This was my first "real" movie.

It has been submitted to 3 film festivals and I'm hoping for the best because I pretty much did everything on my computer.

The only thing I didn't do was the very end shot which I grabbed from a sample someone did but he stated it was public domain, so I felt it looked cool enough to use.

I have actually redone the beginning credits a tad since this release. I added a red-ish fog and made them a bit crisper, but they were essentially the exact same.

Music was all original, shot with a GL2 in normal mode, not frame mode. One part was shot in frame mode, but it was a mistake and was very short and I couldn't go back and re-film it so I used it in frame mode but still converted it to 24p in the end.

Took about 3-4 days to film and I needed 1 reshoot. It was originally written to be longer but time contraints on the main actor made it impossible to get anymore done. It was hard enough to have gotten them to work for free, they just liked my idea enough to go with it. The actress after viewing the film was actually very surprised with the results as if I was some hack or something, haha. In her mind it was going to totally suck....so I guess it didn't in her mind, which is great for me because she's actually worked on alot higher budget stuff....compared to my NO budget movie. Anyways....it's not perfect....but I feel it's enjoyable and I learned alot doing it.

http://www.box.net/shared/static/24302dsan2.wmv

It will allow you to download it.

downloading...start in on the next one :) Get different actors if you can to increase the size of your available cast for future pieces :)

I was lucky rnough to have gotten the main 2 because they were real actors not just friends I put in my movie. The guy already moved to hollywood to pursur a career.

One guy had something to say huh.....wow. More people are interested in trailers I guess.

I still have to watch it, it's in my queue of things to watch...just finished making one website, have one more and 3 editing jobs to do...plus a shoot on saturday for one of the editing jobs. I promise I'll get to it and give you comments/constructive criticism.

Well I thought it was pretty good,you've put a lot of hard work into it and I admire that. It's well shot and well directed.

Well done!

Ben,

Good shooting and editing on your part. I thought it was blocked out well, but I didn't much care for the story line. I thought the actors looked like they were hired from the local gym. I didn't get why the guys shirt was off for the majority of the film and who videotaped the murder.

Was this based on a ture story?

Ill answer those few questions.

Shirt off alot because he was getting out of bed alot.....hench the main storyline. This is without spoliing it for those who have not seen it.

Not everyone wears pajamas to bed, I don't. It's Florida.

His ex-girlfriend told him to get a security system, if you missed out on that, then you weren't paying attention. Which I don't blame you because people on here look more for style and less story. I am guilty of it as well. I only look at work on here to see how people shoot and compare it to my own work.

It's based on a real article I read. Not exactly 100% true, but not 100% false either.

If you weren't interested in the story, then nothing I can say about that, but it interests me. There's no defending that.

I enjoyed it. The main actor was very good in his portrayal, in what looked like excellent physical condition and visually brought a lot to the role.

I felt the cinematography worked very well and everything came together.

I wish you good luck with it as a submission.

Do you really want to know the absolute truth? I watched carefully and found some issues that got in the way of the story.

I'm not saying I can do better, but a few things bothered me.

NUMBER ONE. This is a flaw with many independent productions. Your movie is more than 10% credits. You almost lost me at the opening credits, but I assumed there would be no end credits so I kept going. When one person wears many hats on a production, we don't need to read their name with a new job title half a dozen times. Nearly eliminate the opening credits and have your total time of credits down to less than a minute.

During a very critical scene (after a girl opens the fridge and her boyfriend is standing next to her), I could see the shadow of the camera all over him. Of any time in the movie to have an error, that is the last one to let slide. That was an important moment.

Too many close shots. There were times I couldn't see what was going on because there was no medium shot. I had no idea why he was mad toward the beginning and didn't realize his place was trashed until halfway through the scene. Show the trash so the audience knows why he is acting that way.

Show the security camera being installed or tweaked. You could even add that now without the actors. A cutaway to the camera itself at the right moment will establish it's existence. Yes, it was established in a flashback, but it seems like it needs to be oriented as to when it was installed.

Tone down the music in scenes that don't need tension. It dulls the music when it is on eleven all the time. Bring up the tension only where appropriate. Also, the music is almost totally in the left channel.

It was generally too dark. That's okay for some scenes, but some accent lighting to outline objects would be nice. Use backlight/kickers to illuminate dark scenes a bit so the frame isn't just a bunch of black all the time. It's okay sometimes, but remember that even though night is all dark in the real world - movies need to have things on the screen for the audience to look at.

There is a scene where the couple is in bed that looks like a POV from a third party. I thought someone was in the room with them because of the way the camera moved. Handheld is fine sometimes, but it can imply that it is another entity and not just a passive observer depending on how and when it is used.

These are mostly things you can adjust now in post. Often, it is best to leave things alone and move on to another project, but I would like to see this one fixed. As a first effort, it really isn't bad, but the little things added up.

You used a real person's name in an explanation in the end. You might want to consider adding that this is a "dramatization" or something to cover yourself legally. I don't know about legal stuff, but that sort of stuck out at me.

Just to add to the above comment, I think the one thing that brings the whole thing down is the audio. It's very obviously straight into the on-camera mic, which makes the levels change depending on where the camera is. Also, there is some noticeable echo in some scenes, which is really off-putting. The scene with the phone call had the dialogue changing levels as soon as the scene cut. It should go a bit quieter, but not as quiet as it did, it was too abrupt.

Lighting and cinematography tend to come second to good audio. If you can get a boom mic in there and shoot the scene a couple of times for each actor's dialogue, it will make your production 50 times more professional.

Also, the use of handheld camera was not a good move in my view. The GL2 is a very light camera and in my experience you can only get a decent handheld shot from something heavier like an XL2. The shots are not "heavy" enough, they jump around more than a professional hand held would. I would suggest using a fluid head tripod (or even any tripod) to get a much more professional look. Unless you have a heavier camera (or a stabiliser) I would stear clear of handheld.

But anyway, thats all only in my opinion. It was a fairly decent script. Just a few major things let it down for me. Hope this helps.

Well, I don't see a camera shadow when he's next to her....but whatever on that part. It gets slightly dark when I moved in, but it's not obviously a camera shadow, but more of my shadow.

The audio is mixed excellent in 5.1 and if you are listening to it on anything else it won't sound right.

All vocals are in center.
Ambient effects are all around in some parts.
Music is mainly in the front 2 with some in the rear.

I mixed it and re-mixed it many times and trust me, it cannot be done better.

Personally, if you don't like the style, that's totally cool with me. I am who I am. That's my style.

If you're going to complain about a POV that confused you....certainly it wasn't meant to trick you. I'm not using that to give a generic sense of "someone is in the room". That's your interpretation of it, not mine.

Every movie out there is cameramen behind cameras. We all know it.
I try to give the movie some style because here at this dvinfo.net we are all just filmmakers or wanna be filmmakers. Mostly everyone's got something, some don't.

I don't complain about someone's style unless it looks like "video" 75% of people's stuff on here doesn't exactly look that great, but I can't make that judgement realistically just because I don't agree with his shot selection.

To tell me I need to add a scene of a video system is plain ridiculous. It was mentioned, it's important, but not the main story that's going on. Also, I've gotten insane compliments on how I did the phone scene, so I don't agree. It was also done completely different than what was originally there and was VERY difficult to work on.

Also...don't forget.....1 person did everything, me. I had to learn alot.
No one could help me figure out anything. I was on my own for the first time, and I've been told it's crazy good for how many people were involved.

You don't think that I wanted to go back and change stuff, add stuff....who doesn't.

It's done! Nothing more I can do about it.

I had 3 or 4 days to film.....and had to take the good, with the bad, and for as many movies as I've seen.....I'd say it turned out far better than it should have. I've never, ever worked with strangers before or edited a 20 min film. I've only messed around with skits and small 12 min movies back in the 90's editing with VHS.

Just be realistic when criticising others work.

All I know, is if it wasn't mine.....and I knew it was 1 guy....I'd just say kudos, good job...I'm sure you would have done certain things over, or made changes here and there but you couldn't. Be happy you got it done.

I know some people are going to like or dislike it anyways.....I'd rather just take a , "I didn't like it"

Oh well.....that is my 2 cents.

Bob, first you posted this...
One guy had something to say huh.....wow. More people are interested in trailers I guess.


And when you got a few lengthy critiques you posted this...
I know some people are going to like or dislike it anyways.....I'd rather just take a , "I didn't like it".

I thought is was "OK"

I was going to post more but I'm not sure how you would take it.
Criticism is tough to handle, but it has helped me improve on my work.

There were things that I liked about your work as well.

Cheers,

Mike

Now that I think about it......most people on these boards just say things differently than with my film.

Just for example....if someone's work is just plain terrible, they will be really nice and just give him what he did right, not really what he did wrong so much.

I guess I was just expecting people to say what they liked about it and I myself could just go from there.

If someone's going to complain , say about my music....well..... I did what I like and you know I'm not going to re-score the entire movie, so it's just a waste to say anything about that.

But.... If you said hey, I liked the credits graphics.....or you liked the pace of the flick....then at least I'd take something positive away from it. To rip someone a new one about their movie, it just wastes your time as well as mine. I didn't have a boom guy.....so no....I couldn't use a boom pole.... Of course I wanted too. I know ya get my drift now. The last post was right on the money. Thought it was ok. Some have not liked the story and liked the filming.... That's fine too. I know the story wasn't fleshed out enough, but I just had no choice. The actor left the state and never came back.

Bob, it sounds like all you want to hear is compliments?

If that's the case, run it by your family and I'm sure you will get plenty.

I don't think anyone here has it out for you, you also don't HAVE to agree with everything said.

That said, you should take some of the negative comments and try to improve on them so those things can't be said about your next movie.

The sound was off in spots, especially the voices. I know you worked hard on the mix, but there is room for improvement next time.

My work quite frankly is beneath yours, but I still listen to the criticisms and try to get better with every one.

Cheers,

Mike

Well, I don't see a camera shadow when he's next to her....but whatever on that part. It gets slightly dark when I moved in, but it's not obviously a camera shadow, but more of my shadow.

*Okay, whatever the source of the shadow, it's there. This is something that can easily be fixed by cutting earlier or choosing a different take. It's hard to see all of these things while on set, especially if you don't have a second set of eyes watching the video. You just have to accept that these things happen and work around them.

The audio is mixed excellent in 5.1 and if you are listening to it on anything else it won't sound right.

*I used headphones and vocals were off to one side. Perhaps the conversion to a downloadable format didn't put the speech in the center.

Personally, if you don't like the style, that's totally cool with me. I am who I am. That's my style.

*I didn't say I didn't like your style. Heck, at least you have a style. It may need to be tweaked so it works better across viewing environments and that is all I mentioned (like the video being too dark sometimes).

If you're going to complain about a POV that confused you....certainly it wasn't meant to trick you. I'm not using that to give a generic sense of "someone is in the room". That's your interpretation of it, not mine.

*My interpretation is that of an audience. It is hard to retain objectivity when editing, so I gave you my point of view so you can think about making a simple edit to get the effect on the audience you wanted.

To tell me I need to add a scene of a video system is plain ridiculous.

*I disagree. The video system is set up as being very important in your opening flashback and it's existence in the body of the movie is not pointless.

Also...don't forget.....1 person did everything, me. I had to learn alot.
No one could help me figure out anything. I was on my own for the first time, and I've been told it's crazy good for how many people were involved.

*I don't disagree that you learned a lot. Are you done learning? I know I don't think I can ever know too much about movie production. How will you continue to learn? You say that nobody could help you figure anything out. Who are we on this forum?

You don't think that I wanted to go back and change stuff, add stuff....who doesn't. It's done! Nothing more I can do about it.

*Depending on how you stored your project, there are a few tweaks that could make a real difference. Like I said, it's usually best to go on and you should, but I think a few tweaks would make this movie more likely to do well at film festivals. I'm not talking about doing re-shoots.

Just be realistic when criticising others work.

All I know, is if it wasn't mine.....and I knew it was 1 guy....I'd just say kudos, good job...I'm sure you would have done certain things over, or made changes here and there but you couldn't. Be happy you got it done.

*As strangers and people with some experience like yours, we know exactly what happens in a shoot like this and don't feel a need to spare your feelings like a family member. Your family and friends can't give you tips how to get improvement for this and your future works. We have all been there and know the next steps to take.

I know some people are going to like or dislike it anyways.....I'd rather just take a , "I didn't like it"

*Then you will learn nothing. I never bother to just say "yay" or "nay". Why bother? How can I be of any help to someone if I don't speak up? Do you want to have the same problems on your next shoot? I figured that you want as much knowledge as possible from an objective point of view so you can continue with the learning process and not make the same mistakes twice.

I never said, "I hated it" because I didn't. There were a few technical issues that got in the way while viewing and I know some of them can still be fixed. Keep working on starting your next project and learn from this one. I haven't shown my work on this site because I know exactly what problems I had and don't feel the need for it yet. I have friends locally that have experience who help me out. If you don't have that, we are here.

I think this thread deserves some explanation. I think everyone here knows the amazing amount of work it takes for every minute of a movie. There are so many factors to consider and so many jobs that it's amazing that one person can pull it off at all. We all know this and also know that our work will not always be appreciated.

This forum gives movie makers a source of knowledge that can't be easily found in most people's daily lives. Not everyone is going to have an experienced editor looking over their shoulder to help tweak everything. That is where this sort of "peer review" can be very helpful. It is very difficult to maintain objectivity after you spend a hundred hours cutting your movie. There are things like timing that you will get wrong because you have lost objectivity. As an editor, you can never understand what it is like for someone to see your work for the first time. That requires an outside observer that can tell you what doesn't work without walking on eggshells around your feelings.

My previous post are exactly what I would say if I was in the editing bay helping a friend on his final edit. I would sit there and make him change everything that can be changed and he wouldn't be mad at me or feel insulted. We would just get the job done and emotions would never be an issue. Everyone, don't take things so seriously. We are here to help.

Well, at least you cared enough to explain yourself....that's cool.

Sometimes things can sound worse than they are....ya know. I don't know exactly what you are thinking while you write things, as you don't know what it took for me just to get what came out in the end.

I feel more lucky to have pieced together something that at least makes a small movie.

Heck....when I wrote it...it was much, much longer, with much more drama, people, and places. After shooting some of it prior to the scenes in the movie, I realized I'm too much of a perfectionist to make it look like total crap, so I did what you saw in the movie compared to a crap load of tripod shots and putting myself in the movie as another character.

The problem with why I got a bit defensive is because from what I set out to do, and what I ended up with, I pretty much made a masterpiece......just take my word for it.

We are talking about no rehearsals......no nothing....and I feel it's magical how things ended up. It should have been a disaster honestly.
It even 50% of people who watch it , can get thru it and be slightly interested in it.....that's more than enough satisfaction I guess. I'll be honest though....I expected maybe a few people to be slightly amazed at the project.... Just for the fact that I did everything. And no one really said dang...or anything. A bit of a letdown....

I've seen short films by some people that have had wow's and my girlfriend, who is actually very picky at judging films, thought I was better. She was critical on my film, but only because she pays more attention to the background, as like a set designer would.

Give me like a 2 week shoot on the same project and sure....things would turn out far better....

Anyways.....I've spilled the beans, bared my soul..... and I'm just going to let it all go.

I don't have the camera anymore anyways. So if I ever get to direct again.....and I actually get dedicated people, maybe I'll have a bit more time to do more of the actual shooting.

Oh....yes....about the audio.

It's really, really meant for 5.1. I've had headphones on during the movie, and I don't know why, but it just doesn't come out the same.

I mixed it in Vegas 5 and some sounds are strictly panned in real time with the action on the screen. It mainly happened when he gets out of bed and you hear like outside ambience. That pans all around....probably sounds like crap on headphones.

Anyways..... put it on disc and watch it on someone's 5.1 system if you can. I'd say it makes the film about 50% better. Seriously. Just sounds more professional. I'm not being biased either because I've tested it to hear what others might be hearing on stereo systems and I didn't want to make a seperate mix, sorry.

My suggestion would be to take this and get connected with other people in your area that make movies. There are few people that can do all the jobs even adequately, so you certainly will have abilities people will value. I have been working on other people's projects and focusing on camera and lighting. Those things are often what is lacking and are also skills most useful to other people that want to shoot their story.

You may have noticed that getting good shots on the first few tries makes everything easier later. Also, post-production is cheap if you do it all yourself, but you must make sure your on-set capabilities are honed to avoid wasting the time of the whole crew. Practice these skills on other people's works and have fun along the way. Once I got to a point that I'm happy with those abilities, I started out on my own first big project that is almost ready to start shooting.

You are actually ahead of me in that you made your own first film from start to finish and that's something to be proud of. Don't feel bad if people don't recognize your accomplishment on your first try. Just think how good your future productions will be with the knowledge you gained on this project.

I think what you have to keep in mind is that people are being nit picky about everything for your benefit. There are a lot of things right with what you did. Some of your shots look amazing, but there are a lot of other things that you could have done better, and we tend to group all the good things into, overall the style was good, as opposed to lots of bullet point items for the bad things.

Personally I would say you did a great job, but you can tell you had a limited schedule because there is a lot of inconsistency. You have some amazing shots and then some that are poorly lit. You need someone dedicated to sound to get better source stuff to work with. As everyone says, you always want to start with the best source video to work with, the same goes for audio.

I agree with the constraints you had it turned out great, but movies don't win awards for looking good for being shot in a certain time period unless it's a 48 hour film contest. You got to have a thick skin to do what we do since our goal is to have a bunch of people see our product, so just realize nobody is doing it to put you down, just to make you better and give you ideas on what you can improve on.

YouTube - alphazoom's Channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/alphazoom)

Well....it's been awhile...so long in fact, I googled my name to find this post.

This thread will be like coming back from the dead.

I've done a few trailers...fanmade of course to keep up on my editing skills. I also have put up songs of mine that didn't make it into my film...well...because I believe the hard drive that has the movie on was on an external drive and it's power supply died. If I could go back and remix the audio, I would...for the simple fact taht I agree...there's too much music. I honestly felt I would never direct again , not because of not having the drive or ability, but simply because it's just too hard to get people together and do things correctly...especially not having a budget. I am not hanging out with high schoolers anymore...it's serious. If it doesn't come out well...it doesn't come out well...there's no second chances.

Daniel Messier my lead has moved to LA and is now on Cinemax. Go figure...
Amber has moved to NY and is taking more acting lessons and doing some modelling.

Me....sitting at home composing more music but not working or making any money.... Life sucks...but at least I'm not giving in to the man.

I do have a song up at CD baby. Support your starving artist if you will.

Bob Benkosky | Passing Strangers | CD Baby (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/BobBenkosky1)

Life sucks all around these days, but one can never give up hope. I have passion for film making, need to know too many things and I am trying hard for the little time I have since I am working that is very good these days. I understand what you mean about people not doing what you need when there is no budget. Never give up you are good.

Wow, I'm not going to even watch it just for fear of having a negative opinion :)

Don't ever try to get famous, critics aren't going to be as nice or as helpful as what you've recieved here, hell I appreciate the comments critisim I get it helps me grow as a film maker.