I hope someone can provide me with some help because I am going nuts! I was filming my daughter and son's first school musical of the year with my XL1S (less than 5 hours on it) and a new Panasonic Professional Mini DV. I finished filming the concert (on playback this was all good, about 30 minutes worth) then I paused the camera, walked to the end of school and started recording again (now here's the problem); when I started recording again (on playback the screen has 4 or 5 lines (horizontal) which shows two different scenes intermixed with some random pixelation, but only lasts for about five to ten seconds or so). Now understand that the camera has less than 5 hours on it, I am using good quality tapes, taped on only once, and I take good care of my equipment, so what am I doing wrong? This is so frustrating to me because this is the same problem I had with my old XL1... ANY HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED, or I will soon have a camera for sale!

Run a head cleaner through it. We've had this discussion many times before. My Panasonic wanted a head cleaning about 4 tapes from brand new. When you buy a camera, the FIRST TAPE in it should be the head cleaner. It has been documented several times across different brands of cameras.

Our own Kennelmaster, Chris Hurd, even stated once that it should be a law!

-gb-

I've had a bit of that too...but cleaning the heads seems to clear it up pretty well.

Do we know what causes this? and why it only happens 5 seconds out of 30 minutes? I will try it and let you guys know, I really appreciate the fast responses!

For important events where I only get one shot at them, I head clean before shooting to help ensure captureing it well. I always pre and post roll for 5-10 seconds to let these things pass as they usually don't last for too long. I would normally say sending your camera in for service would be worthwhile if this happens alot, but you said yours only has 5 hours on it.

As Greg said, you should always clean the heads as soon as you receive the camera. You can't know what the camera was subject to before you got it, new or used. Dust, chemical vapors and on and on. That tape drum did not just appear in the camera. It had to go through a manufacturing process, transportation, storage, installation, more storage and on and on. They will get foreign material on them.

It also takes a little time for the heads to break-in and fit the tape properly. This is another reason for using one brand of tape, as this will shorten that time. Once you have the camera broken it, stick with that tape brand religiously. It will save you a lot of trouble. If you must switch brands, clean it well and then try to stick with that brand so it can seat properly on the drum.

Next, I recommend fast forwarding the tape and rewinding it before using it to tension it properly. This may even have fixed your problem with stopping and when you started it again it may have changed the tension and not made good contact. Just a possibility.

And, please don't be afraid to clean the camera heads with a cleaning tape. Every manual I have read recommends regular cleaning. If you wait until the camera tells you to clean them, you are already going to have had problems.

If you have a constant problem with a camera and if you have not had the camera for much time, try this trick----change to a different brand of tape. I got a camera a couple of years ago for a guy on ebay. The guy was very nice and even threw a couple of extras into the Kata bag it was shipped in. Problem was, he didn't wrap the camera for shipping. He simple put it into the bag with everything else, added some peanuts and shipped it. It arrived in quite a mess and I had to spend a lot of time cleaning it up.

I had a JVC camera too at that time and was using JVC tapes. I stuck a tape in it and it was really bad. So I cleaned the heads with a cleaning tape and tried again, no good. I cleaned it a bunch, several times and it was slightly better but still was bad. I cleaned it again and just couldn't get it to work. I was ready to contact the guy and try to get my money back, when I decided to stick a Sony tape I had laying there in. It worked perfectly and that camera never had another problem or drop-out and is still in use today by my brother, who does weddings.

The moral is, if you have trouble with a camera that does not want to change, try using a different brand of tape, especially if it was a used camera and you don't know what tapes were used in it before. Some work better with some cameras than others. I have never had a single issue using Sony tapes in Canon cameras. They seem to love them.

Anyway----good luck!

Mike

Thanks again for the responses, I ran a head cleaner through it and I will see what that brings. I will keep you posted on the progress! Thanks,

jeff , I'm having the same problems. Right at the time I'm in full use of the camera and at one point it came up in Orange "Clean Video heads" in the finder right in the midle of action that I could not stop. The tape came out double shot(Funny) picture in places. I've used a cleaning tape ASAP after and have had the same problem now for two tapes.

I've noticed it does not do it as much on Standby mode as the camera is running. I'm to the point that I was going to head to canon to see if they can clean it.

Anyone have any idea how and what is the best way to clean the heads ?

I have found that the "pixelation" that has happened to me is when I am "cycling" the record button on and then off and than on again! For example, I walke into a door way, beagn to shoot through a window, 2-3 seconds, (wrong shot angle) turned the record off and than turned it back on again in a second or two (moved to the left) and I think maybe the tape is catching some slack and recording partially over another scene. Does this make sense to anyone, or am I just confusing everyone?

Any suggestions?

Any suggestions?

First, why stop the camera for a few seconds, unless you are trying to edit it in camera, that's what your NLE is for.

Second, you could very well be causing improper tension between the tape and heads by stopping and starting like that. I would not do it.

Third, did you get the cleaning tape and really clean the heads?

Mike

I have found that the "pixelation" that has happened to me is when I am "cycling" the record button on and then off and than on again! For example, I walke into a door way, beagn to shoot through a window, 2-3 seconds, (wrong shot angle) turned the record off and than turned it back on again in a second or two (moved to the left) and I think maybe the tape is catching some slack and recording partially over another scene. Does this make sense to anyone, or am I just confusing everyone?

The slack in the tape is starting to make sense. The idea to send a wee bit of voltage to the rewind motors to maintain tape tension was a key feature in the most expensive reel-to-reel audio recorders of the 80's. It certainly was a welcome distinction for me when I used those machines regularly. The machines always instantaneously played back at the correct speed.

Applying that idea to minidv cameras, I am thnking that rolling off of pause might result in either a compression or expansion of helical scan data tracks on the tape for a few seconds until proper tape tension is re-established. In playback mode that expansion/compression would be read as a minor speed change, and could very well result in incomplete data recovery, i.e., pixelization.

The only way I know to avoid that kind of thing is to let the camra roll. You will be able to identify the good shots anyway.

Yes I cleaned the heads well... The turning on and off of the recording was a sporadic movement, I need to remember to just let it run and then edit it out in post. From what I have seen all of the dropouts have occured where I have stopped and started the camera. I had a few random pixels floating when I first used the camera but I have not seen any since. I will keep you all posted to any further problems. I am going turkey hunting tomorrow and will gather alot of footage so I will see if it is solved.
Thanks Mike,

I always import full tapes, then watch through for individual takes and mark them. I then use "Make Subclip" to separate them into individual takes, roll those off into a "Clips" bin and add the thumbnail column. I make sure to have the Reel name show as well so I can sort by that and I have to add zeros to the beginning of the marker number for 1-9 to get them to sort correctly.

Ok, I went through the whole day on Wednesday and never had an issue with the camera other than my hunting and filming partner was reviewing the footage and did not tell me and I recorded over part of his very sucessful hunt and will never be able to get that back, but otherwise the camera worked without a hitch; then comes Thursday... We got up at 5:00 am and headed out to the woods, I fired up the camera and handed it to my partner as it was his turn to film, he recorded about five minutes of footage of me walking into the field and setting up the blind, then paused the camera (that part was great), the recorded my interview and the word "CLEAN HEADS" came up, so we played back the footage and got that infamous set of lines that run from right to left 4 sets of each with different footage in each four sets (total of eight lines) sets of lines, from the time we started to record, until he quit. I reviewed the footage, it was of course bad, so I then went to the end of where we recorded and had the issues and recoded again and the camera worked like it was supposed to? I went back to the truck, cleaned the heads again and the camera has worked fine ever since! WTF???!!! This is a brand new camera!!! How the heck is this happening? Is it just the fact that we are pressing record to soon after the camera comes off of standby? HELP ME PLEASE!!!

Jeff,

You just said it was a brand new camera, and in the first post you said it had five hours on it. If it is new, I would send it in for service and get a good cleaning.

If it is older and not under warranty and you think it has only five hours and you know that it was keep clean and no tapes were switched etc.., then clean it up and I mean clean it really well. Then, go buy a Sony Premium MiniDV tape, blue packageing and try using it. Like I said, I think Canon cameras like Sony tapes. If that does not work, I'll pay you for the tape and you send the camera to Canon for service.

Mike

The camera was new when I bought it a month ago... I have run about 5 - 60 minute tapes through it myself. I used the Sony Premium tapes in my last camera and it killed my heads. Out of the 5 hours of tape I have about a minute of dropped frames. Also why can I use this thing all day long with PERFECT tape, and again in the morning with no problems then have 30 seconds of bad footage? Also the manual states not to use the Sony wet brand of cleaning tapes, is this the same lubricant or tape that you would ue to record on?

Are these the tapes you are referring too? Any one else have any input? I don't really want to switch to Sony tapes if do not have too... PLEASE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/20-Sony-Mini-DV-Premium-Tapes-DVM60PRL-MiniDV-2-45-Ea_W0QQitemZ270113249682QQihZ017QQcategoryZ15073QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Are these the tapes you are referring too? Any one else have any input? I don't really want to switch to Sony tapes if do not have too... PLEASE!
http://cgi.ebay.com/20-Sony-Mini-DV-Premium-Tapes-DVM60PRL-MiniDV-2-45-Ea_W0QQitemZ270113249682QQihZ017QQcategoryZ15073QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Jeff,

How is the world can you say that Sony tapes killed your cameras heads? Well, don't switch if you feel that way but since it is really new, I would send it for service then.

Best of luck and have fun---Mike

P.S.: Yes, those are the tapes! :)

M

Canon stated when I sent my last camera in that the Sony tapes were the reason that my camera heads were gummed up and that I should not use a "Wet" type of tape to record on. I am not meaning to disagree with you I really appreciate the feedback I am just at witts end as to why a brand new camera would do this. I am on the phone with Canon right now and all they can tell me is to send it in!

Canon stated when I sent my last camera in that the Sony tapes were the reason that my camera heads were gummed up and that I should not use a "Wet" type of tape to record on. I am not meaning to disagree with you I really appreciate the feedback I am just at witts end as to why a brand new camera would do this. I am on the phone with Canon right now and all they can tell me is to send it in!

Jeff,

I certainly would send it in and see what they say.

I must be the luckiest guy around. Two XL1s's , an XL2, and now an XLH1 and never a problem using the Sony tapes! :) Knock on wood. Honestly, I think their statement if pure hog wash, and it just leads to false rumors flying around.

Best of luck to you.

Mike

I can only tell you what Canon told me with my old XL1 when I sent it in twice, and today when I called the tech told me not to use any "WET" type of tapes as it "Gums up the heads and makes them collect dirt easier becasue the lubricant is "WET". I am glad the tapes work in your camcorder, and I am sending it in free of charge to be fixed. If I try your suggestion and go against what Canon is telling me how long should I run the cleaning tape in my camera before running the Sony tape and if I have only experienced this problem a couple of times how many hours of Sony tapes must I run through to see if it is going to effect mine? Is any one else using Sony tapes without problems? MAybe Canon is just full of &^&$^&!!!

Thanks for the input Mike!

I don't expect you to go against Canon of course, but what they said is pure bull. Sony probably sells more tapes than anyone in the world. If what they said was true, there would be multi-millions of "destroyed" cameras out there. That is simply not true. Neither lubricant, wet or dry is bad, it is just not good to mix them. By the way, the reason for not mixing them is that they can put gummy deposits on the heads, which means that the dry lubes are leaving particles of their lube on the heads and in the tape transport mechanism!

I hope that your camera comes back in perfect working order and never gives you a bit of trouble from then on. It's a great camera, enjoy it!

Best of luck-----Mike

Jeff , I understand your frustration. Its hard to sit for hours and then action starts like right now and when you press (record) you lose half of the hunt. Everyday the camera is getting worst for me and at a bad time as I still have 4 weeks...

It is completely frustrating; now I have used the camera (with the panasonic tapes) the last three days and have not had one issue! I just wish more people would chime in. I know that there are thousands of viewers on this site, and this post has been viewed over 400 times and I have three maybe four different people responding! Am I the only one with this problem, or do people not wish to participate in this forum? Just curious! Again, I do wish to thank those whom have taken the time to try to answer my questions!

Jeff

Jeff, I understand your frustration. A quick search will yield LONG threads debating the merits of one tape brand over another... the merits of NOT switching lube types vs switching often. I suspect that most people aren't chiming in for the reason that you will just get conflicting views.

For instance. When an xl1 we were using 'banded' and 'pixilated' on a shoot, even AFTER running a tape head cleaner, we sent it back to Canon. Canon tech asked me SPECIFICALLY if I was using Sony tapes, and said SPECIFICALLY not to use them.

So I can concur that I recieved the same message directly from Canon's lips. When I told them we were NOT using Sony, they said, "Well, a 'wet' tape... we don't recommed a 'wet' lubricant, and that's what Sony uses. Use a 'dry lube' tape.

Does this conflict with what others are posting? Sure it does.

I use Pannasonic only on my XL2. I intend to stick with Pannasonic. I also clean the heads right before an important shoot.

That's my style, and I'm sticking to it.

Thanks for the response, I am not looking for a great tape debate, only ideas on what be causing my camera to malfunction as new as it is and only a very small percentage of times when I first hit the record button. This never occurs during the middle of a clip (like good footage, bad footage, followed by good footage) only from the beginning to the end or a short part, but the (I guess they call them dropped frames) always appear right after I hit the record button. I have read and read and read and read search result after search result and everybody has their opinions but no concrete evidence why a majority of Canon Cameras have technical issues and many complaints of dropped frames, pixelation, no recording and so on. Like I said, this is why I sold my XL1 and now trying a XL1S (Brand New) and it is doing the same darn thing! I am ready to sell it and move on to Sony and sacrafice the smaller zoom...

... now trying a XL1S (Brand New)I think this is the primary problem here... there's no such thing as a "brand new" XL1S these days. Production ceased on that camcorder about four years ago. What you have in hand is most likely a refurb, maybe even used and not refurbed. At the very best, if it is in fact "new old stock" which has been sitting around unsold for years until you came along and bought it, that too is most likely the root of the problem.

Understand that it cannot be "brand new" because they haven't been made in several years. So whether you have a used camera, a refurb, or new old stock, it doesn't really matter. Each one of those situations has its own particular set of problems. Even if you actually have new old stock, that ain't good. You've bought a camcorder that's been sitting around unused since 2004, which is just asking for trouble.

Anything as old as a Canon XL1S should be sent in to Canon service first thing before using it... and as has been pointed out in this thread previously, you'll want to run a head cleaning cassette first thing before ever putting a tape in and recording with it.

On something that's practically antique status such as this camcorder, I'd say the only viable, practical thing to do with it is to get it into Canon service right away. They can make these problems go away and turn an XL1S into a usable camcorder again.

I am ready to sell it and move on to Sony...The days of the XL1S have long since passed by. I think you should seriously consider moving into anything, Canon, Sony or whatever, that was made less than two years ago. New would be even better. Hope this helps,

Chris, this is not a used or a refurbished unit, but a 1 person owner who bought several for his outdoor production company and never used this one, I was the first to take it out of the box! So even though it was "made several years ago", it in essence has never been used and therefore is Brand New! I do not see how something that was mad 4 years ago can be considered "Antique Status" and I assure you that there are thousands of these cameras still in use today. Not everyone has the luxury of buying a new camera every couple of years and this camera still serves its purpose. I appreciate all whom have contributed to this post and I will send it in to be looked at...

Ok, issue solved! I just got off of the phone with a Video repair company who has been involved in the industry for 14 years. They took a look at my camera and said that the problem I was having had nothing to do with the heads and that running a tape cleaner did more damage to my heads than it did good. All I had to do (and Chris you were right) was since the camera sat in the closet for an extended length of time was to stick a tape in and rewind and fast forward a tape five or six times to break everything in and as of today when I picked it up it seemed to work. I am going to take it out tomorrow and film all day and Thursday as well so time will tell. She said that switching tapes to the Sony brand will have no effect on my camera as the heads are not bad, dirty, and so on.

The days of the XL1S have long since passed by. I think you should seriously consider moving into anything, Canon, Sony or whatever, that was made less than two years ago. New would be even better. Hope this helps,


Those words make me sad.
Well anyway my XL1s did the same thing when it was new (about 2 hrs on it) back in early 2004. I was shooting a wedding and when I reviewed the footage I could not believe it. At the time I did not have a back up camera but luckily this footage was not crucial. I now run a cleaning tape before any important event and I'm going to add fastforwarding and rewinding the tape beforehand as well.

Are these the tapes you are referring too? Any one else have any input? I don't really want to switch to Sony tapes if do not have too

100's of hours on my old XL-1s with Sony stock (yeah, blue ones). Few drop outs. Barely cleaned the thing. But the sitting around for a few years thing and running a tape back and forth - yeah, ok - I'll buy that.

I have a JVC HD250 and within the first 5 hours I had similar issues. I have two tape types - Panasonic and JVC Pro HD stuff. I was told they spin off from the master reel...

All I had to do (and Chris you were right) was since the camera sat in the closet for an extended length of time was to stick a tape in and rewind and fast forward a tape five or six times to break everything in and as of today when I picked it up it seemed to work. That was my point about NOS camcorders (new old stock). Since you bought an unused XL1S, that's exactly what you have -- new old stock -- and as you found out, years of inactivity can cause problems with the tape transport. For anybody who is storing a camcorder long term, it's a good idea to cycle a tape all the way to the end and rewind it again about once a month or so to avoid this kind of trouble.

Glad to hear it's working out for you.

Chris's comments remind me of one other point.

All of those nice shiny metal parts would probably be just fine after a brief clean-up to remove any dust and vapor applied stuff that have built up over the years of inactivity. But, what can deteriorate without hope for cleaning is the rubber parts, such as pinch rollers. They don't just get dirty, they break down. These rollers maintain proper tension and such on the tapes and could be the cause of your problems Jeff. They were always the biggest problem with the old 8-track music players, if any of you are old enough to remember them and also with cassette players too. They caused all of those tapes to get "eaten."

The rollers tend to do one of two things, get harder and slip, or they break down and get sticky which will cause the tape to try to wrap around the roller itself. Perhaps you can have just them checked out and changed. They will/would/may improve with usage and glaze removal, but better to have them checked out.

Good luck!

Mike

WOW!!! Canon suprised me; I purchased my camera, joined Canon's XL club and they gave me a year of warranty, so they worked on my camera for free and said if I have any other issues to send it in and they would work on it for free for the next year. I got it back yesterday and so far it works great!

Welcome to the club ;)

On something that's practically antique status such as this camcorder, I'd say the only viable, practical thing to do with it is to get it into Canon service right away. They can make these problems go away and turn an XL1S into a usable camcorder again.

The days of the XL1S have long since passed by...
Reading that made me wince and smile at the same time! There’s one perk to still using these “near antiques.” Last week I was standing near a high precipice wanting to shoot some rappelling SWAT guys for inclusion in a recruiting video. The firemen in charge couldn’t let me so I just tossed my XL1s to the one guy and he taped for me. If I had the XH A1 I’m hoping to buy one of these days I wonder if I would have been so quick to hand it over and allow it to hang over a drop like that. I know for a fact I wouldn’t have let a new camera eat all the dust we kicked up in that desert. :)

If we work at it hard enough we can still get some pretty good images out of these ol’ dinosaurs, though, I think mine are finally on their last legs.