I've heard this morning from my video rental house that Hoodman is working on P2 cards for the HVX 200.
should be release by NAB at prices 30% lower than Panasonic.
can anyone confirm this?

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Admin Update 06 Feb. 2008: Hoodman Corporation has cancelled its P2 card project.

See http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost.php?p=821325&postcount=80 / Admin

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https://nab2007.bdmetrics.com/portal/ViewCompany.aspx?id=3052837


Hhmmm, who knows ?!?!??! Anyone going to NAB please check it out. . .

I definitely will.
e.

I hope for affordable P2 cards, because IMO Panasonic is Charging too much, by this time they should be cheaper... I don't think an 8GB should cost $700.

I hope for affordable P2 cards, because IMO Panasonic is Charging too much, by this time they should be cheaper... I don't think an 8GB should cost $700.

Panasonic recently lowered the price of 8Gb p2 cards to $700.00.

I just bought one for $650.00

This is fascinating and welcome news, especially if this truly adds to another channel of getting P2 media.

I'm working in the Panny booth this year and will make it a point to get with the Hoodman people and see what info I can gather. Maybe they'll let me take a demo card (if they have any) over to our Panny display area and try one out. At any rate, I'll be reporting back whatever I learn.

r. Maybe they'll let me take a demo card (if they have any) over to our Panny display area and try one out. At any rate, I'll be reporting back whatever I learn.

Nothing is available as yet.

If you want to speak to someone, talk to Lou Schmidt, VP of Marketing.

Eric,
Who's your rental house?

Panasonic just announced 16GB P2 at $900 and 32GB at $1800.

Panasonic announced where? Link?

Panasonic just announced 16GB P2 at $900 and 32GB at $1800.

Dont tease us now...

Sorry for not including the link:

http://shop.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/prModelDetail?storeId=11301&catalogId=13251&itemId=113555&modelNo=Content04122007033244804&surfModel=Content04122007033244804

I checked out the Hoodman P2 competitor (well the info on it at the booth). It is called the RAW-H2 (or something to that effect) and will composed of a single solid state card inside instead of the Panny 4 SD cards currently inside he P2...they claim it will be faster and cheaper

JJ

I checked out the Hoodman P2 competitor (well the info on it at the booth). It is called the RAW-H2 (or something to that effect) and will composed of a single solid state card inside instead of the Panny 4 SD cards currently inside he P2...they claim it will be faster and cheaper

JJ

When I passed by the booth I asked to take a working sample back to the Panny Prodcution area where all of "us" consultants could have put it through it's paces; the answer was that they weren't ready for any testing yet. To be sure, somebody from the Panny consultant network will be doing this (if not myself) as soon as possible.

I checked out the Hoodman P2 competitor (well the info on it at the booth). It is called the RAW-H2 (or something to that effect) and will composed of a single solid state card inside instead of the Panny 4 SD cards currently inside he P2...they claim it will be faster and cheaper

JJ
Is that how they really are building the current P2's? Then why the heck don't they let us record to SD cards just like a P2 card? I'd love to be able to swap in a 2-4gb sd card for only 30-60 bones a pop.

Anyone have an idea of how much these cards will retail for?

Is that how they really are building the current P2's? Then why the heck don't they let us record to SD cards just like a P2 card? I'd love to be able to swap in a 2-4gb sd card for only 30-60 bones a pop.

The 4 SD cards in the P2 card are first and foremost, ZERO DEFECT spec memory cards. That adds a lot to the price right there. Secondly, the P2 enclosure is actually a mini RAID array using those four SD cards. This is necessary for the data rates required by DVCPRO HD @ 100mb.

So to answer your question, it's not a matter of Panasonic taking a few SD cards and putting them in a different enclosure just to charge a hefty premium.

-gb-

Something of note that I was told at the Hoodman booth is that they expect to beat Panny to market on the 32 GB cards by a few months. For prices they were hoping to be around 10 to 20 percent lower than Panasonic. (Earlier they had said 30%, but that was before Panasonic lowered their prices.)

They also told me that they were pleasantly surprised by the positive feedback coming from the Panny booth. They were actually having people directed to their booth from Panasonic's. It was encouraging to me to see Panasonic being so progressive in encouraging an open market for the P2 cards.

I'm not surprised that Panny is 'less than annoyed' with Hoodman - running a storage format by yourself is a big gamble, having others take up the hardware shows the maturity of the product.

It's good for Panny to have 'competitors' - I bet their hoping that others take up the P2 method - owning the design specs of a popular storage method is a good place to be.

Good for customers as well, we all win.

Hey - my first post! Hello from South Australia, everyone! :D

Welcome to the forum, Peter!

We were all anxious to get our hands on the Hoodman version of P2, but as I mentioned earlier they weren't allowing any test samples - yet.

Although P2 is highly specialized in that is has intelligence built into the RAID controller it is in fact another form of fast re-writable storage. It was only a matter of time before somebody came to the playing field with their version however I'm "hoodwinked" (pun intended) that it didn't come from a media manufacturer first.

The big questions are: How well will Hoodmans' P2 interface with all the P2 devices and how will it affect the Panny warranty on it's equipment? It's too early to know any of this so it will be interesting how this all shakes out. Of most importance to me, is that Panny's own 16GB cards will require a firmware update in a few devices before it will communicate properly, so how has Hoodman devised a compatible communication protocol?

When the first HVX was released many of us (myself included) experimented with alternative methods for recording via the P2 slots and, the Cineporter which is designed to be a P2-only device has also been met with it's challenges in coming to market. My point being, I hope Hoodman has pulled off what nobody other than Panny has been able to accomplish - so far. If they do it can only be good things for everyone including Panny.

I'm kind of nervous to start using a 16g card. I'm always afraid of a card freaking out on me. I guess, in some way, the 8g card kind of makes me feel that if it fails, at least I didn't lose a whole day of shooting and I'll know sooner than later. Even though the 16g and 32g sounds awesome because I'd love to shoot more 1080p24 and not have to dump to the p2 store as often.

Aren't you guys a little nervous about using a 3rd party's cards?

I am nervous but as always with new gears, test test and test again.
Take the card through the whole work flow, test playback in the camera and in P2 readers (P2 store, P2 drive, laptop ...) if it passes, chances are it's solid.
e.

True. I have to admit that I'm kind of lazy and rely on these kinds of message boards for that kind of testing most of the time. There's always someone who knows more than you do, right?

that's true too, but when it comes to make sure something works, nothing 's better than doing it yourself.

I checked out the Hoodman P2 competitor (well the info on it at the booth). It is called the RAW-H2 (or something to that effect) and will composed of a single solid state card inside instead of the Panny 4 SD cards currently inside he P2...they claim it will be faster and cheaper
JJ

Not sure how you get a single memory chip to go faster than a Raid 0 at 640Mbs. Might be cheaper but I question faster. We will only know when they deliver.

Best,

jan

Aren't you guys a little nervous about using a 3rd party's cards?

I wouldn't be: there are millions of people all over the world using generic flash memory cards for digital photography, and we don't hear widespread horror stories of these cards failing or damaging cameras. Of course it would be sensible to test any new P2 or P2-alternative card thoroughly before doing a critical shoot.

Good points.

I wouldn't be: there are millions of people all over the world using generic flash memory cards for digital photography, and we don't hear widespread horror stories of these cards failing or damaging cameras.

Totally different market. You don't think some people end up with a digital glitches on a single photos or possibly a corrupt image every now and then? Still cameras can hold thousands of individual little files. In the video world one corrupt bit can render 10 minutes of corrupt video since it is all one file. That is the reason P2 cards have zero defect memory....there is too much at risk.

Similar scenario to domestic automobiles and race cars. I use cheap tires on my car cause I never go fast enough to reveal their defects. If you put these tires under the stress and load of a race car they would likely fall apart in no time!

In the video world one corrupt bit can render 10 minutes of corrupt video since it is all one file. That is the reason P2 cards have zero defect memory....there is too much at risk.

That's an interesting point, but I doubt we'll hear many stories of corrupted video as more and more people record same to generic flash memory cards, using either still cameras or AVCHD video cams. Flash memory should pretty much either work or not; isn't that supposed to be one of the advantages compared to recording to tape? In any case, it's certainly good advice to test a P2 card before recording something critical on it -- generic or otherwise. And if you really want reliability, record simultaneously to an HDD recorder (e.g. Firestore).

I doubt we'll hear many stories of corrupted video as more and more people record same to generic flash memory cards, using either still cameras or AVCHD video cams. Flash memory should pretty much either work or not; isn't that supposed to be one of the advantages compared to recording to tape? (e.g. Firestore).

It is supposed to be....but is it? Granted tape can have problems but as a general rule we all pay an extra couple bucks per tape to make sure we are using the "high quality" tape. Just like a hard drive (except no moving parts) the files are stored on the media as files. If a bit becomes corrupt or an area of memory has a glitch it can render a lot of video useless. On tape, most of a clip is still there, except for dropouts. I know I have had large files on my hard drive become corrupt. Once something goes wrong with the file system I've lost everything. Had to recapture it all. Thank god that was an option.

I do suffer from one or two pictures inside my Sandisk Extreme 3 8GB CF being corrupted. Camera is Nikon D2X. Granted is one or two pictures out of a few thousand pictures. But I can't go back to recapture the scenes again.

Tape - I did experience a couple of horror stories as well. Was using my Canon XL1 in Everest Base Camp - air temperature was in the minus 10 deg C region. I did my best to warm up the camera in the sun, etc ... but, still the tape got stuck to the capstan and took me 30 minutes to retrieve the contents without damaging the camera. The tape itself was shot. Happened more than once during the 4 months I was there.

So, there are NO one perfect recording media that you can have. Even if you take backups - there is no guarantee that the backup will be perfect too. The price we pay for in the digital world.

The price we pay for in the digital world.
Hey, it didn't start with digital -- don't get me started on "checking the gate for hairs" etc!

Although P2 is highly specialized in that is has intelligence built into the RAID controller it is in fact another form of fast re-writable storage. It was only a matter of time before somebody came to the playing field with their version however I'm "hoodwinked" (pun intended) that it didn't come from a media manufacturer first.


Robert,

Why would that be? I would not expect ANY of the major media makers to be interested in making a P2 card. P2 is a small niche based on an interface that was being phased out when Pany introduced the cards. Everything forth is currently based on the express card interface and designed for multiple use, not a one product pony.

If another camera maker or two had opted to license and use P2 from Pany then you would probably have seen one of the media makers jump in.

K

What? I thought P2 was the wave of the future. Wait a minute, here. Why would a third party manufacturer produce a high priced item that most users will only buy 2 or 3 of? Doesn't this problem get worse as storage space increases? I'm not trashing on the HVX or a very viable medium. I'm just curious. The express card slot is very exciting indeed.

ExpressCard is just another interface. You've already got CardBus, ExpressCard, SD, miniSD, microSD, CompactFlash, Memory Stick, MMC, and probably a half dozen other interfaces (or form factors or whatever you want to call it). And for whatever interface you don't have, there's an adapter.

I mean, I don't see a single computer anywhere in the world that can read an XDCAM HD disc, right? Is there any computer anywhere in the world that can read an HDV tape? They all have to use decks or adapters or something. Having the CardBus slot built-in is highly convenient for P2 users, but even if every laptop manufacturer did away with CardBus, there's always adapters, just like every other format has always had to use (except that instead of being a $17,000 deck or a $300 camcorder, the P2->ExpressCard adapter is either a) free because it's your own camera, or b) $119 for the DuelAdapter).

It's all in how you look at it. I'm staring at an old PVW2800 with the power off right now because of P2.

Convenient? I'm in Beantown with P2Lou today shooting mad and archiving in the passenger seat of my van barreling down the expressway at 65 bumping all over......There's always a way to make things work.....you just do it!

Does anyone have an update on these cards?

Latest I heard was 60 days past the firmware update which occurred in mid March

The firmware update came out May 8, so by their schedule we shouldn't expect to see anything from Hoodman until at least early July.

Wanted to let you guys know, I spoke to the Hoodman Sales Rep and she said the Hoodman H2 cards are expected to come out at the end of the summer 07. At first they will only have the 16gb cards, later on they will have the 32gb. She had no answer for me when exactly they would be available or the price but she said they would be available at around 10% less than the Panasonic price point. Hopefully they'll be on the way sooner than that, but if the price and performance is good, it'll be worth the wait. Also no word on compatibility issues with the p2 store but i doubt there really would be any.

I have doubts the P2Store will work with 32GB P2 cards without a corresponding Firmware upgrade. 8GB -> 16GB requires one. So, I think 16GB -> 32GB might also require another one. This means - even if Hoodman introduces their 32GB cards before Panasonic releases theirs, nobdoy in the world could use it until Pana releases their firmware for all their h/w (P2 cameras, P2 store, software for PC, etc).

I thought the firmware upgrade was because of the new type of SD cards in the 16GB and 32GB P2 cards... it wasn't just a size issue, so I was thinking there'd be no need for another firmware upgrade. But I, for one, will probably stop using the P2Store in the field once the 32GB cards come out, unless you can upgrade the HDD.

I don't think the 32GB P2 card will obsolete the P2Store. I think of more extending the recording time in the field. It sure beats carrying a laptop around. It is rugged, and relatively compact. If you have to film in remote locations for one month and cannot go back to base to unload the P2 card(s), even a 32GB card will get filled up as well. 32GB = 1 hour at 720p. Hence one P2Store will hold 2 hours of video. If you carry one P2 store + 2 x 32GB P2 cards, you can get 4 hours to record. I hope you see the point?

call me crazy, but if I were Panny, I'd have already programmed the 32GB fix into the 16GB firmware, especially since I had already announced the coming of the 32GB P2. seems like a much better use of non-recurring resources.

I certainly hope so too. But it takes only 15 minutes to download and update the firmware for P2store and another 10 minutes for the DVX202 - well, I won't raise a stink even if Panny were not to include the 32GB firmware inside the existing update.

I don't think the 32GB P2 card will obsolete the P2Store.

The P2Store has a 60GB HDD (usable space is actually less).... that means ONE full 32GB card can fit on it. For the price, you might as well just get an extra 32GB card. Like I said... unless you can upgrade the HDD.

I believe the issue is that the P2 Store must be FAT32 which has a 4GB file size limit and a limit of 15 partitions. There is not an easy way around that. Even if you put a 160GB drive in the P2 Store, you would only get 15 4GB partitions.

If there ever is an update to P2 Store it has got to be a lot better in use and value. I would like to see a 160GB version with an LCD screen and the ability to record directly to it. You will never see that though as Panny has a vested interest in selling you more P2 cards. It would truly be a killer app though.



ash =o)

I believe Panny has a box - which comes with a LCD panel and allows you to copy P2 cards to external USB2 drives. Can't remember the model off hand. It takes the normal Panny LiON battery that you use for the P2Store too. Only problem - it does not supply power to the USB2 external drives. So - you have to carry a power source for the external USB2 drive. It does cost 2.5X the price of the P2Store. And does not have an internal HD too :-(((.

The file size limit is 4GB, but the partition limit isn't. An individual partition could be as much as 2 terabytes in size.

So if you were able to put a 160GB drive in there, you could potentially copy 10 16GB cards to it. If you're using 8GB cards, you'd run into the 15-partition limit, so you'd want to use a 120GB drive; with 16GB cards you could almost take full advantage of a 200GB drive.

But afaik nobody's ever swapped out a P2 Store drive, so this is all hypothetical.

I believe Panny has a box - which comes with a LCD panel and allows you to copy P2 cards to external USB2 drives. Can't remember the model off hand. It takes the normal Panny LiON battery that you use for the P2Store too. Only problem - it does not supply power to the USB2 external drives. So - you have to carry a power source for the external USB2 drive. It does cost 2.5X the price of the P2Store. And does not have an internal HD too :-(((.


That box is the "P2 Gear"; it's basically an HVX200 without a lens, but with a few more features, some of them kind of nice. It has two card slots, can load metadata on an SD card, and can offload to firewire drives. But it can also offload to USB drives, and supplies bus power for USB. And its monitor has a waveform monitor and a vectorscope.

No internal storage, but storage is whatever you have plugged into its USB or firewire port.

I know the partition size isnt limited but the file size is but the cards take care of that. As far as P2 gear, it is missing the internal HDD and is too expensive IMHO. At $2000 with a HDD it would make more sense. At $4000 (the price last time I checked) it is pretty silly, that is a brand new top of the line laptop, 2 16GB cards and 2 160GB external drives.



ash =o)