Let me start out by saying I am very new to video, so please forgive the basic question. I have been shooting stills with Canon film and digital cameras for many years, and am finding the transition to video very exciting, if not a little frustrating at times!

One thing I have noticed with my XH-A1, is that when zooming in or out, the zoom begins and ends rather drastically. On TV and in professional movies, the zoom's start/end is almost imperceptible. I find the result somewhat jarring on the A1.

I have used both the variable and constant zoom rates, but have not yet really found something that's a good as I would like. How do you make your zoom shots smooth?

You need a lanc remote to consistantly control the speed of the zoom.
look into the Canon ZR-2000 and the Canon ZR-1000. i've used the 1000 for years.

Julian, the A1's hand grip zoom rocker is a bit sensitive, but I haven't really had the problems you mention using variable mode. Perhaps you're using the zoom rocker on the handle, which is always constant.

Bill

A trick I have used is to use a constant speed zoom and the rocker control. The dial that can adjust constant speeds comes into play here. Start with the dial at 1 and start your zoom with the rocker, then start to turn up the dial to desired speed and turn it back down to 1 when near completion of the zoom. Assuming that the camera is locked down on a tripod and you use a light touch there is no camera shake.

The resulting zoom starts and ends very smoothly with this method.

in professional movies, the zoom's start/end is almost imperceptible. I find the result somewhat jarring on the A1.


That's because 99% of the Zooms you see in movies, are not Zooms.
They are dolly moves.

I think you are asking how to take the edge off the start or finish when using the zoom. In post cut into the zoom after the start and out before the end (with a nice linear light blend (dissolve)) and you will have a smooth clip with no "jarring" at the start or finish. This will allow the clip to appear to seamlessly transition from one image to the other in a fluid motion.
And also since you state you are new to video production my advice is unless this is an effect you are using in your production the less zoom the better.
Nothing gives a novice away more than over using the zoom effect.

good luck and enjoy this digital artform

Eric... hmmm, more equipment to buy! Let's see, Christmas is in December, my birthday in November... :) I'll take a look at the lanc remotes and see what they have to offer.

Bill, yes, I'm using the rocker on the hand-grip, though I haven't tried the technique James mentions, that of changing the speed as I zoom. I think I'll give that a shot before buying a lanc.

David, yes, you're probably exactly right, they're using dolly moves. I rather doubt most of the forum members use dollies, though, or am I wrong?

Dan, yes you're right, it is the sudden start and stop at the beginning and end of the zoom that bothers me. It looks too, "mechanical". You give a good suggestion about editing the zoom in post. I'll definitely give that a try. Oh, and don't worry, over-use of the zoom annoys the heck out of me too!

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

Sound advice Dan.
I find zooming, tilting and panning simultaneously can sometimes work quite well if you've got a decent head on your tripod, but broadly speaking avoid the temptation to touch the zoom. I'm frequently tempted to do the odd Zoom but very rarely do they make it into my FCP timeline. I usually keep mine on high speed so i can fram the shot more quickly.

Hi there

Some good advice there... zooming and shaky video points to amateur style so less is more here...

However to keep audio continuity, assuming lip sync is not an issue, I often zoom to reframe and cut it out in post to make it a clean cut, shifting the audio in the time line where necessary...

With the Z1 you can get fantastic slow zooms using the shot transistion function... these are far more contriolled and progressive than I could do...

Finally a zoom i use is the snap or crash zoom... this can be done and is not too intrusive if the action merits it...

There are rules but these are made to be broken so experiment an see what looks cool..

Regards
Gareth

That's because 99% of the Zooms you see in movies, are not Zooms.
They are dolly moves.

What is the advantage of a dollying, over zooming?

Also, how do you identify a dolly shot from a zoom? I believe I rad something once, but can't remember.

the dolly shot is very different than the zoom.

The dolly shot means the camera physically moves in relation to the subject you are shooting - the expensive sets have tracks set up and the camera and operator move along those tracks to keep the motion smooth.

They are much more natural as they move as we might, towards something, or travelling beside an object, ie following alongside the subject

you will be able to identify a dolly over a zoom by the perspective behind the subject - do a simple test with your camera - walk towards a subject, then go back and zoom towards the same place - and you'll see a very different view in the frame

you can use cheats for this, cheapman's version of expensive tracking - shopping cart, wheelchair, rollerblades, warehouse dollys (can't think of the real name) but i've seen pics of filmmakers holding the camera, leaning back on one of these, while the person behind pushes them - anything on wheels basically and usually 2 people to pull it off

I just picked up a wheelchair at a garage sale this weekend for this exact purpose

below is a quick link explanation
http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.asp?p=31096&seqNum=5&rl=1

another that covers all the lingo on shots/angles

http://www.mediaknowall.com/camangles.html

another interesting resource on camera angles when i was googling

http://www.tvcrit.com/Illustrations/Ch06/index.htm

What is the advantage of a dollying, over zooming?

Also, how do you identify a dolly shot from a zoom? I believe I rad something once, but can't remember.

The human eye doesn't zoom, so the "look" of a zoom is much less natural than a dolly shot. It therefore calls attention to the camera work, instead of letting the viewer concentrate on the subject.

Zooms should, in general, be avoided.

The lenses of pro video cameras have much better zoom controls than our handheld prosumer types. The zoom rocker is a true servo zoom, with infinitely variable speed, and the zoom drive can be disengaged entirely to allow manual zoom control.

Just to add on zooms. I have been paying more attention to docs shot in HD for pbs etc. And the one zoom that seems to be used quite a bit is the zoom out. They start in close on something, then pull back and reveal. For some reason that look isn't as bad.

But a pbs documentary approach is very different from a film treatment. So it depends on your final product. Run and gun, in your face news style documentaries also use quick zoom-in effects, and seem to get away with it. I just watched 'Control Room' (doc shot during the first few months of the Iraq war from the Arab news control room set up with all the visiting news groups) and the camera work was at times very bad, blown out whites, focusing on the fly, quick unsteady pans, zooms, etc but for that format, it was acceptable and almost lended to the stressy immediacy of the situation.

So as unnatural as they can be, in context, zooms do have their place.

trish

You can make smooth zooms with the Canon if you adjust the zoom control. It even has an auto feathering feature so you don't have to do it yourself.

However, there's nothing that shouts "Industrial in-house video!" like a zoom. I agree with the above comment that you can get by with some in some instances, but the best rule-of-thumb is to use the zoom for the purpose of changing focal length and shoot plenty of head and tail on every zoom so the editor can cut out the zoom part.

I learn so much here. Thanks to all.

You need a lanc remote to consistantly control the speed of the zoom.
look into the Canon ZR-2000 and the Canon ZR-1000. i've used the 1000 for years.

Whats the difference besides price....they look about identical on BandH

Ever try to do a single camera shoot of a one performance musical without a zoom?

The 2000 has the Magnify option and more control over the zoom speed.
I think there's a few more options too.

Brad-

I'm with you on that one. Worse yet is avoiding zoom and trying to cut together 2 performances. I've never seen an actor on stage do the same line exactly the same way in the same spot twice! Then, just to add to the complexity, add a pit orchestra. It doesn't matter how good the conductor is, the tempo is never the same. Ballet is a little easier, though. Even when the dancers aren't in exactly the same spot, a dissolve works wonders.

I am using my HV20 locked down wide and my XH A1 for the other shots. I still use the zoom on the XH A1 but not as much as a single cam shoot. Editing has been much easier, too, with 2 cams and one show to cut between. Since the final product is SD DVD, I can cheat and cut in a shot at about 110% with no loss of SD resolution, which also helps to reduce the need to zoom.

Doug,

Where do you stash the HV20? Or do you have someone watch it?

Ever seen a 8 to 17 year old boy be able to walk by an interesting machine and not go "I wonder what this little dohickey does?"

Although it would be great to have different angles, I keep both cams close to center stage near the back of the house at orchestra level. I block most of the row and half the row in front of the cams. This keeps everyone clear of my equipment. With the HV20 locked wide, I don't even touch it. The house is large enough that this isn't a problem. Plus, I have my HV20 on "Daddy long-legs," a big old Bogen tripod that extends to over 6 feet. I also have the benefit of living in a city and state where people generally leave other people's stuff alone. People just seem to mind their own business.

... I also have the benefit of living in a city and state where people generally leave other people's stuff alone. People just seem to mind their own business.

Sounds like Heaven... I just don't see me retiring to Alaska.

"I found it. Hey, it was just sitting there (running). I figured nobody wanted it." "Nobody said anything when I picked it up."

"Oh, I don't need a license to carry that. I just use it for show, mostly."

The difference between a zoom and a dolly in is the proportion of the objects in the image. So imagine a person 10 feet away, and another in view behind them 30 feet away - look at their sizes in the shot. Zoom in and the proportion remains the same. Dooly in and the nearest person grows in the frame faster than the person further away. You can do great 'weird' sfx shots using a dolly in and zoom out at the same time - the idsea is you adjust the zoom speed to the dolly in speed, so that the nearest person remains the same size in the shot - but the background knocks your socks off - very surreal and hitchcock/pop vide like. The perspective change as you get closer to an object is the natural way we see things, and a zoom just doesn't give the same effect.

Someone mentioned a pop video without a zoom, when doing single camera. Assuming a bit of editing is possible, shoot some out of context cut-aways - behind shots of the guitarists, the drummer thrashing around, a bit of keyboards without the hands - and then when you need to zoom - do it at a musical edit point every time and do it very quick, using the cutaways to cover the zooms - looks much better

Zoom, dolly, fast juddering pan, jiggle shot, rack focus to nothing, super fast cut series, all a matter of taste these days. I'm still not quite there with the fade to white "6 feet under" look, or the wobbley street cop video, but hey.

I can't really watch half of what's "in", but those guys get paid big bucks and are certainly "professional".

Do what makes your point. (Even if I hate your point)

You can make smooth zooms with the Canon if you adjust the zoom control. It even has an auto feathering feature so you don't have to do it yourself.


What zoom control are you reffering to with the auto feathering feature -- on camera? I've not read/heard about the feathering feature...

Ever try to do a single camera shoot of a one performance musical without a zoom?


I have done many one camera shoots and have had no problem using minimum zoom.
Shoot B roll with the camera during other performances. use SLOW MO on shots to fill time while leaving the audio track intact.
The camera runs for the full performance but the wide shots are used to substitute for the time zooming around.

the only zoom used in performance production is to zoom out slowly. then transition to another angle wide shot then a cut to the close-up again.
Done it a thousand times.
Zooming in then out then in is Uncle Jim and his HI8 production.

Awww.... I liked Uncle Jim's productions.

'Member that one where the sun was right behind little Julie's head and then the projector hung for a second and burned the film? Man, I've tried and tried but can't quite recreate that effect right. Maybe some new plug-ins.

Uhmmm... other performances??