$8K is a good price point... let's hope it doesn't creep up between now and release!

All I'm saying is that unless it's priced competitively, why wouldn't you spend a few of thousand dollars more and get a pro camera that's capable of shooting material for anything up to a feature film?

The problem for some of us is that there's a big product/pricing gap between entry-level HD cameras for a few thousand dollars and "pro cameras" costing ~$25-30K or so with a decent lens and accessories. The XDCAM EX sounds like it could be an excellent answer to this problem: slightly larger sensors for better low-light response, higher data rate than HDV for reduced compression artifacts and (hopefully) memory which is more affordable than P2 cards for a practical I.T. workflow. I hope Sony pulls this off, because it's been frustrating not having a product like this out there.

The problem for some of us is that there's a big product/pricing gap between entry-level HD cameras for a few thousand dollars and "pro cameras" costing ~$25-30K or so with a decent lens and accessories. The XDCAM EX sounds like it could be an excellent answer to this problem: slightly larger sensors for better low-light response, higher data rate than HDV for reduced compression artifacts and (hopefully) memory which is more affordable than P2 cards for a practical I.T. workflow. I hope Sony pulls this off, because it's been frustrating not having a product like this out there.

A good thing I see about this new cam is like any competing format, there will likely be a war between Panasonic and Sony for their tapeless solution, SxS for Sony and P2 for Panasonic. This will likely accelerate both size increase and price drops on those memory cards, since a lot of people will consider this the difference maker between the 2 platforms.

An other good thing from the limited info available on the XDCAM EX is that there does not seem to be any tape recording solution on the camera. This marks the begining of the end in "transition" type cameras and while I'm no designing expert, the fact you no longer have to account for tape transport mechanisms must provide simplified (and less expensive) designing options, which I assume could in turn be transformed in either price drops or better technology on other features.

Good point, the lack of a tape system probably pays for a portion of the 1/2" chips as opposed to 1/3"

I'm curious to see how the 24p is handled in this camera.......

It says CineAlta on it, so maybe, just maybe :D

Let's not forget that being able to record up to an hours worth of media on a single card is making this very interesting for us long-form corporate types.

This looks promising. I've been waiting and waiting for "the camera" for me. I'm still using a PD-150 which I actually like a lot. I didn't want to jump into HD until I saw a camera which had the particular features that I felt were important. This camera is looking promising and if it delivers as promised it will be my next camera. Real lens, half inch chips, the benefits of tapeless but without the huge costs.....it looks good so far.....

I found out that it’s a 3 CMOS camera and its expected to be released this November.

Scroll down and you will see a graphic of the camera and a 16 GB card
http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=158





I stole the link of this thread:
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=91617

I know that the artist's mock up drawing says 3 CMOS but has that been confirmed? All the information I've read says that it may or may not be CMOS instead of CCD's.

Here’s a post of mine from February 14
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=625523#post625523
“If you think about, if Panasonic looses the tape drive of the HVX200, they could easily make the chips bigger than 1/3” and/or add more P2 card slots.”
Sony ends up doing what I predicted Panasonic would do. Get rid of the tape deck and you are able to fit bigger imagers.

Since Sony didn’t want to use Blu-Ray discs, they should have a portable Blu-Ray storage drive just like the DVD drive that you can get for the JVC HD7. Hopefully by November they are able to make it as small as JVC’s DVD drive.

Panasonic could still be a big force if they release a successor to the HVX200 with bigger imagers and the 100mbps AVC codec.

The concept drawing of the EX has many inaccuracies. The camera is 3xCCD's. Possibly the same ones that are on the current XDCAM HD.

For Sony releasing this thing for fewer than 8,000 dollars is a very good deal when you consider what you’re getting. Now if only Sony can release this thing early.

Let's not forget that being able to record up to an hours worth of media on a single card is making this very interesting for us long-form corporate types.

Precisely, which is why i am so excited about this unit..
the biggest downside to P2 is the speed of transfer and card capacity itself...

Not bad, not bad at all. Of course we will have to wait and see what the quality is really like but I see no reason why it shouldn't at least be better then the best current HDV camera.

About the only thing this cameras does not seem to have is the 4:2:2 50 mbit mode. in a way that is a little sad. While 4:2:2 is not all that bad this still gives the HVX200 one tiny advantage which is recording 4:2:2 right in the camera. If SONY would allow the 4:2:2 mode on this camera there would almost be no point to consider the Panasonic unless somebody were a loyal Panasonic user. Of course with HD-SDI we have some pretty good 4:2:2 options but that just isn't the same as having 4:2:2 recording right in the camera. Lets hope SONY decides to put the 50 mbit mode into this camera.

lack of 4:2:2 may sound like a buzzkill, but the xdcam-hd cams on the market now have FANTASITC pictures. They key better than the HVX, and all around wipe the floor with it image-wise. This thing would be essentially the same (or higher-res?) imagers and codec as used in the current XDCAM-HD line. So far, there haven't been any complaints from 330 or 350 users regarding image quality or keying-ability. Obviously, nobody can tell until we see footage, but having seen side-by-side pictures from the varicam, hvx, and 350, I can tell you that at this point the HDV35 and DVCPRO-HD debate is largely a numbers game that reflects little of the reality of the situation. Sure, it would be nice to have clean 4:2:2 to the card at 100 mbits with 1" chips...(and well trained AC's stuffed in the box to pull focus) all for <$3000.... but seriously. I was VERY skeptical of the sony XDCAM approach when it came out. On paper the 350 should have been even, or slightly worse than the HVX. 4:2:0 vs. 4:2:2. 35mbit vs. 100mbit. But, as has been discussed to no end, numbers dont tell the whole story all the time. Compression is like voodoo, or chaos theory, or both. There are so many factors that affect image quality

I've seen enough from their upmarket products to believe that if Sony actually brings this cam to the market, it will make fantastic images... We can nitpick all we want, but the pictures we're getting today for less than 10,000 are pretty amazing, and they just keep improving. Obviously, there's never going to be a time when we say "yeah, it's good enough now. Don't improve it anymore." But, like 1080i vs. 720p, or 4:2:2 vs. 4:2:0, better isn't always measured by bullet points on a product sheet. Sometimes, it just depends on the implimentation.

Yes, i agree with Thomas about missing the 422 colour space that the HVX offers, however, i'd probably still pick this new camera over an HVX still, mainly due to its sensor size/res, the hvx's main downfall.

I also love the fact that Sony have kept up the world wide support with both 50/60i modes in the camera. Something the HVX does not have.

Im hoping that Sony will release a version of this camera, or possibly another Model supporting SxS that will record at 50mbps.

Come on Sony, we dont need 100, 50 will do, honest.

Personally, im a bit saddened as to the loss of the tape deck, as theres still a lot of dv/dvcam work here NZ to be shot on tape and i doubt i'd keep my Z1 if i bought this camera.

Still, this camera looks like a nice step forward and im definitely going to be keeping my eye on its development.. aka i really hope it gets redesigned to be not so ugly.

Talked to someone in the know, and they said the camera is definitely coming, it's still being developed. Said that a PC card camera is effective and easy to manufacture. So, this is great news indeed!

heath

Said that a PC card camera is effective and easy to manufacture.

In the presentation at the Sony booth they were making a big deal of the fact that the XDCAM EX uses Express Card technology instead of PC Card, which results in much higher throughput.

In the presentation at the Sony booth they were making a big deal of the fact that the XDCAM EX uses Express Card technology instead of PC Card, which results in much higher throughput.

Although that extra speed is surplus to requirement for this particular application...

P2 = 640Mb/s
Express Card = 2.5Gb/s

XDCAM HD Recording Data Rate = 35Mb/s

Of course there is some advantage at the ingest end if you have a fairly good RAID.

There is also the fact that soon some laptops may no longer have PC slots in them since the format is being replaced by Express Card slots. We all know there isn't much space on a laptop and I myslef would prefer to have a laptop with two or three Express card slots and ditch the PC card slot. Pretty much any expansion card I would ever want to buy for my laptop would pretty much need the Express card bandwidth anyway.

Personally, im a bit saddened as to the loss of the tape deck, as theres still a lot of dv/dvcam work here NZ to be shot on tape and i doubt i'd keep my Z1 if i bought this camera.

Then again, it might be useful for some of us to have one camera like the XDCAM EX plus one or more Z1-caliber cameras to use for "B" roll or projects where the better camera isn't required. Or if the XDCAM EX becomes available as a rental model, keep the Z1s and just get the EX when you really need it.

Interesting. I always thought the point was for the EX to be the B-camera to the other XDCAM HD's!

Any hint of what the likely zoom range will be? With a 1/2" sensor I'd think that could be an issue, and a wide-angle attachment will probably be required for some uses.

Any hint of what the likely zoom range will be? With a 1/2" sensor I'd think that could be an issue, and a wide-angle attachment will probably be required for some uses.

The lens is reported to be a Fujinon 14X. The wide end focal length appears to be 5.8mm, which works out to be about 32.5mm equivalent. So it's just as wide as a Z1U, HVX200 or XH-A1.

The lens is reported to be a Fujinon 14X. The wide end focal length appears to be 5.8mm, which works out to be about 32.5mm equivalent. So it's just as wide as a Z1U, HVX200 or XH-A1.

If true that's excellent news! Dang, it's almost like someone at Sony actually found out what we all want and designed a camera around it...

:-)

it's almost like someone at Sony actually found out what we all want and designed a camera around it...

Many true words are spoken in jest.

I had a light-bulb moment earlier today - shooting to ExpressCard would completely solve my shooting ratio problem. The Z1 is a great Event Videographer camera, but not really: often you're fishing for shots with the tape rolling hoping to get the gesture, the smile, the shower of sparks, the sound-bite, etc. With the rolling record function, problem solved.

"Just give me an HD camcorder that can do in low light what a PD150 can do". I guess the 1/2" sensor does that. "I'd love an F-350 for its image quality, but quite frankly could do without the weight and the bulk". I guess the EX does that too. Much as I love (and have grown to rely on) the shot transition feature - not just pulling focus, but pulling focus, iris, zoom AND shutter speed, great for insane exposure differences - the Z1 lens disappoints. The EX appears to have a way of disengaging servos. We can pop focus and fidget the zoom to please our directors or at least emulate some of the passe tricks of broadcast cameras (oops, sorry, moving on).

I'm getting the feeling that Sony's dropping these toys into our basket and watching/listening. Excellent move. The EX is spot on, just need to sort the back panel, the battery orientation (and hopefully compatible with the NPR-970 series), a shoulder mount solution, a LANC that controls the Shot Transition function, an underscan viewfinder that works in all formats, a Preset TC "+1" function (or maybe I'm out of touch), and hopefully an instant start (for all those who've filmed with HDV on tape).

But the nurse says I must rest now. Please excuse the crayon...

I have read through this thread and Sony's press release, but I don't see the difference between these two camcorders. Is one supposed to have CCDs with a Fujinon lens while the other has a Canon lens?

Artist Impression vs Concept Mockup...

All subject to change at the manufacturers whim.

... I don't see the difference between these two camcorders. Is one supposed to have CCDs with a Fujinon lens while the other has a Canon lens?

There's so many differences between the artists rendition & the mockup, it's ridiculous :)

Bill

It seemed pretty far along this morning when I played with it: http://studiomusic.free.fr/jour%203/MoiEtEX.jpg
Fit and finish were very good. The focus and zoom were a little clicky though.

Now if it would just turn on... and we could purchase it in the shops... I'd be REALLY happy.

(Please Sony, don't water down the features before it gets to sale).

Since Sony didn’t want to use Blu-Ray discs, they should have a portable Blu-Ray storage drive just like the DVD drive that you can get for the JVC HD7. Hopefully by November they are able to make it as small as JVC’s DVD drive.

Panasonic could still be a big force if they release a successor to the HVX200 with bigger imagers and the 100mbps AVC codec.
I’m going to also add that this portable recorder should not only have a memory card slot for immediate transfers to an XDCAM disc but also to standard Blu-Ray discs so that you can play it on your Blu-Ray player.

It wouldn’t be too expansive because it wouldn’t need a built in LCD screen. While having the device hooked up to the XDCAM EX, you view the material off the camera’s LCD screen.


Since Sony is only indicating that it’ll be priced below 8,000 dollars, I think their waiting to see what Panasonic has in the works so I wouldn’t be surprised if Sony releases it for 7,000 dollars with a 16 gig card.

One thing that appears to be missing over the bigger XDCAM HD cams is the 4 channel audio.

I would love to have 4 channel audio - even if it's stereo from the built-in mic plus two XLR inputs..

Then again, it might be useful for some of us to have one camera like the XDCAM EX plus one or more Z1-caliber cameras to use for "B" roll or projects where the better camera isn't required. Or if the XDCAM EX becomes available as a rental model, keep the Z1s and just get the EX when you really need it.

Yup true.

Im going to be very interested in the development of this cameras lens, i said to myself when i bought my z1 that it'd be last fixed lens i ever bought and the next camera was going to have real glass (ala pdw350 or dsr450), and after working with panny SPX800s on OB's for the past 6 months I still am trying to stick to that comment.

However, if we can get some real stops on this lens.. the fixed aspect might not be so much of an issue.

..if we can get some real stops on this lens.. the fixed aspect might not be so much of an issue.

My sentiments, too.

I'm still intrigued by the "release" button near the record trigger...

Artist Impression vs Concept Mockup...

All subject to change at the manufacturers whim.

Well, if that's the case then I must say the top one looks a lot nicer than the one on the bottom.

I agree, The top one looks very nice, the bottom one looks like a digital back with a lens attached

... the top ones effectively a slightly mod'd Z1...

I'm still intrigued by the "release" button near the record trigger...Answered at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=662747&postcount=39

Thanks Chris.

Is it mentioned what kind of outputs it will have (component, hd-sdi, hdmi)?

I'd think HDMI, but keep in mind, it's flash-based, so maybe only firewire. But Sony is pushing HDMI in their new HDV units.

heath

Is it mentioned what kind of outputs it will have (component, hd-sdi, hdmi)?

The photos of the Unit shown at NAB show it has HD-SDI.

You can see that in this photo which Chris attached in another thread. - http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachment.php?attachmentid=2791&d=1176712062

Keep in mind this unit is still only a mockup unit however.

So Sony does have a portable XDCAM drive, the PDW-U1. I know it reads and writes to the discs by using a computer but does anybody know if I would be able to hook up the XDCAM EX to this without a computer to transfer the footage from memory card to Blu-ray?

idearly, what sony should do, is a P2 store like device that is effectively the PDW-U1, that has an SxS card reader in it. One touch transfer from SxS to XD disc would be very nice.

A possible future XDCAM EX product for the line up? i can only dream.

idearly, what sony should do, is a P2 store like device that is effectively the PDW-U1, that has an SxS card reader in it. One touch transfer from SxS to XD disc would be very nice.

A possible future XDCAM EX product for the line up? i can only dream.
That’s what I said to
http://dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=662181#post662181


If Sony doesn’t have such a unit already planned then they better work on one. I predict a big percentage of people who plan on buying the XDCAM EX will also buy this unit.

I sincerely hope that we can get our hands on this camera before at least November

I posted on another thread about this camera. I had one in my hands yesterday for about 10 minutes. This iS NOT a mockup. I powered up the camera and worked it for a few minutes but I had no media to record on. It is subject to being tweaked before final release so I would call this a pre-production unit. IIRC, I saw 81.5mm on the barrel for full tele.

The only thing I noticed (again this is a pre-production unit), was that it seemed to take longer than expected from flicking on power until the camera was ready to go.

Weight wise, about the same as a Z1. Very well balanced. I did the one finger under the handle trick and the camera sat perfectly level. It also looks like Sony crammed as many switches and controls on the body as they could to avoid having to go into menus.

This is an excellent b-camera to the bigger size disc cameras. The idea is to record on flash, then archive to Professional Disc.

Exciting times, these are!

-gb-

Thanks Greg.

I definitely hope that this comes out in Sept. (I go into filming in Oct. for a feature film using the V1U... I'd much rather go the XDCAM EX way).

I need to ask the guys over at Redrock Micro if their M2 will work with a 1/2" sensor (I know they didn't 'support' 2/3" cams, but that's a different topic anyway...).

Todd

Well in the presentation they said it would be available "by the end of the year." Unfortunately, that rarely means November or September but I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

Yeah, I figured their release time would be more like Dec. I remember that the V1U was supposed to be released earlier than it did (I got mine in Mid-Dec.), but I guess there's no harm in hoping...