I've decided that I do want to purchase some sort of steadying device for my camera, one that is smooth, even when walking, etc. But something not to heavy. I like the idea that some of them can be used as a monopod as well..

I also like the idea of the device being support by a vest, so that my arm isn't carrying all the weight..

Can anyone suggest items from ebay that would be worth looking into, or products on other websites... (but the problem with that is, I don't have a credit card.. I'm only 20, .. so I need to be able to pay by check/money order etc)..

My price range.. is well.. hmm. I could do 400 but would rather stay under $300 if possible. I want to save some money for other things.

Any suggestions are appreciated.. thanks

Hi Jenna, you might want to check out this one:

http://dvcreators.net/steady-stick
It's only $99.

Hi Jenna -

Well, for your budget you won't get anything with a vest... the most you could hope for is some form of arm brace, and that won't help your back which is where it will really get you.

A lot will depend on what camera you intend to fly (don't remember what you were shooting from the wedding threads offhand...).

I've fiddled with about everything out there, and the best setup I've had is using the steady stick the other poster mentioned, modified to attach some other stabilized setup - the varizoom VZ ultralight worked pretty good, but now I'm shooting lighter cams and so I dug out an old VS1 I picked up on Ebay ages ago... still have to mod it a bit, but it will do. The trick is if you're trying to isolate the camera when you move, you either have one of the high end sprung rigs, OR you go handheld - if you can mount to the steady stick when you stop moving, it reduces the load on your body if you're on a longer shoot... the Steady stick is nice in that it transfers the weight to your hips, saving your BACK!

On the cheap end, you might look under the HC1/3/5/7 threads - I posted pix of a bracket rig on my camera that you can put together for around $50, and it's pretty good once you practice the "steadicam walk" - I can even run with the thing and keep the video viewable... turned a couple other guys on to this, and they seem to like it too - I used a heavier flash bracket to help control a Z1U, which is a much heavier cam as well. The brackets aren't a perfect solution, but the price is typically "right" as in CHEAP, and I've found I'm happy with the results for the most part.

One other option, keep an eye out for a used Steadicam JR - again no vest option, but it's a pretty good unit (now replaced by the Merlin, but that's about 2x your budget).

Stabilizing is a big part of making your video look "pro", but no one wants to be tied to a tripod - that's just dull! But finding a solution is not nearly as easy as it seems! I've got a pretty good handle (literally!) on it, but I've fiddled with it for a while to get where I'm mostly satisfied with my results.

DB>)

The steady stick seems like a nice item.. and I think i've seen steadicam jr's on ebay.. but who can tell, with them knocking off the names so they can sell their product.. I've seen someone selling a stabilizer for 100 bucks that was obviously home made out of those white pipes...

I'm not a handy person.. there aren't many tools in this house, so building something is basically out of the question, unless I force my boyfriend to do it, lol.. maybe i will...

Btw i'm shooting with a canon GL2. Make me kind of wish I had one of those shoulder mounted cameras like the good old vhs days.. (basically the more expensive ones nowadays)

Where is that thread you mentioned? HC1/3/5/7?

Anyways, so I go to ebay, type in .. stabilizers under camera & photo, and tons of selections show up..

If you've heard of any of these products and have something good or bad to say.. let me know so I can make sure I keep it in mind..

U-flycam

BOGEN MANFROTTO FIG RIG 595B CAMERA STABILIZER NEW (very oddly shaped.. I don't know if I'd want to walk around with it, lol)

Flycam 3000 Steadycam Stabilizer

Steady Tracker

Steadycam Flycam Pro

SD-5 Steadycam Stabilizer

The rest of them just call them selves "camera support stabilizers" .. so I can't be specific.. Just at least let me know what is junk, because i'm tempted to buy anyone of these items.

I did find one for 300 that had not quite a vest, but some type of support strap for the body..

Well thanks for your input

On the cheap end, you might look under the HC1/3/5/7 threads - I posted pix of a bracket rig on my camera that you can put together for around $50, and it's pretty good once you practice the "steadicam walk"

Where is that thread you mentioned? HC1/3/5/7?


I believe he was talking about the subforum for the Sony HC1/3/5/7 consumer cameras:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=99

I have a FigRig and would say that if you want something you can walk in a crowd with, the FigRig would be it. Will you get very steady footage walking? Probably not as much as you would with a stick type of device. The other thing you have to think about is, with shoulder mount, you have 'your eye level' point of view with ease. With the fig rig, you'll end up mostly with a neck level shot, lower than eye level. Don't get me wrong, I love my figrig, I've thrown my GL2, Z1u and V1u on it. And in many situations, the figrig is what I want. But if you want a steady shot while walking, running or standing, you might want to look into a true stabelizer.

I gave a thorough review of my figrig on this section of the board. Just hunt for it. I love the thing.

The steady stick seems like a nice item.. and I think i've seen steadicam jr's on ebay.. but who can tell, with them knocking off the names so they can sell their product.. I've seen someone selling a stabilizer for 100 bucks that was obviously home made out of those white pipes...

Btw i'm shooting with a canon GL2. Make me kind of wish I had one of those shoulder mounted cameras like the good old vhs days.. (basically the more expensive ones nowadays)

Where is that thread you mentioned? HC1/3/5/7?

If you've heard of any of these products and have something good or bad to say.. let me know so I can make sure I keep it in mind..

U-flycam

BOGEN MANFROTTO FIG RIG 595B CAMERA STABILIZER NEW (very oddly shaped.. I don't know if I'd want to walk around with it, lol)

Flycam 3000 Steadycam Stabilizer

Steady Tracker

Steadycam Flycam Pro

SD-5 Steadycam Stabilizer

The rest of them just call them selves "camera support stabilizers" .. so I can't be specific.. Just at least let me know what is junk, because i'm tempted to buy anyone of these items.

I did find one for 300 that had not quite a vest, but some type of support strap for the body..

Well thanks for your input

Hi Jenna -
Shooting weddings you have the "worst" of all possible shooting situations, you can either lock off on a tripod and get an overview, or you can move about and get a dynamic production - thus why 2 or more cameras are really recommended - I shoot 4 so I'm in a lot of places at once...

The link to the other DVi forum was covered - the thing is you'll need heavier brackets for the heavier cam (GL2). I attached a couple pix of one I use with my Z1 (just a single bracket for the heavier cam seems to work OK for me, and the ergo hand grip is good).

The Steady Stick is pretty good, and it has a shoulder contact point - you can detach the cam plate/shoulder mount from the upright via a Quick release that is similar to air hose couplers (but NOT the same). I have a stretch camera strap on my upright so I can detach without the thing flailing around (much), and it's pretty close to where I want it to be when I re-attach.

I've also been experimenting with an old Optex shoulder mount (there's a copy sold on Ebay for around $40) - it's good, but I still get lower back pains that the Steady Stick avoids entirely...

The "downside" to ANY device which attaches to your body is that ALL motion gets transferred unless you have a high end articulated/sprung rig to take the motion out.


Handheld stabilizers rely on your arms to be the "shock absorbers", and if you are reasonably careful and learn the funky groovy "steadicam glide", you can walk around fairly effectively without TOO much jolting. If you walk like Godzilla, then NOTHING will solve the problem!

Many of the rigs rely on a counterweight (steadytracker, "plumber specials", etc.) to "balance" the camera - this works to some degree, but you can achieve similar results with a monopod dangling off the bottom of your cam, which some people swear by. While the concept is good, it adds weight to your rig (bad if you have to stand for ANY time at all), and I find the counterweight tends to introduce sway unless perfectly balanced to the cam.

Some of the handhelds add a gimbal/bearings/swivel of some sort to help smooth out the jolting - plusses are it does work, minuses are that it can be very touchy to calibrate and balance. The REAL steadicams (the brand, not the "generic description") are about as smooth and easy to set up as you'll get, but you'll pay for them typically.

The Fig Rig works on the principle of using your arms for shock absorbing and by spacing your hands out away from the cam, you get better "horizon control" and less twitching side to side (actually almost none).

The bracket rig I use is based on the same idea and is cheap(er). As noted by Steven, you have great freedom of movement with this sort of rig, but you'll find your arms tend naturally to not want to go much above shoulder level (you can do it, just a bit tiring), so you have to watch your perspective unless you want the "hobbit-cam view".

The "Flycams" are Indian knockoffs of the Glidecam - might be OK, but my suspicion is you get what you pay for...

The SD5 is someone's home brew stabilizer, but it looks interesting - you'll find lots of "home brewed" rigs on Ebay... some are better than others. This one looks like at least the guy knows what he's doing...

The SteadyTracker is a manufactured version of the simpler handheld designs - it works, but I found it too heavy and awkward - seen others use it to good results as you can fake "crane" shots with it.

Hope that doesn't confuse things too much for you - the bottom line is most of the "stabilizers" will improve things to some degree, but there's a wide range of results...

After testing most of the designs if not every implementation, I'll dream of the Merlin with their vest (somewhere in the 2-3k range I think), but I'll be quite happy with my brackets for $50. Compact, easy to use and I get 80+% of the fancier rigs with far less hassle, plus I can do some wild motions more like a tracked camera because I'm not locked into a rig forcing me to stay perfectly level...

Hope that helps you a bit in your quest. Things to keep in mind are how heavy/big your camera is, and what type of shooting you'll be doing, and of course budget!

DB>)

what you need is a turtle-x (yes , it sounds silly)

I see where the turtle-x got it's name, but that piece of a equipment is a bit to much for me right now..

Well I'm still pretty much confused, I was thinking more about going with the steadystick, but, then i found a thread on this forum (or maybe it was another one...?) and someone asked if they should buy one.. and I didn't seem to convinced.. But I watched the little video about the steadystick on dvcreators.. and it seems like a nifty device, you can do a variety of shots with it, but there was no video showing what the video taken by the stick looked like.. thats what I really wanted to see..

There is a steadicam jr with a monitor on ebay for $279.00.. sales about to end in 10 hours. all the original accesories are include as is the instruction tape and Instruction Booklets.. SHOULD I GET IT? Looking at it in the box, not assembled, I can't tell what it looks like, and the steadicam jrs on the actual website look alot different than most stabilizers i've seen.. Since this is a name everyone trusts.. (assuming that it is a true steadicam jr.. like i said.. i can't tell) Would it be a better investment? if you want to see the auction, heres the number, 230134666465.

The second item I'm looking at is the Flycam, I don't think it's the indian version (u can usually tell because all the example pictures) It's item number 300115074530, looks pretty professional, comes with the body support which is something I REALLY would like.. I'd use it without it of course, but for times when i'll be shooting for longer periods of time..

Those are the two i'm narrowing down to.. Unless you suggest otherwise of course.. Try to let me know within the next like 9 hours..

THANKS SO MUCH for all your help!

Hi Jenna -

The steady stick is not bad for the $, but it is limited if you move around - it stabilizes/supports the cam well when you're not moving, but if you move... every jolt goes to the cam unless you've got an additional stabilizer taking the bumps out (or see below).

The Flycam looks like the Indian version, but the seller is US based - they've been on Ebay for a while, so should stand behind what they sell, might be worth a shot? I'm not bought from that particular seller, but have seen some really cool stuff listed by them, guess they liked the Flycam enough to import some in bulk. Maybe it's better done than the origin suggests... the design has been around for a while, and many home brew units are based off this design. I know the balance of the handle gimbal is CRITICAL (otherwise the cam will tend to have a mind of its own), and I'd be curious to see if they got that right. The body support isn't far off from what I cobbled up with the modded steadystick and VZ - you can go on and off the pod as needed, so you can stand with it on the pod, and detach when you need to move - that concept has worked OK for me.

The JR is a legit unit, they fold down really compact, so the seller just showed it all in the box. BTW, he's also got one with a color monitor mislisted as a "steadican JR" for $350. I think there's a 7 pound weight limit, but unless your GL is really tricked out/acccessorized, it should be under that.

As much as I suspect the JR is a better product, you will find it limiting if you're shooting for any length of time unless you are an arm wrestling champ - it's awesome for short scenes and takes, but you're not going to stand and hold the rig for half an hour...

Maybe this helps - If you need a rig that can do both static type AND motion shots (wedding work in particular), a handheld stabilizer with a support you can mount to when you're not moving is probably the best you can hope for, even if the stabilizer isn't "the greatest".

Keep in mind you'll need to learn how to balance whichever rig you go with - allow time to test various configurations (with and without various accessories, different size batteries, different weights on the rig itself) - this is good for honing your balancing skills so you can do it on the fly under fire! The whole balancing thing is an art unto itself, and then there's "the walk". Dig around a bit, and you'll find more about these things!

Good luck with whatever one you go with, there's a learning curve, but the smoother results are worth it!

DB>)

I did purchase a shoulder support type system, just attaches around the shoulder with the support pad resting on your chest, so thats what I will use for long shoots, which would otherwise be tiring, I don't know if it's the greatest product, but for the price, I figure it will be worth it.

Instead of going with the jr, i think i'm going to go for the flycam, with the body support. I don't expect the body support to be all that great, and like you said, will probably pick up my movements, but i'd like to have it in addition to the stabilizer.

Plus it's saying it comes with a 30 day money back guarantee, the one i'm looking at does say it is a us distributor for the came product offered by india.. they have 100% positive feedback, so I think that I feel confident enough to just go for it..

If I end up buying it I will let everyone know what i think of it, assuming that I learn how to use it right, can anyone point me to any websites that offer tips or tutorials on how to use/walk with a stabilizer? that would be great..

thanks for all your help

May I ask why you insist to get a stabilizer? For the amount money you get, it will be plenty to buy a tripod or monopod to get very good static shot. The material cost for a good stabilizer for your camera will be more than the money you want to pay.

Regards
Leigh

Leigh brings up a very good point - when going down this road, you should be aware of what a stabilizer can and cannot do, and equally aware of what factors make one system better than another. The oprator has everything to do with how good the shot looks in the end, but that's beyond a certain level of mechanical precision. No matter how good the operator, sometimes you simply cannot overcome the physical limitations of the rig itself. In your budget range, expecting top-quality performance out of a full rig would be a bit foolish. Handheld may be another story. As the complexity of the rig grows, the expense does exponentially for this simple reason - every part you add has a tollerance of error to it. The more parts that depend on one another, the smaller the tollerances have to be.

Equipment first - In that price range, you may be able to find a handheld stabilizer that does what you want (Steadiam Jr.) and actually does it well. The absolute most important part of any stabilizer (aside from the op) is the gimbal. It all depends on what you expect out of the system, but look for real ball bearings in the gimbal, as opposed to nylon hardware or metal-on-metal harware store specials. The smoother the gimbal, the less effort you have to put into the shot, and consequently the more delicate the move you can make.

Also look at the stage. The majority of the cheap rigs make it slow and diffucult to balance the topstage. Balancing should be EASY. Ive read so many posts on here about how people buy stabilizers and never get the rig balanced at all! If the system is too hard or slow to get set up, it's not worth your money in the first place. An out-of-balance rig is essentially a novelty - it can be fun to play with...once...but what can you really expect to do with it? Here is an essential truth of stabilizers - "Steadicam"-style stabilizers work because they allow the operator to use very light force to control the camera movements. They separate the camera's movement through space and weight support from the camera's tilt/pan control. If you're fighting the rig to make up for balance, you're essentially fighting the stabilizer and working against it. A lot of balance problems could be operator error, but I have seen few low-cost systems that have anything more than x-y screw down plates. Not very precise.

Ok, now for operating. How long will the shots be? If they are short enough, with a light camera, you'll find that you can do some pretty nice stuff without the vest and arm. If you're worried that the body-worn system will "pick up [your] movements," then seriously consider NOT getting it. If that look is acceptable, try counter-balancing the camera on your shoulder - a LOT cheaper, and you can get some very good results (see: Children of Men). If you practice handheld (cam on shoulder), you can get some REALLY good results even when walking - which was the initial goal, correct? Stabilizers do this as well, but to achieve a smoothness any better than handheld, again, you'll need something with precision. Stabilizers are not magic, they don't simply turn shakey footage to crisp awesome images. It will take a lot less time and money to get good stuff handheld than with a stab. That said, stabilizers, when used correctly, can be a lot of fun and dramatically add to the value of shots.

And for the "walk?" There's a LOT of info out here about how to walk with a stabilizer. Unfortunately, it has clouded the air a bit because little of it is actually helpful or accurate. If you're "padding" your steps in a full rig, you're essentially bypassing the arm. The arm's job is not just to support the weight of the sled, but also to isolate your movement from the camera. Duck-walking will tire you out pretty quickly, especially if the posture is off. If you have a stabilizer with a spring-style arm, WALK NORMALLY. "Steadicam Walk" actually refers to the half-sideways method of walking while semi-facing the rig off your hip. If you're wearing a full rig, and slowly adjust your body position to where it feels best, you'll notice that the rig is just off your hip, and you're semi-facing it. The "duck-walk," popularized by may of the lower-end systems is more a correction for holding the rig WAY too far out.

Now, here's something to think about - the "Classic Missionary" position in Steadicam has everything to do with the way the inventor felt comfortable. Operating with the rig off the left hip is now normal, off the right is "goofy." For the big rigs, operators have monitors low on the post to help frame the shot. Film and most big video cams don't have monitors onboard, so this is an absolute necessity. BUT, in the world of small DV/HDV/etc... cameras, there ARE built-in monitors, and there is a convention that the flip-out screens are on the left side of the cam. Most of the small handheld stabilizers do not have sled-mounted screens. Why does any of this matter? Because most Steadicam operators are taught on larger rigs to fly with the sled off the left hip. This trickles down and users starting on the little handheld devices are also taught to fly on that side, even though it obscures the ONLY screen they can use to frame a shot. To compensate, the sled is often held in front of the body which
a) makes the user crane the shoudlers forward to see
b) makes the op more tired
c) allows more arm-involvement in the shot (shakey)
d) forces a duck-walk because of the orientation of the shoulders to the feet

NOW, that's not to say it's wrong to fly on the left hip with a handheld rig, just more difficult to do correctly. For users starting from scratch ON A RIG WITHOUT A MONITOR, I would personally suggest learning "goofy." This allows proper posture to be practiced, while still offeing a clear view of the monitor. If the user steps up, all proper big rigs can be used on that side too. The drawback to this method is that most people are right-handed...meaning that with a handheld rig you'll be supporting the weight with your weaker hand. However, you'll be doing the "finesse" hand with your right hand, so who knows? May turn out just fine.

For the best info about anything moving-camera related, check out Gerrettcam.com. He has a wealth of knowledge on the subject...and happens to have invented Steadicam. Also read the manuals from stabilizers like the merlin to get a better idea of how things should work.

In the end, stabilizers are what you put into them, both money-wise and passion-wise. Invest a lot of yourself into it, and enough cash to make the rig transparent, and you and your clients will be quite happy.

NOW, that's not to say it's wrong to fly on the left hip with a handheld rig, just more difficult to do correctly. For users starting from scratch ON A RIG WITHOUT A MONITOR, I would personally suggest learning "goofy." This allows proper posture to be practiced, while still offeing a clear view of the monitor. If the user steps up, all proper big rigs can be used on that side too. The drawback to this method is that most people are right-handed...meaning that with a handheld rig you'll be supporting the weight with your weaker hand. However, you'll be doing the "finesse" hand with your right hand, so who knows? May turn out just fine.


I'd second the idea of going "goofy" on a handheld rig. But, I know that when I flew the Merlin, that I was perfectly able to have it goofy without switching hands. I was still holding the handle with my right hand.

Jaron; Wow. That is one of the most informative and best Steadicam related posts I've ever seen on a forum.

I am in 100% agreement with everything you said.

- Mikko

Hey Jaron,

Good points on everything. The issue of the monitor/operating side needs a little clarification, however. The monitor on rigs that have one is mounted where it is to help distribute the weight of the system. Also, by placing it in the center relative to the post, it is not obstructed by anything - making it viewable regardless of which side the operator is on. Any operator, whether regular or goofy, frequently switches sides of the camera depending on the shot. The side the arm is mounted to the vest does not change, but the side the operator is on can change many times during the same shot (see attached pictures). With a monitor on only one side of the camera, the operator is more restricted with regards to how they may move themselves and the rig.

Yeah not so clear, thanks for elaborating Afton.

On the rigs without monitors, it is a lot more limiting. As a disclaimer, I don't own a handheld rig, so this is based on the couple of times I've flown merlins. I learned to operate regular on a full rig, and that's how I work. I noticed that when flying the merlin in the same manner, I was fighting to see the screen, so i swapped hands and flew it goofy, which afforded a much better view of the camera's LCD. Not ideal (going against my muscle memory built up to this point), but still a much cleaner view of the screen. So the idea is that if you have no prior experience on one side or another, and you're getting a sled without a monitor, you may try flying over your right hip, so you can see the flipout LCD on your camera unobstructed. The great thing about the big rigs is that with the monitor in the center, the sled works equally well facing any direction (unless the camera or sled hits your body...), so you could learn "goofy" and step up to a full rig and keep operating in that style. Wow, that still sounds confusing....hmmm.

By the way, Afton's website (steadishots.org) is a FANTASTIC resource to check out, in one place, a huge number of steadicam shots. For anyone interested in knowing what a Steadicam can do, this is a great place to look to see many styles of many operators. Some stuff is flashy, other stuff is mechanically clean and almost invisible...a lot of stuff is represented, surly enough to inspire a few more hours practicing on the line. Afton, on a very personal note - thank you for the site, it's a huge service to all of us!

Yeah not so clear, thanks for elaborating
By the way, Afton's website (steadishots.org) is a FANTASTIC resource to check out, in one place, a huge number of steadicam shots. For anyone interested in knowing what a Steadicam can do, this is a great place to look to see many styles of many operators. Some stuff is flashy, other stuff is mechanically clean and almost invisible...a lot of stuff is represented, surly enough to inspire a few more hours practicing on the line. Afton, on a very personal note - thank you for the site, it's a huge service to all of us!

My pleasure, Jaron. Whereabouts in NYC are you and do you have a rig of your own? Recently, a good Steadicam friend of mine hosted a little gathering of folks to run around the back yard with our rigs. Great for ops old, new, and pre-new. I'm sure it will happen again sometime before summer is out. If you're interested, give me your info and I'll let you know. You can find my contact info on my website, or about a million other places on the net.

Peace,
Afton

Fantastic summary Jaron. Just one correction - it's "Garrettcam.com", not "Gerrettcam.com"

Jaron, excellent information. But one thing puzzles me. If the real Steadicam walk is "walking normally," why is so much emphasis put on practice, practice, practice? Exactly what moves/skills/etc does one need to practice to become proficient? Thanks!

It's all about the control of the sled. If you just wrap your hand around the post, you completely remove the isolation that the gimbal provides. But, if you don't touch the post, you can't frame your shots. So, what you need to be able to do is "feather" your touch, and be able to frame, hold a consistent shot while moving, and move the sled about in space. That, plus being able to repeat your shots relatively well, can take quite a bit of practice. The walking also may not be special, but learning to safely navigate obstacles, set pieces, and all the rest you'll encounter can be a struggle too, because of the immense amount of multitasking going on.

It's something like learning how to dribble a basketball and then calling yourself a basketball player--there's a bit more to it than that!

So the technique you practice may be even more in the hands than the feet?

Given that just standing still, a good Steadicam operator can still deliver a substantially different shot than a mediocre one, I'd say yes indeed, much of it comes through the hands rather than the feet. And the footwork is more to do with placement and timing of the steps rather than smoothness (other than the fact that rough steps may cause your upper body to shift or jar which will translate through to your hands also). A good Steadicam operator makes it look easy, which is to say that his/her body seems totally relaxed and in rhythm with itself (much like a basketball player, once again).

So just as some people are born with a "dancer's body," are some born with a "SC Operator's body"? I mean, is there any hope for a klutz who works at it?

Wow, how did i misspell Garrett's name? Anyways...

Charles has some great examples.
I agree that there seems to be more focus on the hands when it comes to practice, but like many skills - that's not the whole answer. Ask any boxing coach how they know if a fighter will win or lose, and they'll say "watch his feet." It may be all about the hands, but the more work you can do with your legs in terms of getting yourself into a good position, the less your body will have to do to compensate. Steadicam too. Think about it this way - with a weight cantilevered off your body, your center of gravity shifts towards the weight...outside your body in some cases! This is especially true with heavier loads, but the principal is true with any steadicam. You're supporting a load outside your body. The further it is from your own C.G., the more effort you have to expend to keep it from pulling you on your face.

The first question you'll hear from an instructor at a workshop will likely be "are you under it?" If you let go with your hands, will the rig hover where it is? Can you make your whole move, keeping the rig off your hip without hands? How about a switch. once the rig's in motion, how do you go from pulling your character to pushing him/her down a hallway? These are some of the "dance moves" of steadicam. And yes, the fine tuning of horizons, headroom, and frame edges (hand-skills) make up 90% of the "is it a good shot" skill-set...BUT, to be able to pull off that finesse, you can't be fighting yourself or the rig. That's where the balance and footwork comes in. Technically speaking, Steadicam is ENTIRELY about isolating forces. The two-handed operating approach was developed to limit the demands on each hand. The arm was developed to support the weight of the sled. These things exist to allow the operator to separate his/her own locomotion from that of the camera, while maintaining complete and delicate control over it. The less effort you need to control the pan/tilt or boom of the sled, the more precise you will be. Put your body where it needs to be, and you'll find that you use a LOT less effort to control the sled.

Like any skill, it does take a lot of practice. There's no lithmus test to determine whether or not you'll be the next Larry McConkey. Like the skill itself, there are a LOT of factors... but having an open mind and schedule certainly help. In the end, it is what you make of it. I've seen a lot of people very interested in the tech-side of steadicam take a workshop and decide not to pursue it. I've seen people come and go, lured by the "money" side of things... If you choose to try it, I would suggest at LEAST a 2-day workshop, if not a longer workshop. They are expensive, but education is a cheap investment compared to a poorly learned and selected Steadicam. And in the end, the thing that will keep you practicing, keep you writing checks for gear, and likely keep you employed will be your love of it.

At the PA workshop, I was given a nice tidbit of knowledge - the people who "make it" in Steadicam are the people who can't imagine themselves without Steadicam. It's a very specialized skill, it's terribly expensive, but once it bites you, you'll know what the addiction feels like.

Taking the isolation of body from camera to a theoretical extreme, could a good SC operator take a closeup of a static object while jumping up and down, and have the shot look like it's static?

The answer to that, Philip is, theoretically, yes.

On a film I just finished shooting yesterday, I had a young operator who has being doing Steadicam for a few years. Watching him work through the physical and mental side of the task at hand reminded me a lot of myself in the early days so this subject is quite relevant to me right now.

Jaron as usual is dead-on, and his imparted wisdom about not being able to imagine yourself without Steadicam is so true. It doesn't require a "natural" ability--I wasn't one of those myself--but I have had taught students who grasped the balance and grace of operating very quickly (we would privately threaten to take those guys out at the knees, as they would be stealing jobs from us soon!) However, most people who are adept at walking upright can become fine Steadicam operators if they truly apply themselves.

When being a Steadicam operator meant making a minimum $65K initial purchase, there was a lot more at stake and motivation to get good at operating so you could make your money back. Now that one can pick up a little stabilizer for $500-$2500 and it to your collection of gear (skatewheel dolly, jib arm, shop lights etc) that everyone seems to have these days, there is a different definition of "filmmaker" developing that includes the job category of cinematography and operator (rolled in with director, producer, editor etc). but there is also a growing tendency for these filmmakers to want and expect their tools to be dirt cheap, quick to learn and easy to use. While the Steadicam-type stabilizers have indeed become dirt cheap, relatively speaking, the skill required to operate them is virtually the same as it has been since the early days. The lighter rigs require less strength and can be used with less attention to proper form, but also require a lighter touch to achieve the best results, which is a straight-up tradeoff in my mind.

Back to observing my operator--many times he was frustrated on set after we finished a shot, because he understood the notes I had given him after each take and "got" the design of the shot, but he couldn't always translate that into a perfect take. However, as I would always tell him, being able to visualize what IS the perfect take is a large part of the battle; many operators will never really be able to think in those terms and no matter how technically proficient they become with the machine, their shots will always be lacking. The mechanical skill of operating Steadicam, of being able to reign in the forces and work your body around the rig completely independently of the frame, that's something that comes with enough practice and dedication; but then the real fun begins as you no longer have to put much thought into how to get the lens exactly where you want it, but can instead focus your energy into the construction of the shot and all of its elements.

People often wonder, how long does it take to get to that point? Realistically, it is years, not months. For many people (often, those with that garageful of filmmaking tools), this is too long and they have other things they'd rather play with that offer more immediate gratification, or they simply don't care that much about the finer points of operating Steadicam. But for those who obsess about their work, who watch all of their raw footage and deconstruct it and think about what they would have done differently, how it is better than the last shoot and what they need to work on, those are the folks (like my recent operator) who will take it to that joyous level where the rig responds to you like a musician playing an instrument.

This is very helpful info! It really puts all the opportunities and challenges in context.

Here's another hypothetical: you're about to watch two takes of the same shot, which is a medium shot following along with someone who's walking across a bumpy field. (IE, a POV of the person's companion.) The camera operator had the same bumps to deal but someone guided him so he wouldn't trip or fall.

One take was your camera op's first-ever shot with a Steadicam.
The other take was done handheld, with OIS on.

What do you expect to see when you compare the two takes?

The handheld shot will not benefit from OIS, by the way--that works with more subtle vibration and shake, not the jarring jitter that comes from heavy walking.

Part of the question is tricky in that you didn't specify how good the handheld shooter is at shooting handheld! If they were a novice, the framing is likely to be as sloppy as the novice Steadicam operator, but in a different way (the Steadicam shot will probably have a lot of pitch and roll and over-correction, while the handheld shot will be erratic and jarring and a little out-of-control as the novice is unused to walking in a controlled fashion over uneven terrain).

Since so much is shot handheld these days, including features and TV, I think that people are used to the bounce inherent in handheld so they would think the handheld looks better than the "seasick" look a newbie Steadicam operator would induce. However, most people after about 10 hours of practice with a Steadicam should be able to perform this shot in a way that vastly improves over the handheld shot, even if it is not perfect. And after probably 40 hours in the rig, they should be able to make it nearly perfect.

And in terms of practice time to achieve a certainl level of proficiency, a Flyer (for example) would have a more gentle learning curve than an Ultra 2?

As I said before, the tradeoff is the weight of the system. With an Ultra2, you would need to learn how to maneuver with 50-70 lbs hanging off you and build up your stamina, whereas the Flyer is virtually weightless on the body in comparison. However, the increased inertia of the Ultra means the shots will be inherently more stable than with the bantamweight Flyer, which requires a lighter touch. We big rig fliers often talk about our ideal camera, which has just enough mass to be nicely inert but not so much that it handicaps your mobility or wears you out. Cameras that are considered "squirrely" because they are too light to be ideal are somewhere in the 50 lb vicinity (that's camera and rig combined), so you can imagine how we feel about a 20 lb Flyer setup...!

Well, Charles, I'll bite: how do you feel when you face a squirrely camera? You've been hired to shoot with a 10 or 12 lb. camera and a Flyer. (Unlikely as this may be.)

Do you anticipate a lot of reshooting, a stressful job, more time to setup and/or complete each shot...? Or are you tempted to turn down the job?

Thanks again for your insights. Examples of what makes a board like this so indispensable!

Philip:

Depends on the job. Our own Nate Weaver brought me in to shoot a multi-camera concert last year with the Sony 350, which stripped down was about that light (and I suitably stripped down my rig to lightweight mode to work with it, but my sled was probably still 2x as heavy as the Flyer's). That was great because I was in the rig for quite a long time and I was willing to make the sacrifice for longevity.

I demo'd the Flyer to David Lynch on the set of "Inland Empire" and he decided to have me do a shot (which I didn't expect at all) and had a bit of a rough time because the rig was so squirrely and I wasn't used to it.

So my thought would be this: if I was asked to do a "serious" Steadicam move with a lightweight camera, I would simply add a bunch of weight via lead plates and put it on my big rig (and have done just this in the past for small projects). If I needed to have the mobility or longevity, I would use a Flyer and get some practice time in with it. I'm actually building a lightweight sled right now that will be somewhere inbetween a Flyer and my big rig for just this purpose since these little cameras are here to stay.

The Flyer is more than capable of making beautiful shots, but it is a slightly different skill, just like the Merlin.

I used to regard the Arri 16 SR1 with a Super Speed Distagon prime as the fun camera, it was the lightest camera that the Steadicam III could carry on the arm.

Charles, I wonder if you've ever tried a Merlin and, if so, what you thought. That must be a real culture shock for you!

BTW, I just noticed two interesting things about the Indicam website:

1. They have a "Pilot" stablizer of their own, which makes me wonder if they're headed for a tradename confrontation w/Tiffen.
2. They have a $35 training video which looks useful for new users regardless of brand. Anyone seen it or heard opinions about it?

...They have a $35 training video which looks useful for new users regardless of brand. Anyone seen it or heard opinions about it?


Here's my opinion/review:


http://hbsboard.com/index.php/topic,2815.msg25506.html#msg25506

Charles, your review of the Flyer was very helpful. Ditto for this one. Thanks!

The only glitch with the DVD is, they don't make it easy to order. I guess you have to email them and arrange to purchase it.

If you read thelink on my review page you could get it for 30 dollars. If you are interested just send me your full name, phone number and e-mail and I will get it to Terry. My e-mail is c.king@telia.com

BTW, the dvd has bloopers scenes added to it at the end.

BTW, I just noticed two interesting things about the Indicam website:

1. They have a "Pilot" stablizer of their own, which makes me wonder if they're headed for a tradename confrontation w/Tiffen.
2. They have a $35 training video which looks useful for new users regardless of brand. Anyone seen it or heard opinions about it?


Hi Philip, I have the Training video from Indicam. To cut it short,
" Its GOOD".

Thanks Sean!

Charles, I wonder if you've ever tried a Merlin and, if so, what you thought. That must be a real culture shock for you!

BTW, I just noticed two interesting things about the Indicam website:

1. They have a "Pilot" stabilizer of their own, which makes me wonder if they're headed for a tradename confrontation w/Tiffen.
2. They have a $35 training video which looks useful for new users regardless of brand. Anyone seen it or heard opinions about it?

Philip,

We did have a talk with both Garrett and Frank R. of Tiffen at the Tiffen booth during NAB this year. They didn't know we had trademarked the PILOT name because it didn't appear in their Google search etc. (We like to keep low key). We don't exactly know what the repercussions will be but since we had the name and have been selling Indicam PILOTs for over two years we aren't in any violation. We're trying to see how we can resolve this so both of us can win. We have great respect for Garrett.

Regarding the "Stabilizer Basics" training DVD, email me directly through our website (http://www.indicam.com/index.php?option=com_contact&Itemid=3) and we will get a DVD off to you quickly.

Tery
Indicam

==================

Thanks, Terry. Email sent.

Interesting, Terry. I've heard the name "Pilot" bandied around for a few months but hadn't made the connection yet. Looking forward to hear how it all turns out.

Good to know that Terry and Indicam don't immediately think "lawsuit!" -- all too common these days.

Philip,

That's the very last thing we think of. We know that Tiffen wasn't trying to steal our trademark. Sometimes things like this just happen. We'll work it out between us to our mutual benefit.

Your DVD is in the mail and thanks.

How about i-PILOT and s-Pilot.

Tery
Indicam

I wonder what they'd say if you proposed that!

Hey Philip make sure to let me know what you think of the Indicam vid, if you could please. I am in debate on whether to go for the "glidecam smooth shooter" or the "Indicam". Unfortunately I am a very visually inclined individual, as most of us are, and I have found a-lot more vids about the glidecam over the Indicam so it would be nice to see a little more of it in action. I might just have to buy a copy of "stabilizer basics" if it's pretty good.

Thanks,
Ryan

Ryan,

Almost 90% of the "Stabilizer Basics" training DVD was shot using the Indicam PILOT with the Sony Z1U. It would be a fairly good way to see what the rig can do in a training situation.

You can also view some Flash clips including the latest showing the difference between Gimballed vs. Non-Gimballed sleds. The gimballed shots were done using an Indicam PILOT.

http://www.indicam.com/media/Flash/flvplayer.html

We shot it in full telephoto mode to exaggerate any movement and show the differences between the two types of systems. As you know, using full telephoto is not what most steadicam operators do unless they are real professional like Charles P.

Tery
Indicam

The Video definitely looks well made. One thing I have noticed as a difference between the Smooth Shooter footage and the Indicam footage is the tendancy of the camera to pop occasionaly from side to side and kind of float around on the shooting plane with the Indicam Pilot. I'm trying really hard to talk myself into the Pilot, but the footage shot with the Smooth Shooter just looks a little smoother. Help me out here Terry, talk me into the Pilot. After all it does seem like a better bang for the buck.

I shoot with a Canon XL2 (front heavy) and would be using the rig very often. I would do quite a bit of walking/running and am really looking for the option to capture flying (floaty) tracking shots as well as precision mapped dolly style shots.

Will this unit suffice without years of practice?

Ryan,

Could you give me an example of an Indicam clip that you're talking about so I can better answer your questions? I hope you weren't referring to the "Gimbal vs Non-Gimbal" demo I just did as it was done in full telephoto.

We believe the Indicam PILOT gives a much better bang for the buck. We are friends with the guys at Glidecam and we respect them and like their system and but we like ours much better. This is why:
---------------------
Our system is a lot easier to balance with great gimbal linearity and one of the largest boom ranges in the industry.

Our gimbal adjusts up and down the post for greater balancing options. After all, where can you find a sled that can balance a half pound camera and then and eight pound camera?

You can carry the whole rig in the backpack and then be operating in less than ten minutes once you get used to it.

We give you a mic stand adapter so you can "carefully" use it with a good, wide base mic stand to help you balance the sled. (Please be careful and put some kind of counter weight on the base though as Murphy's Law always wants to make your camera fall over. We haven't lost one yet though.)

Our camera stage is simplified with only two wing nuts (not eight bolts) to loosen in order to adjust the x and y positions.

We have a "hybrid arm" which means the lower arm is made of twice as thick aluminum as the upper arm so it won't torque under stress. Kind of like the human arm.

We have specially worked bearings with a low insertion force so they can remain very frictionless.

Our arm is an endo-skeletal design where the "bones" are in between the springs (muscles). While the arms are very strong they are lighter that arms with the "bones" surrounding the springs. A lighter arm reacts quicker to outside forces i.e. bumps etc.

We offer the "Discreet Vest" which can be used under a jacket etc.

We also have the "High Shot" for a higher perspective.
----------------

With regards to dolly style shots...they are the hardest to achieve. Faster moving shots are much easier. It's sort of like a luxury car going over a bump fast or slow...the slow bump is more noticeable and harder to cover up.

We know about the XL2 as we finally found one in our area and set it up to see how hard it would be to balance. It wasn't that bad. You can see the video here:

http://indicam.com/media/PILOTflyingXL2.wmv (Our new springs are black by the way.)

We offer a 30 day return policy. You just keep the rig in new looking shape and pay for the return shipping and we'll refund your hard earned bucks.

With regards to you question "Will this unit suffice without years of practice?"...do you mean will it last a long time...YES! If you want to know if you can learn to be a very good steadicam operator the answer is...It depends on your natural ability and how much you do practice. We made the "Stabilizer Basics" training DVD to help knock off a great amount of trial and error time. We wished we had it when we first started learning.

Sorry for the long answer but you asked for it.

Any other questions?

Tery
Indicam