ago I Taped a financial seminar using two Azden wireless mics. It was at a Holiday Inn. The A/C's and the rest of the electronic equipment played havoc all night long. Stray Frequency's all over the place. I already had a Olympus WS-300m which I used for weddings and it was great. For some reason I didn't use it for the seminar. Now that I have two recorders I will use nothing else. In July I've got another Seminar and I'll post a report here. I have no weddings in the near future.
Hope this helps
Harry
BTW my Mics from my Azdens work just fine in both recorders thank you.

Anyone else having a nightmare syncing these up? The audio is indeed gorgeous but....man...does it drift!

I returned your email. I think I also mentioned earlier in the thread how I deal with the "drift". It's a bit of a pain to deal with, but I still feel that these are worth it because I get perfect audio every time.

Phew...sweat over!
If you are a Vegas user you can right click on the clip and select properties.

You then go to Time stretch/pitch shift
Method Classic
You then set the new length value to approx 99.76% of the original length. (too tired to work it out exactly..sorry!)
You then have to go back and re-sync the start of the clip.
After that you go to the end of the clip and just adjust the new length a fraction at a time until you are in sync.
Took a few attempts but it's now spot on.

http://www.mfbb.net/myvideoproblems/myvideoproblems-about25.html

Some great info.

http://www.mfbb.net/myvideoproblems/myvideoproblems-about25.html

Some great info.

Awesome find. I just scanned the article for now, but I'm going to try it out this week on my current wedding I think.

Okay, so I didn't do that proceedure, but I did use Quicktime to convert one of the Olympus AIIF files to a WAV file with 48khz for the sampling frequency. Then I just used trial and error to adjust the speed of the clip and got it so it's on from start to finish. For me that meant adjusting the speed to 100.12%. That was for the officiant's mic. Now for the groom. Hopefully the same percentage applies.

Okay, this is VERY strange and annoying. I use a DS-30 on the officiant and one on the groom. Both are exactly the same with the same mics and all of the settings are exactly the same.

But after converting both to 48khz and figuring out the speed requirements, one needed to be at 100.12% and the other had to be at 100.17%. I don't understand why the speeds need to be different if they were both captured exactly the same. Bizarre.

The good news is that converting them to 48khz seems to remove the lag and negates the need to cut the sound clips every couple of minutes to resync them. That's a time-saver!

This was discussed in another thread, but the short technical explanation is that there is a "clock" chip in most of these electronic devices. That chip can have variances from one to the next, even within the same production run (tolerances), and may even vary slightly over time.

Unless you spend huge amounts of money, electronic circuits will have tolerance related issues. Every component will have a range within which it will be "acceptable", and put a pile of components together, and so on...

I use the old saw "man with two watches never knows what time it is" - that's what you're seeing - you might mark your two recorders, keep a log of what the offsets are for future reference, and perhaps you can save some time in the future, presuming the devices don't drift with age and time...

Great advice, Dave. I do seem to remember reading that somewhere on here recently. Thanks for reminding me. I mark all my cameras so I might as well mark these recorders.

Question. After reading this thread I went out and bought this same dvr. Where should i go to find a mic to hook up with this? I have a wedding saturday and i need something quick. And if I can't get it for this weekend what mics would you guys suggest I go with? I saw a post earlier about the Giant Squid website.

I simply used the mic's that came with my Azden wireless set. I imagine any mic with an 1/8" plugin will work.

I simply used the mic's that came with my Azden wireless set. I imagine any mic with an 1/8" plugin will work.

Cool. Thanks.

I purchased one of the Giant Squids and it did a fantastic job. I only had the one ds-30 and put it on the groom. I picked up both the bride and groom as if both had their own. It even picked up the preacher.

Then during the lighting of the unity candle, both the bride and groom whispered their prayers and it picked that up also.

I purchased one of the Giant Squids and it did a fantastic job. I only had the one ds-30 and put it on the groom. I picked up both the bride and groom as if both had their own. It even picked up the preacher.

Then during the lighting of the unity candle, both the bride and groom whispered their prayers and it picked that up also.

I think that's where I was leaning toward. You guys have no idea how of an much impact you all have made on the way I shoot and look at things concerning weddings and just everyday videography. Also just to add to something mentioned earlier. The DSS player software does work with mac. There was a mac file on the cd. That's all.

will be purchasing a few of the olympus recorders, is there any advantage of the ds-40 over the ds-30?

will mostly be used for recording dialogue for ceremonies (officiant, groom, scripture readings) and music at the reception.

thanks

Okay, this is VERY strange and annoying. I use a DS-30 on the officiant and one on the groom. Both are exactly the same with the same mics and all of the settings are exactly the same.

But after converting both to 48khz and figuring out the speed requirements, one needed to be at 100.12% and the other had to be at 100.17%. I don't understand why the speeds need to be different if they were both captured exactly the same. Bizarre.

The good news is that converting them to 48khz seems to remove the lag and negates the need to cut the sound clips every couple of minutes to resync them. That's a time-saver!


I see Alastair and you have linked to a procedure I wrote a while back to try and help with this problem. Hope you found some of the info useful!

What doesn't come across in that procedure is the fact that, even if the remote audio recorder makes a recording that is exactly at the correct sample frequency, you might still have to adjust the length to match audio recorded on the camera -even if that's slighlty wrong!

Because the camera audio is in sync with the video, it becomes the master track, even if the camera control crystal frequency is slightly off, and so all other audio tracks will have to be corrected to that reference.

I believe all the Olympus recorders sample at 44KHz, and DV (and DVD) require 48KHz sampled audio. Converting from one sample rate to another shouldn't change the length of the converted audio at all, but I believe it can change with some software converters. That can of course make things better (or worse). Each individual combination will be different.

Most digital recording devices, and certainly all camcorders and solid state audio recorders, have an oscillator that acts as a system master 'clock', and this is usually controlled by a crystal. (Some very cheap devices use ceramic resonators, but these are considerably less accurate!).
Crystals are manufactured to resonate at a specific frequency, but this can be affected by a number of factors -temperature, ageing, and of course manufacturing tolerances.

As a result, there is always going to be some variation between devices. These differences are small - a typical commercial grade crystal will be accurate to within 0.003% of it's stated frequency-- but can be significant.

Sadly, this is particularly true for wedding videography, where individual 'takes' can extend to 30 minutes or more. Crystal tolerances of the order mentioned above can cause out of sync 'drift' of up to 200 milliseconds over an hour for example.

It should be remembered that although this drift is not likely to be variable over this preiod of time -the crystals are pretty stable short term wise - so adding a correction factor calculated from a procedure like the one I described is fairly easy.
There are loads of other ways of doing the same thing, of course, depending on what software you're using.

Remember though, the camera track must be the master, even if it's has the largest error!

Roger, thanks for the informative post. I've now marked my DVR's so I can track which one is which (meant to do this a long time ago anyways). It should make syncing even easier in the future.

Hi All:
I can't begin to tell you how pleased I am with using the Ds-30 recorder. In my previous posting I said that I would be taping two investment seminars for a local company. I just finished editing both morning and afternoon tapings. I had taped on Wed July 16th. I used two recorders. An Olympus WS-300m, which I have used for weddings and it worked great, and the Olympus DS-30 recorder. The DS-30 was the greatest. I found that the WS-300m had a slight hum in the background but the DS-30 had no hum. On the DS-30 I used the setting of "Low Set" for the Noise Cancel, and "Dict" setting as Travis had used in his setting. Audio was Great. When I edited in post I laid the track under the main camera audio track and sync up with the beginning with that of the video. Then I went to the end, picked a reference point, put a marker in at that point, and after some experimenting found that with my system I could change the Ds-30 audio clip by 100.19 and it synced up beautifully. Oh almost forgot, I converted the Ds-30 audio to 48000hz and 16bits stereo wav. I am using PPro CS3. No longer do I have to worry about interference from A/C's or anything else. I just ordered another DS-30 from Amazon.com. Also you can use your old mike from Azden or, I think, most others. Thanks Travis for starting this thread on the DS-30. It has opened a new door in capturing audio free from interference.

"Make that 5 Thumbs Up"

Good Luck to All
Harry