Hello,

I have been contacted to plan out and film a documentary for a person, very well known. The wierd thing is he got my contact information from a previous client, from a wedding of all things.

This person wants a documentary about their life put together, in the style of VH1 Behind the music so to speak.

Starting off with filming at their actual house they grew up in, to the high school college dorm all of that.

Problem is, I have never shot a documentary in my life, I have NO idea how to quote this. I'm shooting with a HD110u with all the cool toys.

The person has ties to Discovery channel and has informed me that he has "bought" interest in discovery channel to air this documentary once it is done. I won't be doing the editing at all, just the actual filming, narattion will be by a different person.

I am in Charlotte NC, but this will literally take me all over the USA.

I don't even know how to quote something like this, I'm worried if I tell them something like $15,000 they'll walk away, but they already told me that after speaking with several other potential videographers that it would take at least a few months to get it all into a package.

This person wants me to include interviews with him, as well as filming at his house with his family, out in public and so on.

I can't say who it is, but I can give a hint.
He's a basketball player living in Charlotte NC, pretty damn famous too.
I would guess 95% of the world knows his name.
That makes me VERY nervous.


What do I want?

I want at least some kind of credits on the screen that advertise my company shown by itself for at least a few seconds.
This is the type job that will propel me into broadcast type work easily.

Also what would you film this in?

I'm going to use tape with a hard drive backup.


4:3, 16:9?

As far as what to charge, remember this is a business and you are in business to make money.
First figure out how many shooting days out of how many days. In other words will you be shooting 35 out of 60 days or would it be 35 out of 90 days or perhaps 35 out of 45 days. I'm just grabbing some numbers and tossing them out but you get the idea. REALISTICALLY how many shooting days? Who's paying for travel? You and then are you getting reimbursed or is the client making all the arrangements. Travel is Planes, trains and automobiles PLUS overnight stays (hotels) meals etc. Do you need to schlep aound any lighting equipment-how about audio-do you need a 2nd or 3rd crew person-gotta charge for them AND their travel and meals (if necessary) Do you need to RENT special gear for this job if so remember to charge for it.
Now the fun part. Remember when I ask how many shooting days in how many days? There's a reason. Sometimes I've had clients for corporate work pay me a % up front then additional monies at say 10 days or 15 or even once a while back it kicked in at 32 days (it was a very large 61 day shoot over a 90 day time frame) OR perhaps a % up front a % at X time and the balane when you finish the shoot BUT who's paying for reshoots later when the client says I like it but lets shoot it again.
These are all the kinds of things you need to get straight with BEFORE you sign anything to do this job and when you do finally get everything in order make sure you have an attorney draw up a legal agreement with ALL of the shooting parameters,schedule, who pays what when in writing and the client signs it BEFORE you shoot. If this client is what you say he shouldn't have any problem doing that. No one should do any job much less a job like this without a written agreement.
Oh yeah the important thing-what's your day rate-multiply that by the number of shooting days-add out of pocket expenses and THATS what you charge. Again if this client is what he says he is then he'll be used to a big number. If and how much you might reduce the rate (discount) or ADD to it to CYA is up to you.
I know I left stuff out but it's early and I think there's enough to get you started.

Don

Day rate?

Where I live there aren't many "professional" videographers, though half show up with their walmart mini dv $200 cam and profess they are.

I don't turn my camera on for less then $250 an hour and it's what I have gotten from the last 17 clients in the last month.

I'd figure a working day to be tops 10 hours at most.

That's the other thing, I am suppossed to be filming some NASCAR, as well as a backstage shot at a RUSH concert as well as several weddings and Demo reels (For mucisians.)

I'm actually missing out on at LEAST $15,000 and no that's not a joke.
RUSH has already sent me a check down payment for $4700 to film their show in tenessee.


I can make it to RUSH, it's only one night, but it would be no sleep for 3 days minimum.
I have to ask myself, this oppurtunity is GREAT, but am I killing myself in the long run?

As far as travel, they said they would pay me 34 cents per mile. That sounds great but that's just gas coverage, not covering anything on my car such as wear and tear.

The food Stipend is $40 per day.

Each tape to film costs me $30 , I use the sony hd tapes.
So figure maybe in an 8 hour day thats 8 tapes X 15

Well thats alot of tapes right there...

Realisticaly shooting days at minimum would probably be maybe 10-15 or so.
But to drive to almost every state in the USA to a specific location?

Be in Philadelphia today, pittsburg tomorrow, stop by hagerstown md, then go to baltimore, oops, get your ass to lousiana now...

ALOT of driving, I think my wife figured it close to 5,000 miles just driving.
These will be 12 hour days in the car, get out shoot for an hour, get back in the car type deal.


Hell, I don't know what to tell the guy. He wants me to film the actual house he grew up in and then go to his high school which was 4 states away, then his college which, I believe is right where you are, Chicago.

Well I'm just throwing some stuff out her-if it applies great if not skip by it.

First would you actually be shooting 8 hours in a day
Second would you really need to be in the locations from 1 day to the next
Third 34 cents a mile I think is less than what the IRS is allowing (I could be wrong as I let my accountant handle it)
Fourth do you really want to go for 3 day without sleep?

Since you've already got comittments for certain times can you adjust the shooting schedule with this client around those times?
In my opinion you can not bypass these previous comittments especially since you already have a retainer for 1 of them.

As for the rate I know in the greater Chicagoland area the typical rate is for a 10 hour day and will run from about $600 to about $3000 per day depending on the production house and the equipment needed for that particular shoot. Additional crew is of course extra. Many of the houses around here put it together as a package-all inclusive-sometimes it's better sometimes it's not. A daily of $40.00 for food could work but it's the travel and transportation that really bothers me, plus it seems like this might be more of an unscripted run and gun as opposed to some sort of actual shooting plan. Go here shoot this-go there shoot that take 2 days off then go to the next place. It sounds like he wants EVERYTHING documented and he'll figure it out later which is great EXCEPT I think it'd kill you.
If it were me I would sit with him and put together some sort of schedule that is both acceptable and workable to both of you THEN figure out even if it's feasible to do-remembering that you have other comittements at the same time.

I hope you can put something together it sounds like it could be a great gig once you get some of the details ironed out.

Good Luck,
Don

1st and foremost, you need to draw up a contract with this person, as said earlier, this is a money making business. From what you have posted you are getting certain stipends for things like food, and mileage, but you need a contract which specifically states all of these items that are to be covered while shooting this.

Hotels, mileage, food, tapes, airfare, extra baggage charges for equipment, and so on. These are just a few examples, only you know exactly what you need to do this shoot, so be specific in your conntract.

Also if you are driving from location to location, that is time working, you need to consider that in your total hours on the job, the same goes for air travel, you're on the clock. So don't just count hours shooting, Also if you have to make all the travel arrangements, that counts as time on this project.

So as you can see there are a lot of factors you have to consider when deciding how much to charge.

Is anything over 10 hours a day time and a half?

If you need more help you can email me, and I can help you with more specifics, I have been doing Docs for years.

Good luck,

Dave, you sound like a nice guy so I'm going to help you out. Just send the balance of the $4700 after your %15 finders fee to me and I'll shoot the Rush footage with my V1. It's form factor is probably better for tight backstage conditions. Just tell them you are bringing in an eccentric camera operator from Hawaii that is familiar with their work.

/EndSleazySalesGuy

:)

It all sounds a little fishy, I would proceed with caution. Sports and Discovery? Possible, but this style does not seem to fit. Also, Discovery has famously tough tech specs, they dont want anything but b-roll shot on 1/3" CCDs. There is no way you can meet their broadcast spec just going around shooting without a crew, etc.

I am not questioning you by the way, it is the gig that seems fishy. You would be surprised how many "famous" people have approached me about their life story, most are looking to stroke their own ego and have heard I am a doc guy with some TV ties.

$15K for acquisition on a Discovery doc is chump change, they deal in budget that go from $100k for an hour program to millions. If the gig is legit, there needs to be a director on board who knows the genre and can help guide the story from the start. You should not have to drive, you can fly and rent gear. If you are more than 200 miles between sites, you should fly.




ash =o)

Just because someone is "famous" does not mean they know what they are talking about outside their area of expertise. The person you mention may be just as likely as anyone else to have unrealistic expectations/ideas about how TV shows are created, made and marketed.

The whole situation sounds doubtful to me. DCI has a well-defined structure/process for projects and there should at least be a producer or production manager you can speak with (http://producers.discovery.com/pmd/PMDHandbook.nsf/. A quick call to the network is in order to see if the project you describe is legit. Then you can worry about what to charge.

As far as travel, they said they would pay me 34 cents per mile. That sounds great but that's just gas coverage, not covering anything on my car such as wear and tear.

The food Stipend is $40 per day.

==========

They are cheaping you on both. Go to irs.gov for the mileage rate. (http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=163828,00.html) 2007 rate is $0.485 / mile.


$40 / day for food is one meal. You won't be eating home cooked stuff so it will all be run and gun fast food, delis, etc.

jason

I've closed the deal, it will pay very nicely for a few new cameras I've wanted to get.

Thanks for all the input guys!

Dave, I'm in Charlotte too. Do you need any weekend help? Video is my hobby, so I would like to watch and learn. Free of course, unless you make me pay you :)

I understand the principles in theory, such as lighting and properly mic'd subjects, I know what dollying, crane, and steadycam with body suits are, but haven't actually used them before... well, I have used my own steadycam 2000.

I've spent a lot of time editing a footage that was shot of my own wedding and realize how much it is lacking in audio quality, image quality, lighting interest, angles. I am going to be shooting my cousin's wedding in 2 months (free again), and would like to get experience in lighting setup, audio acquisition, camera control, and just be more comfortable around the subjects. To learn to interact with them and to direct them to what they need to do, especially when subjects are camera shy.

Anyhow, ping me if you have the bandwidth or actually need help.

I don't turn my camera on for less then $250 an hour and it's what I have gotten from the last 17 clients in the last month.
Wait just a minute! Am I missing something here? You have only shot weddings and command $250 an hour? That's $2500 per day for you and a camera?! Then you are shooting EPK for Rush? Finally, you claim to have 17 clients in a month!? That's almost one a day. I'm not saying that any of this is not possible but what I am saying is that it's HIGHLY unlikely. You don't seem to have a clue about much of anything so I don't believe any of it. You sound alot like the typical Craig's List employer. Can you please tell us what some of your resume items are? As far as you closing the deal, I just bet you did.

I totally agree with Ash and Peter and I'll tell you why. First of all, an athlete's life story is NOT the type of content you would see on a Discovery network. I have worked as a camera operator on Discovery Networks (Discovery, Discovery Health, TLC), MTV, FOX, Fine Living, CNN, Fox News Channel, NBC, Weather Channel, etc. shows and know and work with plenty of other shooters with much better resumes than mine. The average day rate for an experienced operator's labor starts at $400 / 10-12 hour day and can be more for more experienced operators and even more as a DP but rarely, if never, $2500 like you get. Do you know what a DP is?

Anyway, I know firsthand what the process is for submitting ideas to these and other networks with some not even accepting outside submissions. That also goes for the established production companies that currently provide content for the networks. I'll assure you that it's a long and comprehensive process and they don't just use some unknown person's video and make a show unless it's some type of very unique and compelling footage that is not able to be reproduced like true reality or a historical event. Depending on the size and needs of the show, usually small crews consisting of a field producer, DP/Camera Op, sound mixer, p.a. (if you're lucky) are usually hired for pro shoots and all of these are hired by a production manager if they are not full time with the production company producing the show. Furthermore, you will certainly NOT be getting $250 per hour if/when working on these shows. That is an absolute joke! I don't know what you're up to but this board is filled with working pros so you're outrageous claims are insulting to those that know the facts. Good luck!

[QUOTE=James Emory;683566]Wait just a minute! Am I missing something here? You have only shot weddings and command $250 an hour? That's $2500 per day for you and a camera?! Then you are shooting EPK for Rush? Finally, you claim to have 17 clients in a month!? That's almost one a day. I'm not saying that any of this is not possible but what I am saying is that it's HIGHLY unlikely. You don't seem to have a clue about much of anything so I don't believe any of it. You sound alot like the typical Craig's List employer. Can you please tell us what some of your resume items are? As far as you closing the deal, I just bet you did.

I totally agree with Ash and Peter and I'll tell you why. First of all, an athlete's life story is NOT the type of content you would see on a Discovery network. I have worked as a camera operator on Discovery Networks (Discovery, Discovery Health, TLC), MTV, FOX, Fine Living, CNN, Fox News Channel, NBC, Weather Channel, etc. shows and know and work with plenty of other shooters with much better resumes than mine. The average day rate for an experienced operator's labor starts at $400 / 10-12 hour day and can be more for more experienced operators and even more as a DP but rarely, if never, $2500 like you get. Do you know what a DP is?
QUOTE]


Given what a friend of mind charges shooting stills for weddings, I can believe it. Mind you, he is higher end of the wedding market, but he's booked up for months in advance and charges a lot more photographing weddings than he did working as a cameraman for major broadcasters.

I'd assume the $250 per hour guy doesn't work a 10 to 12 hour day on a wedding, so if you work out the number of hours actually worked, the final daily rate makes sense. I'd also suspect the $250 includes the kit.

You don't seem to have a clue about much of anything so I don't believe any of it. You sound alot like the typical Craig's List employer.
The average day rate for an experienced operator's labor starts at $400 / 10-12 hour day and can be more for more experienced operators and even more as a DP but rarely, if never, $2500 like you get. Do you know what a DP is?
<b>I don't know what you're up to but this board is filled with working pros so you're outrageous claims are insulting to those that know the facts. </b> Good luck!



Judging from your reply, it sure sounds like your a professional!

Just fyi,

I just filmed Puddle of Mudd in NC for Speed Street.
$500 first hour, $250 hour after, I am not performing any editing.
You sound like your getting screwed, maybe it has something to do with your attitude.

... Mind you, he is higher end of the wedding market, but he's booked up for months in advance and charges a lot more photographing weddings than he did working as a cameraman for major broadcasters.
Yep, that's one reason among others why I wouldn't do weddings. They will pay a still shooter $5K-$10K and want to only pay $1K-$2K for video if you're lucky. We have a thousands invested in gear and then a few days of editing and when the hours worked are divided into the rate, it's just not worth it.


... I'd assume the $250 per hour guy doesn't work a 10 to 12 hour day on a wedding, so if you work out the number of hours actually worked, the final daily rate makes sense. I'd also suspect the $250 includes the kit.
That would make more sense but he wasn't specific.

Judging from your reply, it sure sounds like your a professional!
Yes I am, and that's why I will admit that I was a bit overzealous with my response but what I said about rates and the process of project submissions to networks are facts. I meant every word I said based on the information from your initial post and replies before mine but probably shouldn't have stated it towards you like I did. Just because something is not typical doesn't mean it can't happen. However, it does sound kind of extreme going from shooting weddings to high profile artists and I still have some reservations about your claims but it really doesn't matter what I think.


I just filmed Puddle of Mudd in NC for Speed Street.
$500 first hour, $250 hour after, I am not performing any editing.
You sound like your getting screwed, maybe it has something to do with your attitude.
Yep, me and several thousand other people that work on projects much bigger than mine or yours are definitely getting screwed compared to your rates. You have to admit that it's kind of out of the ordinary for someone like yourself with a high end DV camera that usually shoots weddings to command that rate when others with 25+ years experience at network levels and a few hundred thousand dollars of gear like F900 and Digibeta systems, etc. only get around 1200-1500 for the day. There are no rules about what you can charge and if you have something really special that noone else can offer to get those rates then more power to you. You don't have to justify what you do but as I said in my first reply, I'm not saying it's impossible, but unlikely. If you aren't providing a very unique service to these folks paying your rates, you better hope they never discover what the typical rates are.

You weren't specific so does your rate include all of your gear and labor and do you typically work a full 10-12 hour day? Would you mind mentioning a few items on your resume and how long you have been in the industry? As far as you providing editing, I sure would hate to get that bill.

Judging from your reply, it sure sounds like your a professional!

Just fyi,

I just filmed Puddle of Mudd in NC for Speed Street.
$500 first hour, $250 hour after, I am not performing any editing.
You sound like your getting screwed, maybe it has something to do with your attitude.


If that is indeed true, you wont ever work for them again. I sometimes get emergency gigs where they dont even ASK how much I charge, they just ask for an invoice later. I could charge that much but they would never call back.

$500 is a day rate most places, even high for some markets and DV. I dont know of anyone that would get $1500 for a half day. That is more than DPs are paid on most features. On sub $5M features the DP may make that a WEEK!

I once got $700 for about 2 hours work but I dont go around saying that I make $350 an hour. My goal is to work 200 hours a month and average $50 an hour and that is a dang good living...




ash =o)

If that is indeed true, you wont ever work for them again. I sometimes get emergency gigs where they dont even ASK how much I charge, they just ask for an invoice later. I could charge that much but they would never call back.

$500 is a day rate most places, even high for some markets and DV. I dont know of anyone that would get $1500 for a half day. That is more than DPs are paid on most features. On sub $5M features the DP may make that a WEEK!

I once got $700 for about 2 hours work but I dont go around saying that I make $350 an hour. My goal is to work 200 hours a month and average $50 an hour and that is a dang good living...




ash =o)

Actually, that's what they came to me and I quoted them that price, it was wired into my bank account within 2 hours, pay for a total of 4 hours. $500 here is no way a day rate I can tell you that. They didn't have to use me if they didn't want to, that's for sure.

I called almost every videographer I could when I started in this city, I didn't hear less then $1250 per day rate and thats for 8 hours. Hourly here is different, you need someone for 2 hours, no your not going to find somoene for $100. Maybe $500 or so. You need somoene for 8 hours sure, $1250 is very reasonable here.

Actually, that's what they came to me and I quoted them that price, it was wired into my bank account within 2 hours, pay for a total of 4 hours. $500 here is no way a day rate I can tell you that. They didn't have to use me if they didn't want to, that's for sure.

Well, not only are you the exception to getting premium rates but you get paid that day and within two hours of being hired! Compared to you, all of us are working for minimum wage and having to wait as much as 30+ days to get paid. I'm moving to your town!

Myself and most of the shooters I know including sound guys don't do half days because you can't really sell the other half like you could in LA or New York and most shoots go longer than 4-5 hours anyway. We get a full day rate whether it's one hour or ten.


... You need somoene for 8 hours sure, $1250 is very reasonable here.
Maybe for someone with an extensive resume that shoots high end HD or Digibeta but NOT for DV/HDV and for someone that mostly shoots weddings! I sometimes hire crews myself and there's no way I would pay a shooter with a DV/HDV camera more than $750 ($500 labor and $250 gear) for 10 hours nor would any major production company that I have worked for. You might not want to move anywhere else because you will be in for a real shock outside of your golden city limits. What else have you done besides weddings and EPKs?

I can throw out recent experience. A couple of weeks ago we did some work for Viacom in Ohio where we were shooting some car racing video for our own use. They wanted some in car video and we had the gear. We did 4 cameras on their car and also did some glidecam shots of the outside of the car. They were happy to pay us $1000 for the effort. It took us about an hour to rig and unrig the car x 3 people, 1 person x 20 min to do the glidecam work, and 1 person about 1.5hrs to download sort and put the video on their hard drive. So this included several man hours of time and the cost of use of some expensive equipment. I think it was fair and the people wanting the video seemed happy.

Not meaning to cloud the waters here but this is recent and I think a fair rate for the work we did. The in car stuff was SD but all the external stuff we shot for them was HDV. The rest of the show wasn't shot in HD so I guess it didn't really matter.

You will be able to see the work on July 27th episode of Born Country on CMT. The episode is entitled One Lap of America.

If that is indeed true, you wont ever work for them again. I sometimes get emergency gigs where they dont even ASK how much I charge, they just ask for an invoice later. I could charge that much but they would never call back.

$500 is a day rate most places, even high for some markets and DV. I dont know of anyone that would get $1500 for a half day. That is more than DPs are paid on most features. On sub $5M features the DP may make that a WEEK!

I once got $700 for about 2 hours work but I dont go around saying that I make $350 an hour. My goal is to work 200 hours a month and average $50 an hour and that is a dang good living...




ash =o)

How can you BILL 200 hours a month? Work 200, yes, but for a freelancer to average 50 billable hours per week seems awfully high to me. Out of a 50 hour work week most people are lucky if half that is actual billable time. The rest is calling clients hustling for work, paying bills, maintaining gear, getting out invoices to clients, doing the accounting, upgrading skills & learning new software, etc, etc, etc.

How can you BILL 200 hours a month? Work 200, yes, but for a freelancer to average 50 billable hours per week seems awfully high to me. Out of a 50 hour work week most people are lucky if half that is actual billable time. The rest is calling clients hustling for work, paying bills, maintaining gear, getting out invoices to clients, doing the accounting, upgrading skills & learning new software, etc, etc, etc.

I didnt say I billed for 200 hours, I say I like to average $50 per hour worked. That being said, I have billed for that many several times in the last year. I happen to be in the lucky position of being booked up sometimes months in advance so I have to spend less time managing clients. In fact, I just hired someone to do that for me.



ash =o)

They were happy to pay us $1000 for the effort.
I bet they were because they got a great deal for 4 cameras, glidecam, and a small crew! That was at least worth $2500-$3000 depending on your labor rates.

Actually, that's what they came to me and I quoted them that price, it was wired into my bank account within 2 hours, pay for a total of 4 hours. $500 here is no way a day rate I can tell you that. They didn't have to use me if they didn't want to, that's for sure.

I called almost every videographer I could when I started in this city, I didn't hear less then $1250 per day rate and thats for 8 hours. Hourly here is different, you need someone for 2 hours, no your not going to find somoene for $100. Maybe $500 or so. You need somoene for 8 hours sure, $1250 is very reasonable here.

You are in Charlotte correct? I shoot there a couple times a year and for DV stuff, people are not getting $1250+ a day. I just called a producer I work with who does lots of stuff in Charlotte and he said he pays $1250 a day for a full package in Charlotte which would include 2 people, a 2/3" Broadcast camera, all necessary lights, gear, etc. for a 10 hour day. He also said that was for high end clients like major networks, etc. many who will not accept DV or HDV. For DV and HDV he said he has never had trouble finding someone for $500 a day including their gear.

Best of luck to you Dave, you are either really good or really lucky. Either way, I would not expect those rates to hold up for very long.



ash =o)

I bet they were because they got a great deal for 4 cameras, glidecam, and a small crew! That was at least worth $2500-$3000 depending on your labor rates.

I agree that they got a great deal. For a 3 person crew plus equipment the standard charge is $1200 per half day for the on car rigging. We were already there shooting so they saved a ton on travel and minimum times. You should have seen what they asked for in the beginning, how much they wanted and how little they wanted to pay.

It was great for a bit of extra lunch money. :)

Chris

I didnt say I billed for 200 hours, I say I like to average $50 per hour worked. That being said, I have billed for that many several times in the last year. I happen to be in the lucky position of being booked up sometimes months in advance so I have to spend less time managing clients. In fact, I just hired someone to do that for me.



ash =o)


Billing an average of $50 per hour worked and working 200 hours per month would yield 10 kilobucks per month gross billings. Are you saying you work 200 hours per month @ $50/hour worked or are you saying you gross $50 per billable hour ($500 per 10 hour day) for whatever portion of that 200 hours are billable?

Hey Steve, I like to GROSS $50 per hour worked. To be fair, this includes everything I do and all parts of my business. Some editing, some directing, some DPing, some shooting, some producing and even renting out my gear from time to time.


ash =o)

Hey Steve, I like to GROSS $50 per hour worked. To be fair, this includes everything I do and all parts of my business. Some editing, some directing, some DPing, some shooting, some producing and even renting out my gear from time to time.


ash =o)

But does it include time spent phoning prospective clients, paying the bills, learning new software or reading a new camera's manual, preproduction meetings, psaticipating in DVINFO <G>, etc, etc, etc? And then you need to set aside money to cover vacation time, sick time, etc? Each hour of actual billable time often needs to cover 2 or 3 or 4 hours of working time spent on tasks that aren't billable to a client but still are necessary in order for the business, or your sanity, to survive. When you add it all up and count the total number of hours spent in conducting all business related activity, $50 per billable hour can drop down into the minimum wage level pretty quickly.

I just looked it up and in 2007 I have "worked" an average of 188 hours a month. I do not charge hourly on most jobs, I just bid them. I keep track of my "hours" so that I can adjust my bids accordingly in the future. I have averaged $55 per hour so far this year. I dont count messing around with cameras, learning new techniques, etc. as hours. I have also hired someone to do client management for me but they work off a %. Ultimately, this is a sales business. I had 2 very similar jobs I did in the last couple months, one I made $1500, the other $8500.




ash =o)

Best of luck to you Dave, you are either really good or really lucky. Either way, I would not expect those rates to hold up for very long.
Yep, I totally agree. The next thing you know, he's going to tell us that local news affiliates pay $500-$1000 for spot news and even more for packages! Actually, you could name your price if you have some VERY compelling and exclusive footage. I made $1000 total from three networks for some static shots of a plane crash. It wasn't the crash video as much as the story behind it that made it so in demand. They were calling me for a change! That is very rare to get that rate for news though. You could make thousands if you shot/stalked celebrities!

Steve? Why are you so focused on itemizing all of those things for your time when you should know them anyway? When I get called, all they want to know is how much for labor and for any gear rentals and that's it. If you start piling things on the rate like what you described they will just tell you see ya bye! If someone tried to bill me for all of those I had to do this and that kind of stuff, I would tell them too bad. We are not going to pay you to prepare and learn about things you should already know. Those days are over. You should be paid for your time while working, any gear rentals and expenses to get the project done and that's it! As far as breaking time down into hours, Ash simply divided the flat rate hours in a workday into the rate and got the hourly value. I thought he was clear when he said "I once got $700 for about 2 hours work but I dont go around saying that I make $350 an hour. My goal is to work 200 hours a month and average $50 an hour and that is a dang good living..."

I just looked it up and in 2007 I have "worked" an average of 188 hours a month. I do not charge hourly on most jobs, I just bid them. I keep track of my "hours" so that I can adjust my bids accordingly in the future. I have averaged $55 per hour so far this year. I dont count messing around with cameras, learning new techniques, etc. as hours. I have also hired someone to do client management for me but they work off a %. Ultimately, this is a sales business. I had 2 very similar jobs I did in the last couple months, one I made $1500, the other $8500.

ash =o)

I kinda go by the principle that if I were a regular salaried employee and it's the sort of activity I'd be doing while at the office on company time, it's a work hour whether i'm billing it or not. Another way to correlate it to a regular job in terms of effective hourly rate is look at the gross earnings for the past year and divide by 2000.

Steve? Why are you so focused on itemizing all of those things for your time when you should know them anyway? When I get called, all they want to know is how much for labor and for any gear rentals and that's it. ...

James - I'm not at all suggesting one itemizes those things in billing the clients, God forbid! You never even mention it to them. Those are overheads necessary to keep your business running that have to be taken into account when you set your rates, that's all. I'm just trying to point out that many freelancers look at the hours they bill the client for and forget that there are often many hours of unbillable work time that are also necessary for all the support activities required in order to even be able to *do* one hour of billable work. Everything from sweeping the floor on up, if you walk into a typical office buliding and see an activity being done by a paid employee, when you do it yourself for your own business that same activity also counts as working time and your real hourly earnings are your gross billings divided by the hours spent actually performing the services for which you're billing the client PLUS all of those unbillable but necessary hours. By my reckoning, for a typical freelancer, billing 200 hours per month @ $50 per hour is going to require a total time committment of at least 400 hours per month, about 12 hours per day, day in and day out. Hardly leaves room for a life.

I'm just trying to point out that many freelancers look at the hours they bill the client for and forget that there are often many hours of unbillable work time that are also necessary for all the support activities required in order to even be able to *do* one hour of billable work.
Oh, I wouldn't say we forget it. I think we're all more than aware of it but to obsess over things that can't be changed is a further waste of time. Hey, I just thought of something. The time that we think about how we're doing extra nonbillable work while working is billable too isn't it? Hahaha!

Oh, I wouldn't say we forget it. I think we're all more than aware of it but to obsess over things that can't be changed is a further waste of time. Hey, I just thought of something. The time that we think about how we're doing extra nonbillable work while working is billable too isn't it? Hahaha!

You betcha! And the fees my ISP charges for the connection I use for participating here comes right of my tax returns as a business expense.