Ok, I've gotten myself in the middle of a finger-pointing game between Adobe and Canon and I would like some help.

Myself (and at least one other, Bill Ritter) can't get Adobe Premiere Pro 2.0 to output 1080i timelines back to tape longer than around 5 minutes. The A1 just stops recording. PP2.0 does not crash (you can cancel the export). The video that is exported looks fine. The hang
does not occur at the exact same spot each time.

Adobe says - we've heard of this. No work-around. It's a problem with the A1.

Canon says - we've never heard of this, must be your camera, please send it in. Ugh.

So -----
Has anyone with an A1 and PP2.0 been able to export a 1080i timeline >6 minutes to tape?

If you have access to this set-up and could do an experiment, that would really help.

Thanks.

I followed the manual carefully with the A1 and as referenced was unable to export to tape on any of my HD projects. I tried different lengths and had the same problem - PP2 renders, then starts the camcorder, which begins taping and then the camcorder quits. PP2 continues as if it is exporting.

Anyone with ** any editing system ** that can export back to tape, please let us know. In one respect I have decided this is not critical, as I can export to mpg2 at a high rate and record the file to Blu-ray for about the same price per hour, albeit a little more compressed.

Thanks,

Bill in Ohio

Larry,

I tried this with an A1 and HV10. Same problem as you with both cameras. You can find details in my response to Bill's thread in the HV10/HV20 forum. Both my cameras say something like 'check the DV/HDV connection'. Premiere continues outputting the stream when the camera stops and I found that I could hit stop and then record on the camera and get it to start recording again for 5-6 minutes before it stops recording again. The connection and cable have not been a problem while capturing, so I don't really think it is a bad cable or connection, especially when you report the same thing.

I'm from the PAL land and I've just managed to export almost 7 min. footage (25f) with no problem at all.

Are you guys trying to export 24f content? According to Premiere's Support Center, exporting 24F to tape is not supported.

http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/detail.jsp?ftpID=3408

My export was 1080 60i.

Also the presets for 24f and 25f for PP2 are available as a down load from adobe now. That is for capture of course.

Canon Tech support told me he talked to somone else yesterday about this problem and they have sent info off to higher up the tech chain. He said check for info on their support page -- probaby not a good answer for awhile I would guess.

I asked him to bug them for how they checked that it exported to tape? A utility? Which NLE did they use?

Thanks,

Bill in Ohio

Adam -

I am trying 1080i.

Kuba -

Try something a little longer than 7 min. That seems about the limit that I can do. See if you can go 10-15. Thanks

Larry -

On the Adobe site they have a hardware compatibility page. They don't list the A1 or HV10, but do list the L-H1, Canon's first HD camera. They claim partial support, not full support, with this note "Export to tape is not supported with this camera". It appears that Premiere works with other HD cameras besides Canon and that Canon works with other editors besides Premiere. Its just the combination of Canon-Premiere that seems to have the problem. I would like to see a confirmation from someone using a Canon HD camera and another NLE (Final Cut, Vegas, Avid, etc) that can successfully export to tape.

Someone asked if they can export with "any editing system" I use Edius and export easily for a full hour to tape with a utility supplied with Edius called

MPEG TS Writer

I render my timeline to an m2t file and then open this file in MPEG TS Writer and hit the export button. I have exported nearly one hour flawlessly back to the camera with no problem. I know it's not Premiere but someone asked for "any editing system"

I have suspected that this is an Adobe issue, which is why I am very hesitant to send the camera to Canon per their Tech Support's request. The more data I get, the more I put the responsibility with Adobe. You'd think both companies would want to get this fixed, it isn't like Premiere or the A1 are "fringe" products!!!!!!!!!!

I, also, am trying to write 1080 60i timelines. The message that flashes on the LCD is exactly what Lloyd is seeing.

I am also writing 1080 60i. I don't mess around with that 24f/p stuff. For what I do (event work) 1080 60i is great. I don't understand the 24p cinema stuff that well and whenever I have played with it the stuttery look to the playback is not for me. I haven't figured out how to get that smooth.

Anyway, 1080 60i exports great with my application.

Just a thought. I didn't need it so I never installed it but would some of the software that came with the camera export an m2t file. Does it have to be exported from Adobe. Couldn't you just render the timeline to an m2t file and then export through a 3rd party app till Adobe gets if figured out. There has to be an app out there that will export the file.

Lloyd,

I did another test. This time I exported 11 min. footage, again with no problem at all.

Lloyd,

I did another test. This time I exported 11 min. footage, again with no problem at all.

Thanks for the data Kuba.

We're all having the issue with 1080 60i. Any way you could try that?

Unfortunately (or maybe I should say fortunately) I only have the PAL model of Canon XH A1. Sorry that I can't help.

Here's the latest from Adobe:

Hello Larry,
Thank you for contacting Adobe® Web Support for assistance with Adobe
Premiere Pro 2.0®
I understand that you are seeing other Premiere Pro users experiencing
the same export to tape issue with the Canon XH-A1®, and one user
reporting they were able to export from Canopus Edius®.
As indicated previously, this is an issue we are aware of with this
camera that occurs with other software besides Premiere Pro. When we
have seen this issue, it has happened with every editing
package that was tried. Export to tape from this camera is not supported
with this camera from Premiere Pro, and we would recommend contacting
Canon for assistance.
Kind regards,
Leland B.
Adobe Web Support

LOL, that's a funny and inaccurate response. I can export to my camera using Vegas without a hitch. I never use Premiere for that task.

LOL, that's a funny and inaccurate response. I can export to my camera using Vegas without a hitch. I never use Premiere for that task.

NTSC camera exporting 1080 60i?

Moved from Canon XH to World Premiere.

Hmmm, not sure about 60i material. Mine has all been 24f and Vegas sends it back to tape with no problems. I'll have to try 60i

Hmmm, not sure about 60i material. Mine has all been 24f and Vegas sends it back to tape with no problems. I'll have to try 60i

Steven -

That would be great data. Thanks.

AND . . . anyone else having *success* exporting NTSC 1080 60i footage longer than about 6 minutes back to tape using s/w other than Premiere Pro 2.0 - please chime in!

Man I HATE this!



CANON SAYS:

From what you have described, if you are able to get it to work for
short segments then there is no reason related to the camera that would
cause a problem over longer times. We believe the issue is with your
software.

Once the camcorder has detected by your firewire port, the camcorder is
waiting for a signal from the video editing software to begin the
transfer of footage. The remainder of the transfer process is
controlled by that software.

We suggest testing the camcorder with another software application.

We hope this information is helpful to you. Please let us know if we
can be of any further assistance with your XH A1.

Thank you for choosing Canon.

Sincerely,

Chris
Technical Support Representative
***********************************************

ADOBE SAYS:

Hello Larry,
Thank you for contacting Adobe® Web Support for assistance with Adobe
Premiere Pro 2.0®
I understand that you are seeing other Premiere Pro users experiencing
the same export to tape issue with the Canon XH-A1®, and one user
reporting they were able to export from Canopus Edius®.
As indicated previously, this is an issue we are aware of with this
camera that occurs with other software besides Premiere Pro. When we
have seen this issue, it has happened with every editing
package that was tried. Export to tape from this camera is not supported
with this camera from Premiere Pro, and we would recommend contacting
Canon for assistance.
Kind regards,
Leland B.
Adobe Web Support

Sounds like a case of "He said, She said" to me.

Couple of quick thoughts......I get it to export fine in 1080 60i with a utility that comes with Canopus Edius NLE as I mentioned above. I gotta think there is another 3rd party type of utility out there for capture and playback to cam of an m2t file.

You said you have exported to tape from the PPro 2.0 timeline and the process will first render the needed files and then start the export process. Have you tried just creating a m2t master file, insert in another project and try exporting that without having to go through that whole preparation rendering/encode to get it ready. Maybe it's getting lost looking for the render files on your hard drive and that causes a hiccup. Just an idea. I don't use PPro so I don't know the workflow very well in the NLE. Having come from a customer support background I try and troubleshoot problems with every trick I can think of and narrow down the possibilities. This would be a test I would try out.

Now another test you could try out is to download a trial copy of Edius from the Canopus website. Export your project to an m2t file and use the Canopus Utility called MPEG TS Writer to export to camera. If it works all the way through in the Canopus Utility when it wouldn't in PPro then you know the camera is not to blame and you can tell Adobe you have run this test with other software yourself. The trial download is fully functional for 30 days if you want to try it out. Again....eliminate every possibility to find the solution. Sometimes companies will point the finger at the other guy till you prove to them it is their fault.

Just a few ideas I had.

Sorry to butt into the thread, but I just had a burning question about something. I'm about to be using the XH-A1 for a pretty big project which is going to be shot in regular DV mode. Are there any issues exporting standard DV to the XH-A1 from Premiere Pro 2.0? Reading this thread got me worried and I haven't had a chance to try exporting anything in either mode to the camera yet.

I'll check that out, but I would not expect an issue. Even if there was, any other DV camcorder would be able to take the export as they are all the same format. The HD camcorders come in various flavors - 720, 1080x1440 1080x1960.

I will try mine out on a DV export soon.

Bill in Ohio

I had no luck with DV export either. I will try some other settings.

I did however do a HDV to HDV using a firewire cable to export between my two Canon XH A1 camcorders without any problem. That worked fine, as soon as I hit play on one it showed up on the other. Then I hit record and it began recording. I let it run about 9 min then checked that it recorded OK.

Bill in Ohio

I went back to the Adobe site and checked their camcorder support page. It says no export to tape for Canon XL H1 -- so we are out of luck on both of these. However, I figured out that if I were to archive to DVD the matrox.avi files that you can create. It would only take about 3-4 DVDs at $.50 each or $1.50 - 2.00 per hour to archive each hour -- not elegant, but the video would load back on faster from DVD if you need it sometime later. Also the DVDs should be more archivable than tape.

I still like having a tape, but good HD tape is running at least $7/hour. So financially you would be ahead doing DVDs.

Rationalization complete!

Bill in Ohio

Export between Canon GL-2 and Canon XH A1 of DV 4:3 worked fine. So the firewire works to export to the XH A1. As I earlier posted XH A1 to XH A1 also works fine with HD material. I did not try SD.

Bill in Ohio

Well I discovered the reason I could not export to tape from PP2 to Canon XH A1 --

Project > Project settings > General settings > Playback settings >1394 output tabbed page > there is a check box to enable 1394 export to tape. I was able to export widescreen DV back to the A1.

Bill in Ohio

Previous post -- that is export to DV only. There is no 1394 enable button in my HD projects. I still can't export more than 4.5 min of HDV.

Bill in Ohio