I'm in the process of cutting a 30 second commercial, on Final Cut Pro, that will play on a couple of cable channels.
Does the piece need to be exactly 30 second or do I need to leave a little room on the front and back?
Is it different for different cable stations?
Is there a standard duration with blank tags that stations accept or do I need to contact the individual stations to find their requirements?

Thanks,
D

all of the commericals I've done were to the exact time the client bought. Of course I put a slate up front with the color bars and tone but this was on the head before the actual commerical. If the call for 30 seconds give them 30 seconds otherwise you MIGHT mes up their time slots.

Don

Normally the station will have 0.00.31.00 allocated to a commercial spot. Fade out from show .15 fade in to commercial .15 commercial 30.00, and then the fade out, in repeated.

Jim

Great, Thanks for the response.

One other thing, I've been told that they'll accept the spot on MiniDV tape; is this becoming more the norm?

Will I lose any quality?

I shot this on the XL-H1, so it'll be on it's original medium; obvious no gain by going to a Beta tape and digital is digital but if I print to tape (using the H1)am I going to lose anything?

Cheers,
D

David, I do some TV spots here and there and at my local ABC affiliate they don't want MiniDV, they'd actually rather take a DVD (if do you use a DVD just be real careful with compression). Although they prefer Beta, which I may just do in the future for simplicity.

If you shot in DV, and print to DV, you won't lose quality.

Well in Australia they must be exactly 30 seconds. Used to be with 12 frames of not critical audio at the head and tail but nowadays with digital technology running everything they will usually accept 6-8 frames before audio.

Be guided by the stations standard. Contact them personally to be sure. If you submit the comercial on the wrong format, it will not be accepted. Be sure to lay down 60 sec of color bars and tone signal and count down. Make sure your audio is in direct relation to the tone signal
Allen W

Make sure your audio is in direct relation to the tone signal
Allen W

Could you explain what you mean by this?

Could you explain what you mean by this?

Make sure your audio is in direct relation to the tone signal
Allen W

Your tone signal of 1kHz is a reference signal so the proper volume may be set at the broadcasting station based on that signal.
Example; the tone signal is set and recorded at -20db. The volume of recorded video should fall between -20 & -12 with the highest volume going no higher than -12. This gives you head room so un-expected peaks won't lead to distortion. On analog units, to momentarily red line or peak is not a problem. Digital is less forgiving.

If your audio volume is is not in direct relation to the tone signal as described above, when the program is broadcast, it will either be to high or to low.

Allen W

Great info.

Thanks so much.

Cheers,
D

If you shot in DV, and print to DV, you won't lose quality.

That's a common misconception. The only time you wont lose quality is if you do absolutely nothing with the video except cuts. As soon as you add transitions, effects, titles, etc., you will lose quality, because it must be recompressed. I would prefer to use a less compressed codec (especially for a 30 spot).

Yep.... That's why they call it a 30!

For SD NTSC in FCP, just lay a slug on the timeline at 29.29 for a limit mark.

Normally the station will have 0.00.31.00 allocated to a commercial spot. Fade out from show .15 fade in to commercial .15 commercial 30.00, and then the fade out, in repeated.

Jim

So for a 30 second commercial I should make sure I have .15 on each end just for fade, equaling :31? The :30 spot music I just got is actually :31 and 6 frames, which makes me think that the spot should be :31 instead of :30 (which is what I have now.)

Thanks,

Matthew Rogers

So for a 30 second commercial I should make sure I have .15 on each end just for fade, equaling :31? The :30 spot music I just got is actually :31 and 6 frames, which makes me think that the spot should be :31 instead of :30 (which is what I have now.)

Thanks,

Matthew Rogers


No!
All you get is :30 seconds.
Not 31 and 6 frames.
Not 31.
just 30.

Nope 30 seconds is 30 seconds of air time no matter whats up front not 31 not 30.1- station have a very tight schedule to follow and they really prefer cuts at the front and back not fades at least the stations I've supplied commericals to prefer it that way.
If the music isn't 30 seconds then you'd better cut it or have the client send you different music.
I've done enough to know that every station has a set of criteria to follow and if you don't they'll in most cases kick it back to be done correctly-my suggestion is to contact the station it's to be aired on and ask for their criteria.
BTW most station still want BETA some SP many will accept DVD but almost none will take mini or even full size DV tapes.

Don

Most of the television stations that I do commercial reads for like the audio to be no longer than 29.5 for a 30, 14.5 for a 15 etc. Mind you, that's probably a policy that was started in less digital days.

I'm gonna support this.

I've NEVER made a "30 for TV that was longer than 29.5.

The LAST thing you want is the autocue or some heavy handed roll in operator in a cable station to cut off the end of your spot.

Particularly if it's poorly written (like so many) so that the last thing you hear is "call us today at NINE NINE FOUR-EIGHTY EIGHT OH SEVEN and the miss cue cuts off the "oh seven"

(Client meeting: "Gosh, we're spending all this money on the media buy, wonder why nobodys calling???"

For that it's worth.

Well in Australia they must be exactly 30 seconds. Used to be with 12 frames of not critical audio at the head and tail but nowadays with digital technology running everything they will usually accept 6-8 frames before audio.

This is really important. Design the commercial so that all the important audio doesn't start at the very beginning of the commercial nor barely make it in at the end.

The networks are probably very accurate, but cable companies I think can be off by a full second or even two at either the front or back of the commercial in terms of when they cut into your spot or exit your spot. The trick is to not make your commercial boring at the beginning because of this, as that might be just long enough for someone to channel surf.

If you want a more specific idea, consider music the expendable part of the commerical and the dialogue/voiceover the important part (unless you've got a jingle, which is important as well). I recommend repeating the phone number as well if you decide to actually have it said in the commercial since that should guarantee at least one of them is always in play even if there is a bad offset.

Make sure your audio is in direct relation to the tone signal
Allen W

Your tone signal of 1kHz is a reference signal so the proper volume may be set at the broadcasting station based on that signal.
Example; the tone signal is set and recorded at -20db. The volume of recorded video should fall between -20 & -12 with the highest volume going no higher than -12. This gives you head room so un-expected peaks won't lead to distortion. On analog units, to momentarily red line or peak is not a problem. Digital is less forgiving.

If your audio volume is is not in direct relation to the tone signal as described above, when the program is broadcast, it will either be to high or to low.

Allen W


After matching tone to actual show content for over a decade I'm pretty good at. I can actually do the setting in reverse on my own masters, I can set my show contenta audio to the output that I think represents zero, then rewind the tape and have the actual tone that I laid down end up very close to zero, but I don't know how one teaches this to someone who hasn't done it before.

For instance, UVW betacam sp decks are SLOW reacting to audio dynamic range, whereas the PVW betacam sp decks are very fast reacting. I only learned how to do the UVW audio record levels by taking a videotape master made in the UVW betacam sp deck and playing it in preset audio mode in a PVW deck, that was an eye opener.l