I have to render in CS3 after importing HDV from the Canon XH A1. Am I doing something wrong?

Don't have this problem with Premiere 2.0 as they have a plugin for Canon 30F codec.

I can't speak much about bad firewire ports (yet!), but did have my A1 "revert" one time (somehow), but I dug out the manual to reset things like Mike Quinones suggested earlier in the thread, and all was groovy again.

BTW, I use the CS3 suite, also. But I never use PPro's capturing, since it doesn't do scene-detection. The wonderful and FREE HDVSplit application splits up all my shots into m2t files that I can review, rename, delete the bad ones, etc. then drop them in my projects. It probably saves a bunch of time on the heads than my old "log and batch" method. Just an FYI...

HTH,
Brian Brown
BrownCow Productions
www.browncowvideo.com

Brian;
Just out of curiosity, do you use On Location to capture HD or do you use another program for this?

Mike, I just purchased the CS3 upgrade last week and loaded it on a new quad-core 64-bit Vista system I built... so, I've yet to try OnLocation. But, I will definitely use that app with my laptop for my studio-type shoots.

I'll keep you posted on how it works,
Brian Brown

Hey everybody,

I've been watching these forums for a while, and I finally bought my A1. I love it! I recently shot some footage, captured into Premiere Pro CS3, edited everything, and it looked beautiful on the screen. HD is awesome!

Then when I exported it to SD, trying various methods within CS3 (Adobe Media Encoder or Encore, etc.) my footage looked like garbage. I was pissed, 'cause it ended up looking like some amateur's footage. Detail was lost, even when using high bitrates. I know the down-convert won't be as sharp as HD, but I thought it was supposed to be noticeably sharper than shooting is SD.

What am I doing wrong? Any advice on getting the sharpest image possible for SD would be fantastic!

Thanks!

I know this used to be an issue with CS2. The solution most of the time was either to export it in HD, import it into a SD timeline, scale the footage, then render. Lots of extra work sadly. I personally encode most of my videos in multiple formats so I normally render an HD file, then use Squeeze to do a batch job in a few different formats which produces nice videos.

I have cs2. I usually export a full-quality file out of premiere (usually an mpeg2 with a bitrate of 50mbps, sometimes uncompressed) and then scale it with virtualdub and encode to a dvd etc.

Hey I just got a chance to use my schools Canon Xh-A1. Now i'm the first person to use it at my school and i need to some help on how to work somethings.

For starters I can't get rid of the grain on the footage. I have the gain at the lowest setting but the grain is still there.

Also when i uploaded the footage on my computer instead of up loading it 24fps it came out 44.96 fps so is there a special pull down i have to do, because when i tried the edit the audio was off sync and it was a big mess.

This is also my first time using HDV

Have you installed the Canon F-mode presets for Premiere?

http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=3408

For starters I can't get rid of the grain on the footage. I have the gain at the lowest setting but the grain is still there.

Did you turn off agc? First thing you learn ;)

Thank you for the link so that is installed.

And how do i turn off the agc and what does agc stand for?

AGC = automatic gain control. It automatically increase gain in the analog video input amplifiers (reading signal the CCD) to provide "normal" image brightness. When shooting in low light conditions this can result in additional gain and corresponding increased apparent grain and video noise.

To avoid AGC, do NOT use the Green Box (easy recording) mode, and turn off the AGC switch. Set the AGC level selection switch to a level you can live with. See page 60 of the manual.

BTW: do not confuse video AGC with audio AGC, aka: Automatic Audio Adjustment described on page 49 in the Canon manual.

What is the best/correct set up for editing 30F clips in CS3?

There is no Canon 30F preset in the stock installation for CS3.

Adobe offered a 24F and 30F preset for CS2. It allows you to drop 30F clips straight into the timeline and not have to render.

If you copy the same set of CS2 presets into CS3 and drop the same 30F clip into the timeline, CS3 will take time to render the clip. The 24F and 30F does not appear to work efficiently with CS3.

On the other hand, you can drop a Canon 30F clip into a HDV60i timeline and not have to render the clip. A close inspection of the preview shows the "progressive" look intact and there is no interlacing introduced. There appears to be an advantage to this method if you mix an interlaced 60i clip; both 30f and 60i seem to coexists fine.

You can take the same streamcliped .mov 30f clip into FCP 6 with either 30p or 60i setup. FCP seems to be happy either way and reads the file natively.

If you are shooting Canon 30f what presets are you using to edit in CS3?

60i and it will be fine.

That seems to confirm my suspicion that 30F is actually 60i with some behind the scenes processing to make it appear progressive. Appearantly PP CS3 and FCP can read it as 60i and not reintroduce interlacing.

I have tested a mix of 30f and 60i in a CS3 HDV108060i timeline. You can easily see the differences between the clips. When it is ultimately rendered out as progressive (H.264), the 30f clips retain their progressive look and the interlaced clips are deinterlaced to make a continuous progressive movie.

Are you guys sure that your transtitions are not interlaced???

DEFINITELY you should be using the 29.97 PROGRESSIVE preset for "HDV". DO NOT use the 60i interlaced... that is wrong. Use the 29.97 progressive (it may be read as 30P, but really it's 29.97 progressive frame).

Confirmed - 60i will generate interlaced effects. This is a title with zoom

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh132/vantagepointenews/Interlaced1.jpg

So the question remains. Is there anyway to avoid rerendering 30F when dropped into a PP CS3 1080 30p timeline?

I wouldn't get too concerned about rendering clips to view them (the red line on the timeline). It's something I rarely do, since it doesn't affect the real rendering you have to do to export a sequence. Rendering the timeline (hitting Enter key) just renders transforms, effects and transitions for viewing purposes only. I suspect that progressive footage in PPro requires rendering to view in order to be compatible with viewing devices, Firewire output, etc.

Today's jingle, "Don't sweat it.. edit in 30P." (okay, 29.97, to be exact)
Brian Brown
BrownCow Productions

Say,

I just tested 60i, 30f, and 24f and noticed that the 60 and 30 came in fine ( a continuous image on the timeline representing 30 seconds of continuous footage) to my timeline but the 24f came in in one meg segments and about 175 of them? WTH? I am using Sony Vegas Pro 8 and currently wondering if I want to shoot in 24f?

Can I still achieve a film like look in post with shooting 60i? Is 30f a good compromise (which seems a bit softer than 60i)?

Tony

When I plug my camera into my computer via a firewire cable, load up Adobe Premiere Pro CS3, and go to the capture window -- it says:

"Can't Activate Recorder. Try Resetting the Camera"



I am having ongoing problems capturing with the XH-A1. When I plug it in via firewire, Windows detects it (usually) as a Canon DV Camcorder listed under "Imaging Devices" in device manager. Sometimes though, it is detected as an AV/C subunit listed as Canon XH-A1 under "Sound, Video & Game Controllers". Premiere will only talk to the camera as an imaging device, and only in DV capture mode (HDV gives me 'Device offline', Cineform HD gives me 'Can't Activate Recorder'). HDVSplit and Cineform HDLink will only recognize the camera as an AV/C subunit. With enough plugging, unplugging, and resetting the camera I can usually get it recognized the way a particular program wants it.

I'm working on a batch script which will force Windows to load the drivers I want, if it works I'll post it.

I have a Canon XH-A1 and Adobe Premiere Pro CS4. I filmed some yesterday at 24f in HDV (1080i). When prompted to select a preset for capturing my footage I chose "HDV 1080p 24". Did I import using the right setting for the Canon XH-A1 filming in 24f?

Also...what is the best format to export it in if I want to view it at its finest quality?

Is 1080i 25p?

Someone please help explain this to me...

Moved to World Premiere from Canon XH.

24F is 24p, so yes, you chose the right capture settings.

Also...what is the best format to export it in if I want to view it at its finest quality?

Where and how do you want to view it? On a computer? On DVD? On your iPod? Each one has a different answer. As a delivery codec, H.264 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264) has a lot going for it for BD, computer, and to a lesser degree, Web video delivery.

If you want to transcode at the highest quality to preserve the file as a master, that's a different question.

Is 1080i 25p?

Read this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate). That should get you started.

BTW... Wikipedia, while not always having the most accurate information, is a great resource for stuff like this.

I exported my project to MPEG-2 HDTV 1080p 23.976 but it seems like the video plays too fast...

Anyone? I've tried about ever setting there is...

I'm guessing, here, as we don't shoot 24fps at all, but you may have set up your project to remove the pulldown frames and when you output at 23.xxx frames it speeds up because there are fewer frames after the conversion (this is above my pay grade and others can explain it better, but Canon's 24f is somehow actually 60i at heart). There is, however, an option in your project setup re: the pulldown frames, take a look at that possibility......Battle Vaughan/miamiherald.com video team

Can I return to a theme that was running in this thread a year ago in the hope that in the intervening period things have changed and someone has found a good solution.

I have just shot my first 8 hrs of wildlife material using XL H1a, very impressive, but now comes the editing and distribution to friends and relatives. I am using Premiere Pro CS3 and encore. Capture and editing of the HD mpeg2 files has not been a problem. However, exporting to Encore and writing an SD DVD produces much poorer picture quality than my old XL1S working solely in SD.

Should I:

1. Export from the camera as SD and work solely in SD to the final DVD.
2. Capture HD mpeg2 files into a SD project in premiere.
3. Capture HD mpeg2 files and work on a HD project in premiere converting to SD on export to Encore.
4. Capture HD mpeg2 files into an HD project in Premiere and export as H.264 HD project for down-converting in another program (if I can afford it) .

I'm sure someone must have found a good solution.

Nigel

5. Capture and edit in HD, export to an intermediate (CineForm) or uncompressed AVI in HD, then resize that to SD using a free tool like VirtualDub which work very well (Lanczos filters please.)

This blog entry has some similar issues (although for 24p), but it deal with some of the scaling issue Premiere can introduce. CineForm Insider: Mastering 24p DVDs from HD using Premiere Pro. (http://cineform.blogspot.com/2008/12/mastering-24p-dvds-from-hd-using.html)

Thanks a lot, I will give it all a try.

Nigel

Hi, I'm trying to capture it via Premiere cs4, i can't get it to show the picture on the capture panel, although it lets me control my camera via the panel, weired right? anyhow to solve it.?

i both tried the preset sequence 24f dv widescreen and tried NTSC 60i and what have you.
i also changed the settings on the camera as it says in the manual capturing DV footage.

DID ANY OF YOU ACTUALLY SUCCEEDED CAPTURING 24F DV(SD) with th XH-A1 VIA PREMIERE CS4?


*i had to try other applications to capture the footage, nothing worked including Vegas, the Windows Capture app, but Cyberlink Producer did let me Capture ,only the footage was encoded to MPEG-2 Very low quality, so i tried again With Muuve Reveal, which finally let me capture it in AVI !

any feedbacks are more than welcome ..

Sorry if this is old news but have you tried HDVSplit?
Paviko's website (http://strony.aster.pl/paviko/)

Hello, can anyone give me a hint as I am not familiar with this technology. I will be capturing from a Cannon XH A1 via component out for video and RCA out for audio to a Black Magic Intensity Pro capture card in a vista PC. What are the proper preset settings in Adobe CS5 to capture 1080i at 60fps?

Also Should I capture in time code or frames? Hope someone can answer before 12:00pm tomorrow EST.

I have an MXO2 Mini rather than a a BMI Card (sorry) but, since nobody else has tried to answer, I'll jump in. For my XHA1, I use an HDV 1440x1080i preset or else Adobe's generic HDV1080/30i preset. Since I do not have a BMI card, I'm not sure how to answer the question about capturing with time code or frames as I've never noticed any such option on my system What is your intended output: is it web/progressive (and in what size or resolution) or is it DVD?. If you shot in 24f, maybe somebody else can offer advice as I haven't used it enough to offer any advice. However, I'm assuming by your post that you did not shoot 24f (nor 24p in a 60i wrapper), and that we're talking about outputting 30i (aka 60i) NTSC to DVD. For DVD, my instinct would be to use time code and output to standard mpg2 DVD format because you shot in 1080/30i (aka 60i). If you are going strictly for web formats, maybe somebody else can offer a different opinion. If you are matching your XHA1 1080i to other camera's 30p format video, I'd be inclined to go for frames, instead, just so thing match up better.

Thank you so much. Sorry I forgot to included intended use. The captured file eventually is used to make high quality DVD's of individual events that last about 8 minutes long. When I first open Adobe CS5 there is a properties screen that comes up and asks for video format timecode or frames, and an audio section that I didn't look at too closely. When I accept those settings Adobe then takes me to the presets screen where it looks like you select a "codec?" There are several "codecs?" prefixed with DV that I assume are for DV capture, but there are several and I am not certain which one so I'll look for the one you mention. Sorry I am a bit new to all of this and helping out a friend who's firewire port busted and he has an event before he can send it out for repair. The component out is the only option and he has to leave tomorrow.

I should be back in front of this thing a little later today probably around lunch time EST.

Edit

Well no luck, for one reason or another the Black Magic Intensity was not sending the camera to Adobe. Uhhg. Time to go request some RMA numbers.

I am having ongoing problems capturing with the XH-A1. When I plug it in via firewire, Windows detects it (usually) as a Canon DV Camcorder listed under "Imaging Devices" in device manager. Sometimes though, it is detected as an AV/C subunit listed as Canon XH-A1 under "Sound, Video & Game Controllers". Premiere will only talk to the camera as an imaging device, and only in DV capture mode (HDV gives me 'Device offline', Cineform HD gives me 'Can't Activate Recorder'). HDVSplit and Cineform HDLink will only recognize the camera as an AV/C subunit. With enough plugging, unplugging, and resetting the camera I can usually get it recognized the way a particular program wants it.

I'm working on a batch script which will force Windows to load the drivers I want, if it works I'll post it.

please do; what version Premiere Pro are you using? for me PP captures fine but On Location CS5 is choppy and doesnt work at ALL; if i have to i use CS4. i have lossless alternatives but i would prefer to capture to CS5. my system is Win7 x64 CS5.

i use a cheap CF recorder now to capture from tape, but it would be much easier on ad shoots to capture to laptop HD (7200RPM) via CS5 On Location for cam2 while cam1 captures to CF card instead of screwing with recapturing from tape later.

thanks!

Hi gang! Yesterday I shot a wedding with my xh-a1 in HDV. This was my first HD shoot (usually shot in SD with my xl2 in tandem) so today I was trying to capture the footage and got the "blue screen of death" with all the different languages saying "playing on video hardware." I don't have any trouble with SD footage...what is this error screen telling me? Attached is a screen shot.

Thanks in advance for your guidance!

Terry Wall

Can you clarify: do you mean you got a BSOD at some point after starting capture? For reasons known only to Adobe, they do not display HDV video as its captured. You have to look at the source device's display (your camera's LCD) and the screenshot you posted is normal during HDV capture.

Pete, you are correct! I went back into capture mode and save a sample clip of the HDV footage, and sure enough, it captured and I was then able to preview the clip on my source monitor. So would someone please explain to me why Adobe would do something so boneheaded as to NOT allow captured footage to play on the CAPTURE MONITOR??!!?? Is there anything in Adobe's (alledged) Knowledge Base that explains this? Call me crazy...this is just dumb! Are these folks arrogant enough to think that we PC users just might try out some other NLE?? Or do they have such a large user base that they just don't care?

Thanks, Pete!

Terry

When HDV first came out, the general presumption (and I don't recall if Adobe did or did not say so) was that they wanted to reduce the chance of dropped frames if system resources got maxxed out. Nowadays, with much faster computers being the norm I doubt anyone would accept that rationale, but for whatever reason capture window display of HDV has never gotten into PPro.

Every time I do an HDV capture, I also wonder why they haven't bothered to fix this. But, to me it is a minor nuisance that doesn't really slow anything down (any more than tape capture inherently does, anyway!)

Glad your captures are actually ok.

One last question, Pete: Did Adobe correct this "issue" with CS4 or 5? I use CS3. Believe it or not, I've actually been using a trial version of Vegas Pro and it seems quite intuitive. Short of chucking all my PC gear and programs, it might be the closest to shifting completely over to the Mac platform. Can't do that, though...just a little too rich for the pocketbook, since this isn't my full time gig.

Thx again!
Terry

No, in CS5 you still need to view the video on your camcorder during capture. But as I mentioned, I consider it a quirky mystery and not anything that really affects workflow. If you want to switch to Vegas or a Mac, that's entirely a personal choice. I can't compare because I've never used Vegas or FCP, but I'm extremely happy with CS5; it is the best version by far of PPro to date.

I think one reason it wasn't "fixed" is that Adobe doesn't consider it to be 'broken;" it simply isn't a real issue. Sure, it's a surprise -- it was to me -- to not have the monitor playback during capture if you're used to seeing it in DV mode, but the monitor window is too small and low-res for it to be of any real use anyway. If you're capturing from tape, you should have your capture device hooked up -- preferably via HDMI -- to a proper full size TV monitor so you can accurately judge sharpness, color, exposure, etc. while capturing to know whether the take is good or not. And it works fine for marking in and out points prior to the actual capture, so I'm not sure what advantage there is to seeing the tape while the capture process is underway.

But I'm guessing that everyone perceives HDV tape to be on the downward slope of its life bell curve anyway, so I'm not surprised Adobe decided to not put too many resources into tackling what is not more than an annoyance which doesn't truly affect functionality.

(And it's not a secret that HDV doesn't display during capture -- it's in all the documentation.)

As people move to tapeless the whole capture process seems like an ancient relic. And I say this as a longtime tape guy.

I'm using PP CS5 to capture video from a borrowed XH-A1S. The tapes were recorded HDV (1080i) but I'm having a heck of a time getting them to capture properly.

The capture seemingly went without a hitch- no reported dropped frames or anything. However, once I placed the files into the Sequence, I had major drift issues compared to the 2 other cameras I was using (both Sony- NX5U and an MC50U) The two sonys were a frame or two off over 20 min- not horrible, but not great. However, the Canon was off by at least a second over 10 min or so.

Any idea what is causing this? Am I missing a setting somewhere?

This is really far out obviously and I need things in sync for 20 min or so at a time (I'm working with classical music so the pieces can be long). I know my NX5U can maintain sync over an hour or more compared to the audio I record at the same time.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

--Ben

Use scene detect for the hdv camera, that will get rid of your out of sync.

Utterly Confused. I have a Xh A1s and premiere cs5.5 and can t get Cs5.5 to recognize the camera in HDV mode. If I switch 5.5 to DV mode it picks it up and I am able to capture in DV. Do I have to have a capture device like Black Magic for this to capture in HDV?

Wow, now THAT'S an old thread.

I can still capture with my XH-A1 in PP 5.5, but you'll have a lot better luck with the freeware HDV Split (you can Google it), because it will capture AND break up your scenes into discrete clips. Something PP 5.5 has never been able to accomplish.

Utterly Confused. I have a Xh A1s and premiere cs5.5 and can t get Cs5.5 to recognize the camera in HDV mode. If I switch 5.5 to DV mode it picks it up and I am able to capture in DV. Do I have to have a capture device like Black Magic for this to capture in HDV?

Make sure your HDV camera is not set to outputting DV.