After having started this thread a month ago, I wasn't sure where it was going. But after about of month of use, while there are a few gripes about the camera, overall, I think it is a super value. For anyone wanting to get into HDV, ameteur film making, or just producing nice looking film, this camera has a lot to offer in its little package. The following are issues I will be working on in the next month take it even further:

1. 24p: I have been shooting mostly 24p in the last 3 weeks. Two issues arise. First is editor related, ie., how to remove pulldown. I have been simply editing in 60i, which preserves the effect, but I am told it is not there yet. I am told we need to have an editor that does automatic pull down, and Premiere and Vegas don't do that yet. There are processes recommended out there that are time consuming, and I will be messing with those a bit.

2. 24p or OIS issue: The other 24p issue is knowing when not to use it. It is a fun thing to have on board, but it is also clear it can create issues. I was filming in a lush pioneer grave yard setting in a grove of trees and had a headstone in foreground. I did a slow pan to a marker in the background, but even doing that as slow as I could, the foreground marker seems to jump around a bit when I view the shot on my HDV monitor. Problem with this analysis is that I may have also had OIS on inadvertantly, so it could be the stabilization that was at issue, too, or a combination of both. More testing required here.

3. Use with Letus35a. Married with the Letus35a or the Brevis, this camera provides an inexpensive and compact platform to shoot in more film like footage. For about $2K, you can outfit a system which includes the camera, the adapter and several lenses. The results will be astounding. The simple adapter I built to flip the camera in order to avoid image flip in post works very nice. And I have gotten more used to shooting with an upside down image in viewfinder.

One question I have of people using the Letus, and perhaps the Brevis, is use of OIS. I have been using OIS, because it seems to help resolve loss of sharpness due to the vibrations from the adapters. Does any one have any thoughts there ?

Chris,
Thanks for all the info about the HV20.

I have a Sony FX1 and am seriously considering selling it. In your opinion, how does the image from the HV20 compare to the FX1, as far as detail goes? I realize there are subtle differences, but the FX1 is the only HD image I've seen from a camcorder.

I also own a Canon GL2 and I really think I prefer the image on the Canon's I've owned to the Sony's I've owned. It's just a personal preference based on how beautiful I thought the GL2's shots were. I've never owned any other 3 chip Sony besides the FX1, so I'm not putting Sony down. The FX1 does take some incredible video.

How do you feel the image on the HV20 compares to the FX1 as far as picking up details? I guess I'm asking if someone comparing images from each camera would feel like the Canon is a step down as far as image quality.

Thanks again,
- John

John:

I've been "hooked" on the HV20 lately, learning to use 24p effectively, as well as process it. We used the HV20 with a Letus adapter to shoot a 48 Hour film this weekend, set up like this:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/attachment.php?attachmentid=3534&d=1182318059

We posted a low rez version at YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s3hDShqe18

HV20 is definitely capable of a fantastic image. Control the camera is more difficult, but you can still do full manual. I've been emersed in the camera for about 3 months, and love what it can do, and the image in many situations is as good or can be better in certain situations, than FX1. But this is definitely a consumer camera. My advice is try to keep both. If you can't, then it would be a hard decision for me to give up the FX1. 24p is really the only thing the HV20 has on the FX1- something that could be rendered to in post, in some commercially available programs.

Incidentally, I shot the FX1 for about six months before I realized that when I was shooting in full manual, that the camera still automatically adds gain- unless you set it up right..... My next few shoots will be going back to the FX1 with the Letus to see what differences are...

Wow! That is a great short film and it's incredibly well shot! The shots are very tasteful and fit the scenes, too!

There are a few reasons I am probably going to sell my FX1. The main ones are money and because I think I would like to own another Canon. I really love my GL2.

Again, I have had good luck with Sony's so it's nothing against the brand. There is something, though, that I really like about Canon's picture...even on still cameras. It's probably something that someone with your background could easily identify, but I'm still learning - slowly. It seems like the Canon's have a softer image, but I'm not sure.

Also, I have a wide angle lense that I bought for the GL2. I need to investigate to see if it would fit the HV20, possibly with a step up ring.

One other thing... I took my FX1 on vacation recently and got stares everywhere I went. It was funny because it really stands out. We were at Universal Studios in Florida and even one of the guys who was about to perform as one of the "Blues Brothers" made a comment to me privately that it was a really nice camera. The video of Universal and SeaWorld turned out amazing. Some shots are like looking through a window.

Sorry to digress. It's late. :)
- John

Oh, I meant to ask one other thing if you don't mind.

I only have a few tapes that I've shot with the FX1, but would like to be able to edit them in the future. Do you know, at this point, if the HV20 will play back tapes shot from the FX1?

Thanks!
- John

My next few shoots will be going back to the FX1 with the Letus to see what differences are...

Chris,

In regards to HDV, I 'grew up' on the Z1U/FX1, thought I don't own one now I still could use one if I want/need. I do own an HV20 and have immersed myself in it as well, and have grown to trust and really like it.

I'd really like to hear what your thoughts are going back to the FX1 now after having have used the HV20 for the last 3 months! Keep us posted please.

Hi Chris and everyone, thanks for a great thread I think you have convinced me to get one of these beauties (the hv20 I mean).

Chris I was really touched by your 48hr film. I'm sure a lot of people the world over will feel their heart strings being tugged somewhat.

Best,

Steve.

John Stantley:

I've used my Sony 1.7 Teleconvertor and my Kenko .7 wide with 58 mm mounts on the HV20 with appropriate step up rings. They weren't really designed for HD, but seem to do reasonably well.

I know what you mean about the Canon image, it has a bit different emphasis, but then I think you can adjust the Sony to meet that. Canon seems to set their cameras a bit softer in sharpness and detail, giving it a different look. This will probably set off an argument, but I think there image is warmer than Sony.

As far as playing the FX1 tapes on the Canon, I haven't tried it yet, but others have indicated it works fine. I have taken the Canon tapes through the Sony.... a couple of times.

Robert Ducon:

I will keep you posted. One thing I have figured out is how to shoot the FX1 upside down with the ease I can do it with the HV20. Score 1 for the Canon on that level.


Steve Jones: Thanks for the kind words about the film. I will pass it on to all involved.

Thanks Chris.

I saw in one of the threads that the tapes play back fine between the two different cameras.

Keep us posted on your progress with the Canon. I'm going to try to find one locally so I can actually hold one. This thread has whetted my appetite for the HV20.

- John

John:

Won't impress you much just holding it.... Build isn't spectacular, and it has a bit of a rattle to it when it isn't on-- OIS unit, I think...

... it has a bit of a rattle to it when it isn't on-- OIS unit, I think...
That's exactly what it is....

John Stantley:

I know what you mean about the Canon image, it has a bit different emphasis, but then I think you can adjust the Sony to meet that. Canon seems to set their cameras a bit softer in sharpness and detail, giving it a different look.


I think that sums it up nicely.
I have a Sony HC3 - I see annoying black outlines around all objects - an image sharpening 'feature' that does not exist on my HV20.

To me the HV20 PQ is streets ahead of the Sony HC3

I think that sums it up nicely.
I have a Sony HC3 - I see annoying black outlines around all objects - an image sharpening 'feature' that does not exist on my HV20.

To me the HV20 PQ is streets ahead of the Sony HC3

The hc3 is famous for those. No black outlines with the hc1 either.

The hc3 is famous for those. No black outlines with the hc1 either.

Yes you are correct - the HC1 was a brilliant camera, too good for Sony to keep it available for the price!
I am quite annoyed with myself for not getting one when I could have.
Still, the HV20 is the next best thing and it also has a few things the HC1 does not have - optical stabiliser and HDMI :-)

Since this thread got woke up, I will comment on most recent status. I am still working with the HV20 Letus35a combo. Bolted together, the two work alright together, except that you can quite get the zoom you need to eliminate vignetting at higher FStops. So I married the two with a Cinevate achromat, that, in combo with the Letus Achromat, get you plenty of zoom capability. The results appear to be a lot better, though I had thought the extra glass would make it worse. I should try just an extension tube to see if it works.

I have gone to Cineform Neo HDV to handle pull down, and it is great. But, I have also found that shooting my FX1 a capturing with Cineform with pull down also results in an interesting 24fps file. The results look very close to the HV20 24p file... Has anybody tried this ?

I think after using this camera for half a year you learned its tricks, but just in case...
5. Exposure controls: At first, the exposure controls with joy stick were confusing, as to be expected. But I finally got it down pretty well, and assuming I want to have my shutter as priority, I have learned to set it at the speed I want it, and adjust from there with the "exposure" adjustment with the "joy stick". While the read out does not explain what is happening, I assume that by adjusting exposure in shutter priority mode you are adjusting aperature, maybe neutral density filtering, and gain.
Yep, this is exactly how it works. You can check current shutter/aperture (in real f-stops, not in relative EV steps) by pressing Photo button halfway. You will need mini-SD card inserted for this to work.

Cinemode works differently depending on 60i or 24psf.

In short, 60i + Cinemode is basically an automatic mode with Cine gamma. When you lock exposure and start adjusting it, the camera can easily change either shutter speed or aperture to its liking. There is little use of Cinemode in 60i.

24psf + Cinemode is more usable. Camera tries to stay at 1/48s and wider than f/8.0. If you need less exposure, than camera stays at f/8.0 and ramps up shutter speed up to 1/500s, after this it starts increasing aperture again. On the dark side, if the iris is fully open -- which can be anywhere from f/3.0 to f/1.8 depending on current zoom -- it starts decreasing shutter speed. It seems that after it slows down to 1/24s, it starts elevating gain.

This has been a very interesting thread for me. I currently own an XH-A1 and a GL2, but I'm seriously considering selling my GL2 and getting an HV20. For one, I need a camera whose footage is going to better match the 24f from the A1, and I would like a camera to put on the top of a Glidecam. Putting the A1 on a Glidecam seems just about impossible, unless I start doing steroids and pump up my arms to carry the thing.

I have a couple questions that haven't been addressed on the thread:

1. I have read somewhere that pulldown is 3:2:0 in 24p mode on the HV20. Is this true, and if so, how will this effect my editing (using Vegas 7.0) when I'm mixing 3:2:0 footage from the HV20 with the 4:2:0 stuff from the A1?

2. Has anyone used the HV20 on a Glidecam or similar stablizer? What's it like in 24p mode?

Cineform Applies a 3:2 pulldown the same as it does with the Sony V1Uand HV20 is specifically listed by Cineform as appropriate. I use it and it seems to do just fine.

But, I have also found that shooting my FX1 a capturing with Cineform with pull down also results in an interesting 24fps file. The results look very close to the HV20 24p file... Has anybody tried this ?

Chris, I am very curious on what that looks like. Are you shooting 60i (no Cineframe 30 or 24) and then capturing it in Cineform? Any more details you could provide would be awesome...