Hi,
Just like to know did anyone returned or sold their HC7 to get a HV20 instead as i heard many comments that the hhv20 beats hc7 hand down..

ys

I sold my HC-1 for a CANON HV-10. They are both great cameras but I needed a smaller camera for travel. Then HV-10 is by far a sharper image.

Have decided finally yo get a HC7, HV20 cannot change white balance during recording and its no for me..

Hi Yow -
I don't think you'll be dissapointed. The 7 is a nice little package once you work with it a bit. The HV20 is tough competition no doubt, and might even sneak into my collection right along with my Sonys one of these days - if the 20 drops value as fast as the 10 did, I'll pick one up... already got a great deal on a HC7, no doubt because of the "competition" - so I'll cheer BOTH cameras on and hope their successors "fix" the few omissions or flaws! What a great time to be stuck with such hard choices!!

DB>)

just gotten a HC7E yesterday....
I owened a FX1E before and have to say that the hc7 has resolves much more details. the noise pattern of both cameras are really different.
Lowlight wise fx1e is slightly better but hc7 has better dynamic range making the white less overexpose...
I will be getting the HG0737 lens today and do further test.

But i really love how easy it is to switch the manual control buttons but just pressing the manual button and i can switch between manual shutter, exposure and so on. if you want to see what gain you are at just do a playback and all the information is there.

Hi,
Just like to know did anyone returned or sold their HC7 to get a HV20 instead as i heard many comments that the hhv20 beats hc7 hand down..

ys


Yes, I did exactly that. Now Im waiting on my Brevis...

To be honest, I'm thinking of returning the HV20 for the HC7.

The HV20 has a great picture quality.... no doubt about that. And of course the 24p. But I'm shaking my head at everything else! The build quality is just not that great, you can't shift white balance on the fly, there is no record indicator light on the front, you can't adjust the color/sharpness strength in the auto mode.... every day that goes on, I'm finding more about this cam that I just plain DON'T like. I'm beginning to think that the small hit I will take in picture quality may just be worth it.

just got my HC7,
why i love it..
1. great sharpness and colour especially in good light. when i say good light it starts from 18watt toilet bulb in my flat small toilet. or even shopping centre lightings. low noise.

2. It has the HD wide angle lens convertor by sony. great quality and not too expensive

3. you can easily change manual shutter, exposure and others but simply holding on to the MANUAL buttons.

4. It can change white balance on the fly.

5. It has solid build quality.. really solid.

6. Lastly It flies easily and fantastically on my steadicam merlin!

see footage at http://weddingmtv.multiply.com/video/item/22

by the way video noise is not too much a big deal now with so many post-processing softwares like neatvideo and so on.

Hi Yow,

could you say me price you payed there in Singapore for HC7 ( PAL type
I guess ) ?

Many thanks
ES

I have so many pluses about the HC7. The low light quality is awesome, the picture is accurate and smooth, and the features and settings are endless. Plus it is a comfortable camera to hold, get it you won't regret it.

I'm looking at buying either the HV20 or HC7. I've been partial to Canon over the years but I'm also interested in the HC7. After handling both of these cameras, I agree the Sony feels more solid than the Canon. The HV20 and controls have a flimsy feel to it that doesn't give me confidence it's going to hold up for several years.

The more I read about the HV20 it seems like people are having a few issues with it, such as possibly with OIS in 24p. I don't need 24p so I'm more concerned with having a solid camera with great audio (external mic) and video. And a few users here have experienced noise problems with the Rode Videomic, which is the mic I have. I'm not finding many threads on problems or dissatisfaction with the HC7. I also like that the HC7 can substitute for my still camera in most situations.

After reading as much as I can find about these two cameras I'm still uncertain which one is best for my needs.

...I don't need 24p

You answered your own question. If you do not need native 24P and you feel more comfortable with the Sony, why not get it?

Hi David -
Unless you need 24P (I've done it in post with what I thought were good results... not sure where or if there's a flaw in letting Vegas do it...) or do a lot of really low light shooting, the HC7 is a better choice. The HV20 will pull a better picture when the lights are very low (better color in low light conditions, and seems to be able to "find" more light somehow), but if I had to choose one, it would be the HC7. Build quality is night and day between these two.

No matter how great the picture quality is, the HV20 still feels like a toy. I still can't get it to feel right in my hand compared to the HC7 - doesn't matter much since I usually use my brackets, but I hate to handhold this cam - I think that adds to the OIS issue since it doesn't seem to settle in to the grip very well, at least for me.

I do feel like the Canon OIS isn't as good as the Sony, especially if you have to zoom in at all. Just seems bouncier...

While I think I've got the HV20 color looking about right, the HC7 with xvcolor on seems to get better and more accurate colors "out of the box" - the HV20 took some fiddling, and adjustment is sort of picking through presets until one seems "right".

As far as stills, I think the HC7 is again a better bet for you - haven't had the time to A/B the two cams in detail, but the higher res can't hurt!

Keep in mind the HC7 may cost a bit more to "accessorize", but at least on Ebay the cost for the camera itself isn't too much different - $75-100, nominal when you consider the overall quality. I had problems with some MiniSD cards on the Canon, never had an issue with a Memory stick pro duo...

All that said, the Canon is great picture quality at a budget price - it's opening up the HDV market and competition is good. But you can sure see where they had to do things to bring the price in where they did - so if that bugs you the Sony is a better choice.

The only other consideration is that most control of the Sony is via touchscreen - some like it (I do), others hate it. The Canon menu/joystick isn't bad.
DB>)

Thanks guys. I almost pulled the trigger last night on the Canon HV20. The prices on it seem to be dropping daily. But, I emptied my shopping cart at the last minute. Even at a great price, I still have reservations about that camera.

In a nutshell, I like the Sony HC7's build quality. It's not prosumer grade, but it's a lot closer to it than the HV20s quality. It makes me wonder what else under the hood on the Canon is compromised. And like I mentioned earlier, I definitely like the HC7's higher photo resolution. I really get tired of playing a two camera hat dance for family events.

I don't care for touch screens, but I can get used to it. Some have said the lack of focus assist on the HC7 makes it very difficult to manual focus while shooting in HD. And I guess the HC7's manual focus control is even worse than the HV20s. But I imagine is just a matter of opinion and what you can get used to.

As for the lack of 24p, it appears the HV20's 24p doesn't work well unless on a stabilized or tripod mount because of the "wobble". Most of my shooting is handheld so this is a huge concern for me if I were to shoot in 24p. Some HV20 owners said they noticed the wobble even in interlaced mode.

I've decided to wait several weeks and take a look again at the HC7's prices. Even with all the price activity on the HV20, the Sony's price seems to not have had much reduction. I'm hoping with all the price competition on the HV20 the market will force a reduction on the HC7's price.

In a nutshell, I like the Sony HC7's build quality. It's not prosumer grade, but it's a lot closer to it than the HV20s quality. It makes me wonder what else under the hood on the Canon is compromised.

The answer: The power supply.

The HV20 has the exact same power supply inside as ALL Canon consumer camcorders. And trust me, my Optura 20 broke 4-5 times in the past 3 years because of overcharging the battery.

I'm a long time Sony devotee. I bought the HV20 because it was an inexpensive entree into 24p, which I wanted to explore. My "jury" is still out on that. In addition, the camera has its little quirks-- different from ones than in the Sony cameras, but it seems every camera at any level under $10k, let alone $1 K, has issues you have to deal with. That is the nature of these beasts. You give and take.

So putting that aside, it is clear to me that the Canon HV20 was designed for the consumer, period. It is only those of us who want to transform it into more that are debating it merits. And it has a lot of merit. The camera is easily mastered in terms of manual adjustment, locking exposure. It does seem a bit touchy in terms of the image stabilizer, and I have turned it off for most applications. The instant autofocus actually works fantastic, in my opinion. And the HV20 marries well with my Letus35a.

In the end, you are looking at a camera that no one should consider as a long term answer in terms of professional video production. As a tool for the serious ameteur trying to put together a film or two or three in the next year, I think it is a fantastic opportunity, and that where I am going with it.

At a $1000.00, it has to be considered the "saturday night" special of HDV cameras, and to consider it or the the more expensive HC5 or 7 as the answer to your future professional HDV producti0n needs is, I think, a bit of a stretch...

Hi David -

re autofocus - I've seen the Canon 'hunt' once in a while, particularly zoomed - that's a "feature" of ALL autofocus methinks. The control wheel on the Canon is a bit better than the Sony - but I'd rather not use either "wheel" for focusing. IF a manual focus ring is on your "hot list", NEITHER of these cams will make you happy, but...

Here's where the Sony works for me - the spot focus function works quite well for "faking" rack focus - I have that on the first screen of my p-menu so it's fast access (my p-menu only has 2 screens, so it's fast for anything I need - I LIKE the customizable touchscreen menu). Of course with the spot focus you're relying on the cameras "focus assist" to focus on a specific spot on your screen, but it does that pretty well.

The other option that you have on the Sony is a LANC that can control focus. Most are expensive, BUT... there's a $30 one from Giottos that is not too big, straps to my bracket rig, and while it's not as tactile as the Sony LANC controller, it's usable AND it includes manual focus! Bottom line is it's not as tactile or responsive as having a pair of rings on a lens barrel like an FX1/Z1 or FX7/V1, but it WORKS on a camera 1/4 (?) the size and weight, and far more portable!

The best camera for the job is the camera you have WITH you, and I can easily drag around an HC7 with selected accessories in a small camera bag, or a pair of HC7's and an HV20 with all the accessories I usually need in a hard case that is not even as big or heavy as my Z1... and the whole "multi-angle" rig cost less... which camera is "best"?

While a "big" camera may have more features, the small form factor camera, when you know how to use it, can be a far more effective "acquisition device" - that's why the HV20 at under 1K has everyone so excited. The HC7 got panned, but it's a pretty exciting camera too, all things considered!

DB>)

...it is clear to me that the Canon HV20 was designed for the consumer, period.

Hi Chris -

While I agree on the "consumer" target market, it's a "high end" consumer to be sure - there are lots of camcorders for WAY less money (OK, not with HD...) with equal or better build quality. I think the negativity comes from "I paid HOW MUCH for this plastic-y thing??"...

1K is a lot to drop on a video camera (8-900 discounted), and to have it in a relatively cheezy plastic shell is sort of annoying... The editing hoops for 24P make that point "marketing" for most consumers - only a pro will spend the extra effort or time or money to be able to work with that "feature". I'd say Canon threw that extra "feature" on there to pull in EXACTLY the guys who are all over this camera - pros who want a small cam for a deck, and a portable high quality camera and don't want to lug an A/G/H1 around on vacation, but gag when forced to watch video from the average SD handycam... (all hands in room go up)

About that plastic case - after putting headphones on both cameras, I've got to say the Canon shell is far more microphonic. Camera noise was more noticeable from the internal mics, and there was an odd reverb/echo "quality" that actually shocked me - handling noise was objectionable if handheld (brackets helped), and while the audio was more crisp on the highs, probably due to the preamp design, it was NOT up to par in my book - I've got to review some footage I shot with both cameras to compare, but an external mic seems like almost a necessity with the HV20 - the mics in the 7 are passable as is, and adding an HGZ1 sounded pretty good, and is still compact.

I understand Canon had to "cut corners" to meet a price point, that's reality, and for what it does, it ain't bad, but also reality is I only paid about $50 more for my HC7's (not counting accessories) - for the $50, I feel like I got something QUALITY instead of a "toy" (they're ALL toys, right <wink>?).

I think what strikes me is that by the time you add up all the "negatives" (additional external mics, shaky OIS, no LANC), and figure out what it will cost to bring the HV20 up to the HC7 where possible, the ONLY "win" is PQ and maybe low light performance (which is PQ...).

For the average consumer who thinks CA means "California", EITHER cam will deliver jaw dropping video, only when one gets extremely picky can one decide which PQ is "better" and then its "opinion". I jump on color discrepancies, someone else might be more focused on sharpening, somebody else might be finicky about low light... ad nauseam. Bottom line, pick one, be happy.

You ARE getting what you pay for, and the price point of the Canon is SWEET and dropping, so you can't COMPLAIN, but if you are inclined to be at all picky on build quality, the HV20 is going to bug you... possibly a lot.

I'm happy with the HV20 since it keeps company with the HC7 in my kit, and suits a purpose... but if I had to choose one, the HC7 would stay and the 20 would go, and that would be a quick decision.

Reminds me of another industry I'm in where "customizing" a cheap(er) product is common so you can get the "features" of a higher end product... when you start adding all the costs to bring the cheaper one up to comparable specs, you end up spending the same or more... economics is what it is...

DB>)

Thanks DB for the great post regarding the HC20 and HV7 and the focus explanation. I was surprised to hear you say the HC7 was panned because I have yet to find any significant complaints or negative reviews about it. I know CCI wasn't wild about it and gave the HV20 top honors, but not without bringing to attention the faults of both cameras. It seems like specmanship and pricing caused most of the attention to be on the HV20.

I also think you nailed it with your comment that user's looks for and focus on a specific attributes that may be important to their needs. I just read an editorial in DV that commented on this very thing but but as related to video camera reviewers and test labs. Everyone comes from a slightly different point of view and what they consider important. I guess that's just human nature.

As I mentioned earlier, I've been heavily partial to Canon's still and camcorders. In fact, I dislike some of Sony's proprietary implementations. But for what's important to me and given that we really only have 2 HD DV consumer cameras to choose from, I think the Sony is the best for me. I'm not a professional and don't intend to replace my camcorder every time a new model comes about. Just to give you an idea, I'm still using my Canon Elura that I purchased at the end of 1998. Another article in DV called the original Elura "one of the best little cameras ever made." So I'm spoiled and have high expectations for a consumer camera.