PDF of HD200 Scene Files (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachment.php?attachmentid=3015&d=1178154950)

I have finally posted the HD200/250/201/251 versions of most of my original HD100 (http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=62835) scene files. I apologize for the long wait, but I wanted to redo them all with DSC's ChromaDuMonde 28R (http://www.dsclabs.com/chromadumonde.htm) and Toni chart (http://www.dsclabs.com/toni.htm) with cavity black before posting the second batch. I've retired the Gretag Macbeth chart.

You will also find a couple brand new scene files just for the HD200 series.
The first is my calibrated setting for a DSC ChromaDuMonde chart, called DSC CDM28 Chart. I am only including this scene file for research purposes. I would like others to start from scratch with their own DSC charts and see what their results are. My goal when I created this scene file was to find a "true to life" matrix setting that would translate perfectly down to NTSC colour space. The colours have hit their targets as closely as I can manage using the proper vectorscope gain, but I'm still not happy with the accuracy of reproduction on the blue side. I used the 16x5.5 stock lens as the "lowest common denominator" and tried to minimize the effects of vignette and white shading through careful choices of zoom and aperture. The results may be different with a different lens, even if white balance is set correctly.
If you own a DSC chart, please program, compare and share your results in this thread. My results are very different from Paulo's, so I'm curious what other members come up with?

The new file I'm most excited about I've named "SUPERWIDE" The new gamma curves in the HD200 series of cameras allow for even more dynamic range to be compressed into 8-bit HDV. By bringing the level of the new CINEMA curve down to its minimum, increasing the black stretch to 5 (which is about equivalent to 3 in the HD100) and manually dropping the knee to 80%, you can capture a VERY low contrast image. You should still manage your lighting ratios when in controlled situations, but this gives you even more room to play in post-production.
I recommend using ZEBRA bars at OVER100% as a guide to what your upper limit of exposure is. This will usually mean underexposing by a stop more than you are used to, but you will be controlling the highlights clipping point manually and still maintain an even exposure in your mids.
You will not want to use this scene file for straight to broadcast. It is designed for, and will require, proper colour grading. The basic idea is to render as much information as possible into HDV for the colourist to work with.

One noteworthy element of SUPERWIDE is that I spent hours trying to find the right combination of matrix controls to accurately represent all of the colours on the correct vector angles. As anyone who has ever played with the matrix knows, it is a constant game of give and take. Adjusting one element always has an effect on another. In the end I think I managed to recreate very accurate colours (as far as vector angles go) and even maintained the proper "violet" tone in NTSC. Please use a manual white balance and let me know how this new scene file works for you.

NOTE: If you plan to use any of the scene files that take advantage of WHITE PAINT function, you must set MANUAL white balance FIRST, and then manually adjust the R & B WHITE PAINT in the menus. White balancing after adjusting R & B WHITE PAINT will "zero" the white balance.


Right-Click and Save from this link (http://www.TimDashwood.com/.Movies/Dashwood_Scene_File_tests.ts) (38.9MB) to view a transport stream that includes comparison tests of:
1. Superwide
2. DSC CDM28 Calibrated
3. Film Noir
4. Warm
5. Warm Green (Amelié)
6. Bleach Bypass (Saving Private Ryan)
7. Cross-Processed Color Reversal (Three Kings)
8. Film Vert (The Matrix)
9. Close-Up Film Vert
10. Close-Up Cross-Process Color Reversal
11. Close-Up Bleach Bypass
12. Running guy Bleach Bypass

Note: This mpeg2 transport stream has not been re-compressed or colour corrected in any way. Only in-camera DSP was used to achieve the "looks." These tests were shot with the Fujinon 13x3.5mm lens, even though the scene files were designed with the 16x5.5mm.

Download the attached pdf for the HD200 Series Scene File Recipes.

A million thanks, Tim. There's gonna be a lot of happy souls now. I for one have felt handicapped without your recipes and those from Paolo. Thanks again :-)

Thanks Tim!
Very excited to finally see your looks the way they are meant to be.
I will have to get a color chart and learn to use it, but I'm excited to have a common ground to work with and discuss here.

Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. I use Cinewide on my HD 100 all of the time. Now, I'm ready to buy a 200, and I can use you super wide setting. Can't wait for your DVD to come out.

Cheers

Thank you very much Tim,
Santa Claus is back!
God bless you,
E

Going to try to out your scene file on my kids soccer game tomorrow.

My 250 settings have thus far made it really nice to not immediately want to go color correction happy. It seems I'm so used to feeling like I have to drop the Magic Bullet on my footage, that having some richer defaults makes it bearable - and possible - to shoot/capture/post within the hour, these soccer games (for immediate review).

I look forward to getting this on my camera and checking it out...

Hi Tim,
I've gone through all of your settings, taking a look at scenes in my living room. These are really useful, and practical!

The DSC CDM28 actually looks real nice for an uncorrected natural look.
Better than the "stock" setting, and sometimes we all must shoot some stuff that isn't going to get a treatment....



One question came up in applying settings for Film Vert.
If you put the Cinema setting ON, Then Color Matrix and Gamma are locked at [CINE] - as other settings indicate.
I assumed that cinema is off so that color matrix can be standard in this case - although perhaps matrix and gamma are both [CINE]?

I've backed up settings on the computer from the cards - it's much faster to load from scene files, but you learn much more putting them in manually, so i was happy not to go the easy route when first trying them.

Jeffrey: only 4 slots on a SD card, no matter what size, also 4 user slots in the camera itself.

You CAN get shutter at 1/120 by going into variable shutter mode in the switch menu. It sure takes a while to wind into it, but it will stay there until you change the custom shutter setting to something else (you can turn the shutter off). I don't think it will make that much difference from 1/100 though.

One question came up in applying settings for Film Vert.
If you put the Cinema setting ON, Then Color Matrix and Gamma are locked at [CINE] - as other settings indicate.
I assumed that cinema is off so that color matrix can be standard in this case - although perhaps matrix and gamma are both [CINE]?

Your right. Typo on my part. I will fix it this evening and upload a new pdf.

Tim, While we are on settings here, any updates on image noise comparision with the 200 series?
In an earlier post you mentioned that you turned detail down to help with noise issues when you first got the HD250.
The detail settings are still a bit confusing to me, with horizontal & vertical frequency and balance etc.
There has been some discussion of these settings with the HD100, do you use the same settings on the 200 series?
Detail settings get saved with the scene file right?

Hey Tim,

Are you going to make scene file settings for film mode only, or are you also making files for all shooting situations, 4:3 DV, 4:3/16:9 24P DV, and the rest?

Thanks.

Hey Tim,

Are you going to make scene file settings for film mode only, or are you also making files for all shooting situations, 4:3 DV, 4:3/16:9 24P DV, and the rest?

Thanks.

I haven't actually posted my own HD200 SCN files yet, and I'm not sure if I will. I've had doubts since I uploaded the original SCN files over a year ago.
I've thought alot about it and since so many 'personal preferences' are stored in the SCN file I'm considering not uploading them. It would force those who download the SCN file to work the way I work, with buttons,switches, detail programmed the way I like them.

BTW, these scene files should work just as well in DV mode. I specifically double-checked them with a NTSC scope and a downconverted signal to make sure they would translate legally into NTSC. The only one that may cause some problems is the "Cross-processed colour reversal."

Tim, While we are on settings here, any updates on image noise comparision with the 200 series?
In an earlier post you mentioned that you turned detail down to help with noise issues when you first got the HD250.
The detail settings are still a bit confusing to me, with horizontal & vertical frequency and balance etc.
There has been some discussion of these settings with the HD100, do you use the same settings on the 200 series?
Detail settings get saved with the scene file right?

I still have no definitive answer to the noise issue. However, my primary observation is that the HD200 and HD250 seem to be about a 1/2 stop more sensitive to light than the HD100 with the same settings. My original assumption was that the analog signal entering the DSP was exactly the same as the HD100, and therefore assumed that the DSP and new gamma curves were the culprit. I've tried almost everything to minimize the noise with DSP controls without much luck.
I have some other theories, but there is no point in sharing them right now.

The detail settings question requires a whole thread unto itself. I conducted a full set of tests on the 16x5.5 and 13x3.5 lenses with a bunch of combinations of detail settings.
Download it here (22.7MB): http://www.TimDashwood.com/.Public/HD100_Lens_rez_tests.zip

I was shooting some 2nd unit on a feature this weekend and had an opportunity to grab some comparison tests of the new HD200/250 scene files.

Right-Click and Save from this link (http://www.TimDashwood.com/.Movies/Dashwood_Scene_File_tests.ts) (38.9MB) to view a transport stream that includes comparison tests of:
1. Superwide
2. DSC CDM28 Calibrated
3. Film Noir
4. Warm
5. Warm Green (Amelié)
6. Bleach Bypass (Saving Private Ryan)
7. Cross-Processed Color Reversal (Three Kings)
8. Film Vert (The Matrix)
9. Close-Up Film Vert
10. Close-Up Cross-Process Color Reversal
11. Close-Up Bleach Bypass
12. Running guy Bleach Bypass

Note: This mpeg2 transport stream has not been re-compressed or colour corrected in any way. Only in-camera DSP was used to achieve the "looks." These tests were shot with the Fujinon 13x3.5mm lens, even though the scene files were designed with the 16x5.5mm.

I've added this link to the first post in this thread as well.

Tim,.

In the bleech bypass settings, do I set Stretch Level under BLACK COMPRESS to level 1? or 5? I set Compress level to 5.

Duke

Tim,.

Int he bleech by pass settings, do I set Stretch Level under BLACK COMPRESS to level 1? or 5? I set Compress level to 5.

Duke

It doesn't matter. The way it works now is that when black is set to COMPRESS, the only value that matters is the compress value. When set to NORMAL, neither value matters, and when set to STRETCH only the stretch value matters.

I think I liked the HD100 style better. There was less 'logic' involved in determining your value with a quick glance.

Have you reduced your detail?

No I haven't reduced detail because I find that with the mini35 it makes it worse. The detail is already less with the mini35, so reducing it further made it worse in my opinion. Unless you have other thoughts.

Duke

No I haven't reduced detail because I find that with the mini35 it makes it worse. The detail is already less with the mini35, so reducing it further made it worse in my opinion. Unless you have other thoughts.

Duke

I was just worried about what the extra edge enhancement might do to the ground glass grain. I haven't conducted any detail tests with the mini35.

If you are watching everything on a HD monitor and it looks good to your taste then don't change anything mid-stride.

I actually sent you an email before you started principal photography suggesting that you not compress the blacks so much, and maybe bring up the master black up in the bleach bypass setting. I'm not sure if you got it.
I was just concerned that you might be cutting down shadow detail unecessarily. You can always easily crush the blacks in post, in a controlled environment.

Are you comfortable shooting WYSIWYG with the bleach bypass scene file? Has your DP had any situations where it wasn't working as well as you'd like?

When in doubt about white clipping, try exposing for the hi-lights and then turn off black compress to obtain some more details in the mid-range.

Hi Tim,

Well done on the scene files. I'm doing some test footage on the 250 for JVC Australia this week to show the camera off a little and will definately put a few of these settings to work.

Well done and thanks for the work you've put in on them.

THE MAN HAS COME THROUGH AGAIN!
Thanks Tim...

Thanks Tim. I tried the files, and they are great. Really appreciate it.

Carl

Has anyone tested the 'warm green' and got some material to show how it turns out? We're going to do a videoclip pretty soon and I'm looking for a look simular to the 'Amelie' look.

We get the camera (using a hd111e (we're in Europe) on a friday afternoon and will be shooting saturday early, indoors and outdoors, so there isn't much time to test the different settings

Has anyone tested the 'warm green' and got some material to show how it turns out? We're going to do a videoclip pretty soon and I'm looking for a look simular to the 'Amelie' look.

We get the camera (using a hd111e (we're in Europe) on a friday afternoon and will be shooting saturday early, indoors and outdoors, so there isn't much time to test the different settings

The fifth sample in this test is the "Warm Green" setting.
Right-Click and Save from this link (http://www.TimDashwood.com/.Movies/Dashwood_Scene_File_tests.ts) (38.9MB) to view a transport stream that includes comparison tests of:
1. Superwide
2. DSC CDM28 Calibrated
3. Film Noir
4. Warm
5. Warm Green (Amelié)
6. Bleach Bypass (Saving Private Ryan)
7. Cross-Processed Color Reversal (Three Kings)
8. Film Vert (The Matrix)
9. Close-Up Film Vert
10. Close-Up Cross-Process Color Reversal
11. Close-Up Bleach Bypass
12. Running guy Bleach Bypass

Note: This mpeg2 transport stream has not been re-compressed or colour corrected in any way. Only in-camera DSP was used to achieve the "looks." These tests were shot with the Fujinon 13x3.5mm lens, even though the scene files were designed with the 16x5.5mm.

when I 'save as' I just get a small 8kb .ts file, which I can't play. How can you play this file (on a mac)?

*edit* it works.. thanks, looks great

We get the camera (using a hd111e (we're in Europe) on a friday afternoon and will be shooting saturday early, indoors and outdoors, so there isn't much time to test the different settings
Djee, you probably figured this out, but since you posted in the NEW HD200 settings thread, be sure that you get and use the settings for the HD100/110, since the cameras have completely different processing and settings.
The 100 settings are easy to find in the first post of the sticky thread:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=62835

Thanks for mentioning, because I hadn't even thought about that.

Any new Recipes for the 200? Find any 'truer colours'?

I just got a new jvc gyhd200 and im looking for the best colour adjustment I can put on it..

I want to thank Tim for these scene files. Thanks to them (and Paolo Ciccone's TrueColor) I can't get enough of shooting with this camera!

The interesting part for me is whether to shoot with the Superwide scene vs. the DSC setting. Obviously, Superwide provides you with the maximum ability to grade the color later in post to find the look you are after... but what if DSC (or Paolo's TrueColor) is the look you are after in about 80% of the material you shoot?!

I guess it is a good problem to have.

Great work!

jpb

I want to thank Tim for these scene files. Thanks to them (and Paolo Ciccone's TrueColor) I can't get enough of shooting with this camera!

The interesting part for me is whether to shoot with the Superwide scene vs. the DSC setting. Obviously, Superwide provides you with the maximum ability to grade the color later in post to find the look you are after... but what if DSC (or Paolo's TrueColor) is the look you are after in about 80% of the material you shoot?!

I guess it is a good problem to have.

Great work!
If you want the maximum dynamic range with calibrated colour then just use the DSC setting you like, max out black stretch and lower the knee to 80%

Tim,
I have to shoot a commercial in a controlled environment.I am planning to use your Superwide scene. Is there any way to decrease the noise level in post? The master will be in SD 16/9, is this noise as obvious as I see it on my LCD HD monitor?
Thank you for your great work,
Eugen

Tim,

I'm mighty grateful for your considerable efforts. I want to buy your DVD as soon as the Pal version is available. In the meantime, I note that you say setups for a NTSC monitor. How do these settings work out in PAL or the 201e versions? The main difference (apart from DV being the frame rate.

Anyway, thank you again, it's all very much appreciated.

Stuart
Paris, France

when I 'save as' I just get a small 8kb .ts file, which I can't play. How can you play this file (on a mac)?

*edit* it works.. thanks, looks great

I'm experiencing the same problem. What was the fix? What is the URL for the pictorial examples of the scene files?

I've got a 40Mb .ts file that opens in Windows Media player. It plays a blank screen with a little bit of audio with someone shouting "Action".

Help!!

I'm experiencing the same problem. What was the fix? What is the URL for the pictorial examples of the scene files?

Can somebody help the more challenged such as myself by guiding me through getting this info?

Its on the first post. Theres a PDF file for download

Ted, I can receive the PDF without a problem. I want the download with the pictoral examples.

Hi, please have patience with my rookie question :) this is the first time i've strayed from the factory settings.. usually i would shoot and white balance with the factory settings and color correct in post...

now that i got an m2 adapter and saw some great footage from people online, i was turned on to the truecolor settings and the ones posted by tim... however, when i apply either truecolor or the superwide settings, i get a ton of light loss... i was testing it out with a 25watt anton bauer camera light as the sole light source about 2 ft away from the subject...

is this because of the adapter?? or am i just doing something wrong?? thanks for any help..

Marc,

Its the nature of the beast. Especially the M2. Its the one that demands more light. But, apparently this gives good looking bokeh. New adapters like the Me2 and from the others introduce new GG that gives a brighter image at the expense of good looking bokeh.

Its a choice you make. ...for now.

Ted

P.S. just saw its your first post. welcome to DVINFO!

Hmmm thanks for the response... I guess it's a matter of really experimenting with scene files in combination with the m2... btw, again, this is my novice-ness of scene file recipe speaking.. but can't you duplicate the colors produced by the scene files in post??? assuming the original footage isn't overblown?? thanks...

The scene files not only set your color but also contrast, detail, black stretch among others.

Having said that, you would want to use one with the most neutral look in conjunction with your workflow. This would give you flexibility in post.
An example why you want a neutral setting is If you use a setting which compresses your blacks you cant recover that in post. Whereas with stretched blacks you can always crush it in post.
For me I use a neutral look with more accurate color settings. I dont find the Effects looks( like sepia, mono, etc) useful because these are the looks that, as you said, you can almost replicate in post.

Ted

right, so does the "true color" setting achieve the achieve the neutral colors?? Thanks

Supposedly it does. Paolo's True Color for the HD100 was a great setting giving you rich colors that are spot on. It is ideal when you don't want to do much tweaking in post. Its rich and ideal for vibrant colored commercials for instance. You can however desaturate in post.

The true color setting he made for the HD200, however, gives too much boost to the reds, I suggest that if you tweak it, do it with a color chart as a tweaking in one channel affects its complement as well.

In my tests and actual use its Tim's superwide that gives a neutral and color accurate palette for the HD200. You may just want to assign the stretch and normal black settings to the two user buttons to toggle it on and off to suite your taste. It produces images that is intended to be
graded in post. But it gives you latitude in doing your grading.

The Hd200 and hd100 uses different DSPs so the scene files are not totally interchangeable between them.

(Edited. Didn't see HD100 recipies link)

Sorry to drag up an old post but can somebody advice me where I can find Tim's scene .scn files?

I didn't publish scn files because I had a 250 at the time, with pre-release firmware, and the scn files would have caused issues in most HD200 cameras. The pdf in post #1 of this thread is the next best thing.