Has anyone seen any new Video assist monitor news/releases at NAB? Especially something for HD work.

Is it just me or is there no product out there that really seems to fit that price/quality/function sweet spot?

Hate to say this, but, it might be you. There's just a million possibilities for HD viewing when it comes to LCD screens. If you look at what TV sales are like, these days, you will notice that LCD and plasma screen set-tops are what's selling. So, realistically, isn't an LCD screen representative of what people are watching content on?

Sorry, I didn't really specify enough what I was refering to.

I realize there are tons of HD monitors out there, my concern is more with a camera mounted capable LCD such as a Marshall or the Swit. I've just read a lot of mixed feedback on these and feel like there could be a better option, but aside from something like a $3kish panasonic monitor, these seem to be the only two ways to go without having to frankenstein something together.

I was keeping my eyes open for one of these also, and here's a brief review of what I found. Click on the attached thumbnails for higher res photos which will give you some rough idea of the screens' resolution.

Here are my very subjective comments, to be taken with your chosen sized grain of salt. It was hard to be scientific in comparing these monitors on the show floor since they were being fed a variety of signals.

ikan V8000HD:
I suppose if I needed a little monitor today, this would be my choice. ikan makes a variety of little screens, but this is the only one with component inputs. 480x800 resolution. Also compatible with L-series batteries (I assume this means Sony InfoLithium L series, although the literature isn't specific and you couldn't see the back of the demo model). I thought the image looked very nice.

Delvcam 7":
Had a nice bright image, but only composite input which looked very soft. This one wouldn't interest me.

Nebtek Daydream-HD:
This was a nice looking little monitor with component input and full controls, 480x800 resolution. (I think it's actually a Marshall screen?) Accepts a variety of batteries. They also have the "Sunshine Daydream-HD" which is similar but brighter. I liked this one a lot too. It was hooked up to a Z1, and when I looked closer I was a bit dismayed however. Although the screen is big, bright and looks great, quite honestly I don't know that it would make focusing any easier than the built-in LCD screen. I kept looking back and forth between the camera LCD and the Nebtek and I just couldn't see any more detail on the Nebtek than I could on the camera. That sort of discouraged me in my search since this was certainly one of the nicest screens I saw. Your mileage may vary...

Transvideo 6.5" Rainbow 2:
This one was OK, but definitely less sharp than the Nebtek and ikan (234x400). Only has composite input so I wouldn't want it for HD. Minor nitpick: if you want to show off your widescreen monitor to pro's, you should send it real anamorphic video instead of a letterboxed DVD stretched out of proportion... :-)

Transvideo 5.8":
Ditto for above, also 234x400 composite only. They had other models but they were all 4:3 native.

Varizoom SWIT:
Looked well made and had a nice bright image with component inputs. But it also looked rather soft. Their specs say 1440x234, but I really think that translates into 480x234 (divide by 3 to combine the RGB pixels). I don't think I would be happy with this since it's not very different from the LCD panel on my Z1.

Panasonic BT-LH80W (not shown):
Saving the best for last :-) This was a really nice looking small screen with all the pro features, including waveform monitor and grid. Interestingly, the resolution (450x800) is about the same as the ikan and Nebtek, but it looked nicer. However it was shown in optimal conditions, inside a darkened area and was being fed some very nice looking video. But perhaps it has a better quality scaler also? The image seemed to rival their much larger LCD monitors. But at $2,700 I don't know if it would be worth the $2,000 difference from the ikan and it uses Anton Bauer batteries. More info here: http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=114038&catGroupId=14625&surfModel=BT-LH80W

So in summary, I think the ikan would probably be my choice at the moment, based on what I saw. Regular price is $800, NAB price was $750. Being able to use my Sony batteries would be a big plus for me, and the resolution seems to be on par with all the other affordable small screens.

I also saw a few very high end small LCD's which looked fantastic, but I didn't even bother to get the details because I'm sure they were WAY beyond what I could afford.

I'd also be interested in everyone else's impressions and experiences.

One other company I forgot to mention, Astro Design. I don't see the resolution listed on their site, but this looked like a nice screen (and also looked expensive :-)

http://www.astrodesign.co.jp/english/product/goods.asp?cid=3&code=DM-3011

Looking at the Ikan, one wonders if the 300 bucks is worth the extra 50 in contrast ratio between the V7000 and the V8000hd. I suppose it would be. Either way, I didn't know little flats had gotten this cheap in price.

The V7000 is a whole different ballgame... the specs don't indicate the inputs, but I looked at all their models and the V8000HD is the only one that had component. Since the 7000 specs indicate an "AV cable," I'm sure this screen only has composite input, which really isn't going to be acceptable for HD monitoring. The V7000 also only has a power brick, with an adaptor for AA batteries as an accessory. And the resolution is only 234x480. The price is also $450 less than the V8000HD, not $300.

Are you perhaps thinking of the V8000W instead? It's $300 less than the V8000HD. Again, no component input, just VGA and composite.

More info on these here:

http://www.ikancorp.com/pages/monitors/v7000/index.htm
http://www.ikancorp.com/pages/monitors/v8000w/index.htm
http://www.ikancorp.com/pages/monitors/v8000hd/index.htm

The V7000 is a whole different ballgame... the specs don't indicate the inputs, but I looked at all their models and the V8000HD is the only one that had component. Since the 7000 specs indicate an "AV cable," I'm sure this screen only has composite input, which really isn't going to be acceptable for HD monitoring. The V7000 also only has a power brick, with an adaptor for AA batteries as an accessory. And the resolution is only 234x480. The price is also $450 less than the V8000HD, not $300.

Are you perhaps thinking of the V8000W instead? It's $300 less than the V8000HD. Again, no component input, just VGA and composite.

More info on these here:

http://www.ikancorp.com/pages/monitors/v7000/index.htm
http://www.ikancorp.com/pages/monitors/v8000w/index.htm
http://www.ikancorp.com/pages/monitors/v8000hd/index.htm

Thanks for the excellent information and clarification Boyd. You always provide good stuff.

ikan V8000HD:
I suppose if I needed a little monitor today, this would be my choice.

The more I think about this, there are a few other factors which might influence my decision. Ikan doesn't have the full manual online yet for the V8000HD since it's a new product. But I'm guessing that it doesn't have an underscan mode or a blue only mode. Those features, which I would like, might justify the higher price for the Nebtek...

Varizoom SWIT:
Looked well made and had a nice bright image with component inputs. But it also looked rather soft. Their specs say 1440x234, but I really think that translates into 480x234 (divide by 3 to combine the RGB pixels). I don't think I would be happy with this since it's not very different from the LCD panel on my Z1.

I have that same monitor (unless they've repackaged it with a different LCD) and specs on the back of mine read 800x480

One other company I forgot to mention, Astro Design. I don't see the resolution listed on their site, but this looked like a nice screen (and also looked expensive :-)

http://www.astrodesign.co.jp/english/product/goods.asp?cid=3&code=DM-3011

I found a US site with a bit more info
http://astro-systems.com/

Bill

I talked to the President of Varizoom about their small HD LCD monitor.

He voiced some frustrations with the model and said that they were ready to drop it from their product line. I guess that they have had some bugs with it.

I also looked at the Ikan HD monitor and was impressed with it's quality.

What I want to know is can I get a cable to run it off the power tap on my IDX battery?

The Ikan people said that it would be shipping in a couple of weeks.

Dan Weber

Another model to look at (in the $2500.00 range) is the ERG-Ventures HDM-EV85. http://www.erg-ventures.com/products/85/index.htm

I own one (for use with the Redrock Micro M2) and I love it. I had tried the Marshall, and was not satisfied (due to the way the overscan worked, plus no flip/rotate feature, and over all picture quality).

The EV-85 also has a built-in line generator for different aspect ratios as well.

This seems to be a little know unit, but worth the cost when monitoring HD material.

Todd

I have that same monitor (unless they've repackaged it with a different LCD) and specs on the back of mine read 800x480

Just looked on their site and you're correct - sorry!

http://www.varizoom.com/products/monitors/s1080BP_BC_BJ_BSM.html

Odd - I took those specs from a printed brochure I got at NAB, but I don't have it here at home. So maybe I was looking at the wrong monitor or just misread the specs, will have to check tomorrow.

Thanks for pointing that out!

Thanks for all the input and pics Boyd, very helpful indeed.

Do you know if any of those monitors have a flip function (I need one for my RedRock M2). I know the swit does but if they say they are going to perhaps drop it, it really makes me not want to buy one.

I'm leaning towards the Ikan right now. There is just something that seems off about paying over $1k for a 800x480 LCD. A 1280 x 1024 computer monitor can easily be found for $150, I'm sure there's market demand and science things that all contribute to this, I guess I just don't understand ;)

That ERG has nice specs.

Well now I'm confused (which is nothing new ;-)

See the attached scan of the Varizoom brochure which I picked up at NAB. I assume it's the latest brochure because it has a 5% discount coupon printed on the inside cover, valid April 23-30, 2007. There are two SWIT monitors on this page with different resolutions, although both only have 234 vertical lines.

I think the monitor in my photo is the one at the bottom of this page, based on the label on the top left of the screen "HIGH RESOLUTION TFT-CLD COLOR MONITOR." The monitor on the top of the page says "HIGH DEFINITION TFT-LCD SCREEN". The specs in the brochure say 1440x234, which would work out to 480x234 when you divide by 3 for the RGB pixels.

But on their website they show this same screen, with the same model number (S-1080B) but list the resolution as 800x480: http://www.varizoom.com/products/monitors/s1080BP_BC_BJ_BSM.html

Obviously one of these is wrong, or else there is more than one flavor of S-1080B.

Cory,

Once I get my M2 back (I sent it in for repair due to my clumsiness), I plan on taking pictuers of my rig and posting on the redrock site (here too if anyone is interested), so you can see the ERG monitor.

I know the price was high, but it beats the heck out of having a bunch of 'just off focus' footage. If you can trust your camera's LCD for focus, and just need a monitor for framing, then any of the cheaper LCD's (including ones meant for car installation) would work fine. If you need the monitor for color calibration or focus, then the bucks go up. I was in the same boat as you, and did hours of 'searching' the web for info. Good luck.

Todd

It'd be great to see your set up Todd. Although I'd agree that a monitor like that would be fantastic, spending $2500 may not be doable for me right now. I really only need it for focusing. Framing and color I think I can get close enough with the camera's lcd (although framing would be a lot easier with a 'flipped' monitor because of the M2).

For $2500 I could get a modbook (macbook tablet converted) and have a HD widscreen monitor with direct disk recording with scopebox. If only i could flip the screen on a macbook myself, I could pull that all off for $1k. That's probably just crazy talk though ;)

Hmmm... maybe Varizoom is changing the LCD's in their SWIT series. I have had no problems with the monitor myself. My only complaint is that it seems to drain the battery packs even if the monitor is on or not.

Hello everyone... I know it's been some time since I last chimed in, and I apologize for that. However, I was instructed to lay off the User's Groups for a while. Unfortunately I am receiving so many e-mails from everyone out there that I felt the need to post in order give a little insight into what is going on in the HD LCD realm.

The IKAN as well as the SWIT are "Made in Taiwan" monitors straight from the assembly lines in China. This is not necessarily a bad thing, as there are plenty of solid units like these being used in cars and kiosks all over Asia. The reason they are so cheap is because they use "low-budget" Video Scalers. A lot of people are under the misconception that it is the panel or the programming (no effect on image quality) that has the most to do with the image you see on the monitor. The panel is important, but more important is the type of processing chip you are using to scale the video. I can pretty much guarantee that every single monitor that people are discussing on these boards is using a different panel and video scaler chip set. Don't let yourself get caught up in all of the technical jargon, for example...

I had a customer walk up to me at NAB and ask me if she should buy an IKAN unit. I told her that she would have to be extremely careful with the connectors on the back of the unit, because (like the SWIT monitor) they are soldered directly to the circuitry board. A BNC is a push and twist (to lock) connection, if you apply too much torque when you connect it you can snap one of those connectors off, and crack the board in the process. If you happen to crack the board the unit will probably have to be sent back overseas for repair... And it will probably not be covered under your warranty because it would be operator error. As long as your going to use this monitor in studio conditions, and no one else will be connecting the unit other than you (NO PA's), then if your happy with the picture... BUY IT!!!

It's all about finding the best tools to do the job right at the best price!

Now having said that... NEBTEK is in the unique position of being a company that designs products for it's own technicians to use first before offering them up to the LCD sales division. We have been modifying the Marshall V-R70P series since we bought one (to use with our Z1U) in June of 2006. We thought it had a great picture for the price, was solidly built (the BNC connections are anchored to the chassis) and had a solid feature set. I have had problems focusing in low light conditions (especially with my principles dressed in dark colors against a dark background), but under solid lighting conditions it worked great indoors and out (you'll need to put a Hood on it outside). The only thing I did not like about the unit was the IDX battery mount. We easily solved this by mounting one of our Sony Lithium-ion battery adapters to the back. Once people saw the Marshall LCD on set, and realized we could modify it with either our Sony, Canon, Panasonic or JVC Li-Battery adapters, I started selling the Marshall modified units like crazy... I continue to do so to this day.

The only reason we decided to build our own HD from the ground up was because there were so many customers coming to us saying that they needed this feature (critical focus assist) or that feature (underscan) or the other feature (image flip). There was a real need in the market for a monitor that would address all of these concerns. Well we listened to what everyone had to say and built an HD monitor with the features people asked us for, and the features that we need in the professional film and video field (anamorphic). The reason our monitor was delayed was because no one at NAB 2007 liked the membrane pad controls. It was a great idea in theory (better image adjustment, less likely to break down, better response time) unfortunately it was simply not a "field friendly" interface. We are currently redesigning the unit with buttons and knobs, and it will be ready by July. As long as we continue to work in the field (and customer's call with their feedback), we will continue to build the products that fit everyone's needs.

Will we stop selling Marshall monitors when we release ours?
ABSOLUTELY NOT... it's a solid product for someone that doesn't need all the features our unit has.

Will we recommend any one unit over the other?
No one can judge what you need better than you. If the price was not more important than having the best picture available than everyone would be buying ASTRO monitors at $5k a pop.

Are the Marshall & NEBTEK monitors sharper than the Ikan?
Absolutely, but at a higher price tag.

Will the NEBTEK HAVE more features than the Marshall?
Absolutely, but at a higher price tag.

Will the new Panasonic have more features than the NEBTEK?
Absolutely, but at a higher price tag.

There's the pattern folks... You have to decide what features you want and what those features are worth to you.



I hope this helps,
Rob DuBree
NEBTEK


P.S. The video scaler in our board is powering a 50" LCD in our technicians office as we speak, and the picture is incredible.

So your product will be available in July?

Hello Floris,

We are planning on having the new Prototype with the buttons and knobs (no membrane pad) at Cinegear in June, and being in full production by the end of July.

All the Best,
Rob

Thanks for an excellent post Rob! Will look forward to seeing the new monitor.

Rob...

I've had a NEB64H LCD Monitor mounted on a Glidecam V16 for quite sometime now and it's performed nicely, even in bright daylight. A little cardboard and duct tape helps deal with the occasional shot in full sunlight.

Nice to know that a lot of thought goes into the product. If what I'm working with now is any indication of what you're currently working on, I'd be interested in it somewhere down the line.

Rob Dubree,
What's the guesstimate on pricing of the Nebtek's HD monitor, and are you still planning to have a prototype at Cinegear, and will we be able to compare it to your customized Marshalls?

Thanks,
Lonnie

Heard the price to be around 1700.00.

Hi guys,
Just wanted to chime in and open the door for any questions you might have about the ikan V8000HD on-camera hi-def monitor. Just to clear things up: Our new monitor is not straight off the assembly lines in Taiwan... they actually come off our own assembly lines in China. We design them here in the US and have our guys manufacture them in Asia. So... we are an American company based in Houston with overseas manufacturing connections. In regards to our BNC connectors. I's true that they are soldered directly on the circuit board but it's a very strong connection and the bnc connectors are covered by our warranty. So far we have had no trouble with our connectors.... however, if they do break you can send your monitor to ikan right here in Texas and we will repair it for you. No ikan monitors are ever sent overseas for warranty work. As far as our panels... we use (just like most of the competition) an 800 x 480 panel and scale to 720p/180i. The focusing capability of the V8000HD has been favorably compared to several other on-camera hi-def monitors that are almost twice the cost. Again if you have any questions regarding the monitor, please ask.
Ross Grasse, iKan corp

I have a quick question for you Ross. Where can I find the Ikan V-8000HD? I am located in LA and everywhere I look seems to be out of stock. :-)
Thanks in advance
Taj

Hey Taj,

You can order it from DV Creators: http://dvcreators.net/ikan-8inch-lcd/ It shouldn't take long to arrive by mail!

Thanks Simone

If I wanted to buy an Ikan V-8000HD 8" TFT LCD Canada (Montreal specifically) does anyone know of a reseller here that has it in stock? I noticed that Vistek has it listed (no idea if they have stock) but the price is $899 which seems really really expensive given the exchange rate nowadays and that the monitor is being listed at $750 USD or less in many places. Or how about New York?

Any news on the new Nebtek model? I didn't see it on their website but I could've missed it since I don't know the model name/number.

Any update?

I recently blew my Varizoom Swit on-camera LCD. I use IDX-batteries that have an output voltage of 14.4V and the Swit LCD has a power input of 12V. Although I was originally told this would not be a problem and it actually worked fine for a month, I recently heard that some monitors buy cheap voltage regulators and they don't compensate for small hits in voltage. Apparently Marshall and Ikan claim they have solved the problem.
Has anyone had any similar experiences or have more information on this?

I think Sony's HDV walkman might really tip the scales in the small monitor market if the specs are any indication of what to expect:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665192187

It has a seven inch 1,152,000 pixel LCD screen (480 x 800 x 3) which is comparable to all the other monitors we've been discussing here. But with a price of $1,300 at SonyStyle (maybe less elsewhere?) it's like getting a free tape deck and firewire input. And this feature sounds interesting too:

LCD Profile Control
Customize up to 6 different LCD screen profiles (personal settings); choose from Brightness, Color Depth, Contrast, Sharpness and Color Phase.

More info here: http://news.sel.sony.com/documents/consumer/digital_imaging/camcorders/high_definition/GVHD700Specs.pdf

Late October now- still hoping for that new Nebtek to show up... any news?

Hi guys,
Just wanted to chime in and open the door for any questions you might have about the ikan V8000HD on-camera hi-def monitor. Just to clear things up: Our new monitor is not straight off the assembly lines in Taiwan... they actually come off our own assembly lines in China. We design them here in the US and have our guys manufacture them in Asia. So... we are an American company based in Houston with overseas manufacturing connections. In regards to our BNC connectors. I's true that they are soldered directly on the circuit board but it's a very strong connection and the bnc connectors are covered by our warranty. So far we have had no trouble with our connectors.... however, if they do break you can send your monitor to ikan right here in Texas and we will repair it for you. No ikan monitors are ever sent overseas for warranty work. As far as our panels... we use (just like most of the competition) an 800 x 480 panel and scale to 720p/180i. The focusing capability of the V8000HD has been favorably compared to several other on-camera hi-def monitors that are almost twice the cost. Again if you have any questions regarding the monitor, please ask.
Ross Grasse, iKan corp

Hi Rob

Thanks for the comment. I have heard similar things from UK resellers about the connectors (but jut as much about SWIT too) eitherway, can you recommend outlets in the UK, the one on your site has a "website coming soon" but no contact details. Having a choice of a couple of sources here would be good.

Dom
P.S. I hope we Brits get a dollar converted price (!) So often gear comes across with just a change in the dollar sign and thus a near doubling of the US price!!